I know we all aspire to bullet-proof drivelines. D60's and all, but
I've been thinking for a few weeks now about this scenario.

I'm gonna have 3/4Ton axles in my scout when I'm done, and if you read my sig you can see I plan to run a CTM's and warn shafts in my D44. And I no longer aspire to get a D60 AT ALL!!

Now we all know how lance GOT-IT-AWN at cal-rocs with his D44 with CTM's (don't know if he had warn shafts though) and it held up for him.

But we all know that they're NOT indestructable either,(even though we haven't seen one break) but what about making a weak link in the driveshaft joint @ the X-fer case (not the axle) for the front only. Normally I'd be the one to say "hey then your shaft would go flying all around and bust OTHER shiat up." But not if you put a dirveshaft HOOP there to keep things under control. This would be especialy easy at the X-fer case where there is virtually no up and down travel.

I know making a weak link is silly to some people, but I'm not wanting to be down in the dirt swapping axle stub/main shafts. especially expensive warn shafts.

I'd much rather swap out driveshaft u-joints, even if it's everyother trail run. At least that way a guy could be prepared and know what to expect.

So what are your opinions guys. I know you have one OLD SCOUT ;)

You are the weakest link :flipoff2:

One word, hubs. Let the hubs be the give point. Are you running the internals from the Chevy, or Scout outers? I can tell you for a fact that if you run Pro-crap hubs they'll let go long before anything else (Huh Josh :D). I would avoid the warn hub fuses.


As far as the CTM's, you got to remember Lance's rig is a whole lot lighter then a Binder that makes a lot of difference. I know have a 3/4 Ton front, with beefy tubes, so I'll be adding alloy axles and CTM's down the road and will be sticking with it. I also don't plan to go much bigger then 36/37 x 12.5 rubbers.

Joe

Well, when your axles dont break, it willl be your R and P :( I'm not on a 60 and 70 because it was cheap ;)

Originally posted by Shadow man
Well, when your axles dont break, it willl be your R and P :(

Yeah I forgot to mention I'll be putting in a HP-D44.(that I put together) That'll add some strength there


Originally posted by Shadow man
I'm not on a 60 and 70 because it was cheap ;)


HUH?? :confused:

Originally posted by jdjanda
You are the weakest link :flipoff2: Good one :flipoff2:



Originally posted by jdjanda

One word, hubs. Let the hubs be the give point. Are you running the internals from the Chevy, or Scout outers? I can tell you for a fact that if you run Pro-crap hubs they'll let go long before anything else (Huh Josh :D). I would avoid the warn hub fuses.

But isn't it true that, if your hubs go under certain conditions it could, and has been proven to blow out, even a warn shaft???


Originally posted by jdjanda

As far as the CTM's, you got to remember Lance's rig is a whole lot lighter then a Binder that makes a lot of difference.
Joe

Yeah his rig is MUCH lighter, but isn't he running 39's or was he running the 37's then? I see your point.

I'll only be running 37's at the biggest.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
But isn't it true that, if your hubs go under certain conditions it could, and has been proven to blow out, even a warn shaft???



Actually, it can take out a Detroit..

I took out a Lockright and the axle when I smoked my most recent hub..

and the HP44 front will only be stronger going forwards.. not when you're trying to back out of something. - uphill THEN it'll be weaker. :D

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
But isn't it true that, if your hubs go under certain conditions it could, and has been proven to blow out, even a warn shaft???


Yup, tis true, when the hub unloads your going to transmit a lot of shock to the rest of the system, but when the front DL goes, what do you think that is going to take out? Maybe a yoke here, maybe the rear DL? Hard to say, but for my money I'd rather keep the damage out towards the end of the chain, rather then further up. The problem with the axle joints letting go is your risk the knuckle letting go also.

A thought, but what if you score the stubs so they are the weakest link, stubs can be had all day long at the Pic-N-Pull's. Hell I have three extra right now. Run alloy inners, and score the stubs right at the splines.


Originally posted by Cliffhanger

Yeah his rig is MUCH lighter, but isn't he running 39's or was he running the 37's then? I see your point.

I'll only be running 37's at the biggest.

I'm seriously considering running a tightened Power Loc in the front, they work well and will typically give before anything else does. I know a couple of people running them and swear by them.

Originally posted by jdjanda


I'm seriously considering running a tightened Power Loc in the front, they work well and will typically give before anything else does. I know a couple of people running them and swear by them.

So when you're trying to climb an obstacle, the PowerLok will slip before you break anything, and you'll just take the strap, right?

Maybe I should've stuck with the Mickey Thompson Baja HPs.. they spun well before putting any components in danger of being under too much stress...

I think you were right the first time, Joe.

"You ARE the weakest Link"..

You being you, me, Cliffhanger, etc.. that "loose nut behind the wheel"

"Know when to say when"

NOT knowing when has caused me a lot of damage and repairs.. :D

Tucking your d*ck back in your pants will do more to save your axle joints than a hub-fuse, or a Limited Slip, or running open... :D

Originally posted by jdjanda
You are the weakest link :flipoff2:

One word, hubs. Let the hubs be the give point. Are you running the internals from the Chevy, or Scout outers? I can tell you for a fact that if you run Pro-crap hubs they'll let go long before anything else (Huh Josh :D). I would avoid the warn hub fuses

Joe


after I first installed my 392 everytrip I blew at least one MM locking hub. the resulting shrapnel flew all over once even sticking in the side of a tree as I went 20" up over its roots.

I also have had the inside shaft let go,I belive on rebound /release of the stored energywhen the hub blew.one time it took the R&P with.

the idea of having a weak link to me is like saying I'm only gonna dry fire my compound bow once in awhile.

all said and done fixing the d44 over and over has cost more then just going 35 spline d60.

I'm not against the "weak link" idea, per se.

There will ALWAYS be a weakest link.. and a driveline U-joint isn't a bad thing to have let go.. or even a yoke or output on a transfer case..

R&P would be a bad thing - sure, you can limp out in 2wd, but it's still a b*tch to fix, and relatively (new R&P) expensive.

I surely don't want to be like a guy we had on a run with us.. full size Chevy flatbed with all the goodies.

Blown 396, SM465, NP205, D60/14-bolt, x-over steering.. 44" Boggers..

He got the truck stuck (yikes) and tried the "If a little throttle is good, a lot is better" approach.

The big truck shuddered.

Bang.

I have video.. guess I didn't MPEG it..

Anyhow.. he broke the mainshaft in the SM465. :eek: :eek:

"Bullet proof" transmission.

Try fixing THAT on the trail! How do you even LIMP HOME?

One adventerous (crazy) club member rope-towed him the out of the mountains and down the Interstate with his 351W EB... the Chevy driver could only see the CB whip of the EB.. yet they're doing 70mph...

Originally posted by jdjanda


Yup, tis true, when the hub unloads your going to transmit a lot of shock to the rest of the system, but when the front DL goes, what do you think that is going to take out? Maybe a yoke here, maybe the rear DL? Hard to say, but for my money I'd rather keep the damage out towards the end of the chain, rather then further up. The problem with the axle joints letting go is your risk the knuckle letting go also.

A thought, but what if you score the stubs so they are the weakest link, stubs can be had all day long at the Pic-N-Pull's. Hell I have three extra right now. Run alloy inners, and score the stubs right at the splines.


I've never hear of Scoring the Stub shafts, that sounds like a good idea. Got any pics, more info, how it's done?

Originally posted by tsm1mt


So when you're trying to climb an obstacle, the PowerLok will slip before you break anything, and you'll just take the strap, right?


Hey, a lot of guys swear by them, I've seen them in action and the PL will spin both tires. Both Jim @ Anything Scout and Mark (Rubicrawler) have them front and rear and swear by them. Given a choice between, open, a Trash Loc, and Power Loc, what would you take?

It's a tough choice, I don't like ARB's both price and too many moving parts. I'm learning to live with and love my locker in front, but even that has it moments. It would be nice to have something that works well to 90% then gives before something else does, and a tight PL will blow joints, hubs, etc.



Originally posted by tsm1mt

I think you were right the first time, Joe.

"You ARE the weakest Link"..


Blow me :flipoff2: You wanna wheel the sheet out of it, or always have to wonder do I need to take it easy on this obstacle?

Originally posted by Cliffhanger


I've never hear of Scoring the Stub shafts, that sounds like a good idea. Got any pics, more info, how it's done?

It came out of my arse :eek: I've never seen it done, heard of it being done. Just thought it might be an idea.

You willing to give it a try? I don't know how far you'd have to score the shaft to ensure it breaks first. Too much and it'll break too soon, too little and you'll frag something else.

Joe

Yeah but if the stubs are a dime a dozen, than it's really not all that risky.

.

Originally posted by tsm1mt

and the HP44 front will only be stronger going forwards.. not when you're trying to back out of something. - uphill THEN it'll be weaker. :D

Backwards, uphill !?!?! I've NEVER been in that situation. And I don't think I ever would, I mean, not with conditions tough enough to blow ANYTHING

Besides I like to keep going on the trail, not backing out like a wussie:flipoff2: ;)

Originally posted by Cliffhanger

Besides I like to keep going on the trail, not backing out like a wussie:flipoff2: ;)

Obviously, you don't wheel with enough Broncos or Jeeps. :D

They're always insisting on being in front, then they get stuck.. going downhill - can't climb a rock, stuck in the mud, whatever..

Sometimes the trail is too narrow to go around them there, so you have to yank 'em out backwards up hill.

If you need a tow, call a Tractor. My Binder always has to help out the lesser rigs. :D

Originally posted by jdjanda


Hey, a lot of guys swear by them, I've seen them in action and the PL will spin both tires. Both Jim @ Anything Scout and Mark (Rubicrawler) have them front and rear and swear by them. Given a choice between, open, a Trash Loc, and Power Loc, what would you take?



I have a buddy that used to swear by his PL, too.. then he went to an ARB. :D

I'd rather have Open and stuff a Lockright in.. but if that's not a choice, the Power Lok definitely. If you're stuck with a LS, it's the one to be stuck with.


a tight PL will blow joints, hubs, etc.


I know it will. I've helped change the broken axle shafts in the EB that used to run a PL. :D (it also sports a 351W and the driver has a heavy right foot)


Blow me :flipoff2: You wanna wheel the sheet out of it, or always have to wonder do I need to take it easy on this obstacle?

Why wonder? I carry spares... and the U-joints are welded to the axle shafts so they don't pop out any more.

I *do* have to be a bit careful these days.. I have a hard time driving around town w/o getting rear wheel hop with the 36s.. and I *am* babying it a bit because I don't feel like replacing a leaf spring on the trail again.. (or worse, breaking one on the street..)

I need to get to work on a traction bar..

Originally posted by tsm1mt

One adventerous (crazy) club member rope-towed him the out of the mountains and down the Interstate with his 351W EB... the Chevy driver could only see the CB whip of the EB.. yet they're doing 70mph...

Dayum!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: That's SCARY:skull: :nuke:

i ran a powr-lok in a 44 front with 35's. i added 2 .005 pinion shims for extra preload and re arranged the friction surfaces for maximum wheel torque. it worked well and would lock up both tires. if you already have a PL or are building your rig out of pick a part with $35 carriers this is a good way to go. the PL carrier is stronger than an open and i have never been able to find a 44 detroit there. no way would i drop $400 for a new one, ever.... fyi my experience driving with hubs locked in 2wd (in so cal), its much easier with a detroit up front than a than tight PL.

Originally posted by jdjanda
I don't know how far you'd have to score the shaft to ensure it breaks first. Too much and it'll break too soon, too little and you'll frag something else.Sounds like it can take a lot of stubs before you get it right.
The tire size is a mentioned factor, but the gearing is important too...

Good luck!

As for the locker being weak (and cost) d44 spools are like 150 (not mini spools either) The real deal full spool. There will be shock still and the other hub or shaft could let go still. Its a give and take. If you get huge axles and huge joints and huge hubs next its the t-case. The farther "in" the damage is the more its gonna cost. IMO

Originally posted by jdjanda

I also don't plan to go much bigger then 36/37 x 12.5 rubbers.

Joe

Bragger :eek: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by jdjanda
You are the weakest link :flipoff2:

One word, hubs. Let the hubs be the give point. Are you running the internals from the Chevy, or Scout outers? I can tell you for a fact that if you run Pro-crap hubs they'll let go long before anything else (Huh Josh :D). I would avoid the warn hub fuses.


As far as the CTM's, you got to remember Lance's rig is a whole lot lighter then a Binder that makes a lot of difference. I know have a 3/4 Ton front, with beefy tubes, so I'll be adding alloy axles and CTM's down the road and will be sticking with it. I also don't plan to go much bigger then 36/37 x 12.5 rubbers.

Joe

Umm, not hubs (as in the locking portion of the hub system). Hubs are a nuisance. If you blow one, you can end up with bolts sheared off in the body (rotor hub assembly). Even if you carry a spare hub, you probably will need a drill to take the stubs out, and an easy out, and it is easy to bung up the threads in the hub/rotor, then you get to drill and helicoil, and.... well, you get the picture. Plus, the last hub I blew torqued the stub of the axle over and jammed it so it sheared as well. I'll take blown driveline ujoints any day. Those are a pc of cake to switch. Even in the middle of a creek.... right Mark? Speaking of pictures...

This one left two bolts sheared off inside the hub.
http://www.nwbinders.net/Roundup/2000Roundup/TrailRun/IsabelleHooperBlownHub.jpg

This is all that was left on the hub.
http://www.nwbinders.net/Roundup/2000Roundup/TrailRun/IsabelleHooperBlownHubWheel.jpg