I have the SUMO 6.1 t-case gears with Yukon 4.57 ring and pinion gears in the stock axles. Although I haven't managed to break anything yet (besides driveshafts (problem now solved), hub bolts (problem now solved) and t-case mounts (still destroying them)) I figure it's only a matter of time before something even more expensive goes "ka-POW". I have a nasty habit of seeing just how far 9000rpms and these 33x14.50 Swamper SSRs can take me.

I'm curious who else is planning to get 6.1 gears, and what axles you're planning for? I'm looking hard into getting some Toyota axles. I'm also curious, how many people out there have 6.1's (from any of the vendors) or have them on order? Has anyone heard of any problems with any 6.1's so far? I haven't, but I'm curious what experiences or rumors might be out there.

I have been running around with a lot of guys with Toyotas lately. Sveral of them run upwards of 180+:1 crawl ratios with their dual cases. The only breakages I have seen are birfs (most run 36-38" tires). Zags installed some of those new super birfs and survived a couple nasty spots last weekend with no problems, he running some 38" SX's I believe. I'll be able to tell you how the Toy stuff holds up to 300:1 in a couple weeks :D

Geoff:

From what Ive seen, toy axles in a zuk are pretty much bulletproof. Az, Fatkid, Oilburner or Jason have yet to break with stock toy axles. Jason and Burner are running heavy 36s.

We popped a zuk birf with 33s down in jv and it wasnt even getting thrashed. The zuk on 33s with rings survived, so your living on the edge with those "big" 33s of yours.

In hindsight, it think the right 44s might be even cheaper than toys, and with a superior steering joint, but a litlle more work.

BTW were going back to jv in Sept., you guys need to come with us it was awesome.

Originally posted by scwafish
Geoff:

From what Ive seen, toy axles in a zuk are pretty much bulletproof. Az, Fatkid, Oilburner or Jason have yet to break with stock toy axles. Jason and Burner are running heavy 36s.

We popped a zuk birf with 33s down in jv and it wasnt even getting thrashed. The zuk on 33s with rings survived, so your living on the edge with those "big" 33s of yours.

In hindsight, it think the right 44s might be even cheaper than toys, and with a superior steering joint, but a litlle more work.

BTW were going back to jv in Sept., you guys need to come with us it was awesome.

You might be right about the 44's being alittle cheaper. My boss picked up a front D44 and rear D60 for $98 ea at a local junkyard :eek: I couldn't find a complete stock toy axle for under $250 here. Hey Scwa, my 33 x 15.50's w/ rim were 85lbs ea on the bathroom scale, heavier than the "35's" I have now. Anyone have a weight on a 36?

I've got 6 to 1's on order and I'm not really worried about breaking D44's with 35's. you should definately upgrade from stock, not only for the strength but also the width it makes a ton of difference. You might want to think about shaving a set of D44's before you put them in. I have it figured so that I'll have more clearance than a yota axle when I get off my @ss and actually do it.

Originally posted by scwafish
Geoff:

From what Ive seen, toy axles in a zuk are pretty much bulletproof. Az, Fatkid, Oilburner or Jason have yet to break with stock toy axles. Jason and Burner are running heavy 36s.


You got a little bad 'intel' here. I Did shatter a stock Birfield when I was running 35" BFG's.
Another Zuk w/ Toy axles (v-6 engine) routinely breaks them.
So they are far from indestructable.

If you can score a set of Toy axles for a reasonable price, and go with the new SuperBirf's, IMHO you will be better off than with Dana's. Of Course that's DEBATABLE....:D

I think they are pretty much bulletproof behind a 4 cyl, I have over 30 trailrides on mine since Nov and they are holding up fine. After seeing 2 D44's break in that same time period I'd rather have the birfields. When the u-joint went on the D44's it hosed the knuckles and popped the balljoint out on one of them. Never seen anyone carry a spare knuckle, luckily we had a welder along and were able to weld the ball joint and limp back to the trailers. Every birf I have seen break (on Toyotas) was fixed within a half hour and the truck finished the day. What kind of motor were you running Tim? Was that your diesel?

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler
[BWhat kind of motor were you running Tim? Was that your diesel? [/B]

Yup - diesel. But that was not the reason I popped the Birf. I was Backing down an obstacle to try another line, when I rolled a Big rock up into my right front fender well. It put the axle in a bind, and Ker-Snap. If I'd had a spotter, that probably could have been avoided.

I only mentioned it because the conversation seemed to be heading in the "Toyota axles are unbreakable under a Samurai" direction, and the original guy asking about axles said something about "9-grand launches on 33's...":rolleyes:

AZ,
Did I miss something or were you dropping a big fat hint when you said
I'll be able to tell you how the Toy stuff holds up to 300:1 in a couple weeks

'splain or spill it!!!!! :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler
After seeing 2 D44's break in that same time period I'd rather have the birfields.I think that is something that is usually overlooked about the Toy vs. D44 battle. Toy axles (stock, not Longfield fortified) may not be as strong as a D44, but they're a hell of a lot easier to work on (assuming you leave the C-clips off).

Most importantly, there's no fawking ball joints. I hate ball joints.

Usually a stock birf takes it's self out. Since it's part of the stub shaft, thatgets replaced by default. Occasionally it takes out the inner shaft with it.

Now that I'll be wheeling with Longfields, my main worry is the inner front axle shafts - seems to be the new weak spot with the longfields. I haven't been able to find a spare set of them yet, either. I guess I'll just three-wheel it off the trail if I break. :(

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER


Yup - diesel. But that was not the reason I popped the Birf. I was Backing down an obstacle to try another line, when I rolled a Big rock up into my right front fender well. It put the axle in a bind, and Ker-Snap. If I'd had a spotter, that probably could have been avoided.

I only mentioned it because the conversation seemed to be heading in the "Toyota axles are unbreakable under a Samurai" direction, and the original guy asking about axles said something about "9-grand launches on 33's...":rolleyes:

Lol, you gotta take a little of what Geoff says with a grain of salt. Nothing is unbreakable, I have no doubt if you bind a D44 or a Toy axle up it may give. The guy in the schol bus :D um, err Jeep thing last weekend was actually poking fun at Jack for carrying spares axles, he seemd to thing D60's don't break :rolleyes: Armageddon claimed a 35 spline D60 last time thru.

Originally posted by dumb
AZ,
Did I miss something or were you dropping a big fat hint when you said


'splain or spill it!!!!! :flipoff2:

Oops, did I say that? :D :D :D The wife gave me the ok to order a Klune in April, so it looks like I'll be keeping her for another year :D Been calling around, the price on the Klune box is only around $1600, but for the Zuk you need another $700 in adaptors. Best price I have found so far was $2438. I am trading my GRS II for a I plus some cash, I figured that gives me a lot of interesting gear ratios to play with:

1st - 321:1
2nd - 171:1
3rd - 125:1
4th - 88:1
5th - 69:1

That brings new definition to 5th gear motor sports!

You know what's funny, is that most guys (even though they probably claim they've got more gearing) don't even have 69:1 in their zuks.

Keep us posted to see how things go. BTW a klune can be had for cheaper than that. Get a NP 241 take it to a competent machinist, get him to make a case and shifter linkage /case and you are done (now I'll duck and cover 'cause of the "it's more than that" crowd). I'd give you a link to Klunin it yourself but BC4x4 seems to be unavailable right now. Rob Bryce posted an article on the one he made (the cover blazer on mog axles is his).

I'd keep her around too. I'm in the same boat as long as I take into consideration her needs in an offroad rig. IE hotwater shower, street driveability, pneumatic blender etc...
later

Dave

Originally posted by dumb

Keep us posted to see how things go. BTW a klune can be had for cheaper than that. Get a NP 241 take it to a competent machinist, get him to make a case and shifter linkage /case and you are done (now I'll duck and cover 'cause of the "it's more than that" crowd). I'd give you a link to Klunin it yourself but BC4x4 seems to be unavailable right now. Rob Bryce posted an article on the one he made (the cover blazer on mog axles is his).


Is this the link?

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/tcase/tcase.cfm

I'll be looking for a klune in late april/May too..

I'm buying a set of Toy axles already built (5.29's, detroit, arb, and Warn Birfield eliminator kit on it). So I'll get to see how they hold up..

I want a KLUNEV!!!!!! I recently went to bobby long's and got a set of his birfs for my toys, cause ain't nothin unbreakable!

Originally posted by dumb
That brings new definition to 5th gear motor sports!

You know what's funny, is that most guys (even though they probably claim they've got more gearing) don't even have 69:1 in their zuks.

Keep us posted to see how things go. BTW a klune can be had for cheaper than that. Get a NP 241 take it to a competent machinist, get him to make a case and shifter linkage /case and you are done (now I'll duck and cover 'cause of the "it's more than that" crowd). I'd give you a link to Klunin it yourself but BC4x4 seems to be unavailable right now. Rob Bryce posted an article on the one he made (the cover blazer on mog axles is his).

I'd keep her around too. I'm in the same boat as long as I take into consideration her needs in an offroad rig. IE hotwater shower, street driveability, pneumatic blender etc...
later

Dave

Thanks for the link. I have thought about other gearing options but since I don't want to do a motor swap to a 22r or 1.6 I really don't see a cheaper and faster way to get the gearing I want (time is money too, most people just don't account for that).

Plus I don't want a 100" wheelbase :D Dayum, that setup is about as long as my Zuk!

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/bryce/tcase/tcase-9_.jpg

Rob's is not a Klune! Yes it works but it s only a 2:1 (for a np203) and 2.6:1?? for the NP241

A Klune has 4:1 in the reduction box and is alot easier to adapt to a Samurai drivetrain.

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler
I think they are pretty much bulletproof behind a 4 cyl, I have over 30 trailrides on mine since Nov and they are holding up fine.

Guys, I would not have believed it 'till I saw it. They had guys running dual case toys with 38's on stock berfs, and that's not easy stuff that they run. But, it's totally unheard of around here...

All I can think of is how many berfs Jayson blew up last year. I did a lot of spotting for him, and if I ever saw a front get in a bind I was yelling stop. If he even tried to push it, there was a garanteed pop.....

You might be right about the 44's being alittle cheaper. My boss picked up a front D44 and rear D60 for $98 ea at a local junkyard

They have waggy 44s at our local pnp all of the time $100, pretty cheap.

You got a little bad 'intel' here. I Did shatter a stock Birfield when I was running 35" BFG's.

I guess I did never heard any birf talk before...However, two dead birfs in a combined total of a jillion wheeling trips. Geez. I spaced that you were running a deisel, but notice both rigs that broke em were using bigger, beefier, and heavier motors.

So let me restate...in a zuk powered zuk, toys seem pretty much bulletproof.:D