I'm in the frist stage of fabbing my suspension on my home brewed frame and was wondering......

1. About how many inches of upward travel do you guy's have?

2. What is your rear Drive Line angle?

3....#3 is missing in action ;)

4. Do you or do you not run a cv Joint on YOUR rig and did it help? Does it ever Break?

5. Do you like what you have or would you change it ? Please state what type springs are you running?

all this is for my 82 chev truck
1) I run a bout six inches uptravel in the front and maybe 7 in the rear cause my truck is low slung and tires hitting things is a real possibility if I try for more
2)my front angle is not bad but my rear is ugly, all i did was shorten the stock rear shaft and I have a 203 case so the shaft is short, I havn't actually measured it cause I don't want to know
3)I don't run a cv in mine because they are a pain to fix on the trail however this truck never sees street so vibration is not a major concern, I replace the joints every year and yeah breakage happens with 44 inch boggers
4)I use stock 88-up chev rear leaf springs on both ends and the only thing I would change is to buy replacement springs cause mine are kinda wore out and kink a bit funny near the ends.

oh yeah if you think leafs don't flex I bottom out the shocks in front on uptravel, have 3 inches left on downtravel when the shock stops and they are the longest rancho makes, anyone have some 16.5 inch travel shocks laying around they don't want?

In question number 1 are you asking about straight up and down travel or articulation type travel. My coil converted truck has 6.5 inches of straight up and downbefore it hits the stops and it has almost 8 inches down before it hits the limit strap to save the shock. This is on the front axle, the rear is within an inch of the same each way. So its pretty close to balnced but the back does have a little less. If you mean flex travel I haven't measured mine accurately but its a lot more of course.
Number 2. Driveline angle is kinda meaninless. All that really matters is the angle at the joints. My rear driveshaft has equal angles at rest of 10.5 degrees with 1350 joints. The front is uneven, 16 degrees at the case and 11 degrees at the pinion. That is why I need to get my 1410 shaft made up, my 1310's currently bottom out with extreme flex which is really bad.
Number 3 No.
Number 4 I wish that my crap was prettier. SerIously thats all I really want to change. (future upgrades excluded) My truck has an excess of booger welds and about half of the suspension isn't even painted. Oh well it hasn't ever let me down.

BTW if you are doing a trail only creation and you can't get more travel than I have your doing something wrong cuz mine is a DD work truck toyhauler. Later!

Originally posted by Blair
In question number 1 are you asking about straight up and down travel or articulation type travel.

Answer:
...Straight up travel from the unsprung unflexed position.
I'm trying to dial in the optimum a frame height and I think you answerd the Question at 6.5"

Another question(s) #1:
... What coil conversion for did you use? What kind of Truck?

Blair states " My rear driveshaft has equal angles at rest of 10.5 degrees with 1350 joints. The front is uneven, 16 degrees at the case and 11 degrees at the pinion".

Another question(s) #2:
...If your rear yoke is -10.5* shouldn't your front yoke be +10.5*?Can't you run your t-case at 0* and rotate the rear pumpkin 20* and use a cv joint at the t-case?

Originally posted by Blair
"BTW if you are doing a trail only creation and you can't get more travel than I have your doing something wrong cuz mine is a DD work truck toyhauler.

Answer:
... Yes it will be trail only with a major effort to be able to drive it on the streets (to show it off :D ) as for the streets, it's not a priority. ;)

My truck is a 1965 C10 Chevrolet. That means it came as a 2wd 1/2 ton. I converted it without the use of commercially available kits. For some reason no one makes a 4wd lift kit to fit on a 2wd. Anyway its a 5 link front and a trailing arm 3 link rear. What I meant on the driveshaft angles was that they are equal. One is 10.5 down angle the other is 10.5 up. Sorry if that was not clear. And yes I could have used a CV but the way I have has very low vibrations (in the rear shaft at least) and is cheaper and stronger than going to CV's. And I am cheap!:flipoff2: Also if you are going trail only you might want a bit more than 6.5inches of uptravel. My truck goes pretty well but it is biased toward being a multipurpose vehicle. Later

sorry I'll rephrase question #2

...If your rear yoke at the t-case is -10.5* shouldn't your front yoke be +10.5*?
In other words ...tilt the back down 10.5* and the front tilts up 10.5*?

you stated that the front is 16* and the back is at 10.5*:confused: am I missing something?

I think I understand the confusion. You are thinking in terms of holding an angle finder on the transfer case yokes. I am talking in terms of finding the angle of the shaft and subtracting the angle of the transfercase from that to find out what the U joint sees. For example if the transfer case was paralell with the ground the yoke would show zero angle. But would you say that the u joint operates under an angle of zero degrees? No because the shaft is on a down slope of X number of degrees. The U joints on my front shaft are steeper because the case is divorced and is tilted to the back. But the rear pinion is tilted up some to make the U joints see less of an angle. On the front though since I have not cut and turned the knuckles the pinion is not pointed up nearly as much as the rear so the effective U joint angle is much higher. Compounding that is the fact that the transfer case is pointed up. Anyway I don't know if this explanation will make it any better. At least for me I have to see it before I can really understand it. Later!

Originally posted by Blair
But would you say that the u joint operates under an angle of zero degrees?
If both yokes are at 0* then the angle of the drive shaft can be measured and devided by two giving you the angle of each u-joint and it only stands to reason that an equal ujoint angle woud be optimum.
In my case there is no limit to what I can do(i'm building from scratch) I just want better difine where to compromise.
Right now I can set it up for 10" upward travel but I want a 0* t-case(this helps in a lot of other ways)....that means a 20* roll-up in the rear yoke........Now the question is "do I use a CV Joint and get what I want at the t-case....do I lower the frame to 6"- 8" of upward travel and rotate the pumpkin 15* and still need a CV joint but get less wear(as a oposed to 20*) ....or do I comperimise and tilt the t-case equal to the rear dif roll up and put a cv up front.....
Lots-o-upward travel would be nice but I don't want to exersize my roll protection more than necessary, that is why I was wondering what your upward travel and drive line angle was...

seems to me only you can answer that question, what is acceptable to you may be different from what is acceptable to me, as long as I can wheel I am happy vibration and u-joint life be dammed.
I think I am going to try convert my 203 range box to take an output yoke and then feed it into a divorced 205 tilted to point straight at the rear axle, then use a two piece shaft for the front to equilize the funky angles. did I mention I really hate cv joints?

Originally posted by mytzlflick

"seems to me only you can answer that question, what is acceptable to you may be different from what is acceptable to me"

Bossgrip
yeh.... you are right ...I was just trying to guage what I'm doing by what others are doing.It's hard to do If your ad don't get more than two responces. I'm building my rig from scratch so it gets a little overwhelming somtimes...I depend on the PBB to keep me in check.

Originally posted by mytzlflick
I think I am going to try convert my 203 range box to take an output yoke and then feed it into a divorced 205 tilted to point straight at the rear axle, then use a two piece shaft for the front to equilize the funky angles.
Did I mention I really hate cv joints?

Bossgrip
Wow you must really hate those things....Why?(besides what you already stated)

I have 4 or 5" at the center bumpstops (ft and R) and about 6" at the outer stops on the front axle, the front TIRE probably goes up 12" in articulation. I use a tube of the cage against the tire for a rear stop and it probably travels 10" before it hits.

You need to decide how high you want the thing to ride and work from there. Ride height is the most important aspect, then ground clearance, then you adjust everything else to try to keep close to the ideal height you have chosen... engine/trans might need to move up for axle clearance and the fenders and rockers might have to get cut to get some tire/rock clearance. Then you start figuring out the driveline angles and springs. Just mock everything up before you do any permanent work.
I cut the floorpan out and lowered the body/cage until the carb stuck out of the hood and the radiator became the limiting factor, then I moved the winch behind the pass. seat and raked the radiator and grill so I could get the body lower, and that became the top of my wheel travel.

Originally posted by dirtrod
I have 4 or 5" at the center bumpstops (ft and R) and about 6" at the outer stops on the front axle, the front TIRE probably goes up 12" in articulation. I use a tube of the cage against the tire for a rear stop and it probably travels 10" before it hits.

You need to decide how high you want the thing to ride and work from there. Ride height is the most important aspect, then ground clearance, then you adjust everything else to try to keep close to the ideal height you have chosen... engine/trans might need to move up for axle clearance and the fenders and rockers might have to get cut to get some tire/rock clearance. Then you start figuring out the driveline angles and springs. Just mock everything up before you do any permanent work.
I cut the floorpan out and lowered the body/cage until the carb stuck out of the hood and the radiator became the limiting factor, then I moved the winch behind the pass. seat and raked the radiator and grill so I could get the body lower, and that became the top of my wheel travel.

Yeh..my floor pan is pretty much gone I'm raising my gas tank to clear the rear axle and the atlas is twice the size of the d18 that was there....that's ok though ...it was full of rust anyway ..:D
The v-8 also demand a lot of space...that's one of many reasons I don't want to tilt everything for a U-joint
What is your u-joint situation? Do you run a CV?

the main reason I hate em (other than the complexity and inability to fix em easy in the field) is cause I had one fail on me in my dodge on the way to bc in the middle of the first snowstorm of the year. it was actually a crappy repair byt eh previous owner who figured all the little bits in the middle were not important. so after buying my $30k truck I got to 2wd it home. cost $350 to fix it, if it had been a simple joint I could have fixed it or jury rigged it on the side of the road or stopped at the first garage to repair it.
I really have this thing about keeping my stuf easy to repair cause I can't seem to avoid breaking it.
I can send you a pic of my hideous rear shaft angle if you like, I have the rear pointed up to mimic a cv shaft but without the cv. works ok but it does eat joints. hence the divorced 205 plan, besides then I get dual cases

Originally posted by BossGrip


Yeh..my floor pan is pretty much gone I'm raising my gas tank to clear the rear axle and the atlas is twice the size of the d18 that was there....that's ok though ...it was full of rust anyway ..:D
The v-8 also demand a lot of space...that's one of many reasons I don't want to tilt everything for a U-joint
What is your u-joint situation? Do you run a CV?

Same thing here, by the time I cut off all the rust it looked pretty lean. I don't have any problems with the drivelines, I'm useing a 4 shaft rockwell tcase from the 60s, and the output shafts are about 5-6" below the input shaft. I'm useing standard 1350 joints with the yokes ground for clearance.

Originally posted by mytzlflick

I can send you a pic of my hideous rear shaft angle if you like, I have the rear pointed up to mimic a cv shaft but without the cv. works ok but it does eat joints. hence the divorced 205 plan, besides then I get dual cases
Yes I would like to see pics and would be interested in seeing the new plan when you're done.

dirtrod
That t-case must be huge!!Does it have straight cut Gears(makes for a cool sounding rig) one of the features of my sm420.
I would be interested in a pic of that baby...
It must hang down pretty far.

No, it's pretty compact probably 70 lbs. ? It might hang down a couple inches below a 465 tranny, I'd have to look again, (I've only had it in there for 15 years) ...Yea, all straight gears, some bearings and a couple shift forks, nice unit no problems yet. :)
I'll try to get a pic.

Hmmm, that's about what a d18 or a 20 weighs..cool I'd like to see what it looks like..
What gear ratio does it have?........It's cool seeing shit that's been around 40 years and still taking abuse.What did you pull it out of?

It has a 1.92 low range. They were in chevys 62-69, divorced behind a 420 up until 68, then married to a 465 for 68 & 69, then GM went to the 205.
I have heard that parts are getting hard to find for the married version that I have, due to the short production time.
I just picked up another pair 465/tcase for $100, so I should be good for a while...