Who Has Broken a Super 35 Axle Installer on THEIR OWN JEEP???? [Archive]

Daless2

03-15-2002, 04:08 AM

Good Morning folks, and thank you all for your replies.

I take it the answer to my question "Who has broken a Super 35 Axle installed on their own Jeep?" is

NO ONE who has read this forum question.

I am a bit surprised by the response.

I thought for sure someone here would have broken one given the hardcore nature of the Jeeping done by most on this board.

Perhaps, as was pointed out, not many of the folks on this forum have Super 35 axles and that is the reason why. Did you all build your Jeep's with D-60's from day one?

I thought I would ask, anyway.

As I have said, to date I have identified just "TWO" problems with the Super 35 axles.

One was a broken Axle during of all things a Rock Crawling competition. This TJ was running Super 35's Detroit, 37 inch tires and an Atlas 4.3, 4.88 gears.

The second problem was with a bent Super 35 Axle after an airborne event.

I realize there are many opinions on this set-up, and that's good, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

What I am trying to do is collect a "Finding of Facts" concerning these axles.

There appears to be an incredible anomaly between free opinions and what appears to be fact. I think I need to do some more digging on this. Thus I asked the question.

I feel the best way to do this is not to ask the manufacturer, but ask Jeeper's who actually have broken a Super 35 Axle. This is proving to be difficult task.

Recurve, thanks for the email ID. I will send an email out to this contact. I appreciate the lead.

If anyone has an interest in knowing the axle tube sizes for the TJ D-35 and TJ D-44, as they come from the factory, they are indeed the same size. Outside diameter is 2.625 In., wall thickness is 0.250 in.

Here is a table of TJ Axles that where actually measured.

http://home.att.net/~email.id/Dana.jpg

Please note; I have no knowledge or measurements on axles tubes other then those that come from the factory on the TJ. I do understand that earlier model D-44's had larger outside diameter tubes, but I have no measurements to validate this.

It is my understanding that 5,600 Super 35 Kits have been sold. That makes for 11,200 potential axles that can break.

If these numbers are indeed accurate, and only 2 have broken, then some simple math indicates this really isn't such a bad set-up at all.

I do not believe only 2 have broken, but only two people have stepped up to say they have broken them. That is why I am asking the question.

I want to get beyond opinion and to the facts. Either you have broken one or you haven't. (Life is simple!)

Once again, if you would bare with me, I will ask the question.

Who has broken a Super 35 Installed on Their OWN JEEP?

Thanks in advance,

Oxjockey

03-15-2002, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by NE-RokToy

You can't deny dana 35 brakes are tiny

I thought the D35c and the D44s shared the same brakes from the factory? (In the TJs, obviously)

Bryan

Recurve

03-15-2002, 04:25 AM

Sorry to erode your thread Frank but I gotta say this. No sensible person will say that the Super 35 axle is the weak point. The contention is with the other parts of the axle. In your investigation, did you happen to hear from anyone that had creamed a ring and pinion or spun a tube?
Thanks

Daless2

03-15-2002, 04:47 AM

Hi Recurve,

No problem at all. Discussion is good. Shared knowledge makes it better for everyone.

In actuality I have not been able to find a single Jeeper who has had a problem of any kind with a D-35 when the Super 35 Kit was installed with either the Detroit Locker or the Ox Locker. (Other then the two I have already shared.)

However, I am aware, and have spoken with 5 Jeeper's who had some major carnage in their D-35's with the original Lock-Rite used in the first Super 35 kits.

I myself dodge a bullet with the Detroit when several Ring Gear Bolts backed out on me. I attributed this to the owner (ME) having a blonde day when I re-torqued the ring gear bolts breaking the Loc-tite seal on the ring bolts.

I have spoken to the folks who make these axles and those who sell the kits.

To date, according to them, since the Detroit or Ox Locker, 5 axles have come back for warrantee claim, and 3 Detroit Lockers. I have no count on the Ox Locker.

I have no reason to doubt these numbers, but would much rather hear from Jeeper's themselves as to what problems they have had with this set up, and what they were doing when the problems occurred.

Logic tell me there has to have been more problems, yet I don't seem to be able to find anyone else who can share their personal, first hand, on their own Jeep, experiences.

Lots and lots of opinions, but no first hand accounts.

Thus I asked the question here to broaden the scope of the Jeeper Universe I am asking.

Have a great day, I plan too,

03-15-2002, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Daless2
Good Morning folks, and thank you all for your replies.

I take it the answer to my question "Who has broken a Super 35 Axle installed on their own Jeep?" is

NO ONE who has read this forum question.

I am a bit surprised by the response.

Why?

I thought for sure someone here would have broken one given the hardcore nature of the Jeeping done by most on this board.

Perhaps, as was pointed out, not many of the folks on this forum have Super 35 axles and that is the reason why. Did you all build your Jeep's with D-60's from day one?

Well, we generally wheel what we've got, then when it breaks, throw in a 44 - skipping the Polish A Turd setp

I thought I would ask, anyway.

As I have said, to date I have identified just "TWO" problems with the Super 35 axles.

One was a broken Axle during of all things a Rock Crawling competition. This TJ was running Super 35's Detroit, 37 inch tires and an Atlas 4.3, 4.88 gears.

The second problem was with a bent Super 35 Axle after an airborne event.

Competitions and jumping can break anything. Stupid is as stupid does.

I realize there are many opinions on this set-up, and that's good, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Thanks in advance,

You're welcome.

1TONTJ

03-15-2002, 06:36 AM

Anyone know the diamter and wall of the XJ D44 rear? Or the Ford 8.8.

Just curious. Good info in this thread.

Thanks,
Phil

rockedtj

03-15-2002, 07:05 AM

Ok, I'll admit I spent the money on the turd polish:emb: I have had no problems with the axles, locker, or R&P, and I run 35's behind an automatic. I just bought what I could afford at the time, and still wheeled everywhere I wanted. But it is on the garage floor now, being replaced :D

1TONTJ

03-15-2002, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by rockedtj
Ok, I'll admit I spent the money on the turd polish:emb: I have had no problems with the axles, locker, or R&P, and I run 35's behind an automatic. I just bought what I could afford at the time, and still wheeled everywhere I wanted. But it is on the garage floor now, being replaced :D

You should sell it to Frank ;)

Phil

landusepbb

03-15-2002, 07:30 AM

This thread is kinda funny, there's a real simple answer to the original question. Most folks that plan on doing more than simple trail riding with their 35 equipped Jeep dont' bother with "upgrading" to a super 35, they just start out with replacing the 35 altogether. And thats why you don't meet many folks that have broken one, those that wheel where you take a chance of breaking one aren't using them! I do believe thats your answer.

kidwired

03-15-2002, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by 66CJdean
one correction is that not all 60 rears are .313 there are lots of .375 ones out there and thay don't sell 60 trusses for the daily drivers like they target with the 35's.

I stand corrected, thanks Dean. but that still doesnt change the 35 #'s.

please give me 1 instance where u have seen a truss ad/mktg mat'l targeted to a DD.

matter of fact I see more truss' on full sz pavement pounders than on anything now that I think about it.

I'm not trying to say the 35 is a GOOD axle, or that its the same or better than a 44. I'ts not.
I say its just not as bad as most people would lead u to believe. Most people swap it out cus they have heard it is weak, I think its great when someon stops to think for themselves, ask the questions and make their own decisions not just going along w/ the status qou.

of the 2 failures i have seen Keith strong bent his tube all up and ryan twisted his.

kidwired

03-15-2002, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by landuseorc
Most folks that plan on doing more than simple trail riding with their 35 equipped Jeep dont' bother with "upgrading" to a super 35, they just start out with replacing the 35 altogether. And thats why you don't meet many folks that have broken one, those that wheel where you take a chance of breaking one aren't using them! I do believe thats your answer.

I believe that would make an inte4restring poll for the gen4x area.

What rear axle do you have?
20
35
44
9
8.8
60
toy

etc.

aaronlosey

03-15-2002, 09:27 AM

well, the secret is, you don't break the shafts. those are pretty damn tough. you break everything else. with the superior kit, go to raingler.com and talk to eddie, he toasted the "super" lockrite in his tj, and now hes killing the detroit. next the pinion will probably go. i doubt many of the original lockrite kits are even still out there, they had alot of problems.

anyways, my point is your not going to find anyone breaking shafts because other things are breaking first.

A 4 liter V8 eater

03-15-2002, 09:29 AM

You guy's don't seem to understand. I might not drive a rock buggy, but I do wheel some sick shit. I am throttle down. I've never bust an R&P or axle shaft. Also you are just plain ignorant if you don't realize that the super 35 axle shafts are stronger than stock dana 44 shafts. I never heard of a tube bending or spinning on a TJ, just on leaf spring jeeps. Big ring and pinion are great for drag racing but for wheeling my D35 ring and pinion is just fine. As for ABS, lets have a contest to see who can stop faster in rain or snow and still maintain control of the vehicle. As for my friends rock garden, it has claimed 6 axle shafts, three front drive shafts, three exhausts, one trannie mount and one motor mount. As for my screen name saying I'm a newbie, that implies to computers, not to wheeling. I know I was a little cocky with my first post but I was drunk then. I'm sober now.

cbassett

03-15-2002, 09:32 AM

Then start that poll Kid! :D

As has been mentioned multiple times on this thread, the shafts aren't the only weak link of the D35. Once you regear, the R&P become the weak link.
After 2 shafts, 2 sets of R&P gears, and a detroit, in about a season and a half, I called it quits on the D35.

My ZJ is a tad heavier than some of the pro-35 posters' YJs. This could be a contributor to the carnage my 35 sustained. However, I'm not heavy on the gas pedal, and never bent/spun an axle tube.

Also, I'm not metalerologist :D but wouldn't the 1/2 ton 44 tubes still be stronger than the 30/35 tubes, even though they're the same thickness, because of more surface area???

Daless2

03-15-2002, 09:54 AM

Hi Folks, and thank you all again for your replies.

Seams NO ONE here has been able to say they broke a Super 35 Axle, or anything else on their D-35 with Super 35 on THEIR OWN JEEP.

I am sure there are many reasons that is the case.

Perhaps no one has ever installed one because of the group belief that it will break?

And that's fine, but that doesn't answer the question if these units are any good or not, in fact now does it?

Or perhaps the group thought that this is not a good setup is incorrect because no one can stand up and give their word they broke one.

Let me see if I can summarize this;

Those who don't have it installed think at worst it is garbage (being polite), and at best think it will not hold up for their type of Jeeping, but in either case have no experience with it on their own Jeep.

And

Those WHO DO have it installed have no experience with it breaking?

Hmmmmmmm. ......

Sound a lot like the often stated "False FACT" that D-35 Axle Tubes are weak. Yet at least on the TJ's the D-35 and D-44 axle tubes are the same diameter and the same wall thickness, and the same Dana, Corp. stock # on their manufacturing floor. (Different machining to address bearings)

Perhaps as many have suggested, Jeeper's with Super 35's don't wheel as hard as others.

That is certainly the case with my Jeep, though I have done some pretty good trails like Die Trying in Montrose, CO, most of Moab, Paragon in PA (all trails but M trail) and all of Tellico, all more then once.

Do I do Johnson Valley? No I don't, nor do I compete in events.

Do most of you do Johnson Valley type trails? or Compete?

Have I broken things? Sure, but not a Super 35 in any way.

But as I said, this is only me. And that is why I asked you guys if "you" (Not "WE") have ever broken one yourselves. I believe it is important that individuals speak for themselves and give there own experiences. I believe what a Jeeper tells me is there experience with a product or axles or whatever.

Individuals speak with clarity, and are easily understood. I can not say the same thing for generalized statements of "we" or None of us, or .......

Does that make sense??

There seems to be a lot of "We Don't Build D-35" cause......

Yet the handful of people on the board who DID put a Super 35 in their D35 didn't break them.

Perhaps as mentioned I am in the wrong place for this question.

I'd like to ask another question?

Has anyone ever broken a D44 Axle on THEIR OWN JEEP?

I have. On the same trails I listed above.

That certainly don't make a D44 a bad axle choice. It is just a real experience of mine, and it just means anything can break given the right conditions, not all D44's are ...... whatever.

So to expand the question;

Who has broken any part of a D-35 with Super 35 axles in it and Detroit or Ox Locker in THEIR OWN JEEP?

OR.....

Who has broken any part of a D44 with a similar locker in THEIR OWN JEEP?

And Yes folks I do understand that if you don't have a Super 35 in your own Jeep that you're not qualified to answer the first question one way or the other. Please conceder it a non-issue if you would.

But please feel free to answer the second question on the D44. "Your Experiences" are appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

bignslow

03-15-2002, 09:59 AM

hmm, $800 for the kit...
Scout IH rear 44.. for free (just wait, you'll find one)
Gears(got mine used).. 75...
spool/detroit... 180/500
rebuild kit...... 100
spare shafts.... 50$ for 2 same length on both sides.

what do you get===spool=405
detroit-800.

with that you get bigger brakes. bigger ring gear. lower gearing if you want. (ex 5.89)
you can get moly shafts for it and have a nice axle that can run 38's

Or just get a 14 bolt and be done with it.

03-15-2002, 10:06 AM

Frank, if you want the Super 35 setup, get it.

It sounds like you want an instance of a specific individual who has busted one... obviously none of us have, but then, none of us run them.

Send that raingler.com guy an email....

bigdude

03-15-2002, 10:40 AM

As for my friends rock garden, it has claimed 6 axle shafts, three front drive shafts, three exhausts, one trannie mount and one motor mount. As for my screen name saying I'm a newbie

Maybe that should tell you something about the driving skill of your friends newb, ie not too good.

herzog

03-15-2002, 11:03 AM

I ran a D35 w/ Moser alloys for a couple years on 33x12.5s. I never broke it but I always felt really uncomfortable knowing that it might explode at any given time. I guess it was for peace of mind for me to swap a D44 in. It is nice knowing that there is one less thing to go wrong.

My D35 eliminator Kit. :D
http://www.castlenet.com/users/herzog/D44R-1.jpg

cbassett

03-15-2002, 11:45 AM

Frank,
You seem to be missing a point trying to be conveyed by myself and others in this thread. The axle shafts are not the only weakspot of the D35. Once you regear, the R&P become the weak spot. I didn't need Super 35 shafts to blow through 2 sets of R&P gears or a Detroit.

As I said before, I didn't have any tube bending/spinning problems with my D35s; so those were not the cause of my aforementioned breakages. Installing a Super35 kit would not have spared me the carnage I experienced with my D35; the R&P just get too weak for serious duty at ratio of 4.56. Folks running 3.73 may never have R&P damage with their D35; unless they experience locker/carrier faillure that takes out the R&P. How much damage must someone experience before they decide to eliminate the obvious weak link?

You may have more success finding actual Super 35 users, by posting your inquire on Jeepsunlimited.

Po' riggity

03-15-2002, 12:33 PM

Good discussion guys.. Real good. I will admit, I spent a bit of money polishing the turd, but I didnt go to the extreme of stronger shafts. I just regeared it, and stuck a detroit in. In retrospect, I can say I don't really regret it. Only a little bit. Ive broken on shaft, and that was when I was stuck in the snow, reving the motor to about 6 grand trying to get out :) Other than that, its been flawless. With that said, the 8.8 goes in at the end of this month :)
Scott

Daless2

03-15-2002, 12:50 PM

Hi cbassett - Chris,

Thank you for your comments.

I need to apologize if I am coming across to you, or anyone else, that I am trying to convince anyone of anything here.

That is not my intent.

I am honestly trying to determine what problems individual Jeeper's have had with the Super 35 in a D35 axle housing. This is the only way I know of to separate fact from opinion or even well founded beliefs.

If someone responds to my question and says they have broken a Super 35 axle or ring gear or anything else in the rear I accept that as fact. As I believe most people would. And that is what I am looking for.

I am fully aware their are many people who have the "belief" that these things break, but beliefs are not facts, even when well founded, nor do I think most people would accept them as facts, but certainly beliefs should be taken into anyone's decision making process.

Please accept my apologies for coming across otherwise.

When the Super 35 came out, it originally had the Lockrite Locker, and I am aware, like many of you, of more then a few problems which occurred with this setup. Everything from busted Super 35 axles to grenaded lockers, and ring and pinions gone bad. When things let go in the diff lots of things broke.

This setup just didn't work reliably. I know this from collecting facts from many people who had this set-up. And I think aaronlosey is absolutely right, I doubt very many of them are still in use.

Yet.......

What I find very interesting is that since the change over to the Detroit Locker, and now the Ox Locker, these things are not breaking!

Or at least they are not happening to anyone I can find. Yet the general belief is that they do break.

No Broken Axles, No Broken Ring and Pinions, No Grenaded Lockers no reports from any one of the owners of the 5,600 Super 35 kits that have been sold. (Other then the two previously shared, and what the manufacturer has shared.)

I find this very interesting, and I think most reasonable people would as well.

Thus the question I posted.

Not to make a case for the Super 35 being better then any other axle set-up at all. People do and should do what they think is best for them.

But why is it these things don't break? Or do they break and we don't know about it?

Obviously many of the folks who have responded here don't have a Super 35 to say if they break or not. The few who do have them have not broken anything. That only creates more questions and more wonderment about this set-up, as it is so opposite of generally held beliefs.

Hi aaronlosey -

Thank you for the tip on Eddie at Raingler Racks. I will most certainly send him an email to find out what problem he has had with the Super 35 and Detroit Locker. I appreciate this lead, this is exactly what I am looking for. Someone who can share an actual problem with the Super 35.

I notice you said he had tons of problems with the lockrite super 35. I wouldn't doubt that at all. I'd like to find out what problems he has had with the Detroit.

Hi Mo,

Thank you for your comments as well. As I am set up right now I do have the Super 35 Kit (two years now).

The Super 35 started life out with the Detroit Locker and has now been converted to the Ox Locker. So far, knock on wood, I have had no problems with either.

I replaced the Detroit only because of my desire for an open rear for winter weather driving.

If anyone else know of anyone I can contact who has had problems with things breaking on the Super 35 kit with either the Detroit Locker or the Ox Locker I would certainly appreciate any direction you can give me.

I have posted this question multiple times on JU, and each with the same results. No problems, no breakage. That is why I came here, for the more hardcore Jeeper's.

I honestly thought there would be more usage of this set-up, and more to be reported.

Anyway, thank you all for your comments.

Frank

cbassett

03-15-2002, 02:31 PM

Hi Frank,
If you never break an R&P set, and if you've trussed your housing, I'd keep with your investment.
R&P gears are not part of the Super35 kit, so there is no difference between your R&P on stock axles or on Super35 axles.

jp junkie

03-15-2002, 06:09 PM

at one of the first Rock Crawling Championships about 2 years + ago, a guy was running a super 35 with 35" swampers. Needless to say it broke in the second obstacle, he wasn't hammering on it. I don't think it was the axle that was the problem, one of the tubes bend, it then created stress on the axle and snap, crackle, pop.:rolleyes:

twistedspline

03-15-2002, 06:13 PM

I hate to admiting owning the turd at one time but I did. I Broke it!!! In my old 95 Yj I had the Super 35 and rolled my jeep it bent the housing and snapped a shaft. Yes I was going 50 MPH and yes the jeep rolled 3 times but it caused major carnage to the drive train....So put that on your list to... By the way the front 44 was ok...... Just my 2 cents worth of expeariance....

Daless2

03-15-2002, 08:32 PM

Hey jeepin801,

Boy I have to say, that sure does qualify under the category of Breaking a Super 35 Axle installed on your own Jeep!

Wish you didn't have to go to all that trouble to make the list though.

How did you turn out? I hope all in one piece!

You can definitely count on being added to my list. Official on my unofficial list you are now Number 3!

Chris, your right on the R&P. If you think about it there are lots of things that can and do contribute to blowing a R&P out.

Clearly the engineered design of the R&P is right at the top of the list, but also on the list are gear set up, break in, quality of the gears, Heat treatment of gears, break-in procedures, wear, driving habits, applied torque and obstacles.

Certainly all these factors can and do contribute to R&P gear failure for all designs, but I would have to say, they would be more critical on a small ring gear set-up like the D35.

So far you are right, I have done well with my set-up. But I do perform inspections often. Toe and Heal are set perfect by my book, as is backlash, yet I can see an increase in backlash the last time I pulled the cover. If this gets any greater there will be a new set of R&P gears going in prior to them breaking.

Thanks again to everyone for your comments. The unofficial count of broken Super 35 axles has now been updated to three (3).

One rockcrawling event,
One airborne bent axle
and one roll over at 50 MPH

Have a great evening folks.

Frank

aaronlosey

03-15-2002, 11:55 PM

ok, you've convinced the whole board. lets go guys, we have to go get our dana 35s back out of the trash and put them back in our rigs again before this fad passes!

maybe i can still catch the mog craze before it ends if i hurry. damn thats a huge pinion, i thought my rear drive shaft was short before!!

seriously though, the 35 isn't a bad axle, it holds up pretty well, but i can change an axle shaft in one in about 30 minutes now and be back on the trail since i've done it about 5 times now between my and other peoples rigs. and man, those things never break on level ground where you can get to them. always gotta be on a dirty obstacle.

twistedspline

03-16-2002, 09:45 AM

I was ok after about 2 months the jeep was not..... I was thrown 40 feet from the jeep( good ad for wearing a seat belt). Of course during the roll over my roll cage snapped and impaled my seat right through the spot where my chest should have been(good ad for not wearing a seat belt).:flipoff2:
The only thing worth saving off the jeep was the dana 44 front(still in perfect conodition) and 2 33x12.5 bfg mudders.
I still think jeeps are the best vehicle around.
I still think old people who dont have car insurance should be dragged in the street and shot .
Oh ya I still think the super 35 is a polished turd.....
Sorry...

jp junkie

03-16-2002, 01:19 PM

Hey how about a new topic? Has anyone tried shaving a 35c on their OWN Jeep? For clerance that is.:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: Now I am not interested in any you have seen, it has to be in your own Jeep.:rolleyes:

GhettoRig

03-16-2002, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by jeepin801
I was ok after about 2 months the jeep was not..... I was thrown 40 feet from the jeep( good ad for wearing a seat belt). Of course during the roll over my roll cage snapped and impaled my seat right through the spot where my chest should have been(good ad for not wearing a seat belt).:flipoff2:
The only thing worth saving off the jeep was the dana 44 front(still in perfect conodition) and 2 33x12.5 bfg mudders.
I still think jeeps are the best vehicle around.
I still think old people who dont have car insurance should be dragged in the street and shot .
Oh ya I still think the super 35 is a polished turd.....
Sorry...
Wow, scary story... What was your cage made out of? Do you have a new rig up and running now? I'm wondering if I've seen ya around SLC...

H8monday

03-16-2002, 02:14 PM

I ran a D35 through the hammers with 33x10.50 SX tires for about 2 seasons.
By the time I got rid of it of it, It had broken so many times in so many places that I was no way considering, polishing that turd of an axle. Although it was before the "Super 35 Kit"(thats hard to even type without laughing), was ever introduced.
In 2 seasons pushing the rig up through the Hammer trails with a 2.5 liter/ AX5, and an "89" 4.2/ AX15., I also ran a 4:1 Tera kit( with 21 and 23 spline outputs) and 4.56 gears.
I broke a 1/2 dozen pinion shaft yokes, 2 with straps, 4 with U bolts, (and I could never get the pinion seals to quit leaking). I snapped 1 pinion shaft(at the output bearings), broke 2 ring gears, 5 axle shafts, bent the axle tubes, and spun the axle tubes.
I went to an 8.8 axle and ran 35" and 36" tires for 3 years, and although I twisted one of the tubes, I never busted anything mechanical, untill I went nuts with a V8.
My point is, that if you are not breaking a D35, you are not pushing it as hard as you think,..and maybe your rock garden is not as hard core as you think. Every component on a D35 is too weak to handle extreme abuse, so trussing the tubes and beefing the shafts, is not solving the inheirant weak construction of that light weight turd. I can almost guarentee that if you spent 4 days at Johnson Valley, pushing your rig up through the ravines of Sledge, Jack, and wrecking ball, you would come away with a different opinion of your D35.
If you wanna run one, go ahead, but its not much more $$$ to swap an axle that is constructed to heavier specs and more able to handle abuse.

twistedspline

03-16-2002, 02:32 PM

Oh ya I have a new rig. Well a old new rig that is... I drive a beat up spray painted green scrambler. If you see it now you will recognise me for sure. I just chopped off the rear half and made a flat bed. I also tied the stock rear hoop into the frame. it isnt street legal right now so mostly it sits on a trailer but im working on it. If ya ever wanna go wheeling let me know.
Oh ya the front cage on my old yj was made out of 1 1/2 dom tube... It was a hard 3 rolls lol..

Daless2

03-16-2002, 06:26 PM

Hi jeepin801,

Just reading the description of your incident hurts. Glad you were able to recover fully. I'm sure that wasn't a pleasant experience.

scramblin,

Perhaps your topic has some merit. Would you like me to post it for you on it's own? Might be some value in it. You never know till you try!

Hi H8monday,

I wouldn't doubt for a second that some of the trails in JV are among the most hardcore in America. I have some friends who run them all the time, though I have not.

I am hoping to get out there to JV in late April of this year. Guess I will find out for myself if the Super 35 will hold up in that environment. It better as I carry no spares for it.

I wonder how many of the 10,655 members of this board actually run JV?

That might be a real interesting poll. Give everyone an idea of how crowded it will be when they get there, or at least who to look for.

As hardcore as some of the JV trails are, that doesn't preclude other trails from being as hardcore.

I do believe there are other places that are certainly something close to the challenges presented at JV where the Super 35 has survived intact, without breakage of any kind. Montrose, CO comes to mind, but I am sure there are others.

Perhaps there were other contributing factors as to why that is, I don't know, but I do know the statement to be true. Yet I certainly wouldn't recommend them without beefier EVERYTHING in the long term.

Summery:

On the board where NO ONE would upgrade to a Super 35, Four Jeepers have responded that they have.

And four Jeepers have had no problems with the Super 35 Kit, or any other problem with their D-35 with the Super 35 kit installed. (other then the roll over). These numbers come from first hand account of the owners of the Super 35..

However, there is no real good comparator as to they type or degree of hardcore accept what individuals define it as in their own Jeeping.

Many folks have broken D-35 axles and axles parts Without the Super 35 kit, including myself.

I have Broken a D44 Axle, but no one else has responded that they have ever had a problem of any kind with a D44. (Guess I had the one defective one in the entire universe! or maybe my Jeeping is more hardcore. Probably the former.)

Most people, on this board, who have NO Experience with the Super 35 believe they are either not worth the investment or believe they will break, or other parts of the D-35 will break.

Jeepin801 did brake a Super 35 axles during a roll at 50 MPH on his own Jeep , so that should count as a breakage, and a more then earned first hand account.

I have received two leads of folks whom someone has shared had problems with a Super 35. I do appreciate the leads. So far I have not heard back from either of these folks. (I hope they are out wheeling and having fun!)

Current Super 35 failure count = 3

Are there any more?

How 'bout them D-44's? Any breakage of any kind?

Have a great evening folks,

Frank

Slagburn

03-16-2002, 07:51 PM

Dude, you just don't get it. Who cares if the shafts are better you still have to deal with all the other weak parts. Maybe, for enough money, you'll be comparable to a heavy duty axle.
Or... step back and look at a D35 and a D44, 8.8, whatever, side by side.
If you really think you'd rather have the 35 for the same money then you're lost in space. :rolleyes:

Trailer Park Trash

03-16-2002, 07:59 PM

Well if my dumb ass remembers right, the 35 tube on a tj maybe the same as a 44, but they machine tube down to fit it into the center section. Thats why the bend at the center and they shear off in accidents.

With that said Im still running my 35 with 35's locked 4.88s and all that dumb crap. People will that I have wasted money on doing that but the only thing I paid for was the gears. The locker even came with spare shafts (havent had to use them yet). I have had no carnage but the time is coming and so I am upgrading to 44, T50 or T60, I dont know which yet just depends on the timing.

Cool thing is if go 44 or 50 Im going to use the 33 spline ox for it so it should be pretty gnarly.

To answer frank, nut up for a 44 youll be happier (better gear selection).

Josh

RCKRATZ

03-16-2002, 08:21 PM

you are completely missing the point here buddy. The fact of the matter is that by putting in a "super 35" kit you are only moving the weak point to another spot. H8Monday just gave you a rundown of all the times he broke pinions, as well as bent and spun the tubes and you pass it off because he didn't have the super 35 kit. But the fact of the matter is that it wasn't the parts included within that kit that broke, and last time I checked nobody is running 4340 r&p's so I guess you cant make that super. Personally I have broken one detroit and two rear axle shafts on my dana 44. Point being that every axle can and will be broken, but the question is how hard can you push it before it does brake. Personally I would worry more about the carrier and r&p alot more then you do. To me it is an issue of comfort....I don't like worrying about something that might break. You should have upgraded to a Dana 44 and put your "super" kit in that. You would have ended up with a much better axle, and you wouldn't be trying to convince everyone here that you didn't make a mistake by throwing money at the 35.:rolleyes:

Drunk Guy

03-16-2002, 08:53 PM

I have a d35 in the rear of my TJ and no locker with 33" tires and just last weekend I broke my drivers side shaft. Today I went to pick and pull and picked up a FF D60 for $60 and now that is going in and getting rid of that pice of $hit d35.

Daless2

03-16-2002, 09:07 PM

Hi Slagburn,

I think your observation about me "not getting it" might very well be right on the money!

As I sit here and read the responses to my question I am trying to figure out how I could have worded it or asked it better.

Obviously, based on how people responded, I wasn't clear with my question. This is my responsibly.

I think in hind sight it sounded too much like;

"Would you please tell me your opinions on the Super 35 axles?"

Or perhaps;

"What axles do you think are best?"

or even:

"What are all the weaknesses of a D-35 axle?"

Sorry about the confusion.

What I really meant to say was;

"Who Has Broken a Super 35 Axle Installed on THEIR OWN JEEP????"

Basically a question with a qualifier attached to it.

Something like:

"Hey folks, IF you have a Super 35 installed on your Jeep (That was meant to be the qualifier), THEN would you mind sharing with me if you have ever broken an axle? (That's the question part which also implies, be it silently, or any other problems you had with it.)"

My intent was to have a "finding of facts", based on real life experiences, of people who have Super 35's installed on there Jeeps, not a vote of peoples opinions.

While the other discussion does make for interesting conversation, and is enjoyable to read and LEAN FROM, it doesn't fill the desire for a finding of facts on the Super 35 Axles.

So yes, I think your observation is correct.

I don't get it, but I am working on it. It wouldn't be the first time I have been galactically out there.

Have a great evening,

Frank

Dan-H

03-17-2002, 11:11 AM

Frank,

I tore a control arm mount off my TJ 44. It was a crappy factory weld that did not penetrate the bracket. One side detached clean and the other side broke in half. When it let loose the axle rotated up and took out the UJ, Pinion yoke and tweeked the ears on the driveshaft yoke. Can't fault the 44, only poor welding at the factory.

http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v0/3/71/61/19837161nlDuNJwAVy_ph

http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v4/6/17/88/20561788MVizvVGQUy_ph

This one is *NOT MY JEEP*, but it is a good friends and I was behind him when this broke. Happened on pavement leaving the spider lake cleanup in '01. if you want firsthand details email vance@4x4wire.com IIRC, 2 spider gears and a bunch of metal shavings were found when the cover was pulled. it was a 99 TJ Factory Dana 44, 3.73, Trashlok.

http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v5/2/47/68/33424768OssSpq_ph

H8monday

03-17-2002, 11:33 AM

Frank,
I happen to agree with you 100%. It should have been only answered by the qualified people who could honestly say that they had spent the money for a D35 Super Kit, installed it and then broke it. No hearsay, or second hand, friend of a freind B.S. .
That way it could have collected dust, and long since been forgotten about.
Instead though, through some wierd act of compasssion not usually associated with this site, people have chimed in to give you opinions, based on personal experiences, and it is obviousely not what you want to hear.
You have already read and defined your opinion based on the advertising spin that can be found in any Off Road rag, in print.
So you are correct, none of us have been so bold, as to install a D35 Super Kit, then put our faith in it , as to be used for extreme offf roading and then report the info to you, in a clear concise , positive report, to satisfy your need to hear what a great upograde you have invested in.
Had the post been responded too, only per your requirements, you would have had to have restated it in a more generic statement, so as to get a response, and we could have shoved the resulting answers down your gullet in what would be a normal response to,...."Is my D35 cool or what?". You got your answers, now live with it.
The D35 is a POS axle for off road use, regaurdless of the amount of polish.

SOCALXJ

03-17-2002, 03:35 PM

I put a few bucks into my 35, and it lasted as long as could be expected. I ran 33's on stock axles for a while. I ran 33's with a warn ff for a while including sledgehammer.. hell I even ran 35" tires with the warn ff on wreckingball trail(broke a hub). But it was finally time to ditch the 35, when i cracked the housing on the arb, and chipped off a tooth on the pinion gear.

My view is, you build up the shafts on the 35, and now your weaklink is the r and p.. especially if you go to 4.56 or 4.88.. the pinion gear gets tiny.. just like many of other posts have said already.

ChadLloyd

03-17-2002, 06:06 PM

When I first got into wheeling, I didn't know what I wanted to with it, or how far I wanted to take it. When I wanted to go beyond the 31 I started out with, I got the Super 35 when I went to 33s.

Shortly after that, I got hooked big time, and found that I liked rock crawling the best, and wanted to go bigger, so I swapped out my super 35 and put waggy axles in.

This demonstrates 2 things:

1) Incrementalism. It is an almost inescapable part of wheeling. This is why a lot of people who have had the super 35 didn't break it - if they got to the point where thought it was being taxed, they upgraded BEFORE it happened. Very few people use breakage as a planned method of upgrading - most TRY to upgrade before the breakage.

2) Market niches. I don't think the super 35 is junk, I think it is aimed at a certain niche in the market, and it serves that niche really well. However, once you move out of that niche, say for instance by going real hard core rock crawling extreme, it doesn;t serve your purpose as well, and you move on. Does that mean it was a bad product? No, of course not. But what everyone here is trying to tell you is that if hard core extreme rock crawling is your thing, it is a product that is not well suiited to THAT purpose.

I had one, got rid of it, because I didn't think it suited my (what was then NEW) goals. You don't HAVE TO break it to realize that. I still think it's a great product for 33 sized tires not use in extreme extreme wheeling..... just not a great product for the purpose most people assume on this board.

Daless2

03-17-2002, 08:33 PM

Hi H8monday, and thank you for your comments and especially your compassion.

Compassion is a good thing!

It allows someone to be as "kind and gentle as they can afford to be, and only as tough as they have to be". And, if nothing else it certainly keeps others off balance.

I'm sure none of that is a new or unique thought to you, so please don't let it upset you.

I certainly can see from your Sig that your Jeep is very well built. And while I don't know, I would venture you do your share of competition.

That must be a blast too. Do you win very often? What events do you compete in?

H8monday, why would you want to shove anything down my gullet ????

Is there some hidden value in that, or perhaps some pleasure I am missing?

If so, go for it. Amateurs don't bother me in the least. I'm been scared by professionals. :)

I hope you have a great night. We can agree or disagree, that doesn't matter.

I'll still inquire about any Facts from folks who have actually had problems with there Super 35, and you can keep saying they are no good for competitions.

One is my question, the other is an answer to someone else's question, I guess.(???)

I only care to know who has actually broken these axles or had other problems WITH their D-35's when the Super 35 is installed so that perhaps I can ask questions and learn how these events happened.

Thus the question that seams to be so incredibly hard to understand.

"Who Has Broken a Super 35 Axle Installed on THEIR OWN JEEP????"

Why is that? I have no clue! But I could be having a Blonde Day here.

In my wonderment I checked each word and the sentence structure against the Official List of 1,200 Word Simple English.

Nope! No words that are not on the official list. Sentence structure looks ok too. but that might very well be debatable.

Sorry, don't meant to be so upsetting to you. Certainly some of us are not as experience as others. And for your experiences I tip my hat to you.

Hi Dan, Hi Chad, Hi SOCALXJ, thanks for taking the time to reply to this post.

You'd get no argument from me on any of your points. We all know everything, sooner or later breaks. Some things more then others.

As I said earlier, I've broken a D-44 too. Not sure why, but I broke drivers side axle once and a Detroit along with a r&p gear another time.

I suspect the second time I made an error in setting pinion gear depth as the wear pattern on the ring had too much heal on it. Still it's a great axle.

I have no clue how much a Super 35 axle will take.

What level of abuse would be it's limits. Thus my question.

And while I appreciate everyone's responses, I do think it is accurate to say I still have no clue based on Fact. Certainly I have a lot of folk's opinions. And that's great too.

Thanks for your civil and reasonable replies,

Frank

H8monday

03-17-2002, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Daless2
Hi H8monday, and thank you for your comments and especially your compassion.

Compassion is a good thing!

Frank

Passion would be much more appropriate than Compassion:D

Daless2

03-17-2002, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by H8monday

Passion would be much more appropriate than Compassion:D

Passion is good Too!

Do you really have a kangaroo ranch? That would be incredibly interesting.

Is it a commercial venture?

I had the good fortune of being assigned to the Australian Armed Forces for two years. What a wonderful country, great people, incredible off-road adventures, and kangaroo's everywhere!!! (Along with lots of very poisonous snakes!, Not so nice!)

Frank

ZUK

03-18-2002, 05:48 AM

Super 35 a polished turd? hehehe .... I sympathize with those that are stuck with a dana35 and can't afford ANY options. But those that actually reach for 800 bucks to upgrade their 35 are just lazy and taking the easy way out. With a little initiative, a junkyard d44 could be rolled under the Jeep for less than that 800 marker. I found one for 75. see this page http://dreamwater.com/zuk/dana44rearhousing.html but a typical scenario would be 300 for the 44, 50 for wheel cylinders and brakes,80 for new wheel bearings,230 for ring and pinion and master kit. Find a friend to help set up the gears and then just cut the old brackets off the 35 and re-weld to the 44 housing. Done. And just like Franky said many times....I DID IT MY WAYYYYYYYYYYYY.

ChadLloyd

03-18-2002, 06:10 AM

I still believe you are asking the wrong question. How 'bout this one:

of those that have personally bought a super 35 (and will admit it LOL), how many of you swapped it out for something stronger even though it hadn't broken?

Put me down for one on that count. Peace of mind COUNTS too.

Jakesteramalamajama

03-18-2002, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by ChadLloyd
I still believe you are asking the wrong question. How 'bout this one:

I think so too. How about this question:

"Did swapping Super 35 shafts into your vehicle prevent the ring and pinion assembly from breaking or make your rig stop on a dime with 35 inch tires?"

:flipoff2:

1TONTJ

03-18-2002, 07:17 AM

Good point for sure. TJ stock brakes SUCK with big tires.

Phil

H8monday

03-18-2002, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Daless2

Passion is good Too!

Do you really have a kangaroo ranch? That would be incredibly interesting.

Is it a commercial venture?

I had the good fortune of being assigned to the Australian Armed Forces for two years. What a wonderful country, great people, incredible off-road adventures, and kangaroo's everywhere!!! (Along with lots of very poisonous snakes!, Not so nice!)

Frank

Compassion would convey that I had an understanding and /or concern, for other peoples suffering.
Passion on the other hand, conveys a feeling of powerful emotions.

No I dont live on a Kangaroo Farm,...its a long story,..but dont get me started on the advantages of my prime young roos, over the goats that the rest of the TIN:skull:BENDERS preferr:eek:

jp junkie

03-18-2002, 01:27 PM

Most people, on this board, who have NO Experience with the Super 35 believe they are either not worth the investment or believe they will break, or other parts of the D-35 will break

I have no experience eating rat poison either, but from what I hear, it can kill ya.;)

Mr.RatBastard

03-18-2002, 01:41 PM

How about a chrome turd option in the smilies or a can of turd polish :D

Daless2

03-18-2002, 04:53 PM

Hi Zuk,

Thanks for sharing your $75 D-44 purchase and installation pictures. Well done. I'd say you got a great deal there.

Have you wheeled it hard enough to break it yet?

As I'm sure you know the ability to "afford" something is a key factor in many a decision making processes as to what we put on our Jeeps. I've been blessed in that regard in that is isn't a issue for me.

Where you able to set up your own gears? I couldn't tell by the captions on the pictures.

I wish you will with your Waggie D-44. I'm sure it will suit your needs just fine.

Do you have any experience breaking a Super 35 on your Jeep or Toy? If so I would greatly appreciate if you could share your experiences.

Hi Chad,

Thanks for suggesting a new question. I will take it under advisement and perhaps ask it next time.

Peace of mind sure is a good thing to have, I can understand that.

Is it safe to assume that you upgraded to a D-44 for the peace of mind you desired and not because you broke the Super 35, axles, or ring and pinion or anything else?

Please advise if that is a mis-statement on my part.

If not I will count yours in the "No Problem's - Factual Column" with an appropriate foot note for peace of mind.

I'm happy you're blessed with the means to afford to do what you want too!

Hi Jake,

I think the question of who has broken the ring and pinion assembly with a Super 35 installed is a good one. And while I certainly wouldn't claim to have knowledge of the entire Super 35 installation base universe, I don't seem to be able to find a single person who has broken a ring and pinion assembly when they have the Super 35 kit installed.

Why is that? I don't know. But I do know that is an accurate reporting based on my efforts to find out.

And there is lays the anomaly and the driving factor behind my original question. How can this be?

There certainly is a lot of conjecture, and even evidence that the D-35 is weak in many regards. No reasonable person would argue that point.

Yet there appears to be little evidence from people who actually have the Super 35 that indicates it is problematic in any great way at all.

Many seem to think my "question" is a statement of some sort about the benefits of a Super 35 axle kit over some other type of axle.

It isn't.

It is simply a simple English inquiry to those who have this set-up as to what if any problems they may have had. Nothing complex about it.

The count for this forum (POR) seems to be 5 people have had the Super 35 and no one has had any problems of any kind (accept for the 50 mph roll over).

That seams to stick in peoples sides for some unexplainable reason. Don't let it. That is not my intent nor do I know how to make people free better about it.

To All;

Life is simple, in that I don't have to like everything, nor do I feel I must have a better answer when things don't fit into one of my own pre-defined molds.

I get in trouble that way. But I do find value in trying to understand things, as I am sure most people do.

For myself anyway, there is no value in hearing how great someone things the Super 35 Kit is, nor how great the D-44 is (I had one, broke it twice, but I guess with all the words in this post that would be easy to miss), or the D-60.

If I wanted one I most certainly would pick up the phone, call Currie Enterprises and I am sure they would be happy to build and ship me one.

There is however some value (at least to me) in finding out how and what actually breaks with the Super 35 Kit.

The operative word there is "Actually",and not in thought or expectation, or believe or statements that are made as fact when in reality they are not fact.

I realize my desire for "facts" and continually asking for "facts" probably rubs some the wrong way. But think about it, it's not intended to do so.

Life really is simple, along with my question:

"Who Has Broken a Super 35 Axle Installed on THEIR OWN JEEP????"

I realize many folks wish to be helpful and I am sure the information being shared is helpful to many. And that is goodness. I especially like Zuk's $75 D-44. I wish every one could have one.

That said, some folks here (on POR), and certainly elsewhere, do indeed have or have had the Super 35 kit installed on their D-35's.

And regardless of the opinion of the masses no one has stepped up here to say they have had a problem of any kind with it. (Please read that Axle, R&P, ect.)

I have a tendency to take people at their words, and don't believe any of these folks made any of this up.

Do you?

One last note on scramblin's rat poison.

I'm really glad that you recognize this stuff isn't good for you. When did you first realize this?

Was it from some factual news report or something of the like? Or do you think you used your own powers of deductive reasoning to re-invent the factual wheel on this one?

I think most people would conclude, based of the "factual experience of once living, but now dead people" that this stuff isn't good for your health.

Are there any like people who have broken a Super 35 Axle? Hmmmmmmmmm.....

As far as the need to for some folks to make some kind of point over and over again which is way off topic. I suspect it is to live up to some previously built reputation. Good for you. Be my guest.

It's kind like the teenager with green and orange hair and a pierced nose. One can choose to let it upset then or to respond to them. Or one can choose to treat it for what it is. Entertainment.

It's been very entertaining folks.

Thank you all.

A special thank you to those how were able to share some data about their own experiences with the Super 35.

If there are any other's with Super 35 Kit experiences? That would be great.

Frank

PS: H8monday, That was a great responce!! :)

H8monday

03-18-2002, 05:08 PM

You are holding your own, pretty well "Newbie, especialy considering the topic you started.

When you finally come around, ask me about the basics of an 8.8 swap, and Ill try and steer ya right this time,(those guys behind the counter will tell you anything you need to hear about off the shelf products they carry.

Wheel that Super D35, like theres no tomorrow and bust it up, really good. That way we can end the next topic like this, quick and painless.

I cant believe there has been a 1000 glimpses at this topic, the mass of lurkers out there who find this interesting is giving me the heebie geeebies :eek:

Damn Newbies:flipoff2:

Daless2

03-18-2002, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by H8monday
You are holding your own, pretty well "Newbie, especialy considering the topic you started.

When you finally come around, ask me about the basics of an 8.8 swap, and Ill try and steer ya right this time,(those guys behind the counter will tell you anything you need to hear about off the shelf products they carry.

Wheel that Super D35, like theres no tomorrow and bust it up, really good. That way we can end the next topic like this, quick and painless.

I cant believe there has been a 1000 glimpses at this topic, the mass of lurkers out there who find this interesting is giving me the heebie geeebies :eek:

Damn Newbies:flipoff2:

Thanks H8monday,

I would appreciate having the opportunity to pick your brain in the future. I'm sure the information you can share would be of value to me.

I'm currently fighting a health problem. I've won, but the illness doesn't know it yet. (illnesses can be incredibly stupid at times.)

Anyway, if my energies permit my wife and I are planning an extended trip out west for 8 weeks beginning in late April.

Going back to Montrose, CO, and Moab.

Then the plan is to hit SoCal and Arizona. I figure if I add these two new areas to what I have wheeled around the world I will be able to say I have wheeled all the toughest places on the planet earth!!!

I have to say though, so far I haven't seen anything that compares to what there is in the Northern Territory of Australia!

They have rocks and rock formations there that defy one's imagination. (And as I said before, the snakes make it that much more interesting too.)

Perhaps if time and schedules permit when I am in the SoCal area for JV, you and I will get a chance to meet and wheel together. I wouldn't hold you up too badly. You have my word on that.

Have a great night,

Frank

PS: What's your name?

Grandpa Jeep

03-18-2002, 07:53 PM

Frank,
I read the whole thread, and I have to agree you are missing the point everyone has been trying to tell you. The super 35 kit upgrades the axle shafts and carrier. The point folks have been trying to make is there are other things on the D35 that are weak besides the axles and carrier. Upgrading to the super 35 kit does nothing to address the other weaknesses. The weak point of the stock D35 is definately the carrier and the axle shafts. The super 35 kit definately makes it stronger in those two areas and therefore stronger overall. Whether that is strong enough depends on your setup and your driving habits. H8Monday said he broke axles, ring and pinions, yokes, axle housings. Everything besides the axles probably would have broken regardless of whether he had the super 35 kit installed or not. Yet that doesn't seem to count. Perhaps a better question would be to ask if those who own the super 35 kit were breaking their stock D35 before the upgrade and did the super 35 kit stop their breakage? My guess is you would find most of those who bought the super 35 kit upgraded for piece of mind and had never broken the stock axles or perhaps had one failure in an extrordinary circumstance. Those who have broken the stock axle repeatedly, like H8, decided that they needed a much heavier axle.

FWIW I do think your query is a worthwhile one. The Super 35 is obviously strong enough for some folks, and if you own one, it is reasonable to find out just what the limits are. Obviously it's less expensive to find out how other people broke theirs rather than push your own until it breaks, but I think you should pay attention to the breaks that occured to areas other than the ones that are addressed by the Super 35 kit. Perhaps that will help you determine what kind of abuse it will put up with.

H8monday

03-18-2002, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Daless2

Thanks H8monday,

Frank

PS: What's your name?

Mr H8, will do!
Hahahahaha

Jakesteramalamajama

03-19-2002, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by Daless2
Hi Jake,

I think the question of who has broken the ring and pinion assembly with a Super 35 installed is a good one. And while I certainly wouldn't claim to have knowledge of the entire Super 35 installation base universe, I don't seem to be able to find a single person who has broken a ring and pinion assembly when they have the Super 35 kit installed.

Why is that? I don't know. But I do know that is an accurate reporting based on my efforts to find out.

And there is lays the anomaly and the driving factor behind my original question. How can this be?

There certainly is a lot of conjecture, and even evidence that the D-35 is weak in many regards. No reasonable person would argue that point.

Yet there appears to be little evidence from people who actually have the Super 35 that indicates it is problematic in any great way at all.

Many seem to think my "question" is a statement of some sort about the benefits of a Super 35 axle kit over some other type of axle.

It isn't.

It is simply a simple English inquiry to those who have this set-up as to what if any problems they may have had. Nothing complex about it.

The count for this forum (POR) seems to be 5 people have had the Super 35 and no one has had any problems of any kind (accept for the 50 mph roll over).

That seams to stick in peoples sides for some unexplainable reason. Don't let it. That is not my intent nor do I know how to make people free better about it.

Some men you just... can't... reach.

Good luck with your Super 35 Newbie!

:flipoff2: ,
Jake

LAME

03-19-2002, 05:23 AM

CITY WORK has wheeled his Stuper 35 in Moab, SoDak, around MN, and gonna go to Montrose and Moab next week. So far he hasn't had any problems. He has 4.88's and 35" MT/R's. When he busts it I'm sure a real axle will be going in.

It depends how you drive, and how heavy your rig is. 60's bust also:D

Does anyone want to claim this:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

ChadLloyd

03-19-2002, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Daless2
Hi Zuk,

Hi Chad,

...

Is it safe to assume that you upgraded to a D-44 for the peace of mind you desired and not because you broke the Super 35, axles, or ring and pinion or anything else? Please advise if that is a mis-statement on my part.

If not I will count yours in the "No Problem's - Factual Column" with an appropriate foot note for peace of mind.

I'm happy you're blessed with the means to afford to do what you want too!

Well, first of all, I am a supporter of the Super 35 for those in that market segment that it is aimed at. The fact is that 90% of the wheelers out there don't do the extreme stuff, and for them, this kit will probably work fine. From your comments, I'm guessing you might fall into this category. It's possible that even if you go to tough trails, you are not wheeling hard enough to break the Super 35, in which case I would say great, go for it, have fun, and no worries. ...... hopefully.

There's a big difference between going to a tough trail and wheeling hard on a tough trail. We all know this, and for me it boils down to guys who come with BillaVista and I on one of our tough trails, then take the bypasses around certain obstacles (ie: Bill, I'm referring to those that bypass Boulder Alley, for instance). So it is possible to do a tough trail without subjecting your rig to the kind of torture that someone like H8 does say, pulling out of his driveway :D :D (just kiddin). Point is I don't think where a person has wheeled in an adequate indicator of how much they are going to torture their drivetrain. you can take a pretty close to stock TJ through most of this stuff, if you're careful.

Now you could look at my story and come to the conclusion that I changed it out for peace of mind, and if you do, then fine by me, I don't care. From my point of view, I recognized the limitations of the product, recognized that I was moving beyond them, and changed to something that was more suited to the purpose, with thanks to the super 35 kit for holding my rig together while I explored what wheeling was all about. You might call this peace of mind, I call it 'the right tool for the job".

Either way, it boils down to the same thing to me - if you think this product is going to work for you, go for it. Just recognize that it was made to handle the needs of a certain niche market, and if you take it beyond what it was designed to do it will probably fail (I mean something in the axle, not the kit components themselves), as anything will when taken beyond its design limitations. When I bought the kit, the distributor himself told me that it was aimed at those 90% of guys that don't do the extreme stuff. For these people it's fine, and if you're one of them, then great, but there's little point in trying to convince people who fall outside that niche that they should share your point of view - their requirements are different than yours.

I suspect all the guys on this board either are or believe they are past the point where a product such as this is going to meet their needs. With all due respect, if what you want is testimonials, then JU is a better place to get those on a product like this. Not too many here are going to ever consider this thing, so what kind of useful data could you pick up from them anyway? and I'm definitely a junior, beginner POR member! so don't go by me.

regarding having the money: I was lucky in that I found a buyer who wanted the exact combo I happened to want to get rid of (super 35 rear, 95 YJ 297 joint front) at the exact time I wanted to sell it, so overall I came out OK, but it was luck. Don't think it would happen again. But then I don't call it 'incrememtalism', I prefer to refer to it as 'research and development'. :D

Daless2

03-19-2002, 08:43 AM

Hi Grandpa, and thank you for your thoughtful comments.

I like your thought on considering those who have upgraded to the Super 35 and if they had previously broken a D-35 with their wheeling style. That would certainly add relevance to any discussion and data collected.

Do you really have a SVO engine in the 1950 CJ 3A? That must scream!

H8monday, Guess Mr H8 will do then!

Jake, thanks for your comments all the way through this thread.

Chad, Thank you for your comments as well. We all do what we feel at the time is right for us.

I was able to get some valuable information from some folks here who do have the Super 35, yet regardless of that, all the time here has been well spent.

I plan to give it a break for a few days. Don't want to overstay my welcome.

But next week I'll post another question about Mile Marker Hydraulic Winches! :)

Have a great day folks,

Frank

OverTech

03-19-2002, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by ChadLloyd

For these people it's fine, and if you're one of them, then great, but there's little point in trying to convince people who fall outside that niche that they should share your point of view - their requirements are different than yours.

With all due respect, if what you want is testimonials, then JU is a better place to get those on a product like this.

Maybe Frank types too fast and that's why you can't grasp what he is asking, so I will type very slowly...

He is not trying to convince anyone of anything.

He is not looking for testimonials.

He is looking for people that have broken their Super35 to speak up and say "I broke mine Super 35".

Dave

1TONTJ

03-19-2002, 09:28 AM

DAVE! Welcome to POR Newbie :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Phil

ChadLloyd

03-19-2002, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by OverTech

Maybe Frank types too fast and that's why you can't grasp what he is asking, so I will type very slowly...

He is not trying to convince anyone of anything.

He is not looking for testimonials.

He is looking for people that have broken their Super35 to speak up and say "I broke mine Super 35".

Dave

sorry man you're not typing slow enough for it to go through my thick skull :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think it is fairly obvious to everyone that he is gathering data on who has broken the super 35. It is also equally obvious to everyone that he is doing it to justify a purchase, or possible future purchase, of the product by either himself or someone he knows. When you ask a question, you give just as much information about yourself as you get back in response. Don't think everyone on this board or any other board is making judgements about who you are and what you really want based on the question and how it's asked? Get real. Personally I think he is trying to convince someone of something - he's trying to convince himself that this is a good idea despite all the advice to the contrary. DUH!!!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jp junkie

03-19-2002, 09:59 AM

One last note on scramblin's rat poison. I'm really glad that you recognize this stuff isn't good for you. When did you first realize this? Was it from some factual news report or something of the like? Or do you think you used your own powers of deductive reasoning to re-invent the factual wheel on this one?

Its funny that you ask, in my early days I realized that there were folks out there that knew a lot more shit than I did. Some of them are full of it, but others are definately worth listening to. I know some of the good folks on this list are trying to save you the anguish of learning about polishing a 35c the hard way. Ben Franklin once said, "Experience keeps a dear school, yet fools will learn in no other." All we are trying to do is save you a little time and cash. As far as the rat poison, I truly believe in natural selection so I try to learn from the experienced.:)

Grandpa Jeep

03-19-2002, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Daless2
Do you really have a SVO engine in the 1950 CJ 3A? That must scream!

Yes I really do! Unfortunately I haven't finished it yet so I have yet to drive it, but yeah it should really scream. Check it out if you like. (http://www.jeeptech.com/oliver)

Daless2

03-19-2002, 12:57 PM

Hi Grandpa Jeep - Oliver,

Thanks for the link to your site. I like what your doing with your CJ-3A.

I don't blame you for wanting to look into a third option on that turbo activation. That could defiantly create conditions for a bad day. Let me know how you do this.

I assume you will use a three position switch of some type.

If you do and want to take is a step farther I would enjoy attempting to build you a voice activated circuit (to drive three relays) to control the boost.

Something like the TV ad, only this would respond to you saying something like;

Turbo Off
Turbo On
Turbo Plus

Hackett Gulch looks like it could get very interesting in the snow.

Thanks for sharing your project and pictures.

Frank

PS. Great looking kids too!

OverTech

03-19-2002, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by ChadLloyd

sorry man you're not typing slow enough for it to go through my thick skull :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think it is fairly obvious to everyone that he is gathering data on who has broken the super 35. It is also equally obvious to everyone that he is doing it to justify a purchase, or possible future purchase, of the product by either himself or someone he knows.

Frank has had his Super35 for quite some time and his search for information on breakage is an honest search for information and has been going on for quite a while. He has no need to justify anything to anyone else... This is just one of the things he does, instead of spreading opinions and hearsay, he looks for facts...

No hidden agenda, just Frank being frank...

Dave

OverTech

03-19-2002, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
DAVE! Welcome to POR Newbie :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Phil

Hey Phil, been here a while, I just mostly lurk...

See ya in about a month, I'm going up to scout out the trails next weekend... :flipoff2: ;)

Dave

bigdude

03-19-2002, 05:23 PM

Frank has had his Super35 for quite some time and his search for information on breakage is an honest search for information and has been going on for quite a while. He has no need to justify anything to anyone else... This is just one of the things he does, instead of spreading opinions and hearsay, he looks for facts...

Sounds like you've been lurking while huddled up to Frank's a$$

:rainbow: :flipoff2:

ChadLloyd

03-19-2002, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by OverTech

Frank has had his Super35 for quite some time

:eek: you're kidding!!! Never would have guessed.

Mr.RatBastard

03-19-2002, 09:52 PM

OK....almost everyone here that needed a stronger axle (complete)went with something overall stronger than a upgraded 35.JU would probably garner more results to your question.What is your objective ? You want to gather data for your personal use ?why ? for peace of mind ? To show everyone the results ? why ? a dana 60 will forever be stronger...as will a 9" and a host of other options.I believe the problem with your post is that MOST wouldnt spend the $ on a 35.....why ? a dana 60 will forever be stronger ...as will a 9" and a host of other options .Thats why.Would a super 35 suit the needs of a lot of people....sure...and so will a stock 35.I am aware that I am responding to your question with a question....That is my perogitive.answer if you wish dont if you dont...That is your perogitive.

Jakesteramalamajama

03-20-2002, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by bigdude

Sounds like you've been lurking while huddled up to Frank's a$$

:rainbow: :flipoff2:

No kidding... Frank must have trouble taking a dump with your head stuck up there like that... :rainbow:

:flipoff2:
Jake

Daless2

03-20-2002, 07:36 AM

Hi Mr. RB,

Normally I would ignore questions offered up as answers to a question simply because they have a tendency to change the subject and muddy up otherwise crystal clear waters.

Yet your questions are certainly provocative and probing in a positive sense and deserve my best efforts to answer.

I will dispense with the chaff quickly and get right to the wheat in a sentence or two.

Within the chaff we can find agreement that the D-60 will forever be stronger then a Super 35 Axle.

As will a Ford 9" and a host of others that would be stronger axles.

And I have no doubt that many people here and elsewhere have indeed upgraded to these many good solutions when they felt a need for additional strength in the area.

And I am equally sure that when folks made their own decisions to upgrade to any of these axles they did so based on their own determinations and experiences, whether that be breakage of a less stout axle, or desire for peace of mind, or a change in wheeling style, or whatever.

I have no personal issue with anyone's upgrades to their own Jeeps, and hope they are satisfied with what they choose.

And while certainly not related to my question I am sure there are many folks here who have D-60 in there Jeeps, or Ford 9"er too.

Yet I feel there are many folks here who have do not have these axles either.

I could be wrong on this. It's just an observation based on the information people have put in there own Sig's when they post across this Jeep forum here on POR.

But that certainly has nothing to do with my question either.

So lets get to the wheat.

My question was, and still is;

"Who Has Broken a Super 35 Axle Installed on THEIR OWN JEEP????"

And your question is;

"What is your Objective? Why do you want to know? and What are you going to use this information for?"

(We'll call that the heart of the matter, or in this case the wheat germ itself!)

My question is relatively simple in that it is scoped, and I do believe well defined. To be valid a person answering must be, or must have been a Jeeper who has or had a Super 35 axle kit installed on your Jeep.

I think we can all agree on that one too!

I realize most here have not done this.

I also believe most here are offering up other advice, or other experience, that do not answer the question yet I feel as honest efforts to be helpful.

These efforts are sincerely appreciated, by myself and I am sure many others who are reading this thread.

In addition I have no reason to doubt anyone's word on there experience with this or that or whatever.

What I do have a desire to accomplish is to get down to the reality of something, and in this case the reality I wish to get to is the reliability of the D-35 with a Super 35 kit installed. NOT WHAT is better. (So that's the OBJECTIVE!)

Someone made a statement that I trying to justify my own purchase of this kit. I can see how someone might feel that way. It's wrong but I can understand it.

I have nothing to offer other then my word that that is not the case. Or at least it's not the case in my conscious mind. Perhaps my sub-conscious mind has a mind of it's own. In either case I feel no need to defined myself as that would only change the subject and muddy the waters up too.

My desire is to find the performance facts about the Super 35 kit. NOT WHAT IS BETTER.

I think we can all agree, without a doubt that the general consensus in the Jeeping world is this isn't a good thing to do.

The general consensus is that if the axles don't break, then something else will. The general consensus is ........... I am sure we could all go on and on with a litany of general consensus remarks on this topic.)

I have no doubt, in many situation the general consensus is indeed correct.

Yet there is a great cavernous leap between what the general consensus is and what actual field experiences is.

And this is what I wish to get to the bottom of. It's also something that really isn't difficult to get to the bottom of either.

All it requires is to ask people who have this installed what if anything has broken. So as to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Maybe I can try another example.

For years, across all these forums statements have often been made that make a lot of sense, so people adopt them, and repeat them and before long they become facts.

Yet in reality sometimes they are not facts.

One that immediately comes to mind and would be somewhat related to this topic are the thin walled, small tubed, cheap, weak, easily bendable axle tubes D-35 axle tubes that come on the TJ's as compared to the TJ D-44's.

One could search ANY Jeep forum and find false statements of fact that the TJ D-35 axle tubes are made of much thinner materials then the TJ D44 axle tube are.

This just isn't true, and it doesn't take much effort to find that out.

Here are the steps involved:

Buy a few shares of Dana Corp. stock,
go to a stock holders meeting in Toledo, OHIO,
ask for and get a shop tour,
ask a few questions,
watch both axles being made with the same axle tube stock.

Then (verify for yourself);
cut a few D44 tubes,
cut a few D-35 tubes,
use a caliper or micrometer and measure.

Then (ask others to validate your own data, but don't tell them yet what youmeasured. Keep it clean, no "group think");

Follow this up with asking others WHO HAVE THESE Axles (Not D-60's) to;
measure the tube diameter and wall thickness

and;
before you know it you have what are called "Findings".

Collect the "findings" and analyze them.
Realize that the "findings" contributed by John Doe jeeper all match!
All the measurements are the same, regardless if it is a TJ D-35 or a TJ D44.

Get about 20 or so exactly the same "Findings" and none that are different and I do believe most people can and do accepted this as fact.

(A foot notes on the above example;

There certainly are other differences between a TJ D35 and a TJ D44 in the housing, but one of them IS NOT that TJ Tubes are machined down to a thinner wall so they can be pressed into the diff housing. This is just not a true statement either, yet it too gets spread around as if it was a fact.)

When things are stated as facts that are not true someone who has an interest in that particular topic gets BAD information.

Do I think people intend to be misleading in any way? No, most don't intend to, but the results are the same when BAD information is spouted about as fact.

I think we could all agree that stating BAD information as fact IS NOT a good thing. Can't we?

So "Why did I asked the Question?" is to find the facts based on the experiences of people who have these Super 35 kits installed on their own Jeeps.

To sift through the chaff and get to the wheat.

Beyond the Manufacturer's hype and beyond the dealer hype whom both have an interest in only good news about their economic product.

And beyond the turdiness (is that a real word?) opinions which are fine yet admittedly not based on any experience with the Super 35 in any way. (For what I am sure are valid reason in each persons opinion.)

Do I accept the fact that people here and elsewhere have had problems with their D-35's. Sure I do. No reason to doubt this at all. But that's not my question now is it?

Yet there is an anomaly here in that I can't find very many people who have had problems with their D-35 after they have had the Super 35 Kit installed.

(I can't help that gets people with no experience with the Super 35 kit excited either, but to each their own.)

And that is why I asked the question. To see if this really is an anomaly or if it isn't.

I posted this question here because I thought I could find some additional information here. And in truth I have.

I have found a lot of chaff having nothing to do with the question, and 5 responses directly to the question. I'm a happy camper!

Certainly I realize folks with D-60's would find little, if any, direct value in this. And that's fine.

Yet perhaps indirectly even this effort has some value for all. If for no other reason then creating a "taste" for crystal clear waters of "fact" vs. the muddy variety of "opinion" based on no experance for a given topic.

What will I do with this data? What I always do, share it with fellow Jeeper's who have an interest in hearing about it. And for those who don't have an interest I fully expect they will exercise there little know First Amendment Right that goes along with Free Speech, the Right Not To Listen!

MR RB, I hope my efforts to answer your questions do indeed answer your questions and perhaps shed a little more light on this.

(Wait till we get to the Mile Marker Hydraulic winch discussion. Then the real interesting conversations will begin!)

I would hope you will accept my word that there is no sinister motive or hidden agenda that I am aware of in my asking my question. But that certainly is your prerogative to determine on your own!

Hope you have a great day,

Frank

Mr.RatBastard

03-20-2002, 08:36 AM

It seems I have muddied my own water.
I appreciatte your effort and do not take offense to anything your doing ( anyone who does is to far gone to worry with )Hopefully you will take no offense in my curiousity and offerings of alternitive thoughts that may pertain to your question.Just for the record I believe people shouldnt always do the norm just becouse everyone says so,I have run a dana 60 rear and 44 front in the past , my current Jeep will run a later model high pinion 30 in the front and a 8.8 in the rear,becouse it's mine and thats the way I want it.I totally agree that many things get repeated until they become fact and in reality have no basis ( I hate that ).I am always curious to hear real world 1st hand knowledge....I guess I came across as a Butthead,for that I apologize.I belive what has gotten so many so excited is,They want to make sure that you know the fact you havent found many people saying they broke something isnt a clear statement of it's strength . Maybe it's lack of heavy use or tire size or driving style.You seem intelligent enough to take all variables into account but I believe that's why people got so excited.I think it would be a good idea ( when you think this has gone on long enough) to include a concise post including all the info you have gathered.It will save people having to sift through all this and possibly show your opinion on the facts ?( I believe there is a misconception about your opinion ...but I could be wrong )Have a day :)

bigdude

03-20-2002, 09:56 AM

to include a concise post including all the info you have gathered

CONCISE being the key word there. Daless2 is writting some friggin' novels here:eek:

Daless2

03-20-2002, 10:41 AM

Hello again Mr. RB,

And thank you for your reply.

You needn't worry about coming across in any wrong way. My skin isn't real thin to start with and more importantly your questions where indeed thoughtful.

Besides, I think most folks, even when appearing to be difficult or even insulting, are just doing some "fun'in" and I certainly can take a joke. Most people can.

In my own mind I believed I had covered most of this before this mornings post.

But it was obvious by your questions I was not very effective in doing so.

I appreciated the opportunity to clarify.

There is no doubt there are many contributing factors to why anything breaks.

Not the least of which is the degree of hardcore wheeling and/or the style of the Jeeper in wheeling,. Particularly in this case, where the more hardcore you get the higher the breakage count should be. (One would certainly think that.)

I don't know the answers to all the variables, nor have I come to any kind of conclusion on this either.

All I really know is what I wheel and how I wheel it and that in itself doesn't make for a fact either.

Here is what I know factually:

In the approximately 18 months that I have been trying to obtain this data I have heard from a little more then 350 Jeeper's who have the Super 35 set-up.

This certainly isn't the entire Universe of Super 35 owners, but it is a significant number.

The make-up and set-up of these Jeep's run anywhere from 32 inch tires and set-ups for basic trail driving, all the way up to 37" tires, Atlas ll's 4.88 gears, and trails which include the gambit in Johnson Valley, CA - Montrose, CO - Paragon, PA - Tellico, NC and most trails in between. Certainly within these trails there are many unknown variables as well. Some people take the by-passes while other say they do not.

Of these folks who I have been in contact with Three (3) have shared problems of any kind, including axles, R&P, bearings, tubes or housings.

With-in these Three (3) reported problems I am including the one axle breakage, (reported here on POR) which occurred during a 50 MPH roll over, even though I think must folks would concede this to be a bit outside the design specs of the product.

I have no desire, nor will I excuse any reported breakage with this set-up for this or that or any reason. That would only contribute to muddy water as well.

Another was a broken axles on a rig with 37' MTR's, Atlas 4.3, 4.88 gears and an auto during a rock crawling competition.

The last that I am aware of was with 33 inch tires on a Jeep that was taken airborne more then a couple of feet, resulting in a bent Super 35 axle on the passenger side.

What I find incredibly interesting is that prior to the move to the Detroit Locker, and/or the Ox Locker there where many reported problems, of all types with this set-up and the original locker this kit came with. Yet afterwards, so few.

I have not formed any conclusion on this, but I am temped to!

There have been no reports of broken R&P's either since the Detroit or Ox Locker.

I do know that the vendors have volunteered that a handful of Detroit's (3) have been returned and replaced under warrantee. But I have not found those Jeeper's myself to ask any questions as to why or what happened. I have zero information on any Ox Lockers breaking with the Super 35 set-up.

I also have been told from the manufactures that 5 axles have been replaced under warrantee. Five is obviously more then the 3 I am aware of, so obviously I don't have all the information either.

If and when (I have no doubt there are others) I hear of any other first hand accounts of problems with the Super 35 I will be happy to report those as well as an accurate and factual accounting. Not the Arthur Anderson / Enron type nor the type that comes from manufactures and distributors. (I have to admit, there report higher and should get a tip of my hat.)

While all the contributing factors to success of this set-up are not known, I believe that gathering the contribution factors of "failures" with this set-up is possible and valuable and can be supported factually.

Hey bigdude;

I tried that short and concise stuff in my original question. Obviously I was ineffective.

But yes you're right!

I do have a tendency to be a bit verbose!

I need to work on that.

Constantly!

Frank

H8monday

03-20-2002, 10:41 AM

I think you should let me drive the rig with the Super D35 Kit, so we can really get to the "Cream of wheat". You can drive my rig behind, so we can get home afterwards. :D

Frank,
You certainly do, express your opinions in a clear and concise, manner.
Were you on the "Debate Team" durring your school years?

I agree with your, conjecture, on how myth, and/or popular opinions can quickly be etablished as fact.

I heard the entire gammot of reasons, why I shouldnt, run the 8.8 axle, when I installed it in my 1st Jeep over 5 years ago.
I spent years enjoying the reliability of that axle, and the bennefits of disc brakes, while at the same time, slowly debunking the myth that it was weak, and/or the C clips would fall off/or fail, that you couldnt drive on it if your broke a shaft, and even, that the axle was responsible for overpopulation in China, and pestolence around the world.

The 8.8 is still disregaurded in the majoor off road rags, as a poor swap,...but anyone who has ran one , knows they are a very tough axle, and extremely reliable.

I also dont run a D60 up front, as many on this board would advocate. I have chosen to continue to establish just how much abuse, a D44 and high strength axle shafts/CTM joints, can actualy withstand. You should have seen my eyes light up, when Jack graef, of CTM, told me (the night before a competition),......Go ahead, use your 300HP, just try and break them. I think the opinions of the D44, as a reliable front axle, have greatly changed since that fatefull evening 6 months ago.

But I digress as to not muddy the waters.

So you can see, that I certainly should, appreciate your endeavors, to (as you say), get to the "Wheat", of the facts..... but,...

Lemme know when I can drive that D35, so we can delve up to our elbows into the "Wheat", I promise to be "as gentle as a cotton diaper, on babies butt", and Ill be no harder than I am on a daily basis with my own gear. :D

Recurve

03-20-2002, 10:57 AM

Yeah, what were those aeronautical engineers at Oxtrax thinking when they decided to build a custom Ox for use in a D35. Were they stupid or what?:flipoff2:

RCKRATZ

03-20-2002, 11:03 AM

some men you just can't reach:eek:

Frank......in your "studies" why don't you also find out how many people have swapped out the 35 because of problems with the tubes or with the r&p (regardless of super or not), because the SUPER KIT DOES NOT UPGRADE THESE PARTS. Either you really like your 35 or your head is thicker then a brick wall

Daless2

03-20-2002, 11:41 AM

Hello Mr. H8,

I have to say, I walked right into that "cream of wheat" comment!

Na, no debate team here.

I am nothing more then a somewhat old, retired U.S Marine Officer, and that I am sure is the driving factor behind my need for clarity and factuality. I have found it helpful in trying to keep people alive in a different lifetime.

NO NO you can't drive my Jeep!

Are you Nuts!

My Mom many have raised an idiot at times, but not a total fool!!! You are far too motivated to find a way to break it!

Besides, if my Jeep needs a driver upgrade my wife and I switch seats!

How 'bout you drive yours, and I will follow you and see if I can go the same places without breaking anything. Then, if I do, you can strap me, say "I told you so", hand me a beer and help me do a trail repair!

That's reasonable isn't it?

I mean after all, the objective isn't to break the Jeep but rather get over the obstacle without breaking it! or holding everyone else up too much in the process!

(OK OK, I'll admit it. I have one more objective, to never be so brave as to roll my Jeep either! (Been there, done that,and definitely didn't like it.))

Besides, with the 300 HP you have in your Jeep I would certainly get in trouble.

Over the years I have had the pleasure of wheeling all over the world, in all types of rigs and all types of terrain. Sometimes as a driver, other times as a spotter, and still other times as a mechanic.

While I can't say I have done anything close to everything, I have wheeled on all the continents, including Antarctica, and a few island so big they should be called continents.

But what I think I know probably wouldn't fill a thimble compared to many others.

I just enjoy the hobby as much as I can and hopefully add some value for others at times too.

I have a set of ZJ rear disc's sitting on my shop bench ready to go on. Guess you could say it's my way of helping my Super 35 grow up to be more like your old 8.8

If nothing else I figure it's an improvement to my Jeep's immune system to better be able to fight off that dreaded C-clip disease should it occur unexpectedly.

My wife and I are indeed planning a trip out west in late April. It's not in concrete yet, but if it works out, perhaps we could do some of this follow the leader wheeling on your trails. I'll even bring the beer for the after trail war stories.

Frank

H8monday

03-20-2002, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Recurve
Yeah, what were those aeronautical engineers at Oxtrax thinking when they decided to build a custom Ox for use in a D35. Were they stupid or what?:flipoff2:

They were thinking if they build it, the uneducated, and easily influenced reeaders of off road rags across the country, would buy them up like kids in a candy store.

(No offense intended, Frank)

LAME

03-20-2002, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by H8monday

They were thinking if they build it, the uneducated, and easily influenced reeaders of off road rags across the country, would by them up like kids in a candy store.

Mostly because it comes with a cool diff cover:D

Jakesteramalamajama

03-20-2002, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Lame

Mostly because it comes with a cool diff cover:D

..and how cool that cover would look with their chrome dubs and fart pipe while they're cruisin tha mall picken up chix... ;)

LAME

03-20-2002, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama

..and how cool that cover would look with their chrome dubs and fart pipe while they're cruisin tha mall picken up chix... ;)

Mad tite, YO!

:flipoff2:

Jakesteramalamajama

03-21-2002, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by Lame

Mad tite, YO!

:flipoff2:

Word to ya muthah.

Aight.

:flipoff2:

pigpen62

03-22-2002, 02:03 PM

LMFAO,

Frank,
I hear what you are saying but you just have no clue. I'd like to say more but whats the point. Every time you posted I think we all got a little more stupid.

GoodLuck!

Daless2

03-22-2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by pigpen62
LMFAO,

Frank,

Every time you posted I think we all got a little more stupid.

GoodLuck!

Hi pigpen62,

How are you this evening?

I have to admit there must be something to your claim that I have no clue.

I'm sitting here scratching my head, trying to figure this one out.

I'm at a total loss!

How can something I say have the effect on you, that you described in your post?????

On me, sure! I can maybe buy that!

But on You?

On Others?

I have been known to open mouth and insert foot.

Heck, on occasions I have even been know to open mouth farther and insert the other foot too!

But what you describe is truly baffling!

If True this is something I would like to understand more of.

Talk about powerful! WOW!!!

Thanks for your well wishes my friend. And for being a good hearted straight man.

This one was just too good to pass up! :)

Frank

Daless2

03-24-2002, 06:00 PM

Some additional TJ Factory Axle Measurements D-35c / D44

Hi Folks,

About 6 weeks ago I posted info on the axle tube diameter and wall thickness for the factory TJ D-35-c and TJ D-44, as measured by myself and a bunch of other folks.

Since then I have had several requests to see if I could pull together data on the tube lengths. Today I was finally able to get to this.

Here is a limited amount of information I have.

How Measured

Here is how the length measurements where taken using a standard measuring tape. All measurements where taken down to 1/16 of an inch.

Each tube, drivers side and passenger side were measured, from the inside face of the axle to brake backing plate flange, to the point where the axle tube first enters the cast part of the pumpkin.

The overall length of the axle was measure from the inside face of the axle to brake plate flange to the other inner side flange.

The width of the pumpkin was calculated by subtracting both axle lengths from the overall axle length.

http://home.att.net/~email.id/tube.jpg

Axle Lengths

http://home.att.net/~email.id/tubelength.jpg

I find it interesting that the D-35 Cast Pumpkin appears to be on inch wider then the D-44.

I find it also interesting that the long tube on the D-35 is on the Driver side, and on the D-44 the long tube is on the Passenger side.

If anyone else would like to make these measurement and send the data to me I will add it to the table. Please send to Email.id@worldnet.att.net

Here is the original tube diameter and thickness data.

http://home.att.net/~email.id/Dana.jpg

One additional size difference (other then the stock axles themselves) can be found in the Ring Gear Diameters used in these axles.

Per Factory Service Manual.

TJ D-35c Ring Gear Diameter = 7.62 Inches

TJ D-44 Ring Gear Diameter = 8.50 Inches

Frank

bignslow

03-25-2002, 10:24 AM

on the 35 you need to take into thought that the 35 tapers down when entering the pumpkin.

I owned a super 35 with a lockright. I beat the snot out of it. Sold it cause I knew that the 35 was just gonna nickle and dime me to death.. this upgrade/that upgrade, and so on.. I went out and got a 44 with stock shafts and tried to break it. I ended up twisting my rear driveshaft...

I would not have tried to hammer on the 35 like I did the 44 just cause I would have bent the housing, then in turn the axle would have broke. I have seen a 35 housing so badly bent that you couldn't get the axle out of it because of the bind. it flexes to much...

POSTER INSERTED A DISRESPECTULL STATEMENT TO FORMER ARMED SERVICES PERSONELL HERE. NOT WHAT I OR MANY OTHERS CARE TO SEE. 'NUFF SAID.:(

H8monday

03-25-2002, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by bignslow

PS and don't try to earn respect by saying your a retired USMC officer.. that don't impress me.

It sure the hell impresses me, when someone devotes thier life to helping defend our country.

What doesnt impress me is some newbie comming in and acting like he knows everything because he twisted a stock driveline with a stock D44, and then mouthing off to a veteran of the corp, to try to gain some credibility.
Now thats fawkin gay!

And no I wasnt in the corp, I spent 4 years, in the ring, beating the hell out of leathernecks for the Navy. It was a very rewarding job.

bigdude

03-25-2002, 01:05 PM

What doesnt impress me is some newbie comming in and acting like he knows everything because he twisted a stock driveline with a stock D44, and then mouthing off to a veteran of the corp, to try to gain some credibility.
Now thats fawkin gay!

DAYUMMMMM:eek:

I bet that one stung like a SOB

SMACK!

Daless2

03-26-2002, 05:13 AM

Hi bignslow,

Thank you for your comments.

I was as surprised as anyone to see that the D-35 differential cast housing is actually wider then the D-44, as it pertains to those that come from the factory on the TJ.

While I do not have any measurements on the housing other then this, there is no doubt the overall mass of the D-44 cast housing is larger and certainly more beefy then the D-35.

In your post you mentioned the following:

"on the 35 you need to take into thought that the 35 tapers down when entering the pumpkin."

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.

Do you mean that the D-35 tubes are machined down to fit into the cast housing? Or that the Cast Housing itself tapers down?

I do know it is often stated as fact that the D-35 axle tubes are machined down to a smaller outside diameter for fitment to the differential casting, BUT this simply IS NOT TRUE.

I do not however know about the thickness, taper or diameter of the housing casting where the axle tubes are actually pressed and welded into the casting itself.

As a result of your statement I am currently efforting to determine the outside diameter of the casting at the closest point to where the axle tubes are pressed into the casting.

Currently I have a handful of these measurement, but I am in need of a few more.

If yours is a TJ Factory D-44 Axle would you care to measure it and get back to me? email.id@worldnet.att.net

Here is what I am looking for.

http://home.att.net/~email.id/tube2.jpg

I have heard of more then a few problems with the Super 35 and the original lockright locker.

I take it from your comments you didn't actually have any of these problems, but elected to upgraded to a D-44 because your KNEW (Predictive) you would have.

"I would not have tried to hammer on the 35 like I did the 44 just cause I would have bent the housing, then in turn the axle would have broke. I have seen a 35 housing so badly bent that you couldn't get the axle out of it because of the bind. it flexes to much... "

Good for you. I am sure you will be happy with it.

I see you are moving from NC to PA. Where about? Anywhere near Paragon?

If so you owe it to yourself to get out there and wheel some. I am sure you will find it a great experience.

If you are looking to make a contact up that way for Paragon and other Jeep'n you might want to get a hold of the folks at the Blue Mountain Jeeper Alliance at http://www.bmja.org/

Perhaps I will see you there sometime.

Have a great day,

Frank

1TONTJ

03-26-2002, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama

..and how cool that cover would look with their chrome dubs and fart pipe while they're cruisin tha mall picken up chix... ;)

Chrome dubs are wheels right? Where did they get the word "dubs" from? Just curious - no 'Hoods up here :D

Phil

Welby

03-26-2002, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by 1TONTJ

Chrome dubs are wheels right? Where did they get the word "dubs" from? Just curious - no 'Hoods up here :D

Phil

Dubs is slang for double....a.k.a. 20" wheels....

Not sure why I know this, 'cause I'm the whitest of whiteys :D

badassjeepguy

03-26-2002, 07:37 AM

geeeeze, one hell of a long thread for a 35 axle ? :rolleyes: running 35 inch tires i grenaded 3 ring and pinions and one shaft, that was on a dana 44! so even if it is as strong as a 44 (not) then it still aint strong enough

RCKRATZ

03-26-2002, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by badassjeepguy
geeeeze, one hell of a long thread for a 35 axle ? :rolleyes: running 35 inch tires i grenaded 3 ring and pinions and one shaft, that was on a dana 44! so even if it is as strong as a 44 (not) then it still aint strong enough

But that has all been solved with the SUPER KIT.......or at least according to Frank it has:rolleyes:

OverTech

03-26-2002, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by RCKRATZ
But that has all been solved with the SUPER KIT.......or at least according to Frank it has:rolleyes:

Where did he say that?

Dave

RCKRATZ

03-26-2002, 10:08 AM

don't think he said it anywhere, but it has been implied throughout the thread;)

1TONTJ

03-26-2002, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by RCKRATZ

But that has all been solved with the SUPER KIT.......or at least according to Frank it has:rolleyes:

With helpful comments like that, I assume your sig line is some kind of ironic joke? :rolleyes:

Phil

RCKRATZ

03-26-2002, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Daless2
In actuality I have not been able to find a single Jeeper who has had a problem of any kind with a D-35 when the Super 35 Kit was installed with either the Detroit Locker or the Ox Locker. (Other then the two I have already shared.)

I'm not trying to start anything ONETON, I just think that this thread is absolutely ridiculous. I laugh everytime I see this damn thing back at the top. My point has been that there is a time and a place for a Dana 35, and in a hardcore rockcrawler it is not. If you want to run it, go ahead I could care less, but the fact of the matter is that I would not run it on my jeep end of story.:flipoff2:

1TONTJ

03-26-2002, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by RCKRATZ

I'm not trying to start anything ONETON, I just think that this thread is absolutely ridiculous. I laugh everytime I see this damn thing back at the top. My point has been that there is a time and a place for a Dana 35, and in a hardcore rockcrawler it is not. If you want to run it, go ahead I could care less, but the fact of the matter is that I would not run it on my jeep end of story.:flipoff2:

Not saying I want to run it either. I've got a 14 bolt with the same clearance as a stock D44 ;)

Just wishing we really could all get along sometimes :)

I do love this board for the tech stuff though...

Thanks,
Phil

Daless2

03-26-2002, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by RCKRATZ
some men you just can't reach:eek:

Frank......in your "studies" why don't you also find out how many people have swapped out the 35 because of problems with the tubes or with the r&p (regardless of super or not), because the SUPER KIT DOES NOT UPGRADE THESE PARTS. Either you really like your 35 or your head is thicker then a brick wall

Hi RCKRATZ,

Generally I don't reply to posts if I don't think I have any value to add to a discussion or a question. And while I can't say I have anything to address your questions directly, perhaps you will find some value in this information.

The intent of this effort is not to convince anyone that a D-35 axle (Super 35 or otherwise) is good or not good, or as good as anything else.

The original intent was to find out who had broken a Super 35 Axle. It has since evolved into an effort to gather and distribute other factual information.

I find that sometimes when factual information comes out it dispelles some common mis-stated beliefs which are represented as fact. And other times the facts simply reaffirm what are common beliefs.

Regardless of which effect there is I don't control either. I just dig for the information.

No need to go into all of the anomalies right now, (We can if you want to?) but a new one that just came to light this morning that might very well be profound. (At least to me it is.)

If you do the math one will find that The Pinion Gear for a Dana 35 with 4.10 gears is exactly the same size as the Pinion Gear for a D-44 with 4.56 gears.

When I looked at this for other common gear ratios it pretty much holds true that bumping down one gear ratio size between the D-35 and the D-44 results in almost identical physical pinion gear sizes.

Take a look at this chart.

http://home.att.net/~email.id/pinion.jpg

I am thinking there are a couple of notable items here. What do you think?

1. Given equal Gear Ratios the Pinion Gear for the D-35 is a constant 10.35% smaller then the Pinion Gear in the D-44, yet the physical size difference will vary by gear ratio from as much as 0.25 inches to as little as 0.18 inches in diameter.

2. Pinion Gears appear to be very close "to the same size diameter" if one is willing to give up "one gear ratio size" in the D-35 vs. the D-44.

3. If someone is willing to give up "One Gear Ratio Size" (in the D-35), physics states less torque stress will be communicated between the Ring and Pinion gears.
(Same size pinion gear but a smaller gear ratio, 4.10 vs. 4.56) (Obviously you would be giving up the benefits of the 4.56 gears as well.)

What would be the effects of this? I do not know.

I would speculate at least the Pinion Gear would have a higher likelihood of surviving. The same could also be said for giving up one gear ration in a D-44 as well, as the pinion gear would be larger in diameter.

I guess I never realized just how close in size of the Pinion Gears are in size between the D-44 and the D-35.

And I never would have thought they would be as close, if not identical in size with just one gear ratio difference.

Did you?

Maybe the pinion in a D-35 isn't that small after all in relationship to the D-44 Pinion.

But I think people can look at the numbers and reach their own conclusions.

I learned something today. Hope it has some value for you as well.

This is a good day! Life is Good!

Frank

Edited to add this additional information:

While I do not know the physical size of the Pinion Gear Shafts, I do know the D-44 Pinion Gear shaft is larger in diameter then that found on the D-35.

JMyerz

03-26-2002, 12:46 PM

My head hurts from this discussion going round and round and really achieving nothing more than stating whats been known for a very long time.

Every axle can be broken depending on trail, tires, driving style.

One needs to figure out how hard core the trails he runs actually is. Look around on the trails, see whats breaking whats not. Take engine, tire size, etc into account.

The Super 35? Yea, its like getting your turd chromed for a lot of us. If you really think about its a perfect solution for bolt on weekend warriors that don't have the time, money, or knowledge to swap in a larger axle.

Do what makes sense in your siutation. Around here the D44 can be seen as weak, but you have to wade through all the bullshit on the internet get the facts and decide whats best for you after you gather all you information.

Personally, I'm swapping in a D44. Its only going to cost $200 to get it in w/ gears and it should be all I need.

Of course I'll still carry a spare shaft.:flipoff2:

-Justin

Mr.RatBastard

03-26-2002, 12:59 PM

I think this is a riddle and I finally figured the damn thing out.
If the engineers that built the 35 had spent this much time on it ,The dana 35 would indeed be the ultimate rear available.:laughing:

aaronlosey

03-26-2002, 06:17 PM

ok, i'm going to have to report back on this thread in awhile.

i have a yj that is going to get 37 mtrs with a superior kit in the back. i actually like my dana 35, even though i have broken and seen broken axle shafts on it. its a really light weight gutted yj though. i might even just have to shave the diff for some clearance:flipoff2: . now, remember i'm only doing this for two reasons, i'm getting the kit for next to nothing, and i make 4wheeling videos and sell them, so if i'm gonna break it, everybody gets to see. we already have some rigs with 4 wheel steering and 2.5 ton axles at our shop that weigh in at 6000 lbs, i'm going to take this project in the exact other direction. besides, we are running out of trailers that will fit 80+ inch wide rigs on.

oh, and i'm not going to use a c-clip one though.

aaronlosey

03-26-2002, 06:19 PM

by the way, can you believe they warranty the shafts, lockers, ring and pinion? they make it almost like a dare!!

mountain bronco

03-26-2002, 10:21 PM

What a friggin circus!!!

Frank, thanks for the research. I'll catch the rest of it in the next collectors issue of the Journal of Obsessive and yet Compulsive.

A 4 liter V8 eater

03-26-2002, 11:12 PM

All those posts about how people with the super 35 wheel and where they wheel are killing me. Try Tellico throttle down. It didn't break. There is no question to whether I was throttle down or not, I got videos to prove it.
I'm not gonna lie, I was sckeptical at first. Needless to say, I'm not anymore. It's the one thing that hasn't broken.
Many people here seem to use little reasoning. kinda like the number 44 is higher than 35 so every component must be better. Not true. The key breakage concerns are in the housing and the R&P. Well the TJ 35 housing simply put is the same strength as the TJ 44. As for R&P, yeah the diameter is smaller affect leverage on the teeth, but the tooth contact area is the same. The reason for this is the fact that the pinion on the 35 is lower than that of the 44. Kinda like the 9", just not as big or extreme. Also to the suprise of many, the pinion shaft diameter is larger on the 35, although the area where the yoke attaches is shorter, yet still plenty strong enough. One might ask why dana would do this. The truth is that they didn't, AMC did, dana produced the design under contract until AMC went out of business. At that point Dana purchased the design. The carrier is also an issue, but the detroit or the ox lockers that come with the kit now completely take care of that issue.
If you already have the gears for a dana 35, the super 35 is definitly a better value considering it it comes with a locker and stronger than D44 shafts. If you get a D44 for free you still have to buy gears and a lockers which cost $$. Then you have to come up with brackets. The whole width thing is also a pain in the ass unless you find one out of a TJ. Same problems with an 8.8. The advantage of an 8.8 is that it is definatley stronger, the right width, and has disc's to boot. Glad you guy's have the money to do all these $$$ upgrades. I'm poor though, and at this point I haven't been presented with any reason to swap out my super 35. The one definite advantage I have over all the 44 owners, 8.8 owners, and shaved 60 owners is clearance. Not too much to brag about but I have them all beat.

A 4 liter V8 eater

03-26-2002, 11:41 PM

my last post I made a statement on pinion shaft diameter. After I posted, I reread daless's posts on the pinions and I read that at the bottom he says that the pinion shaft diameter on the 44 is larger. On the contrary in my post I say the 35 is larger. I got my information from Richmond gear's website where the posted pinion shaft diameter for the D44 and the D30 are the same. At the same time I have both a D30 pinion and a D35 pinion in my room and the D35 pinion is obviously larger than the D30. So, if richmond gear's site is correct and I read it correctly than I am right , If not than I'm sorry.

One recent event that made me think of pinion shaft diameter between the two was when the member cornfedred broke his front 44 pinion in half in a whole that I've easily climbed out of.

Jakesteramalamajama

03-27-2002, 04:36 AM

Perhaps this thread should be re-titled:

"The neverending justify your purchase of a Super 35 thread"

...or something like that. Mo could even give it a sticky. It isn't like it's left the first page yet.

There. That oughtta piss those newbies off...

:flipoff2:
Jake

bigdude

03-27-2002, 05:12 AM

"The neverending justify your purchase of a Super 35 thread"

There. That oughtta piss those newbies off...

Bawahahahahahahaha, but we can't laugh because he gets it "throttle down"

bawahahahahaha

95% of the time the guys who talk the most shit, always do the least

There is no question to whether I was throttle down or not, I got videos to prove it.

No one cares Newbie, just let this thread die already

(whoops I just fawked that up :flipoff2: )

1TONTJ

03-27-2002, 05:14 AM

Pinion SHAFT diameters? Who cares? They brake at the pinion teeth, not the shaft (at least the ones I have broken and seen broken).

JMHO,
Phil
This thread is amusing anyway. I am drawn to continue reading it much like people are drawn to rubbernecking at a bad accident :D

Jakesteramalamajama

03-27-2002, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
This thread is amusing anyway. I am drawn to continue reading it much like people are drawn to rubbernecking at a bad accident :D

Yeah. Where I'm from they call that MORBID CURIOSITY. :D

OverTech

03-27-2002, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
Pinion SHAFT diameters? Who cares? They brake at the pinion teeth, not the shaft (at least the ones I have broken and seen broken).

Don't worry dude. If you break that Corp 14 next month, I'll tow you back to camp. It's OK, I have a Super35... :D :flipoff2: :D

Dave

1TONTJ

03-27-2002, 06:14 AM

I'm pretty sure the 10.5" FF gears will hold up ;)

It was those wimpy D44 gear-sets that I broke :flipoff2:

Phil

badassjeepguy

03-27-2002, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
I'm pretty sure the 10.5" FF gears will hold up ;)

It was those wimpy D44 gear-sets that I broke :flipoff2:

Phil

i concur........... and yes you dont typically break the shaft, you break the pinion, as i di 3 times on a dana 44

Dan-H

03-27-2002, 09:37 AM

This thread doesn't need a sticky. In less than 2 weeks it has become the #6 most viewed thread since the new BB software was installed :eek:

rank/# of views
#1/ 8329 --- Jeepers Unite show your rigs here !!
#2/ 6827 --- Newbie's check in here for introduction
#3/ 4858 --- Sticky: Jeep Talk Mission Statement (READ THIS NEWBIES)
#4/ 3867 --- Coilover TJ - obligatory ramp pics
#5/ 2634 --- NEWBIES: post your best driveway shot here
#6/ 2464 --- Who Has Broken a Super 35 Axle Installed on THEIR OWN JEEP????

bigdude

03-27-2002, 09:48 AM

In less than 2 weeks it has become the #6 most viewed thread since the new BB software was installed

And how many of those views are from JU lurkers who heard of the indisputable evidence on the PBB that a super 35 kit is indestructable :rolleyes:

Mr.RatBastard

03-27-2002, 09:53 AM

Make it a sticky....this is important stuff
.
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BAWAHAHAHAHAH !:laughing:
p.s. How do poor people buy a super 35 kit....8.8 is cheaper w/a spool

Weezer

03-27-2002, 10:09 AM

please just let this thread die. Run it till you break it and then upgrade

Welby

03-27-2002, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Weezer
please just let this thread die. Run it till you break it and then upgrade

I know I just brought it BTT again ( :rolleyes: ), but I agree, just let this stupid fawkin' thread die the death it deserves.... :mad3:

Fawk!!!

H8monday

03-27-2002, 10:24 AM

This thread is like a horrible train wreck, you dont want to look, but the morbid curiousity makes you take another peak.
Please someone make it go away.:crybaby2:

Daless2

03-27-2002, 10:27 AM

For those who may be interested I wish to correct a previous statement I have made.

While I do not know the physical size of the Pinion Gear Shafts, I do know the D-44 Pinion Gear shaft is larger in diameter then that found on the D-35.

This was a misstatement on my part. (Probably cause by my tendency to lean toward a group think mentality.) :) This statement is inaccurate based on two measurement I just made in my shop.

The Pinion Shaft for the TJ D-35 measures 1.410 Inches in Diameter.

The Pinion Shaft for the TJ D-44 measures 1.376 Inches in Diameter.

If anyone else has easy access to either pinions and can put a micrometer on the rear bearring surface it would validate the measurements I just took.

Have a great day folks,

Frank

bigdude

03-27-2002, 10:36 AM

I say it gets deleted....

Then Daless2 loses 99% of his posts:flipoff2:

(fawk, BTT with this reply)

Daless2

03-27-2002, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by bigdude
I say it gets deleted....

Then Daless2 loses 99% of his posts:flipoff2:

(fawk, BTT with this reply)

Hi bigdude,

Forgive the correction but I know you would want to be accurate and factual.

If this thread is deleted I would loose only 62% of my posts on this board

That is if you calculate it prior to this post.

If you care to calculate it after this post it would be more; something like 62.5%. (rounded.)

Would you like me to share the numbers and how I performed the calculation with you? Let me know!

I do have a question though??????

Are the number of posts folks have, in and of themselves, something that should be important to me? What I mean is; Is this something I should be in awe of and I just don't know it?

Please feel free to correct me!

I think they give Plus "One" post counts for that too!

Have a great day.

Frank

PS. I think someone once said "If you let people flap their lips long enough they eventually give something that is just too good to pass up!"

Oh, wait, that was Me! :)

03-27-2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Daless2

I do have a question though??????

Are the number of posts folks have, in and of themselves, something that should be important to me? What I mean is; Is this something I should be in awe of and I just don't know it?

Nope. I could care less how much you post. It's all about the quality.

I have a huge amount of respect for the work you're doing here to determine the strength of teh Super 35 kit.

I also respectfully disagree with your findings. :flipoff2:

It's all good. This will most likely NOT be deleted. It's a valid technical discussion.

I'm just counting on you to come back and report when you do break something on that rear end... mmmmkay?

bigdude

03-27-2002, 11:17 AM

Are the number of posts folks have, in and of themselves, something that should be important to me? What I mean is; Is this something I should be in awe of and I just don't know it?

Nope, I was just blowing you shit, then you got mathematic on me (I didn't bother to crunch numbers, I do enough of that at work), and now I got one more post just like you said:D

Man you're always right, even about the super 35 being a quality upgrade:rolleyes: (rolleyes=sarcasm, strictly my opinion of course so don't bother to get factual on me also:flipoff2:)

Daless2

03-27-2002, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by bigdude

Nope, I was just blowing you shit, then you got mathematic on me (I didn't bother to crunch numbers, I do enough of that at work), and now I got one more post just like you said:D

Man you're always right, even about the super 35 being a quality upgrade:rolleyes: (rolleyes=sarcasm, strictly my opinion of course so don't bother to get factual on me also:flipoff2:)

Thanks for being a good sport about things Bigdude,

Frank

Daless2

03-27-2002, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Mo

Nope. I could care less how much you post. It's all about the quality.

I have a huge amount of respect for the work you're doing here to determine the strength of teh Super 35 kit.

I also respectfully disagree with your findings. :flipoff2:

It's all good. This will most likely NOT be deleted. It's a valid technical discussion.

I'm just counting on you to come back and report when you do break something on that rear end... mmmmkay?

Hi Mo,

Thank you for your comments and support.

Everyone has my word, if, or perhaps when would be more appropriate, I break a part on mine you will hear about it in finite detail! :)

I do not plan to continue this thread unless anyone has additional, related information to share about the Super 35 breakage or any measurements pertaining to the D-35 axle that do not match up with those already shared.

I will close it with the final count I have on the Super 35's.

Of 362 people (27 of which have emailed me from this board) who tell me they have the Super 35 with either the Detroit or Ox Locker set-up installed on their own Jeeps:

Three (3) have had problems with the axles. One bent, Two Broken.

Not one (of the 362) has claimed to have any R&P problems of any kind.

No one has reported any other problems accept for 5 folks having difficulty with the Ox Cable going out of adjustment.

That's all I have folks. The details of those that have had problems are in this thread.

It has been interesting. Thanks for your support in this effort.

If and when I hear of any others having problems I most certainly will post the information.

Frank

jp junkie

03-27-2002, 12:42 PM

Trying to get Daless2 to agree with you is impossible. You have a better chance of making dump bump with a spring over cj5 with severe axle wrap and a 4 banger.:flipoff2:

Steve N

03-29-2002, 07:00 PM

:rolleyes: I can't believe we can talk this much about this axle. :rolleyes:

OK here's my thoughts on a detroit setup (in my example YJ) diff.

1) While if you upgrade to the "super" kit you still have an axle housing that is likely to bend, then brake when subject to hammering. Or...

2) You could buy all the "super" regalia from Superior's retail store AKA Drivetrain Direct for some fairly healthy $ 1214.00 to help with the not "supered" 35's trub's. Or...

3) Again from Retail div. of Superior you could buy a std issue non "super" 44 with std sized tubes, and drums for $1990.00 (YJ ) Or....

4) You could get all "super" with the 44 including discs. $2995.00 (YJ). Or....

5) If you wheel like some of us on this board you could buy a man sized axle. Tera 60 RC including discs again from D.T.D. for $3600 or....

6) You could get a used man sized axle Dana 60 or bigger for cheap have it built or do it yourself for less than the cost of the "super" 35 kit. Really cheap for a 14 bolt. Sure for that price you may have to make sure you pull one from a van or another 35 spline vehicle, live with huge ass drums, and do some of your own work (like dissembly/driving around/parts ordering) but it can be done. You can even pay to have the gears setup for that.

If you are never going to put more than 33" tires and go easy, or 35's and go VERY easy. Then the 35's fine. So's JU As far as a 35, and JU goes it's all good but not for me. 'Nuff said

:flipoff2:

One thing I didn't clarify by the cost of a "super" kit I'm talking about the extra "super" stiffener thingie too . Except in #1

WideJ

03-29-2002, 08:12 PM

TOP

HAHAHA

:flipoff2:

Beast40

03-30-2002, 10:17 AM

Rubicon Express

TDW

03-31-2002, 10:34 AM

Nice!! My asking price on the tj d35 sitting on my garage floor just went from $100 to $500 :flipoff2: Or maybe I will just scrap my 8.8 and swap the 35 back in. :D

oh yeah, TOP :flipoff2:

Qbert

03-31-2002, 12:25 PM

Had one brake the ring gear 2 times the second time the gears shot out of the dif cover, very embarrassing considering it was the first time I was whit this crowd. Broke the yoke once. Never broke the axles, my friend Loyd Sumpther however did. He was climbing a not so steep side hill and it snapped at the splines, he almost rolled the Jeep whit tree girls in it, after that in went the 9 in mine and no more broken parts. He sold his after the scare and $725 towing and recovery fee, because we could not flat tow it and the parts were not available for another week tops.

My take on it is that its kind of like the first time you lift the Jeep, it seem enough and very bad as, then in a couple off months you whish you would have done the SOA and bigger tires for the extra $200, I have this habit of learning from others mistakes and problems, And like some of the guys said not to many here use them so we could not really say. It’s kind of like asking who likes salad burgers at a beef-eating contest.

Daless2

03-31-2002, 03:10 PM

I thought this thread was going to die on the vine, but apparently there is still some interest in it. I am glad I stopped back. Just picked up a report of two additional breakages with the Super 35 Kit.

Hi Dave - Qbert, and THANK YOU for ANSWERING my Question.

Did you have the Detroit Locker or the Ox Locker?

If so I will must certainly add your ring gear breakage to the list of folks who have said they have had problems with the Super 35 Kit. Your experience would clearly be qualified.

Please note:

I am not tracking at all, any Super 35 kits installed with the Lockrite Locker. There are many known documented failures with that locker which I can not explain when compared to the Detroit or Ox lockers

I will assume for the time being both of these problems occurred with the Detroit or Ox Lockers. Please correct me on this if the assumption is incorrect.

Can you provide more details as to how your Jeep was set up? Tires? Gears? And what type of wheeling you generally do and were doing when you experienced the breakage.

To date I have not counted as a breakage any that have not been stated by the Jeeper him/herself.

In most cases these descriptions of breakage are so ill defined or happened to someone's friend, ex wife, co-worker's brother-in-law while mowing the lawn!...... you get the picture.

However, in your description of your friend breaking a Super 35 axle I think most people would agree this one should be counted too.

So "Count On It!" (If Detroit or Ox Lockers.)

Any chance you can supply additional information on his set-up as well?

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to share these events. This is exactly what I have been looking for.

Current Count on Super 35 Kit problems of all types:

Please note:

While I have included two new breakage reports on the Super 35 kit, these are subject to being removed if they occurred with the old lockrite locker.

(Why? Because this is how I am tracking this. :) I see no value in tracking Lockrite super 35's. There are ample examples of problems with this set-up.)

Of 424 people (39 of which have emailed me from this board, POR) who tell me they have the Super 35 with either the Detroit or Ox Locker set-up installed on their own Jeeps:

Four (4) have had problems with the axles.

One (1) Bent
Three (3) Broken.

One (1) (of the 424) has broken two ring gears and a yoke on the same super 35 installation. I am waiting for confirmation on which locker was installed during these events.

Breakage rate based on the above counts is 1.2% of those who have reported they have the Super 35 installed on their Jeep. (with one exception.)

No one else has reported any other problems accept for 6 folks having difficulty with the Ox Cable going out of adjustment.

That's all I have folks. The details of those that have had problems are in this thread.

I will update this information once or if I have something pertinent to add.

Frank