I got the goahead from my wife last night to do a WVO conversion for my truck.

Im planning on custom fabbing an aluminum L-shaped fuel tank with provision for heat.

I plan on using these fuel solenoids so it's a true dual fuel system

http://www.greasecar.com/product_detail.cfm?prodID=10

I plan on using a temp gauge to monitor oil temp in tank #2.

I have a couple of things I have not decided on yet, and I'd like some input :D

-Heat source. I'd like to use electric heat if possible to keep the WVO at temperature. Racor sells electric in-fuel-line heaters, but i'm not sure these will get me to 180*. Anyone know of a source? Looking for 12v heating elements for the tank as well. If I have to use coolant then I will, but it doesnt appear that many have done electric heat so that interests me :D

-I'd like to work it out that the truck starts on petro-diesel, I engage the WVO system, and it automatically switches once the WVO is at temperature. Then I manually switch back to flush the system. Anyone know where I can get a temperature switch that closes when a certain temp is reached?

-I plan to pump directly from restaurant containers into my truck tank through a 10 micron filter, then run the WVO supply through another filter, probably a 5 micron unit. Anyone know where I can get a HEATED 5 micron filter, or some 12v heat tape to use on a standard filter housing?

-With my 03 common rail CTD, will I need an in-line or in-tank pump to supply WVO to the engine? Any reccomendations on a unit that is cost effective and is WVO friendly?

Im designing the tank now, but won't start fabbing until I decide what I use for heat. I will most likely end up using engine coolant becase it's easier to scrounge up parts and pieces. If I go that route Im planning on a homemade copper heat exchanger built into the bottom of the tank. The tank will be covered in armaflex with some sort of weather-resistant coating over the insulation.

Ill post updates as parts/pieces come in and as I do the conversion. Looking forward to running on grease!!

u might want to give roverhybrids a PM he does conversions like this.

DRew

The last I read about WVO on a Common rail motor, it was thought that it wasn't a good idea because of the super high rail pressures produced. Might want to give that some thought if you haven't already.

thanks for the info on roverhybrids. ill shoot him a PM. its looking more and more like I need a coolant-heated system.

i have read some of the supposed issues with the CRD style engines, but these guys: http://www.greasel.com/Vehicle.html seem to think its just fine.

of course ill do some more research before i go balls out, but from what i've seen so far the high pressures aren't a problem as long as the oil is at 180* or a little above.

check out http://www.frybrid.com

they've got what looks to be a nice controller for automatic switching.

greasecar.com also has a controller for automatic switching - though they're both pricey

If I don't start homebrewing bioD, I'm gonna do my conversion soon.

What I've thought about is a relay to control the fuel source

relay defaults to petrolD, and I can manually switch to WVO only when the ignition is in run. I'd add a turbo timer to keep the truck running for a minute after the ignition is shut down, which should be long enough to purge the fuel line.

thats how i plan to do it mo.

the fuel solenoids i linked supposedly have a default sertting, which i would of course hook up to the petro-diesel supply. that way if there are any electrical gremlins i default to the dino stuff.

those controllers are expensive. i think i could do it easily with a couple of relays and a temperature switch of some sort... i dont need the bling, i just want it to work.

using a turbo timer is a good idea too. i had an HKS timer on my last turbo car and it worked very very well. i wouldn't count on 1min being enough time at idle though, id set it for 5 at least.

If I don't start homebrewing bioD, I'm gonna do my conversion soon.

What I've thought about is a relay to control the fuel source

relay defaults to petrolD, and I can manually switch to WVO only when the ignition is in run. I'd add a turbo timer to keep the truck running for a minute after the ignition is shut down, which should be long enough to purge the fuel line.

Where are you guys planning on pluming into the fuel system?

I could be WAY off, but if I can get 20 mpg running 75 down the interstate I think it's going to take a LONG time to purge the fuel rail, fuel pump and any other lines of WVO. Of course the location of the line into the system will be critical in the time frame.

The http://www.frybrid.com/frybrid.htm unit puts WVO in right before the injection pump. Anyone know how much is in the lines thru the pump and into the injectors. I know on my CTD there are a fair amount of lines from the pump to injectors.

I'd add a turbo timer to keep the truck running for a minute after the ignition is shut down, which should be long enough to purge the fuel line.

According to Chris G. at Frybrid its ~15 or so seconds for purge, depending on where the VO enters the system.

http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1960

Here's something on WVO and the VP44 IP http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1477

This is the coolant heated filter I went with http://www.vegpower.com/order/prodpage.cfm?cat_selected=92&product_selected=240&startrow=1

Going right from the grease dumpster into the tank is not a good idea. It sould settle for a couple of days to separate out the water.


Andy

I'm planning on going right before the IP

15 seconds seems like a VERY short time. I was planning on using a minute as a starting point. My rig will be garage kept all winter (except for occasional trips up to South Dakota where it will be both outside and butt-ass cold). It will be plugged in up there, and possibly even when garaged.



What are you guys doing for a second tank? Fabbing your own, or using some sort of transfer tank in the bed?

I like the frybrid setup with a 25 gal tank underneath - but I have a hard time swallowing the $1700 or so price tag.

I've been doing a lot of reading about this lately, mainly because I've figured out it would only take me 8 wheelin' trips to pay for the greasel system, if I have figured everythin out.

Matt, I'll be calling you soon to talk about your system. I wasn't able to come down to Katemcy to your run last weekend, but I heard all about it from R&C Baer.

The first thing I'm going to do is go talk to some restaurants and make sure I can get the WVO before I plunk down the money.

I plan on having a storage tank in the bed. Part of the reason I got a LWB instead of a SWB was to have room for something like this.

I picked up a 10 gallon marine tank that I'll mount to the frame just ahead of the spring.


Andy

just one of those red plastic ones?

that could get me up and running and I could build a nice stainless one later!

Nope it's a below deck model (black), they have a return already plumbed into it. The red portable ones don't have the return.

http://www.tempoproducts.com/2004/bd_fuel_tanks1.html left column, third one from the top. OK, it's a 12 gallon, not 10.


Andy

check out http://www.frybrid.com

they've got what looks to be a nice controller for automatic switching.

greasecar.com also has a controller for automatic switching - though they're both pricey

Sure is. I was hoping to do it for alot less than $1500 (plus they want to sell me a tank that I don't need. :rolleyes: )

What happened with this? I'm in the begining stages of a bio operation. I just got 1000 gallons of storage space last week. I currently have a 01 CTD but I'm trading it in on a 03+ for the 4 doors. But I'm still worried about the injectors going bad even on bio. You get the system done? Issues?

Where are you getting 1000 gallons of reliable feed-stock?

The stuff is increasingly in demand...

Randii

Where are you getting 1000 gallons of reliable feed-stock?

The stuff is increasingly in demand...

Randii

I got 1000 gallons of STORAGE. I'm on the verge of getting a few accounts but I was scared to until I had a place to put it. I'm still looking for a 1500-2000 gallon storage tank. The 2 tanks I got are a 500 gallon dispenser with filter and pump handle and a 500 gallon poly tank that fits into the bed of a truck.

I think I can pull about 50 gallons of WVO a week. And if all my contact/leads come thru I'm going to have a ton more than that. That's what I'm scared of. Getting to much and not being able to handle it and getting a bad rap for not picking it up and the whole thing blows up in my face. :shaking:

That was pretty much my point... storage without flow is expensive.

I definitely understand that storage may be required to obtain commitments for flow, but I'm curious how many folks are vying for that WVO. A buddy in Forest Grove is part of a collective, and the only way they could get reliable flow was to contract as a service with a small restaurant chain... I'm not sure many folks will be willing to set up the infrastructure and entity to support that.

Cool that you have a 50-gallon/week supply... I just wonder how many folks drop the coin on setting up WVO or BD and don't wind up making money back. I'm certain that we'll hear from those who do, but just like 'claimed' MPG numbers, I'm a skeptic. I know the technology is there, but the actual result... I wonder.

Best of luck to all who go WVO or BD, regardless.

Randii

I have family that owns restaurants and have tons of contacts. But I was scared to get anything going until I was ready. I think there will be about 3-5 of us collecting/brewing.

03+ cummins the minimum filtration is 5 microns, Bosch suggests closer to 2 microns with std diesel fuel. locally there was B99 available from several chevrons they have since converted to B20 and B99 with a Warning sticker on several pumps specifically about newer high pressure diesel engine injection systems developing varnish on the injectors. VP, P7100 and VE pumped cummins truck dont seem to have too many issues.

pure WVO on a p7100 can varnish the pump Delivery valves over time. The CP3 and the HPCR system are very temprimental and costly to repair. anykind of WVO without a thinning agent would concern me in any Common rail truck.

WVO is getting harder and harder to get. It went from paying to have it hauled away, to getting paid for it:

Restaurant Oils of America driver caught greasy-handed
By Kris Bevill

Web exclusive posted April 16, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. CST

On the afternoon of April 1, Mark Rosenzweig, owner of San Jose Tallow, was driving home through suburban San Jose, Calif., when he noticed a pumper truck pulling into a shopping center. Rosenzweig knew the only restaurant in that center was a Burger King that has contracted for grease removal with his company. “I followed him until he pulled into the Burger King where I watched him steal the grease,” Rosenzweig said.

Rosenzweig first called the restaurant to double-check that no one else was authorized to remove grease, and then he called the police. “He had no valid DOT (Department of Transportation) sticker, no valid state of California grease pick-up sticker, no license, no nothing,” Rosenzweig said. “He was just out stealing grease.”

Rosenzweig is no stranger to grease theft. “It’s a common problem out here,” he said. “In fact I had two calls this morning. One of our tanks was emptied out over the weekend that we didn’t authorize, so there’s somebody else out there stealing. It’s happening out here with some good regularity. Ten years ago we couldn’t give this stuff away and we were charging to pick up and now all of sudden people are stealing it. It’s gone full circle.”


Article Continues After Advertisement




David Richardson, the driver of the pumper truck, was employed by Restaurant Oils of America, based in Las Vegas. ROA owner Ned Cruey told Biodiesel Magazine that the situation was just “a misunderstanding.” According to Cruey, the driver was at the location only to offer the company’s services to the manager and that’s why he produced a blank contract when the manager approached him. “He assumed it was OK to try and get some grease and it was real hard,” said Cruey. “[The collection container] was like 300 gallons and he got like 10 gallons [into the truck]. Then 14 cop cars showed up. The poor guy was traumatized.”

Cruey said their only intention was to attempt to gain some customers in that area so the company could begin routing into California. He added, that the company had been “checking into it” for a couple of weeks. Rosenzweig said the truck had been seen in other local communities in the two weeks prior to the driver’s arrest. But he argues that the driver was doing more than recruiting clients. When police stopped the truck the tank was half-full, suggesting that grease had been removed from multiple sites.

“What’s really funny is I had a hard time convincing the police department that it was a crime,” Rosenzweig said. “They had no idea that it was against the law.” He, who had to explain to the police officers what sections in the vehicle code were violated, said there needs to be a training program for law enforcement to educate them on what to look for so they will be able to spot suspicious activity near grease containers.

Rosenzweig said most grease thieves are probably “home brewers” that take the grease back to their garages to make biodiesel. However, when industrial vehicles are used for taking grease, as in this case, he assumes it’s being transported across state lines to be resold.

To prevent theft at his collection sites, Rosenzweig educates customers, encouraging them to lock their grease containers and question strange vehicles that come to collect grease. If they suspect a possible theft, he tells them to call the police. Rosenzweig also trains employees to keep an eye out for “suspiciously empty” collection containers.

So how can biodiesel producers protect against purchasing unlawfully collected feedstock? Gonzales, Calif.-based Energy Alternative Systems Inc. is one of San Jose Tallow’s biggest customers. EASI president and chief executive officer Richard Gillis said it comes down to knowing the supplier and trusting them. He personally knows Rosenzweig and has done business with his company for many years. Gillis said it’s up to producers to research the companies they do business with. “The more and more companies that get involved in this business…you know fuel is supply and demand and some companies get predatory,” Gillis said. “We’re in an area of this industry’s growth where there is some predatory buying going on as far as yellow grease and things. It’s very tough competition.”

Gillis said it’s common for his company to get calls from someone claiming they have thousands of gallons of grease to sell. “The first thing they have to do is talk to my oil and fats guy,” he said. “We want to know who they are, where they are and where they got it. If we’re uncomfortable, even a little bit, we won’t buy anything. We don’t deal with folks we’re not familiar with.”

Cruey said many of the biodiesel producers ROA does business with were “not thrilled” to read a story alleging his company was involved in grease theft. One of them called Cruey to say they didn’t want to receive any of his shipments for a few months. “He said they didn’t want to be a part of some kind of criminal conspiracy and I said ‘there’s no criminal conspiracy’,” Cruey lamented. “We wanted to do something that would be a green company…that takes what would be a waste pretty much and turn it into biodiesel.”

Cruey bailed Richardson out of jail and hired a lawyer, who Cruey said is confident the case will be dismissed. Richardson could face charges ranging from stealing inedible grease to grand theft.

Rosenzweig will continue on with his business as usual, minus some feedstock. He wasn’t allowed to retrieve the grease from ROA’s pumper truck. “It’s sitting in [ROA’s] truck at the impound I would imagine,” he said. “It’s too bad.”

CALIFORNIA
Veggie oil burners get burned by state's regulatory red tape
Fryer grease users frustrated by legal hurdles blocking way
Evan Halper, Los Angeles Times

Friday, May 9, 2008

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Dave Eck, a Half Moon Bay mechanic, had attracted a media spotlight with his fleet of vehicles fueled by used fryer grease from a local chowder house. So when Sacramento called, he figured officials wanted advice on promoting alternative fuels.

Not at all. The government rang to notify Eck that he was a tax cheat.

He was scolded for failing to get a "diesel fuel supplier's license," reporting quarterly how many gallons of grease he burns, and paying a tax on each gallon.

"All of a sudden they nailed me for a road tax," said Eck, who drives a Hummer converted to run on vegetable oil. "I said, 'Not a problem. I'll do my part. But what do I get? At least let me into the carpool lane.' "

No such luck. The state offered Eck only a potentially large fine - and not just for failing to pay taxes. He can also get in trouble for carting kitchen grease away from eateries without a license from the state Meat and Poultry Inspection Branch.

Or for not having at least $1 million in liability insurance, in case he spills some of the stuff. Or for not getting permission from the state Air Resources Board to burn fat in the first place.

Even governor owes taxes
The regulations are so burdensome that even California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, trying to set an example for Californians by driving a Hummer that burns cooking oil, has not complied. Schwarzenegger, who has said that the exhaust from his Hummer smells so much like French fries that his passengers get hunger pangs, was unaware that he was required to send Sacramento an 18-cent road tax for every gallon of kitchen oil he burned, according to spokesman Aaron McLear. After the Los Angeles Times raised the issue, McLear said the governor would pay the taxes he owed.

The governor's staff says it is working on making it easier to drive using vegetable oil without being an outlaw.

"We are very interested in making sure people who have these kinds of vehicles are able to comply as easily as possible," McLear said.

But environmentalists are frustrated.

"It is ridiculous that we live in what is presumed to be one of the greenest states in the nation, yet we have the most antiquated laws to deal with green energy," said Josh Tickell, an alternative-fuels advocate and filmmaker whose documentary "Fields of Fuel" recently won the audience award at the Sundance Film Festival.

"Everyone I know wants to do the right thing by the law," he said. "But the state is not set up to even clearly provide information to folks."

The veggie oil crowd is hardly on the radical fringe anymore. Garages report being overwhelmed with conversion business, and restaurants throughout Southern California are contending with raids on their used-grease tanks.

Advocates say more than 250,000 Americans are running their vehicles on cooking oil, with the biggest concentration in California. Drivers do it for different reasons: to protect the environment, to reduce dependence on foreign oil or to save money. Those using vegetable oil say they do so for as little as $1 a gallon, because grease yields better mileage than gasoline and about the same as diesel fuel.

Users go underground
Almost all of them are doing it underground. The state tax board has processed fewer than 70 of the required "fuel supplier" licenses, according to a spokeswoman. Most of those are for businesses selling commercial biodiesel, a more mainstream fuel that is typically mixed with as much as 80 percent petroleum.

State agencies say they have reasons for doing things the way they do.

Tax authorities say biofuel drivers need to pay for using California's roads, just like everyone else, and there is no simple way to collect from those who don't go to the gas pumps, where road taxes are normally levied.

The meat and poultry agency is worried about toxic spills. Officials with the air board are troubled by kitchen-grease emissions, especially when spewed by vintage diesel Mercedes-Benzes, the make of choice for many vegetable oil converts.

Matthew Tiffany, a 26-year-old student and environmentalist in Monrovia (Los Angeles County), tried to help about 20 veggie oil drivers go legal and found the task nearly impossible.

Tiffany, who fills his 1981 diesel Mercedes with fryer grease from a neighborhood Japanese restaurant, started a cooperative called Good Earth Grease Haulers. His mission was to bring veggie oil drivers into the mainstream.

But Good Earth Grease Haulers quickly collapsed, after Tiffany got tangled in red tape trying to help members comply with license requirements.

"They want us to follow all these rules that were set up to regulate people who transport hundreds of gallons a day," Tiffany said.

He recently appeared before a legislative committee to urge lawmakers to exempt veggie oil users from having to pay for a license after the Meat and Poultry Inspection Branch raised the cost from $75 to $300.

Enforcement is selective
State Assemblyman Doug LaMalfa, R-Richvale (Butte County), a rice farmer who is handy with car engines, expressed bewilderment at the hoops Tiffany had to jump through to get permission to transport a few gallons of used fryer grease.

"Why do you even tell anyone you are taking it?" he asked.

Tiffany reminded the assemblyman that it was required by law.

Although most drivers burning kitchen oil have managed to evade enforcement - government agencies say they have handed out few citations - those who attract attention to themselves by promoting the alternative fuel tend to hear from regulators.

Craig Reece, owner of PlantDrive in Berkeley, which sells kits to convert diesel engines to run on vegetable oil, said he got a call from state officials about paying the road tax. He has since been sending the tax forms to all his customers, but he figures only a few are actually registering with the state and keeping logs of how much oil they burn.

"A lot of my customers think this fuel should be exempt from taxes," he said. "They feel they ought to get something for the climate-change-neutral aspect of it."

Other states' exemptions
Illinois, North Carolina, Texas, Rhode Island and Indiana have exempted drivers burning kitchen grease from paying such a tax. In North Carolina, the move came at the behest of a state senator who motors around in a small car powered by soybean oil. The legislator said it wasn't paying the taxes that bothered him so much as the hours required to do the paperwork.

Terry Tamminen, an adviser to Schwarzenegger on energy and environmental policy, acknowledged that California has been slow to adapt.

"When you go through a period of change, there is always a clunkiness to the bureaucracy," he said.

But he said the state should not overlook the value of alternative-fuel pioneers.

"Our mentality is to look for the next silver bullet" to replace petroleum, Tamminen said by telephone while driving a car fueled by compressed natural gas. "But there is no silver bullet, only buckshot. We are going to need every one of these silver buckshots to be developed as best it can."

This article appeared on page B - 6 of the San Francisco Chronicle
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/09/BAB210J7BF.DTL

has any one looked into diesel-secret (http://www.dieselsecret.com/?engine=adwords!5051&keyword=%28fuel+diesel%29&match_type=&gclid=CO2S57PHopMCFSUqagodDDn9nw)

03+ cummins the minimum filtration is 5 microns, Bosch suggests closer to 2 microns with std diesel fuel. locally there was B99 available from several chevrons they have since converted to B20 and B99 with a Warning sticker on several pumps specifically about newer high pressure diesel engine injection systems developing varnish on the injectors. VP, P7100 and VE pumped cummins truck dont seem to have too many issues.

pure WVO on a p7100 can varnish the pump Delivery valves over time. The CP3 and the HPCR system are very temprimental and costly to repair. anykind of WVO without a thinning agent would concern me in any Common rail truck.

any info on 98 6.5l turbo diesel filtration specs?

has any one looked into diesel-secret (http://www.dieselsecret.com/?engine=adwords!5051&keyword=%28fuel+diesel%29&match_type=&gclid=CO2S57PHopMCFSUqagodDDn9nw)

Snake oil! Don't waste your money.

So what did happen with the OP? I am going to start buying parts for my conversion next week.

So what did happen with the OP? I am going to start buying parts for my conversion next week.

In the mean time I have a suggestion!

In the mean time I have a suggestion!

And that is???

In the mean time I have a suggestion!

And that is???


Uh...check his sig line. Looks like a scam to me, sell emergency contact cards and get free gas?

Now back to the originally scheduled programming.

Uh...check his sig line. Looks like a scam to me, sell emergency contact cards and get free gas?

Now back to the originally scheduled programming.

Multi-level marketing BS. :shaking: Gonna have to report it.

Multi-level marketing BS. :shaking: Gonna have to report it.

Nothing against the rules by having that in his sig - people do it all the time.