For those who went or know for sure what do most of the competitors start with w/o doing a complete tube frame? I see a few suk frames, any yj or toy truck frames? How do they work compared to the complete tube frames? I continually hear lighter is better? Has anyone won or done extremely well w/ unimog axles? Thanks Scott

Its across the board, you need a well ballanced rig with very good climbability and stability. Different rigs win on differnet days, and different courses. The rig needs to be reliable, enough to last a couple of days of heavy abuse.
It still comes down to the driver and spotter.

Well, I competed for 2 years, so I guess I know for 'sure.' When we all started at the very first competition, we all had what I call 'normal' rigs. We were running a 77 CJ7, TPI 383, 44s with Detroits fr/rr, and 33 inch tires. We finished in the dirty dozen right behind the Sniper with 44 inch tires. Jeff Waggoneer won the competition with a spring under CJ7, detroits and 44s.

We finished 9th in the first season and 16th last season. Now we have a tube frame rig with Unimog axles. Since they didn't do different divisions, you have to build up in order to compete.

Light, unbreakable, little longer wheelbase, balance, finesse and consistency is what it takes to win. Charlie finished this weekends competition in 11th after a couple of breakdowns on the new rig.

HTH,
Shannon

Shannon, congrats on you and Charlie's 11th place finish. I'm glad the new rig worked well.

Forgot to clarify, I'm not spotting this year for Charlie. I moved last year from UT to NC and flew out for all the competitions. Unfortunately, I was not able to do that this year. I am SO bummed and was having major withdrawals this weekend! Tim is spotting for him now and they will get better as they wheel together more. Charlie and I wheeled together for almost 10 years and I think we made a great team. We trusted each other and that makes a big difference in how successful you are. I miss it bad!

Shannon

Originally posted by Shannon
Forgot to clarify, I'm not spotting this year for Charlie. I moved last year from UT to NC and flew out for all the competitions. Unfortunately, I was not able to do that this year. I am SO bummed and was having major withdrawals this weekend! Tim is spotting for him now and they will get better as they wheel together more. Charlie and I wheeled together for almost 10 years and I think we made a great team. We trusted each other and that makes a big difference in how successful you are. I miss it bad!

Shannon

yeah shannon I watched ya that first year..you guys rocked

My buddy tied for 2nd wt first one in Las cruses..

Jimmy Leavry (sp?)

he was runnign 44 - 60 injected 360 and stuff (he was on 38's already) and a sweet driver...

alot has changed some stuff will always be the same.. hope you can get wheeling alot down there..

later
-Austin

There's a half dozen RCAA rigs that started out as FJ40 Land Cruisers. Not a whole lot left, but there are traces of the original frames. That includes Lance Clifford's, Don Robbin's and Tracey Jordan's rigs, among others.

I think as time goes by, more and more RCAA participants will switch to full-on tube frames designed around a chosen drivetrain and suspension systems.

Shannon, thanks for the info. How have you liked the Unimogs compared to 44s or 60s? What do most guys run wheel base wise? We are thinkin 2 front steer uni's. I just see it as why pay $$$$$ for Dyna 60's when you can get gearing and clearance up the &%# for $2400 for 2 unimogs. Most people seem to cringe a the idea but, I'd like to hear more in favor. What about frame wise? Do you have any pics?
Thanks a ton. Scott

Here's a scaled-down evolution of Charlies rig since we started competing.

Because it is a business now, we (or Charlie) approached it like a business and the rigs evolution is evident in this approach. Note that Charlie is a very talented mechanic and fabricator. If you had to pay someone for all of this work, it would cost a BIG wad of cash. We also had some great sponsors. Every little bit helps.

For all of the mods of the "TJ-7", the drivetrain basically stayed the same: tuned-port stroked 350 (383), 700R4, and Dana 300. The new rig runs a supercharged Bonneville 3.8, 700R4 and an Atlas II.

Like I mentioned earlier, we started with 44s, then added a 60 rear, then went 60s front and rear, then went Tera 60s front and rear and full hydraulic steering, and now the new rig is running 'mog portals.

We started with leafs on all 4 corners and then put a TJ frame on and ran the TJ-style 4 link, then moved the axles forward and back to stretch the stock TJ wheelbase to 100 inches and all 4 links were the same length. We used first stock and then custom length/strength Teraflex arms front and rear. Next mod was to moved the lower arm mounts up into the frame.

That is how the rig ended the season last year. We finished 9th place overall the first year and 15th place overall last year (1st competition killed our season with 4 driveshafts breaking on the first day).

After RRCA decided not to separate the rigs into classes, we decided that we must step up the rig in order to remain competitive (plus we knew everyone else was doing the same). We have been closely watching what everyone else was doing, knew the weaknesses in our current setup, knew the strengths in our current setup, and talked about what we wanted. What we wanted/needed was a lighter rig, a little longer wheelbase, rear steer option, and lower center of gravity. Charlie then did his magic and drew it out and formed the ideas in his head. Since I moved cross-country last year, I was just moral support on the phone and via email.

Charlie and friend/fellow competitor Jeff Price (champagne colored CJ6 last year), with the help of a few others, built 3 almost identical rigs over the winter and they were all 3 finally finished the Wednesday before the competition. The first one was put together about 5 weeks earlier and had a trial run with a virgin driver at the UROCC competition in St. George, UT and placed 16th. It worked so well, we were very encouraged about finishing the other two. The differences between the 3 are the motors: Scott's is an Orange, TPI 383, 700R4, Atlas II; Jeff's is a Vortec 4.3, Turbo 350, Atlas II; and Charlies is the 3.8, &00R4, and Atlas II.

Like I said earlier, Charlie and Tim placed 11th after a major break on the first day (bolts on the steering knuckle). Take off the 40 for that obstacle they broke on and add in average points that they would have likely gotten, and they would have been 5th overall. That is very encouraging for a brand new rig. Also, they will get better as Tim and Charlie work together more as a team.

Wow, long-winded on this one. Sorry about that! Hope it answered your questions.
Shannon

Forgot to really answer the question as I 'waxed verbose' on the evolution of the rig. LOVE the 'mog axles. Nothing can compete with ground clearance on the obstacles. I found some pics online of Charlie's and Jeff's rig. You can see how they turned out.


http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/ARCA4/arca4Friday.htm
2nd from bottom (red hood) is Jeff Price's rig; good shot of the clearance underneath, rear 4 link and mog axle (identical to Charlie's except for 4.3 vortec and Turbo 350)

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/ARCA4/Saturday/arca4Saturday.htm
5th down is Charlie, #41 (supercharged 3.8 and 700R4)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/trailreports/rrca_farmington02/thursday/[/url]

030-033 are Charlie at check in.

As for what frames people are using, if they are using a non-tube chassis, they are tubing the rear of the rig. For example, Joe Randall's CJ and the Currie's TJ, frames are cut right behind the front seats and the rear is tubed and narrow with coilovers.

HTH,
Shannon