Link suspension and coils

[Mechanos]

I was thinking (that ALWAYS seems to get me in trouble) that since I'm going to have to redo my suspension when I swap the 1-ton axles in, why not link it and run coil springs. The weenie little 2" leaves just aren't gonna cut it with the 1-tons. In the rear, I'm thinking 4-link and possibly some Bronco coils from Wild Horses. For the front, I'm toying with the idea of going with an asymetrical 4-link (fancy name for 3-link with a track bar) also on coils.... but I don't know which ones. Would the Wild Horses coils also work well on the front? or would I need something a little heavier to handle the weight of the 345?

Let's hear your opinions.....

[Munchies]

Ill let you know how mine go. Doing damian's 4-link with I think 5.5 wildhorse coils. 44044's in the front :) Just gotta get goin on dat darn 392.

I really like damians front link setup on rusty.

[Snoopy]

Links are over-rated, go with Scout 80 springs.















:D

[Snoopy]

Na really, talk to Rueben and JoshC ~ you should have seen the way their rigs work at the Rubi, its best to get real-world experience rather than hear-say.






Speaking of which ~ We've put together those 4-link systems where the upper links connect to the lower links, and there is a track/panhard bar controling side-to-side motions. It works rather well. It also works AWESOME on the street since the upper links turn the axles into torsion bars (which keeps body sway to an absolute min). The big thing is that you need to make the upper arms disconnectable ~ that will allow your links to pivot around a bit (which is good) and if you want MASSIVE flex, just pull on the the bolts on the upper links (usually the one at the lower link) and you'll have SUPER flex. I've done that to a couple rigs...in fact one's still here. If you ask please I may be persuaded to go take a pic for ya ;)

[Mechanos]

Na really, talk to Rueben and JoshC ~ you should have seen the way their rigs work at the Rubi, its best to get real-world experience rather than hear-say.
Yup, that's one of the reasons I posted this... so people with real world experience could reply.;)

[Snoopy]

Frame Mounts
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210743&d=1129665144

Axle Mounts
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210742&d=1129664910

BAcking up a bit
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210741&d=1129664910

Trackbar mount to "frame"
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210740&d=1129664910

Upper link to lower link mount. This is the pin you pull when you want it to flex.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210736&d=1129664707

[Mechanos]

Isn't that what they call a 'wristed radius arm'? The front link system I was thinking of in the front has an upper and lower link on the passenger side, a lower link only on the drivers side and a track bar (drivers side frame to passenger side axle, of course).

EDIT: OK, after looking closer at your pics, it looks like you're showing me the rear link setup. I think I'm going to go with some sort of triangulated 4-link. I had your pics confused with a front link setup. The setup I described in this post was for a front link system.

[Snoopy]

We've used this setup in the front as well. It works very well and can be done for next-to-nothing. The biggest expence is the hiems/bushings. DOM is managable, and the axle mounts can be found at BTF or the like. If you do both front and back with this setup I'd be surprised if you're into it more than $800 (joints included).

The big benifet of having the upper links on both sides is that it'll turn your axles into sway-bars. So body roll on the street will be slim-to-none. Then, with a little for-planning, you can make it twist just as well as what you're talking about (only one upper) by using a linch-pin in one of the upper link-to-lower-link hiems. Once that is pulled, it'll flex like made.

Thats what we are planning on doing with this system. Now that Paul put the engine in it, we'll be finishing off the front end.

[Mechanos]

Hmmm.... food for thought.

I wonder about using the setup I described but adding the removable upper component to the drivers side to make a wristed radius arm on that side for street manners, but leaving the passenger side seperate upper and lower links.

So you're not using the trinagulated 4-link setup on the rear like you advertise on your site?

[Snoopy]

This is my machinist's buggy I've been building over the last month. Its a Jeep CJ frame with a "comp-cut" YJ body and one of those crawler front hoods on it ~ that's why you haven't seen it in the weekend updates.

We've toy'd around with this style on a couple rigs, to see how it turns out, and he wanted to try this style link suspension in back. It'll work, but it doesn't work as well as the normal 4-link system I have on Rusty or in any of the projects.

The nice thing is that it is REAL clean on the axle. The problem is that getting proper lengths on the track-bar is difficult. Normally they are too short and that causes the axle to be pushed back and forth while flexing. Its not *bad* but it definately isn't optimal. Most people make high and wide mounts (you'll see that on comp buggies) to keep the axle alignment more optimal. Either way, it works well. I'm just experimenting with it right now.

[Binder]

How about link it and keep the leaf springs?

[slipscomb]

Here's my front 3-link. I'm using Ford 4" coils on front and 2" lift coils in back since I lightened the back up soo much. I set this up around my 345 even though I'm runnin the 3fitty now.

http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb032.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb029.jpg

Here's where I shaved all the mounts off the side of the frame and welded on the replacement brackets for the 4-link and skid plate. Motor and tranny is in stock location.
http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb026.jpg

[slipscomb]

Here are some closeups of the front suspension I took last week....

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/d3e08d45.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/45a8e535.jpg

Front coil mounts....

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/ba38c916.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/d7a9c19d.jpg

Hope this helps....good luck.

Sean

[Binder]

Slipscomb, what does that thing weigh?

[reuben]

snoopy, if you pull the upper half of the lower links out, there would be nothing to stop the axle wrap. it could be done on one side but not both. i am running a set up like slips on the front. you have seen how well it works. i used the wildhorses 5.5 coils with my 345 and went to the 3.5's withh my 350.

[slipscomb]

Slipscomb, what does that thing weigh?

Alot! I've never weighed it but judging from the way it wheels I would guess that it is not much more than a stock Scout. I've cut alot off and switched motors but addrd bigger tires, axles, skidplate and xfer case. One day I will drive it over some scales at a truck stop.

Sean

[RustoleumWhite]

I was thinking (that ALWAYS seems to get me in trouble) that since I'm going to have to redo my suspension when I swap the 1-ton axles in, why not link it and run coil springs. The weenie little 2" leaves just aren't gonna cut it with the 1-tons. In the rear, I'm thinking 4-link and possibly some Bronco coils from Wild Horses. For the front, I'm toying with the idea of going with an asymetrical 4-link (fancy name for 3-link with a track bar) also on coils.... but I don't know which ones. Would the Wild Horses coils also work well on the front? or would I need something a little heavier to handle the weight of the 345?

Let's hear your opinions.....
If I ever get off my ass and do up the new truck, I'll snap plenty of pictures and share with you.


From Reuben and Josh's advice I'm planning on either Duff or Wild Horses coils (the WH's are a little cheaper).

Rear will be S&N style 4-link, since it works VERY well and they are in my back yard (i.e. advice, part and help :), for the front I'm going back and forth on the 3-link w/panhard, 3-link wish-bone, 4-link or "missing Link" 3-link w/pahard.

Really depends on steering box or full hydro, and what fits.



I really wish I had a shop to start working on these things in.... :(

[Mechanos]

I leaning towards the asymetrical 4-link since I plan on running a steering box and drag link. I got ahold of Dan Barcroft's 3-link Calculator... I just need to get some rough measurements to plug into it and start playing around with it.

[Snoopy]

snoopy, if you pull the upper half of the lower links out, there would be nothing to stop the axle wrap. it could be done on one side but not both.
Exactly, I thought I had communicated that only one top link was to be un-pinned, otherwise :nuke:

[Mechanos]

Reuben and/or JoshC,

I was looking at some pics of both of your rigs and noticed that you appear to be using the same upper coil buckets on your rear suspension. What are these buckets from and where can I get them?

[ih4ever]

what do you guys think about going with 5 inch bronco coils up front with damians quater elliptic in the rear??? great flex!! i had a friend who got the bronco 5 in coils and said if he had to do it again he would get the 3 inch because the coils bow out too much when flexing...

[SJscouter]

you can buy coil springs from james duff that are for different weights and rates

[Snoopy]

JoshC uses the coil buckets from an EB ~ I think I provided them for him ~ unless he changed them out for something else. I don't have anymore ~ BTW

[reuben]

my coil buckets came off of a 78-79 ford truck, they are actually just bolted on.

[472Scout]

Reuben and/or JoshC,

I was looking at some pics of both of your rigs and noticed that you appear to be using the same upper coil buckets on your rear suspension. What are these buckets from and where can I get them?

Broncos and F250s in 78-79 had bolt on buckets. Later years will work also but they are riveted on and have an integral shock mount. Early Bronco (pre-77') springs are smaller in diameter than full size springs but not enough to matter.

[TheCopperCowboy]

Here's a few pics of what you're looking for. You ain't going Blue Oval on us, are you? :flipoff2:

[Mechanos]

Here's a few pics of what you're looking for. You ain't going Blue Oval on us, are you? :flipoff2:
Yup, that's the stuff. Ummm blue oval..... not really. Sometimes it is nice to find something already made that you can just bolt on instead of have to make everything. At this point, my rig is pretty much "non-denominational":flipoff2: It has IH stuff, Dodge stuff, Ford stuff, Chevy stuff and GMC stuff on it so it's pretty much a mutt.

[TheCopperCowboy]

Well if that's the case, I have 1978 Bronco with a built 460, 435 trans, 205 TC, HP 44, 31 spline 9", and 6" lift just dying for a Scout II body. The frame rails are 7" wider and the wheelbase is only 3" longer. The question is, could you pull it off and will we still respect you in the morning? Oh, and this one is for sale, too. :shaking:

[Mechanos]

Cool..... hack the coil buckets off it and send 'em to me.:flipoff2: