I'm trying to decide what gears to run in the my 14/60 combo when I swap them under my Scout. Right now my rig has 4.88's and 36" SX's. Running at 65 mph has me turning about 3250 RPM and on this last trip to the Rubicon and Holy Cross, I did about 95% of the crawling in 2nd gear/low. I would occasionally drop to 1st gear/low, that was usually to slow down or increase throttle control over a more technical obsticle. All this was done with my stock t-case gears (2.62:1). I have the 4:1 gears for the t-case that I'll soon be installing.

All I seem to hear about is people wanting 5:13's for their 14-bolt. With the 4:1 in the t-case, I'm thinking that would be way too low to be practicle. Even the 4.88's would seem to be pretty low, so I'm thinking about gonig with 4.56's. Am I nuts for even considering 4.56's??

******Shove******

If your still running the IH engine - I'd say go with the 4.56. You still need to get to the trail. If it was a trailer truck - I'd call you silly for not getting 5.13's

I'm shopping for 4.56's right now with 36" tires.

What rock have you been under? It is a trailered truck. The truck as geared with 4.88's is 81:1... low enough that with 36's I spend almost all my time in 2nd gear. When I swap in the 4:1's, that would make it 123:1 with 4.88's, with 5.13's it be 130:1 and with 4.56's it'd be 115:1.

I'm going to go ahead and call you silly just because I can. :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:

I'm trying to decide what gears to run in the my 14/60 combo when I swap them under my Scout. Right now my rig has 4.88's and 36" SX's. Running at 65 mph has me turning about 3250 RPM and on this last trip to the Rubicon and Holy Cross, I did about 95% of the crawling in 2nd gear/low. I would occasionally drop to 1st gear/low, that was usually to slow down or increase throttle control over a more technical obsticle. All this was done with my stock t-case gears (2.62:1). I have the 4:1 gears for the t-case that I'll soon be installing.

All I seem to hear about is people wanting 5:13's for their 14-bolt. With the 4:1 in the t-case, I'm thinking that would be way too low to be practicle. Even the 4.88's would seem to be pretty low, so I'm thinking about gonig with 4.56's. Am I nuts for even considering 4.56's??

Are you planning on still running the 36's? If so stay with 4:56's. I run 5:13 w/42inchers. It seems to do allright but would like lower. Thats why the Vortec 5.7, 700r and Atlas 4.3 are going in this winter. In my eyes you can't go to low because your tranny has plenty of gearing if you need a taller one.

What rock have you been under?

Obviously a big one.

I didn't even look at who posted the question. I just read the running at 65 mph to Rubicon and Holy Cross and figured you actually drove the truck there. Somehow I read the sentence together and skipped the 'and'...

So - I change my opinion and say stick with the 4.88's or go 5.13 - you can always up shift.

**Crawling back under rock.***

Yup...Shove Shove Shove....

I would go exactly the direction you are going for two reasons that follow:

1. You WILL eventually go with bigger tires...so the gearing will be somewhat absorbed.

2. You trailer.


Simple as that...I would go 5.13's and slide in your 4:1 kit and never look back...except over the obstacle that you just climbed.

If you don't need to ever go down into LOW LOW LOW then so be it. Though I guarantee that the day you do need it, you will be very happy.

Ohh yeah C.D. is in the mail as of tomorrow....with some nifties in it.

I'm running 4.56 w/38's and a 421 D300, I generally bypass 2nd and use the 6.43 1st on the rocks, I also use 4th and 3rd in open spots inbetween the boulders. My personal prefrence would be 5.13 in my diffs, I was thinking of 4.88 but .32 is not that big of a spread. As far as I'm concerned 4.56 are for 35's, 4.88's R4 36/37's, 5.13 R4 38's.

If you decide to go with 4.56's, I'll trade you my 14/60 4.56's for your 4.88's.

...If you decide to go with 4.56's, I'll trade you my 14/60 4.56's for your 4.88's.
My 4.88's are in D44's..... still want 'em :flipoff2:

Oh yeah..... when I swap to the 1-ton running gear, I will most likely be going with 38.5" SX's.

Find a Dana 70 and Ive got a set of 4.88s for a rear Dana 70 that need a home.

Go as low as you can in the diff, that way when you wake up and go with a auto trans you will be set.:flipoff2:

Oh yeah..... when I swap to the 1-ton running gear, I will most likely be going with 38.5" SX's.

4.56 + 38.5 SX's = :barf:

I am running 38.5 sx's with 4.56's a d20 divorced to a 205, T-19 wide and 392. Gives me 58:1 in single low (run this 90% of the time on most trails) 112:1 in double low for technical stuff. For the most part it works pretty well. If I could do it over I think I would go 5.13's. Just so I could go up in tire size later with no ill effects. (42's maybe 44's) - sean

Most of the guys arround here ditch the 14 bolt for a 60 or 70 just to get the 6+ ring and pinion :D BUT the trend seems to be 42's also :flipoff2:

If anything go low man you'll be happy

4.56 + 38.5 SX's = :barf:
Hmmmm..... 4.56 with 4:1 in t-case and 6.32:1 1st comes out to 115:1

Right now I have 4.88 with 2.62 in t-case and 6.32:1 1st which is 81:1 and it wheels pretty damn good.

Granted right now I'm on 36's with 81:1 and I'd be on 38.5's with 115:1. Yeah, the bigger tires will 'absorb' some of the gearing, but not as much as the difference between 81 and 115. So why do you say what you say? That combo would still be lower geared than I am already. Yeah, with a stock D20 it would blow big time.

OK.... enough with this. Now the next question.... Does anybody even have 5.13's for a 14-bolt in stock? Last I heard, they were vaporware but I admitt I haven't looked lately.

I'm running 4.88's, I can run eighty down the freeway, no problem.. I wish I'd went with 5.13's. 36 inch tires with a 14 bolt? You'll be going bigger, go 4.88's no less. Build it once and save a grundle dude

I just looked at Randy's, Drive Train direct, and West Coast Differentials. They do show 5:13s available

If you know where to look 5.13's were available from the factory. I've picked up a couple of them in the last year. I've also seen them for sale in the classified ads. There is also a 5.14 Eaton 3rd member for sale in the wanted ads. :)

Would a 5.0 Atlas work with your T-19? What kind of crawl ratio would that give you? (Too lazy to look it up myself) Might let you keep it a little streetable while kickin' ass on the rocks. Just a thought. :smokin:

Sorry.... my bad. I think it was the 5.38's for the 14 bolt that's the mythical creature I was thinking of. 5.13's seem to be readily available.

I don't seem to have an Atlas 5:1 case laying around that I'm tripping over and the money it would take for me to have one to trip over just aint there. Now, as long as we're taking a little diversion into fantasy land :flipoff2: , IF I was going to buy and Atlas, I'd just reach a little deeper into the pocket and shell out for a Stak.

Go low.

Remember it's not JUST about what the low-low crawl is, it's also about whether or not high-range will be useful, and with a 4-1, you may have to opt for 4-high and 2nd gear just because 4th gear / low is too slow. (4:1 low, or 3:1 in high 2nd)

So don't blow "high range" performance because you think you have it covered with the crawler gear.

I'd gear it to run 75mph at factory redline with whatever size tires you plan to run - or as close to redline at 75mph as you can get with crappy 14-bolt gearing. :flipoff2:

If you were running the Dana 44s, I'd be worried about the pinions going lower than your 4.88... but with a 60/14-bolt? GO LOW.

I do like the way the rig wheels now.... in that once I put it in 4-lo, it stays there. Wheel most of the time in 2nd, 1st for tough or technical obsticle and 3rd or 4th when the trail smooths out and I don't need to be crawling. I don't want to go so low that I end up having to shift back and forth from high to low range, but that might be inevitable.

I do like the way the rig wheels now.... in that once I put it in 4-lo, it stays there. Wheel most of the time in 2nd, 1st for tough or technical obsticle and 3rd or 4th when the trail smooths out and I don't need to be crawling. I don't want to go so low that I end up having to shift back and forth from high to low range, but that might be inevitable.


You run 4-low, 2nd a lot now?

~38:1 ratio.

Keeping 4.88s, and just going to a 4:1, puts you at

58.5 in 4-low/2nd or 33.2 in 4-low/3rd.

With 5.13s, in 3rd/low you're at 35:1 Closer to that 38:1 number..

Today, 4-hi/1st is 31:1.. a little faster than you usually want to run.

With 5.13s, it'd only be 32:1 in high/first.

This help at all?

4.88 * 6.32 * 2.62 = 80.8
4.88 * 3 * 2.62 = 38
4.88 * 1.7 * 2.62 = 21.7
4.88 * 1 * 2.62 = 12.8

4.88 * 6.32 * 1 = 31
4.88 * 3 * 1 = 14.64
4.88 * 1.7 * 1 = 8.3
4.88 * 1 * 1 = 4.88

4.88 * 6.32 * 4 = 123
4.88 * 3 * 4 = 58.5
4.88 * 1.7 * 4 = 33.2
4.88 * 1 * 4 = 19.52

5.13 * 6.32 * 4 = 130
5.13 * 3 * 4 = 61.5
5.13 * 1.7 * 4 = 35
5.13 * 1 * 4 = 20.5

5.13 * 6.32 = 32
5.13 * 3 = 15.4
5.13 * 1.7 = 8.7
5.13 * 1 = 5.13

It appears I am not the only one too lazy to bust out a calculator to calc #'s.

Attached is an excel sheet to calc MPH based on RPM and stuff.

Speed Calc Sheet (http://www.hundekeandroyal.com/chrisjunk/speedcalc.xls)

I calc'd it using 5.13's and 38.5" tires - to make 75 mph you'll be just shy of 3400 rpm. So - if you can live with that for the few times you need to hit the road, go low.

Do your one tons have 4.10's now? Run those first and regear once it's back on the trails and see how it does. That's what I'd do anyway since you have the 4:1's for the case already. I doubt you drive it on the road enough to worry there do ya?

it's a trailer queen, get a 70 rear and some 7.17's and big taaaarrrs and run it :D

If I remember correctly.... my D60 has 3.73's in it now and the 14-bolt has 4.10's I think. I have another set of gears for the 14 (4.56's), but that 14-bolt isn't even the one I want to use. It's the 67" variety and I'm looking for a 72"

I'm running 5.13s, a C6 auto (2.46:1), 203/205 doubler, and 39.5" TSLs. I'm very happy with my gearing, and spend most of my time in low-low. I'll put the 203 in high between trails, that's it.

Another vote for the 5.13s!

very :cool2: UglyScout this is exactly what I was thinking, don't get stuck on crawl ratio. As the tires get bigger you’re going faster for the same gearing. I have a question , are you going to stay with the same leaf springs? I know you just got some new rears

Get me a 67 inch D60 with 4.56's and I'll give you a 72 inch Dana 70 with a lockright and 4.56's. I'm way wide now and want to narrow up.

Won't work DJ.... I want a 72" DRW 14-bolt so I can put SRW hubs on it and increase the width to 76". I can't do that with your D70.

Don't know one the springs Craig.... no biggie if I keep them or not. They're not new, they're some used springs and were quite affordable. I may even the link the rear when I swap to the 14-bolt.

I do, however, have a 67" 14-bolt, but shipping would probably be more than you could just buy one for at the JY.

Won't work DJ.... I want a 72" DRW 14-bolt so I can put SRW hubs on it and increase the width to 76". I can't do that with your D70.

Don't know one the springs Craig.... no biggie if I keep them or not. They're not new, they're some used springs and were quite affordable. I may even the link the rear when I swap to the 14-bolt.

I do, however, have a 67" 14-bolt, but shipping would probably be more than you could just buy one for at the JY.

Can you say "eBay"? Unload that pig to the masses and then search locally for the mama jammer that you really want. Heck, Start it a $800 and stand back from there. Just a thought. :cool2:

Actually its 74.5 just went and measured. My dana 60 I had to add 2 inch spacers on each side and the rear is still a touch wider. It came out of a 1985 Jeep CJ10 airport tug. Beefy isn't the right word for this. It has a high pinion and not much to drag. Actually here is a link to the CJ10 rearend. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280820&highlight=cj10a Its 75 inches wide. Sounds like they are doing the same with the jeeps as I did with my scout. I have the dual wheel hubs for your 60, the hummer double beadlocks with 37 oz muds and magnesium runflats, and the 75 inch dana 70 with 4.88's and a spare set of 4.56's. I have your project in my garage.

Here is a little more evidence why you should use a 70 and not a 14 bolt.
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/dana70discbrakes/

I used to run 4.10's in my Scout (SBC, sm465, Dana 20 on 36's) and I loved the freeway rpm's

then I switched axles and went with 4.56's (Same set up except for a 4.3 Atlas & 38's). Even with 4.56's, it seemed to wind out too fast. Now I'm sorta stuck with them...if I had my choice, knowing that I'd be running t-case gears, I'd run 4.10's

Actually its 74.5 just went and measured. My dana 60 I had to add 2 inch spacers on each side and the rear is still a touch wider. It came out of a 1985 Jeep CJ10 airport tug. Beefy isn't the right word for this. It has a high pinion and not much to drag. Actually here is a link to the CJ10 rearend. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280820&highlight=cj10a Its 75 inches wide. Sounds like they are doing the same with the jeeps as I did with my scout. I have the dual wheel hubs for your 60, the hummer double beadlocks with 37 oz muds and magnesium runflats, and the 75 inch dana 70 with 4.88's and a spare set of 4.56's. I have your project in my garage.
Unless you offer free delivery.... I'd say it's "game off". :flipoff2:

shipping from you to me would be a deal killer. I don't need dual wheel hubs... they're already on my axle, I already have 5 H1 wheels and I'd have to regear the D70 anyway. I think it'll be cheaper for me to scrounge up a 72" DRW 14-bolt here locally.

Here is a little more evidence why you should use a 70 and not a 14 bolt.
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/dana70discbrakes/
Except for the lower potential gearing.... I don't see anything in that link that you can't do to a 14-b just as easily.

I can see what DJ is pointing out, however, for the money and since you already have one, the 14 bolt should do everything and more than you'll ever need. 5:13 is still a pretty tall gear and somewhat streetable with tall tires and now you can get ARB as a locker choice, besides the Detroit. :smokin:

Hey Torc! Grab the credit card! All set up and ready to go. Sell your other junk for the difference. :cool2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-dana-60-and-14-bolt-4-56-detroit-CUCV-Chevy-K30_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33731QQitemZ8005525 112QQrdZ1

Hey Torc! Grab the credit card! All set up and ready to go. Sell your other junk for the difference. :cool2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-dana-60-and-14-bolt-4-56-detroit-CUCV-Chevy-K30_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33731QQitemZ8005525 112QQrdZ1
Still not what I'm looking for. I already have a front 60 and that's a 67" 14-bolt... got one of those too.:flipoff2:

run the 5.13's. that is what i have with 44's. i nned to do a doubler or atlas for lower gearing though, but i can still run the con. how it is:cough:CB:cough:

Yeah, yeah.... sorry about that.... I've got it all boxed up, but can't seem to get by the damn post office to get it sent off. I may just have to go 'inspect' something in the field during work hours and get that puppy sent off.

dont worry about it, I was given another one.Keep it as a souvenere(?) from your trip out west

Well, crap.... now what the hell am I gonna do with this taped up box with your addy on it?:flipoff2: I still have to hit the P.O. to get Johnson's u-joint in the mail... it's already boxed and ready to go as well so you will probably get it back anyhow....

Well, crap.... now what the hell am I gonna do with this taped up box with your addy on it?:flipoff2: I still have to hit the P.O. to get Johnson's u-joint in the mail... it's already boxed and ready to go as well so you will probably get it back anyhow....
See if you can trade it for an antenna:laughing:
http://beer.thisdysfunctional.org/kids/album86/mechantenna.jpg

See if you can trade it for an antenna:laughing:
What? you don't like my broke-dick antenna?:flipoff2:

Except for the lower potential gearing.... I don't see anything in that link that you can't do to a 14-b just as easily.
I didn't mean the disk brakes I meant the 35 spline shafts and heavier housing. I wasn't trying to get in a "parts" pissing match I just thought I'd let you know what I have and what I need if you were interested in a trade. I've also got a very nice bore 345 block someone could have for free if they want one. I'll be moving in a couple months so I gotta get rid of some crap. If you plan on a Daily driver when you're done find some wide flares. Like 5* inches. I think I'll try the cutout style off a 95 chevy.

I wasn't trying to out piss you either.... just didn't quite get the point of your post at the time. I don't have to worry about all the DD issues, though. Mine is just a toy and gets trailered to the trails.

What the f...! You ruined two CB antennas? Back to smoke signals for you! :flipoff2:

Yep, snapped one when I flopped over on the 'Con and the other one just fell apart on Holy Cross (cheapo Flying J mag-mount POS).

Shit dude, CB is just barely an improvement over smoke signals (only because it also works at night and on rainy days). If I could just pull the rest of you fawkers out of the dark ages and into the 2 meter world....:shaking: Nice compact antenna that'll reach WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY out there with clarity that a CB can only dream about. I just buy cheapo junk CB antennas because I don't feel like throwing good money at ancient technology. :flipoff2:

I like my little Yeasu FT-5200. Small, but fairly powerful and rugged dual-band (2m & 70cm), but when go on group trail rides, I always have to carry a CB (or carry Rueben's CB) so I can talk to the other riders since no one else will get off their ass and get their technician license.

Still not what I'm looking for. I already have a front 60 and that's a 67" 14-bolt... got one of those too.:flipoff2:

Isn't there a E350 VAN Dana 70 rear that's pretty wide, too?

Yeah, there is.... in fact, that may just be what DJ has now. I think the van D70's were somewhere around the 75" +/- mark. If I remember right, the hub stick out on the D70 is significantly more than the hub stick out on a 14-bolt with SRW hubs. The stick out is going to play an important role if I go with H1 wheels (standard config. not recentered). I don't want the hubs sticking out there a mile and a half hanging on every rock and tree I go by.

Here's some hub stick out pics from BV's tech department:

D70 (axle on top... the other is a D60):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/D70/Dcp_4240.jpg

14-bolt with SRW hubs:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b%20disc%20brakes/DCP_6331.JPG

14-bolt with DRW hubs (stick is comparable to the D70 stick out):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/brawler_hub2.jpg

Mine don't stick out at all past the tires and they are only 12.5 wide. That is with the hummer wheels.

Got a pic?

I've got one somewhere. I'll take one tomorrow. With these hummer wheels and the 70 and 37x12x16.5 tires I have about 3/4 of an inch into the axle flange.

I went muddin' in the junkyard today, (I think there's a hole in my right boot), anyway, most of the SRW 14-bolt and SRW Dana 60's on the rack were 66" / 67" inches in between the WMS's including the Ford van stuff. Most, if not all of the DRW axles were in the neighborhood of 70" to 72". I did find one SRW axle that was 72" and that was off a '96 Dodge 3/4 ton. The drums on that sucker were huge. Would that be a 70, by chance? I did find another 14-bolt with 4:56 gears for $300. I might take it home and call it George. :grinpimp:

Took a short little drive over to my axle stash and pulled some measurements. On a 14-bolt SRW hub, the total stick out from WMS to outside of the axle flange bolts is 2 5/8" and the total stick out on a D60 DRW front hub is 1 1/2" from the WMS to the outside of the lockout.

Based on this info for the 14-bolt, I'm definately leaning towards finding one of those. If I just can't track down a 72" 14b, I'll have to consider the D70.

I'll have to consider the D70.
and gear the snot out of it! 7.17's!!!!!!! :evil:

and gear the snot out of it! 7.17's!!!!!!! :evil:
Gotta remember that that's not necessary when you have something other than a rubberband under the hood.:flipoff2:

Gotta remember that that's not necessary when you have something other than a rubberband under the hood.:flipoff2:
But the option is there. I'd go as low as possible, It's not a DD.

But the option is there. I'd go as low as possible, It's not a DD.
Bones and I are friends.... we're just yankin' each other's chain. He used to drive a 4runner with a little 4-popper on massive meats. He had to gear his chit stupid low just to get it to move out of it's own way.:flipoff2:

I pretty much trying to go with a 14 bolt in the rear and since 5.38's are still somewhat mythical, I'm probably going to go with 5.13's and 38.5" meats. Even if I went with a D70 rear, there is no way I'd go with 7.17's and 4:1 in the t-case.

I guess there are really 3 types of rigs. DD (Daily Driver) I would be running 3.54's so I could do 2000 rpm @65mph.
DT (that’s Drive to the Trail) Running low gears and overdrive transmission. This would make freeway driving pleasing on the wallet. :shaking: Then you’re TQ (Trailer Queen) geared as low as you can go.

Made a trip down to Pick-n-Pull this morning and wasted my $1. Didn't have what I was looking for, but I did run across three ~67" D70's. I pulled a measurement on the hub stick out and came up with 5 1/8" vs. 2 5/8" for a SRW 14-bolt hub. PnP didn't have any duallies down there at all.... come to think of it, I've never seen a dually pickup down there. I've seen several C&C type trucks, but never a fat-assed dually pickup.

I have to go down to Hays tomorrow, so I'll stop at the junk yard on the way. I know of a bunch a 14 bolts from various trucks.

:cool2: :smokin:

Well it was a no-go. Dudes yard was closed. But this may not be the place to buy from anyhow. Sometimes he thinks his crap is gold plated therefore marks up his prices accordingly.

This week I'll head down to the yard I got all 3/4 ton chevy crap from and see what's there.

O.K., here's what I came up with. Since you're playin' around with your 14 bolt and hummer wheels, I pulled the tires off my truck and peeked at what the wheels would look like. Even though I have the 44 front axle, changing the backspacing or wheelspacers are needed, (I elected wheelspacers), the front lockouts really stickout. 1.5" or 2" would make it flush with the wheel edge. The rear wheel end cap was flush to the wheel edge. With a wheelspacer, 1.5" would leave a half inch showing to the bolts, and at 2" the wheel would end at the bolt cap. Another note, you know the 14-bolt hung a little low. On jackstands, the center of the hub was off the floor 18", (approx. 36" tire) the pumpkin only had 11.5" clearance. Also, the u-joint needs some armor protection, Holy Cross ground off the grease zerk and chewed up the u-bolts. I'll drag the camera to the shop for pics this week. :smokin:

...Another note, you know the 14-bolt hung a little low. On jackstands, the center of the hub was off the floor 18", (approx. 36" tire) the pumpkin only had 11.5" clearance.
A little of this will take care of that
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/PJshave14welded.jpg
Also, the u-joint needs some armor protection, Holy Cross ground off the grease zerk and chewed up the u-bolts. I'll drag the camera to the shop for pics this week. :smokin:
One of these will fix that
http://i8.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/b8/fc/4e_1_b.JPG
:smokin: :cool2:

Wow! How much did you gain with that? Bet you couldn't make another u-joint guard and send it to Colorado for testing. :grinpimp:

I don't know... that's not my axle. I just grabbed a pic out of the tech dept. for illustration purposes. If I haven't found and axle yet, how could I have shaved it already. :flipoff2:

Oh, and I didn't make the pinion gaurd either... Greatlakeoffroad is selling them in the vendor's section. linky (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359056)

Now that I looked closely at the pumpkin, that ain't a grind down. That's a cut out and weld in. Too much work! :eek:

Now that I looked closely at the pumpkin, that ain't a grind down. That's a cut out and weld in. Too much work! :eek:
:confused: :confused: :confused: Other than just trimming the lip off the bottom of the housing, I don't know of any way to shave a housing other than cutting a chunk of the bottom and plating it. Standard shave job. Yeah, it's a little work, but everything else seems to be also... nothing seems to be bolt-on on these rigs.:D Well, except that pinion gaurd thingy...:flipoff2:

Still wonder if it's worth the 2" that you save. Oh, your linky no worky. :shaking:

Still wonder if it's worth the 2" that you save. Oh, your linky no worky. :shaking:
I'll let ya know if it was worth it or not after I do it (but if I didn't think it was worth it, I wouldn't do it). Linky works for me on two different comps.... if you're having issues, just go the the Vendor's Showcase, Body/Armour forum and look for "14 bolt pinion gaurd" or something like that.

I am going to order the pinion guard for mine. Not sure about the shave job. I like the idea, just wonder about making the housing weaker. Need to double check if that housing is weldable without using a nickel rod.