Hydroassist ram mounting

[Mechanos]

Spent a little while under the Scout over the weekend ponder how and where to mount the hydroassist ram. I've got some ideas how to make my mount on the axle, but not sure exactly how I'm going to do that yet. While I ponder that... I got busy on the mount for the tie rod. Most people seem to just weld the tabs for the ram right onto the tie rod itself, but that just seems a little hack to me and not nearly challenging enough:flipoff2: . I wanted a mount that would allow easy toe adjustments, so I fabbed up this sexy little beotch:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210038&stc=1&d=1129178334
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210039&stc=1&d=1129178334

[Urban Wheeler]

Nice. I suppose it would keep you from breaking shit by sliding if you push on it hard enough, but then you would have to readjust it.

Are those tig welds?

[TheCopperCowboy]

Is that Wrigley's Spearmint or Juicyfruit? :flipoff2: Just kiddin', bro. How do you plan to keep your gizmo from sliding what, let's say, a wheel wedged between a rock and a few hundred p.s.i. of hydraulic pressure looking to rip it apart? :cool2:

[Mechanos]

Nice. I suppose it would keep you from breaking shit by sliding if you push on it hard enough, but then you would have to readjust it.

Are those tig welds?
Funny you should mention that. The clamp bites into the TR pretty good and since the ram exerts it's force on the clamp offset from the centerline of the tie rod, I would tend to think that the clamp would want to cock causing it to bite into the TR even more. But who knows.... it could just slide down the TR like you said. I actually already thought of this scenario so while I was cutting stock, I cut some additional pieces of 2" x 0.235" wall DOM to act as stops. In the pic you can see the extra pieces of stock just sitting on the TR. If sliding becomes an issue (or if I decided to just do it anyhow) I'll weld those stop pieces onto TR, one on each end. That will keep the clamp from sliding down the TR, but would still allow me to loosen the clamp and twist the TR to make toe adjustments.:smokin:

Oh, and no, those are not TIG welds.... just ordinary, run of the mill MIG welds.

[Whitescout]

You could always taper the dom that you put on the sides, and this would definately keep the schiznit from sliding.

[Mechanos]

You could always taper the dom that you put on the sides, and this would definately keep the schiznit from sliding.
Do you mean taper it like a wedge so that the clamp would have to 'ramp' up and over the stop? :confused: I think that might act like a splitting wedge and try to split the clamp open.

[Whitescout]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. I was thinking of having it work similar to a taper lock bushing for a shieve on a moytor or pump. I would thimk that if you put one on each side, the load would be divided evenly over the whole unit. ( of course you would need to taper the iside of your little fabbed schiznit) If you had evrything torc'ed (pun intended) down evenly, then the stress would be divided equally over all three bolts. Otherwise, would the offset pressure from the clamp would be put mainly on the one bolt oppisite, wouldn't it??????

[DJForrestA]

How about drilling a couple holes and doing some plug welds. You could always install it as is and test is out and see what happens.

[Mechanos]

How about drilling a couple holes and doing some plug welds. You could always install it as is and test is out and see what happens.
Well, if I was just gonna weld the fawker to the TR, I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of making the clamp.... I would have just welded the tabs right onto the TR. :flipoff2:

[Harvester of Sorrow]

Mech...

It isn't going to slide. With the amount of surface area that you have contacting the TR...Combined with the off center and angle of diffraction on the ram mount...it will be just fine.

[DJForrestA]

My thought was it would be easy to drill the plug welds out if you needed to remove it and still be able to put it back on later. I agree with HOS that is probably will be fine but a plug weld would take away any doubts. Just bolt it together drill a small hole in the bottom and zap it. Better that then have it slide on the trail when you really need it.

[TheCopperCowboy]

What about notching the tie rod at intervals and setting a tab into the bracket to lock it in? Might work. :idea:

[4xFreak]

I doubt that you'll have any problems with it. My friend has one similar to yours on his buggy with aluminum tie rod. AFAIK, it works fine and he hasnt had any problems with it.

[BrettM]

looks good, where'd you get the 3 clamping pieces?

[Mechanos]

What about notching the tie rod at intervals and setting a tab into the bracket to lock it in? Might work. :idea:
Yeah, that would definately keep the clamp from sliding, but notching the TR would create stress risers and weak spots along the TR.

looks good, where'd you get the 3 clamping pieces?
Grainger

I doubt that you'll have any problems with it...
I don't think I'll have any problems either. And if it does show signs of sliding, I'll weld the stops onto the TR on either side of the clamp as shown above. If that ram can shove that clamp over another piece of tube 0.5" bigger diameter, then it wins..... let the clamp move.:flipoff2:

[Binder]

I'm betting against all you guys. I think it will slide. Probably not from just driving it but if it's wheeled it will slide. Remember there are other forces involved here, it's not just the ram pushing on the tie rod. If you hit a good "bump" at any kind of speed the tie rod pushes against the ram. The ram being a awesome steering damper won't move much. End result is it will slide. Aside all of that it will rotate around the tie rod also.

I still think it's a cool little bracket though.

[Harvester of Sorrow]

I'm betting against all you guys. I think it will slide. Probably not from just driving it but if it's wheeled it will slide. Remember there are other forces involved here, it's not just the ram pushing on the tie rod. If you hit a good "bump" at any kind of speed the tie rod pushes against the ram. The ram being a awesome steering damper won't move much. End result is it will slide. Aside all of that it will rotate around the tie rod also.

I still think it's a cool little bracket though.

I will take that bet Rick...

Diet Coke? Pepsi? Wine Cooler....What ever your poison...next time we wheel or meet up...

I think as long as he properly torques the unit down it ain't moving...

[Mechanos]

Well, when I get the mount for the other end fabbed and installed, get the ram and hoses installed and get my hydroboost back from Vanco, I'll be able to hook it all up and find out.

[Bones]

It won't move, especially once it gets rusty over time :D I like that mount man, much better than my old POS hack job.

[Mechanos]

...I like that mount man, much better than my old POS hack job.
When I started seriously looking into mounting this thing, I kept thinking about your old setup. Let me tell ya.... visions of your old "channel iron and bolts" :eek: TR mount kept me up at night and were the main motivation for me building this clamp. :laughing: :flipoff2: :laughing: J/K.... :flipoff2:

[RustoleumWhite]

I'm on the fence on this one, Part of me agree's with HOS, thats alot of surface area and those clamps are pretty good... but part of me agrees with Binder, if it can move it will...

However, since you have those stops on there, and you can weld them on I think your set.


I'd think keep going the way you are, see if it moves just to satisfy all of us, and if it does weld your stops on and you still have the same function you were after...




Toe??? Whats that :flipoff2:

[Bones]

When I started seriously looking into mounting this thing, I kept thinking about your old setup. Let me tell ya.... visions of your old "channel iron and bolts" :eek: TR mount kept me up at night and were the main motivation for me building this clamp. :laughing: :flipoff2: :laughing: J/K.... :flipoff2:
It was atleast DOM tube :laughing:

[Mechanos]

Well.... forked around with the ram some more this weekend. Built a mount and tacked it on the axle, bolted the booty-licious clamp on the TR and stuck the ram in there. Cycled the steering and found out that the ram and the TR were arguing over the same piece of real estate so I had to relocate axle mount. Here's a pic of the mount tacked in place with the ram installed:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210460&stc=1&d=1129515152

After setting the steering stops, I cycled the steering again and measured the total stroke of the TR from stop to stop to be 6.5". I want the ram to act as the steering stops, but my ram has an 8" stroke. I needed to destroke the ram 1.5", so I "machined" three 0.5" spacers from UHMW polyethylene. The bore on my ram is 1.5" so I used a 1.5" hole saw to cut out the spacers. The spacers came out to be 1.3" diameter (1.5" minus the kerf of the hole saw). Then I enlarged the hole saw pilot bit hole to 0.75" to fit the shaft of my ram. I opened up the ram, removed the end plug and slipped the spacers over the shaft, and then reinstalled the end plug. Here's a crappy, blurry pic of the spacers on the shaft before I closed the cylinder back up:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210461&stc=1&d=1129515152

Works like a charm.... I now have a 6.5" stroke ram.:smokin: The ports/hoses coming out the cylinder are too close the oil pan for my comfort so I think once I get the system bled (waiting to get my hi-flowed hydroboost back so I can close up the system), I'm going to loosen the jam nuts on the rod ends and rotate the cylinder 45° to 90° to give everything more clearance.

[4xFreak]

You will be fine. My friend broke 2 out of 4 mounting bolts on his clamp this weekend and it still didnt move. It was wheeled hard afterwards too.

http://www.texas4x4.org/gallery/Clayton%2C-OK-10-15-05/IMG_0822

[Mechanos]

Holy shit!!! that thing is huge!!! How did he manage to break two of those bolts?

http://www.texas4x4.org/gallery/albums/Clayton%2C-OK-10-15-05/IMG_0822.jpg

[4xFreak]

Banged it on a rock and broke the welds.

[VancoPBS]

Your hydroboost will be shipped today (Unless Murphy comes a calling).

[Mechanos]

Sweet!!!!!!! That was amazingly fast turn around time! FedEx showed that you received it close to noon last Thursday and it's already done! :cool2:

[VancoPBS]

it's already done!

Um no, it's actually being rebuilt as I type. Will be done soon though in time for shipping, unless the core is bad. Then I call you up, say 50 more bucks, you bitch then say fine and I ship it tommorow.

[Mechanos]

:laughing: :laughing:
Guess I miss understood your first post. I've got my fingers crossed and don't expect any problems with the core. I had it installed and it was working fine with no leaks... kinda of a shame to tear into it except for the flow issue with hydroassist ram. But, you're the expert....

[Snoopy]

I've been considering mounting a ram like that (with my 4-link stuff). Should be strong enough.

[Mechanos]

Rebuilt and high-flowed hydroboost showed up today. Although the box looked like it fell off the the truck.... twice... and a heard of elephants played soccer with it for a while.... the HB appears to be fine. Weather permitting, I'll get it installed tomorrow and the rest of the hydraulic system closed up and a bled out.

[VancoPBS]

Not cool, check the shaft section out. Where the rod goes into the unit and make sure it's ok.

[TheCopperCowboy]

Were those African or Indian elephants? :flipoff2: Them African elephants are alot tougher. :smokin:

[Mechanos]

Got the hydroboost re-installed and it's hosed hooked up. Just as I was about to start in on the ram hoses, it started to rain. Packed up the tools and called it a day. Hopefully tomorrow I will get a chance to hook the ram hoses up and get the system bled.

[toocoolforschoolTJ]

That clamp will definately be fine, i've seen those on more than one setup work just fine, even on a buggy with full hydrosteer it didn't move

[Mechanos]

Started back in on finishing up the hydroassist this morning. Right after I finished welding in the gusset for the axle mount, it started raining a little... more like a mist, but I kept at it. After hooking up the hoses to the ram, I stuck the free end of each hose into a jug PS fluid and cycled the ram a few times to fill it with fluid and expell virtually all the air in the ram. Then I pulled the pipe plugs out of my steering box and installed the 1/4" NPT to -4 adapters and installed the free ends of the hoses off the ram. Time to bleed the air....

First thing I did was fill the reservoir and start the engine. Added a little more PS fluid to top it off and bled the hydroboost unit by cycling it several times. Added more fluid to the reservoir and did it again. I got a very small amount of fine bubbles in the reservoir. After letting the system sit for a while, the bubbles had dissipated so it was time to cycle the steering. At first, I had the front end jacked up off the ground and turned the wheel to lock one way, lock the other way and back to center. There was no appreciable difference in the fluid reservoir but there was a frothy layer on top of the fluid, so I let it set again.

Once the reservoir cleared up again, I cycled the steering a few more times and then lowered the front end and cycled it again with the tires on the ground. The steering was super easy with no bucking and no complaints from the pump. Now the acid test.... I've read many accounts of people having their reservoir boil over and puke out massive amounts of fluid when they shut the engine off as air trapped in the system and compressed by the pump expands. When I shut the engine off, the fluid level did rise up into the neck of the reservoir and I got one tiny little glug of fine air bubbles, but the fluid level didn't overflow the reservoir. Success!!! I'm pretty sure that prefilling the cylinder before starting the system was the secret to my success and ease of bleeding the system.

All that's left to do now is road test it......

[Snoopy]

Nice way to bleed that ram! I'm going to copy it.

Normally I've filled the system, then with engine off and tires in the air, I turn the steering lock-to-lock a few times and let it sit, then do it again. Seems to work for me ~ but I think you're system is going to be better ~ expecially with a full hydraulic system!

[Mechanos]

Yeah, it fills the cylinder and the hoses. If your careful, you can pull the hoses out of the PS jugs and wipe off the ends without draining much, if any, of the fluid out of them. I ended up with very little air in the system to bleed out.

[SSGTWC]

:cool2: :smokin:

gives me some ideas for the spring time upgrades

[Snoopy]

Youre going to LOVE the end-effect. I'm sure you noticed it a little, but when you're off-road, locked up and in the rocks, the steering is still as easy as it is on the street. My favorite thing is that the box usually doesn't whine or chirp ~ which is huge in my book.

[Mechanos]

Took it for a drive tonight. Steers effortlessly and the wheel is rock solid.... no shimmy or vibes at all. Stopped at Bones house for an inspection before I lost daylight and the reservoir was a tiny bit frothy so I'm still working a little air out. Checked the system out and there were no drips, runs or leaks. :cool2:

[SSGTWC]

where are the pics of the finished product? :flipoff2:

[Dr. Don Palmer]

Hey Mech,
Looks good. The only thing I'll add is that I mounted my ram from the top of the pinion to the TR that way eliminating the fabrication of the mount you have on the axle tube. I have the same soa, hysteer configuration you have and my set-up allows the ram to be perpendicular to the TR also.
Love your adjustable TR mount.
Dr. Don

[Dr. Don Palmer]

Hey Mech,
Looks good. The only thing I'll add is that I mounted my ram from the top of the pinion to the TR that way eliminating the fabrication of the mount you have on the axle tube. I have the same soa, hysteer configuration you have and my set-up allows the ram to be perpendicular to the TR also.
Love your adjustable TR mount.
Dr. Don

[Mechanos]

...my set-up allows the ram to be perpendicular to the TR...
Dr. Don
I personally think mine works better with ram parallel to the TR..... but hey, to each their own. :flipoff2: :laughing:

where are the pics of the finished product?
Didn't feel like takin' any Sunday when I finished up.... was too cold and tired to care. Tonight, it was dark before I got home so I didn't crawl under it to get any pics. I need to squirt a little paint on it and it'll be done. I might reroute the hoses, I'm not satisfied with their current routing. I'll snap a few eventually when I get the paint sprayed, but it looks just like the mock up pic, only the mount and gusset are fully welded on instead of just being tacked on.

[TheCopperCowboy]

Well, good job then. We knew you had it in you. Rain, cold, night, you may be going postal. Looking forward to the pics! :smokin:

[Dr. Don Palmer]

Hey Mech,
Looks good. The only thing I'll add is that I mounted my ram from the top of the pinion to the TR that way eliminating the fabrication of the mount you have on the axle tube. I have the same soa, hysteer configuration you have and my set-up allows the ram to be perpendicular to the TR also.
Love your adjustable TR mount.
Dr. Don

[Bindernut]

Hey Dr. Don, your Ph.D wouldn't happen to be in mathematics, with an emphasis in geometry would it?
































No? Oh, well I didn't think so.... :flipoff2:

[Dr. Don Palmer]

No! It isn't...and that makes it even worse doesn't it?...LOL :emb2:

[Mechanos]

I'm betting against all you guys. I think it will slide. Probably not from just driving it but if it's wheeled it will slide. Remember there are other forces involved here, it's not just the ram pushing on the tie rod. If you hit a good "bump" at any kind of speed the tie rod pushes against the ram. The ram being a awesome steering damper won't move much. End result is it will slide. Aside all of that it will rotate around the tie rod also.

I still think it's a cool little bracket though.
I will take that bet Rick...
Well, it has been wheeled, and so far, it hasn't moved. :D

[Joe V]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210039&stc=1&d=1129178334

I like it and it should hold just fine.
Here are some more pics of others I found.


http://www.norcalbigdawgs.net/Gallery/albums/The-Hammers/117379572vNgaSZ_ph.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37393&stc=1&d=1035878264

http://www.geocities.com/kristianfontes/Images/frountuboltelim/frountuboltelim1.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35237&stc=1&d=1034045781

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=739&stc=1&d=1005334062

I found those pics through my continued search for a detailed thread
with pics on how to disassemble a steering box for tapping.
Here's a good steering box disassembly thread if anyone is interested.
http://ramchargercentral.com/index.php?action=howtoshow;id=56

[Binder]

So far.

[Binder]

Notice what all of those pictures have in common? All but one are squeaky clean and have never been wheeled. If it doesn't get used it doesn't count.

[Mechanos]

Sheeeesh.... such negativity. :flipoff2:

[scout254]

This has been wheeled many times, its not that dirty. Just trying to keep it clean. Had to take off tie rod though, replacing high cross over arms with better style.:grinpimp: I like that clamp style on the other end like you guys have posted, but on mine I just welded the bracket to the tie rod.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/PB010014.jpg

[binderbound]

Maybe once you start pushing bigger tires and more axle,it could become the weak spot.

[Harvester of Sorrow]

Rick is just hoping he doesn't have to pay up a Diet Coke because it works...

ha ha ha ha...

[Mechanos]

Maybe once you start pushing bigger tires and more axle,it could become the weak spot.
Bigger tires? yeah, that may have an effect on it. More axle? I don't think so.... I think I'll design the steering to move the knuckles/wheels.... not the axle. :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:

[binderbound]

Bigger tires? yeah, that may have an effect on it. More axle? I don't think so.... I think I'll design the steering to move the knuckles/wheels.... not the axle. :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:
Yeah,the knuckles/hubs/rotors/stubs weigh exactly the same as your 44's parts do.:rolleyes:

[Binder]

This is one of those bets that's impossible to loose. It just hasn't failed "yet" because it hasn't been wheeled properly.

Seriously though, it's not the tires or axle that will move it. It's the first time you hit something hard at speed and it slams you into the dash and yanks the wheel out of your hands. Or when you roll it and land hard on the side of one of the front tires. The vehicle weight is what will do it in along with the fact that the ram is unforgiving and wont let the energy just travel through it.
I really don't wish your rig to fail I just don't agree with that particular design.

[binderbound]

This is one of those bets that's impossible to loose. It just hasn't failed "yet" because it hasn't been wheeled properly.

Seriously though, it's not the tires or axle that will move it. It's the first time you hit something hard at speed and it slams you into the dash and yanks the wheel out of your hands. Or when you roll it and land hard on the side of one of the front tires. The vehicle weight is what will do it in along with the fact that the ram is unforgiving and wont let the energy just travel through it.
I really don't wish your rig to fail I just don't agree with that particular design.
Well said Rick!

[Urban Wheeler]

I have some questions about this. What size is the ram, and just what was the problem with the assist and hydroboost?

[Mechanos]

The ram is a 1.5" x 8" w/ a 0.75" shaft.

The problem with running hydroassist and hydroboost is a matter of flow. Power steering gear boxes work primarily off of the fluid pressure and require little flow. Stock hydroboosters use a lot of flow and don't allow much flow through the unit to gear box. When you add an assist ram, you need more flow through the hydroboost unit. VancoPBS can "high-flow" the unit to allow it to pass upto 3x the amount of flow over a stock unit.

Some people have run hydroboost and hydroassist together without any mods just fine and don't have any problems. Others have problems supplying the ram with enough fluid. I chose to just hi-flow the hydroboost and eliminate that as a potential problem.

[Urban Wheeler]

Thanks. I may upgrade to hydro assist sometime, so it is good to know the boost may cause problems.

[Buddha]

Just thought I would keep this thread going with some more pics. Here is my mount. Just need to get it on the truck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Tacomatim16/100_1972.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Tacomatim16/100_1971.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Tacomatim16/100_1978.jpg

I'm using the All-Pro/Howe tie-rod mount. Well see how it holds up.

Tim

[RustoleumWhite]

Them's is some pretty welds!!




And can someone resize that last Joe V picture?? Damn, the thing takes up 1.5 screens :eek:

[Mechanos]

It's been wheeled, wheeled and wheeled some more. Even broke the front axle housing in half and the mount still hasn't moved. :flipoff2:

[YellowIH]

Nice welds...wish I could do that good a job.

[Snoopy]

I love that tower mount. Very cool and clean.

[YellowIH]

Mech....you are the ONLY source and genesis for tech lately...all that bad weather makes for Scout time.

[Buddha]

Thanks guys. I have been using the hydro assist for a while now and it is working out great!!

Tim

Edit: Here is a pic of it in action in Arizona
http://ie4w.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album16/res1386141396.jpg

[Mechanos]

Thanks guys. I have been using the hydro assist for a while now and it is working out great!!

Tim

Edit: Here is a pic of the future Darwin Award winner in Arizona
http://ie4w.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album16/res1386141396.jpg
Fixed it for ya. :flipoff2:

[NVScouter]

Rock Stacking! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Snoopy]

Rockstacking != Action

;) ~ now post better pics.

[Snoopy]

http://ie4w.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album16/res1386141396.jpg
Not to nickpick, but your passenger side u-bolts look loose. They look like they splay outward slightly (meaning the bottoms are farther apart that the tops). What happens is that when you tighten them like that they don't fully tighten up ~ and can move closer together (from a rock or vibrations during driving) and that translates into them being loose.

I'm not sure if they are, but if they are splayed out ~ I'd take a hammer, knock them together and retighted them before you bust one.

[Buddha]

Thanks, I will check them when I go home tonight.

Action Pics:
http://ie4w.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album16/res1378382037.jpg
http://ie4w.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album16/res1409419473.jpg

Tim

[Snoopy]

Oh, its a Toyota ~ that explains the rock stacking! :p

Just kiddn' ~ Diggin' the rig man. An SAS Taco, very nice. I mean, its not a scout but hey. You can't be perfect ;)

[NVScouter]

Rockstacking != Action

Buddha I dig the rig man but you could just bring these with ya next time instead of jacking up a good obstacle. J/K but at least tell me you remove the rocks when your done. :flipoff2:



BTW the pic is a random, dont want anybody thinking thats my goofy ass!

[harkinoff]

Hey Mech! Nice idea's! Here's a link to my hydro job... Another thing, I don't know on your cooler ideas? Keep the cooler below the pump, helps for the air in system problems :)

Also, whats your plans for Moab this year? I have some dates coming up for ya... I'll post later today.

[harkinoff]

oops forgot link... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181246&page=3

[Mechanos]

Hey Mech! Nice idea's! Here's a link to my hydro job... Another thing, I don't know on your cooler ideas? Keep the cooler below the pump, helps for the air in system problems :)

Also, whats your plans for Moab this year? I have some dates coming up for ya... I'll post later today.

Hey Bud... been awhile. You'll notice that thread is kind of an old one. I used it like that for about 8 trail runs without a cooler and never had any issues.

Plans for Moab this year..... pretty much don't have any. My Scout is in pieces right now and I still accumulating parts to rebuild it. With moving the rear axle back, reworking the fuel tank, 1-ton swap, and doubler install, I don't think I'll be ready by the Moab run.

[harkinoff]

Don't give me the I can't make it shit lol! If you can dude, May 4th through the 12th... Hope to see ya...

[Mechanos]

What event is that?

[harkinoff]

I don't know what is going on then? We just like to hit it in the off season. Maybe a car show?

[ditchpig]

This is my hydro assist setup on a 80 Scout 2 D44 (not on the Scout anymore)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q188/ditchpig_photo/HPIM0670.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q188/ditchpig_photo/83CJ7009.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q188/ditchpig_photo/HPIM0933.jpg