Jack from CTM had a brand new banner made before this weekend, Cost over $200.00, It is now missing. It was removed from the course on sunday sometime during the late afternoon, while the competition was still taking place. Jack nor I are wealthy, and we can't absorb the lose of such items. If anyone knows who has the banner (blue in color) please get it back for Jack and mail it to me at:

CalROCS
920 Hillcrest st.
Placerville, Ca. 95667

I'll be happy to cover postage.

Thanks
Rich Klein
CalROCS

Jeez. People will take anything. I guess someone would want it for their garage or something... You're right, that's alot of $$$ to lose. Hope you get it back :)

That sucks...........
What a poser:mad:

I wasn't there and I didn't snag it but at every event the banners were pretty much taken, seems to me a vendor should go maybe a tad cheaper on the banner so they ARE give aways..

When I helped with the clean up before we were given donated raffle prizes and many people even gave banners for us to put up, when asked if they wanted em back they didn't.

Personally I think it is kinda pathetic for the vendor to whine about getting it back but oh well...

:rolleyes:

Here is what the banner looks like...

well you gotta expect that 'cuz thats one sweat looking banner. btw - I'm not say'n its right whoever took it so cough it up ya theivin' snapperhead.

Originally posted by Brandon

Personally I think it is kinda pathetic for the vendor to whine about getting it back but oh well...

:rolleyes:

Yeah, but would you want to shell out $200 for a new banner for every event you attend? It might not phase some of the monster corporations, but for someone with a smaller, new business, it would suck, and add up quickly.

Well…………..event banners might not be Sovinours but ya gotta face the facts…………. sooner or later all media is either gonna either end up in the trash or in someones garage…. If I was a vendor I would much rather have my banners hanging in a shop rather than in a landfill……especially if I could sell ONE of my 60 u joints for about the price it costs to make TWO banners……

But It looks pretty obvious to me…….. from the pic above it looks like the FATKID was the last one seen around the banner, somebody check that bender shop for a CTM baner… hehehe

Originally posted by Welby


Yeah, but would you want to shell out $200 for a new banner for every event you attend? It might not phase some of the monster corporations, but for someone with a smaller, new business, it would suck, and add up quickly.

hell yea, it is called advertising. Lance's writeup got me interested in CTM, this post is making me look elsewhere.

Originally posted by FLASHLIGHTMAN
If I was a vendor I would much rather have my banners hanging in a shop rather than in a landfill……especially if I could sell ONE of my 60 u joints for about the price it costs to make TWO banners……



That would work really really well if there were to be 200.00 profit in that sale. Or, did you forget that overhead comes from the profit side of things?

I can see everyone's point here but the thing you have to remember is this was taken before the event was even over! Even if it was a throw away the vendor hadn't even gotten full use of it before it was taken.
To me this would be like going into the infield at the Indy 500 and snagging the giant inflatable tire while the race was still going on. Kind of an exagerated comparison but still the same idea.

I could understand someone taking if it was left up well after the event was over and the cleanup crew were out but during the event? Come on folks!

Yeah, fatkid probably had it riding shotgun during the dash for cash, which explains his good run.......... On a serious note, the banners are expensive, it was a damn cool banner, but I'm not suprised that it was taken. I'd love to have that one in my shop!

Originally posted by Brandon


Lance's writeup got me interested in CTM, this post is making me look elsewhere.

Where else is there to look? :D

The guy setting above the banner on the rock looks suspicous:D :eek: :D

This seems to be a common problem. We had a Ford banner taken last year from our competition, took quite a while to finally track it down. Those things aren't cheap.:mad3:

Banners in all other motorsports are consider fair game for spectators - I guess someone thought it was the same here.

Might I suggest for the next one, he either watches it the whole time, or else puts a note in the back that whoever does take it can return it for a prize/discount/gift of some kind...

I can fully see how Jack would be bummed as he's not a huge operation. I'm sure it costs Jack a fair bit of dough to attend these events, maybe not so much in travel costs, but lost shop time. When you're a small business that time loss adds up real fast, and an additional $200 loss is unfortunate:(

I'm just as guilty as the next guy as a banner thief, my garage walls are full from my MX days, but they are all from the HUGE companies. It's still theft, but it's not as bad as rippin the little guys ;) (Insert stern lecture from DRM on morals, bla bla bla, here)

Originally posted by DRM
Banners in all other motorsports are consider fair game for spectators - I guess someone thought it was the same here.

Might I suggest for the next one, he either watches it the whole time, or else puts a note in the back that whoever does take it can return it for a prize/discount/gift of some kind...

The incentive thing is a good idea but once a few people find out they will get CTM discounts if they steal the banners it'll be chaos.

-Steve

You guys have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

"FAIR GAME"!?!?!

"CONSIDERING LOOKING ELSEWHERE"!?!?!?!

WTF!!!!!

Dude I can't make a banner quite that good, but If you want a replacement banner I'll Absorb the cost!! PM ME:usa:

FUCKIN THEIVES!!!!!:mad2:

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
You guys have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

"FAIR GAME"!?!?!


Yes, go to a NASCAR event and see what happens to hoods, tires, banners, shirts, rags, or anything else spectators or collectors can get their hands on.

No, I am not saying it is right to do it - but I am saying when most other motorsports accept this as common practice, you had better make it clear up front that this motorsport is NOT like that.

That is all I am saying.

I guess I didn't know that...

This used to happen to us all the time back in my rodeo days. Sponsors pay lots of money to be able to put up a sign in an arena. On top of that, they pay lots of money to have those signs made. $200 is a pretty cheap sign. To have an original made costs up to $1200 around here. To have a copy done goes $300-500 depending on colors, UV resistant coatings, etc... When a vendor has to shell out that much money just to advertise, they tend to tighten up in the sponsorship department. That means less dollars to put on events that ALL of us attend, compete in, and enjoy.

If you see a sign that you want hanging in your shop, ask. Most vendors I have delt with usually have a few signs they don't mind parting with. It might not be that specific sign, but you get something, and if you are just after a souvenier, what does it matter what sign you get? Someone taking this sign just to say they have something from that comp is pretty pethetic.

I'll be telling my friends to call CTM first. He can't be expected to just take it in the ass on this one. In a few years when Jack is making damn good money and is widely known in the industry, maybe my outlook will change. But, for now, just starting out, he needs to hold on to all the dollars he can to stay in business.

Originally posted by Brandon


Lance's writeup got me interested in CTM, this post is making me look elsewhere.


What about this thread is leaving a bad taste in your mouth about CTM?

:confused:

FYRMAN, you summed up exactly what I was trying to say;)

My question is why. Why take a banner. What good does a banner do anybody except the company advertising on it. And even worse is that the guy that took it probably doesn't even have CTM joints. I like banners just as much as anybody else but come awn. I used to ask for ones after ski races and sometimes I would luck out and get one but now I have a box full of banners that nobodey gets to see and honestly I felt stupid even puting them up cause then everybody asks me how I like the banners advertised product then I have to look like a dumb ass and say "Umm I'm to cheap and ski on 25 year old skis and in thrift store ski jackets" You guys that have nice shops and actually can afford this stuff should be proud to display these banners if you so chose to get one made up but my guess is that the guy that took it just thought it looked cool.

What a Wanker :mad3: :flipoff: :flipoff:

Ok I have banners from last years JV event, does this mean Im a Dirty Rat Bastard? It was pretty trashed, it had been used as A traction device by more that one competitor.:D but if Currie wants it back, Email me:rolleyes: I do agree in this instance, he's the little guy, and Advertising is Expensive, especially if its stolen after only 1/2 of its display time.

IF YOU OR SOMEONE YOU KNOW HAS IT PLEASE RETURN IT;)

the fact is that if someone owns something and they don't want it to be taken than that is theft. There is no excuse for people taking things that don't belong to them. Just because people have been doing it for years does not justify it. It is :rainbow: . In my opinion it's as bad or worse as someone stealing a stereo or something out of your truck...hell at least they have a use for the stereo. For someone to take a useful advertising tool just cuz it will look cool in their garage is rediculous. Those of you trying to justify it should be ashamed.

-Steve

Originally posted by offroadr35
the fact is that if someone owns something and they don't want it to be taken than that is theft. There is no excuse for people taking things that don't belong to them. Just because people have been doing it for years does not justify it. It is :rainbow: . In my opinion it's as bad or worse as someone stealing a stereo or something out of your truck...hell at least they have a use for the stereo. For someone to take a useful advertising tool just cuz it will look cool in their garage is rediculous. Those of you trying to justify it should be ashamed.

-Steve


I agree!

Originally posted by offroadr35
the fact is that if someone owns something and they don't want it to be taken than that is theft. There is no excuse for people taking things that don't belong to them. Just because people have been doing it for years does not justify it. It is :rainbow: . In my opinion it's as bad or worse as someone stealing a stereo or something out of your truck...hell at least they have a use for the stereo. For someone to take a useful advertising tool just cuz it will look cool in their garage is rediculous. Those of you trying to justify it should be ashamed.

-Steve

I think you must me :smokin: because I haven't seen anyone here justyfying or condoning anything.

I myself have just tried to enlighten some of you as to WHY people would take it, that doesn't in any way mean I agree with the theft of someone's property.

But the point is when most motorsports allow people to take their signs without problems, you have to make sure your spectators know you do not follow the commonly accepted practice..

Because by default - they are going to assume you are just like all the rest of the event out there, whether you are or not.

It happens all the time, but that doesn't make it right....

Somebody horked one of my fluorescent green 4x4Wire.com banners at the Amador CalROCS in November... right from in front of my campsite.

BTW, there's a $20 reward for the thing, no questions asked... but I'll pay $50 if you get me incriminating photos of it hanging in someone's garage, so that I can humilate the scumbag that snatched it...

Banners aren't cheap. :(

Randii

If a banner is torn up, "been used as a traction device", worn, or just plain served it's useful purpose, by all means, feel free to ask the owner of the banner if they want it back. 9 times out of 10 the rightful owner of the banner doesn't even know that it is in that condition. At least if you bring it to their attention, they can know what happened to that big lump of money they spent having it made.

sorry to hear about the loss, but y'all got screwed on the banner price:eek: There are much cheaper places to get 'em than from whoever screwed you. My shop walls are covered with banners I bought (tread lightly, currie, etc.) and none where even half what your sayin yours cost. i used to have a Jeep shop and the first signs I put up where the banner type, they didn't last the first night we were closed...it's just the cost of doing buss.

This was a nice heavy duty banner, with good graphics. I can see close to $200.
The banner fell down during the competition and I went up there and rehung the thing. That was right before the majority of the unlimiteds ran course #1. So it was there until towards the end of the day on Sunday. If I was to venture a guess I'd say one of the spectators grabbed it on their way out.
Me and my buddies used to make a big game out of this every year at Hangtown Motocross. As soon as the last Moto was over we'd jump the fence and start grabbin banners. Usually Fox and Thor and ones like that. We were young and there were literally hundreds of these banners. Needless to say I don't do this anymore.
We've got to support the little guys willing to kick in and help out these kind of events by supporting there products and leaving there advertising alone so they can re-use it and hopefully pass the savings from advertising costs along to the consumers in the form of cheaper product prices.

Originally posted by BIGSTIC
What good does a banner do anybody except the company advertising on it

Exactly, this person is doing CTM a favor by hanging it up and giving them FREE advertising :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Brandon


Exactly, this person is doing CTM a favor by hanging it up and giving them FREE advertising :flipoff2:

True, although the target audience is far more limited than if the banner will still in CTM's possession to use at future events :p

Originally posted by DRM


True, although the target audience is far more limited than if the banner will still in CTM's possession to use at future events :p
unless the thief has a whole lot of wheelin' friends:D

Its all good, I just like to play devils advocate..

Im surprised that the all-pro and interco ones did not get snagged
also. still sucks though cuz Jack is a hella nice guy

I don't care what a banner costs or what the persons garage looks like with it hanging in there, everytime a banner comes upmissing it cost someone money to replace......I'mmissing banners from the put up or shut up and now from this event. Maybe the price of goods goes up and maybe the price for admission goes up.....but I guess we can flip crap about my attitude, so go ahead. I feel its wrong to take without asking. Jack had just had that banner made that week, he is a small business that makes a great product and can not afford to lose $200.00 at any time........:mad: :mad:
Rich

that sucks, but i'm gonna have to agree with alot of the people here, i'm not saying its ok, but it is generaly accepted at motocross events, just about all of my friend's shops have Fox or Wiesco banners hanging on the ceilling.
if i was even there, i wouldnt have a problem taking it.
on the other hand, if i had known that jack wanted it back, then i would have respected it.
also, before this thread, i had no clue that banners were so expensive. :eek:

We used to try and save the banners at HANGTOWN but it turned into a lost cause, now we just walk away as they are tearing them down on their way out from watching the races.

just curious are you saying ctm
was a oficial sponcer of this event ??

Originally posted by xextr3m3
Im surprised that the all-pro and interco ones did not get snagged
also. still sucks though cuz Jack is a hella nice guy

The All Pro Banners cost $130 each and were smaller than the CTM ones. We also provided the artwork. So I think the $200 price for the CTM banner is right on.


As for our banners I was keeping a close eye on both of them!

I see a lot of talk here but no action, I don't know Jack but I am familiar with his joints, I plan on getting new axles and putting CTMss in over the next 6 to 9 months, and I am a big fan and supporter of the little guy vs. the big corporate A-holes who really don't mfg. anything just warehouse and ship.
Like I said I see a lot of talk but no action, I'm willing to put up $20.00 bones toward a new banner for him all we need is 9 more of you talkers to put up and Jacks problem is solved.
And now we are aware of the rules of banner snagging at wheeling events we can keep an eye on who ever is taking one down and act accordingly.
Not a permanent solution to the problem but it will help out a nice guy and a small business owner.

Yes, Jack and Christine, from CTM, were official sponsors of this event and hopefully the rest of the season. Yes they are great people and as with us here at CalROCS we are all learning about doing these type of events. But hand made banners are different from the mass produced banners that a company like bud, or fox or many others have. I freak everytime I order more banners, I guess someday I'll be able to order they by the hundreds (yeah right) and won't care about them anymore.
Rich

My god, rich asks for help getting a banner back, and it turns into a bitch fest and has destroyed this thread, tisk tisk..

Sorry rich, i wasn't there, but i will ask the gang once they get home(tonight i think) and see if they know anything..

hey it aint that bad all the publisity he is getting on this thread has got to count for somethin...


next time try haveing a sticker manufacturer
make up custom stickers and use them to put
on your baner

ther are a lot of small companys makeing stickers
you pay set up 1 time then the stickers are pritty cheeep .
and yes you can get 24 inch high stickers.

if you cant find some one to make up the
stickers let me know ther is a guy
who has a trailer set up on the street corner
near my house.

You people are friggin nuts!

If you think I am happy anytime anything disappears from my Brewery/Brewpub. I don't want my banner/mug/glass/plate fucking bottle of mustard at your house, I want it were ALOT of people can see it.

And to all of you who think a banner like that is cheap, you don't know jack shit, ask how much it costs to have that logo cut, ask how much the rest of lettering is, ask how much the labor is, ask how much the banner material is. I know. I have got 20 banner just that size and they cost $250 a piece (Mine are 4 color).

Jack is asking for it back, I think that is very reasonable request.

You all are taking the riot mentality, "everyone is doing it"

GIVE IT BACK!:mad3:

Yeah, kinda like when some a$$hole ripped off our 4x4wire banner from our CAMP site at CalROCs Lake Amador last year... Fair Game? yeah, like walking into someones camp and stealing something is fair game? Not!

It sucks that someone took it since you wanted it.... but honestly it's sort of a thing expected when you hang them up. I have yet to go to a rodeo or help out with one where the banners weren't all taken. Same goes with going to Sears Point. After every race, and this is from Nascar to watching Indy racers... people take the banners. I think it's assumed it's cool and ok. Heck after the State Fair there's all kinds of banners everywhere. In the extreme thing they had I got a banner from that on the last night for Santa Cruz Skateboards. The guy was like yeah you can have it... most companies don't care. It's free advertising for them. Granted they are bigger and can absorb that cost. Anyhow I hope whoever took it returns it since you did want it and can't afford to lose them at this point and time. I'm sure it was probably taken with the asumption it was just the norm.... hopefully the person will become aware and fix it... :)

PS Do a search on eBay to see if it turns up on there. It might be possible.....

Originally posted by KeithF
I'm not say'n its right whoever took it so cough it up ya theivin' snapperhead.


None of us were even there!


:flipoff2:



As for the "banner snatching". It is common place at any event. I'm not saying its right or wrong. Frankly It doesn't matter. My suggestion is to have the Judge for each obsticle pull down the banners on his/her course as soon as the last vehicle is finished. Problem solved.


:usa:

Shoot, for $200 bucks we can paint up my 40 to look like that banner and you can use it as a billboard.:D That sucks that someone ran off with it, stealing is stealing.;)

Originally posted by mountain bronco
You people are friggin nuts!
You all are taking the riot mentality, "everyone is doing it"

GIVE IT BACK!:mad3:

Would you mind showing me exactly who in this thread was condoning taking or keeping the banner?

Come on people - read what we are writing! :rolleyes:


Of course Jack deserves his banner back! I am pretty sure there is not a SINGLE person who has posted here who would want any other resolution to this...

Originally posted by tonto
I see a lot of talk but no action, I'm willing to put up $20.00 bones toward a new banner for him all we need is 9 more of you talkers to put up and Jacks problem is solved.


You want US to pay for someones business expence:eek: If Jack can't afford the loss, then Jack needs to not buy anymore banners...Does Jack know your on here on the POR BB corner with your cardboard sign asking for a 'donation'? Freakin unbeliveable!:rolleyes:

Hate to agree with Cutter (:flipoff2: ), but this shouldn't be a donation fest, and I doubt if they want it to be one. Every little thing cannot and shouldn't be turned into a "cause"... Shitty as it is, CTM should just chalk it up as people are "souvenier hunting" thieves and if they have to, factor in more of the advertising costs into the joints. Add $5 to the cost of each joint. It's not enough to stop people from buying them, but with enough joints sold, would cover the inevitable losses on the banners.
That or keep an eye on them constantly, which is far from practical.

Originally posted by Cutter


You want US to pay for someones business expence:eek: If Jack can't afford the loss, then Jack needs to not buy anymore banners...Does Jack know your on here on the POR BB corner with your cardboard sign asking for a 'donation'? Freakin unbeliveable!:rolleyes:

HAHA, no I don't even know Jack so unless someone went a tattle tailed on me I don't think he even knows about my cardboard sign.
Sorry for being a fawkin newbie, but I would rather find a solution to the problem at hand than sit around a sewing circle and piss & moan, but than again if no one sat around pissing & moaning we wouldn’t have so many threads.
Realistically unless the person who stole it is a compassionate freak and feels bad after reading all these post, I put my $$$ on the cops finding a kids stolen bike before that banner is returned.
After all the longer this thread goes the more attention the banner theft gets the more of a trophy it is to have.
And I don't think challenging the talkers to put there $$ together is any different than suggesting a pay pal fund to help pay the deductible on theft insurance after a shop was broken into and ripped off.
But than again I'm just:flipoff2: a fawkin newbie:flipoff2: so what the hell do I know.
Thanx for you time, c'ya.