Stock Hummers On 44 / 14-Bolt [Archive] - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

TheCopperCowboy

10-20-2005, 08:00 PM

Here's a few pics with the fit and issues with stock BS Hummer wheels.:smokin:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211209&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211210&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211211&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211212&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211213&stc=1&d=1129859705

TheCopperCowboy

10-20-2005, 08:35 PM

Here's some more. Sorry guys, still ain't got a handle on these dang pics!

Mechanos

10-20-2005, 08:37 PM

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211209&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211210&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211211&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211212&stc=1&d=1129859705
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211213&stc=1&d=1129859705

Mechanos

10-20-2005, 08:39 PM

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211218&d=1129862110
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211219&d=1129862110
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211220&d=1129862110
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211221&d=1129862110
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211222&d=1129862110

TheCopperCowboy

10-20-2005, 09:31 PM

Thanks, Torc! I think I'm going to go with 2" spacers and solve both issues with front stick out and recess the rear hubs, plus wind up with a 71" wms. What's you thoughts about that? Now, I need to order the rock rings and PVC inserts, tires. The Scouts stance is set as if it was on 36" tires. 3" body lift, 2" blocks on the rear, and re-do the shackles on front RS, 37" easy. :cool2:

Mechanos

10-20-2005, 09:51 PM

The rear hub stick out is quite acceptable in my book, but that front hub stick out is just plain nasty. If you're not going to recenter the wheels, you will definately need spacers up front. And if you space the fronts out, you will need spacers in the rear to make it match the front width.

DJForrestA

10-20-2005, 10:10 PM

If its a trail rig ditch the lockouts and run the flanges and you won't have any stickout. Flanges are cheap in stock form and you can keep the lockouts onboard incase you blow one. Also if you go with two inch spacers you'll end up with 74 up front and 72 in the rear. I have a set of Dana 70 4.56 gears like new with pinion bearing I'll sell for 120 shipped. BTW if any of you guys run an airport tug rear be aware the only gearset available for that application is 4.88. It was custom made just for the airport tugs. The PVC inserts will be a ton easier to mount up than the runflats and won't tear up your tire if you get a flat. You're definatly looking good. I love how my scout looks on the military hummer wheels and the civi aluminum ones also. I'll trade you my drive flanges for your lockouts. My budget is shot but I'm a DD and have some front driveshaft vibration at 50 and above.

TheCopperCowboy

10-20-2005, 10:38 PM

Amen to budgets being shot! I still think I have the 67" WMS to WMS width. I'll double check tomorrow when I put the recycled tires back on. (A buddy gave me his DD 35"s with 1/2 tread). Want to keep the lockouts and I feel the spacers and rock rings should protect them from damage. Would the Dana 70 gears fit the 44 or 14-bolt? I think 4:56 would be a good ratio with a 5.0 Atlas. The 4:88 would rock with the 4.3 Atlas. I'm going to be having one hell of a garage sale this winter to build my junk for next spring. (Snoopy, are you taking trades?) Need a suspension, high steer, motor mount / transfercase fabrication, roll cage, and ............:grinpimp:

DJForrestA

10-20-2005, 11:06 PM

Sorry tired didn't realize you had a 44/14 combo going. No the gears won't work for that just a 70. Good luck. Pick up some drive flanges to have on hand incase your lockouts go. Nice to have as a trail backup. Should be damn near free. I'll have a set I'm taking off a blazer soon and I'll send them to you when I get them replaced. Make sure you get new o rings for your wheels and soap them up good when you mount the tires so they will work the first time. Good luck bro. If you want to run 37's I have 11 37 x16.5 tires. I can sent you some military OZ Muds and a swamper for a spare cheap if you want. The oz goodyear muds have about 3/4 tread. One has a couple patches but they all hold air great and drive fine.

TheCopperCowboy

10-20-2005, 11:17 PM

That would be great! Send pics, maybe I can throw you some project money for the tires. Won't know exactly what size until the suspension is ironed out, but I'll keep that in mind. Thanks again! :)

Eagle-Mark

10-20-2005, 11:26 PM

That 14 bolt has less hub sticking out then my Dana 60 rear. I hit them on rocks and grind. Hasn't bothered it yet and never loosened a bolt.

Why does the rear axle width have to be the same? Mines about 6 inches narrower, kind of helps in tight turns. I don't see a disadvantage? Here in Idaho staying narrow is more important on a lot of trails.

I whacked off the original tie rod mounts and went full high steer. Again to keep it narrow this way no spacer is needed... if you guys want I'll give you Marlo's phone and call him to make a set of these high steer arms. I still have to try one more but you could probably get a set in a month or so... he's the same machinist who built the GM clone EFI distributor for me. He still does them too.

Hubs in the front are an issue! I've thought about a rock ring with hub protection. But soon it'll be on a trailer and I'll have flanged axles up front.

Speaking of rock rings if your really worried about hubs and axles you better think of rock rings to. I already have several bead dents. The rock ring would eliminate that.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211254&d=1129872391

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211255&d=1129872391

TheCopperCowboy

10-20-2005, 11:41 PM

Yeah, I'm all for that. Holy Cross tried to ground the lead weights off the rims and we were nursing 'em on the trail. Rock rings from 66CJdean are definatly on the to do list. :smokin:

Eagle-Mark

10-21-2005, 12:19 AM

Yeah, I'm all for that. Holy Cross tried to ground the lead weights off the rims and we were nursing 'em on the trail. Rock rings from 66CJdean are definitely on the to do list. :smokin:
Inside these wheels are his PVC inserts for double bead lock!

I never even tried lead wheel weights, knew they wouldn't last a day. Was going to do the ceramic beads for internal balance but I think on a trailer there will be no more highway miles...

Mechanos

10-21-2005, 07:14 AM

WOW :eek: Mad wicked flex!!!!!!!! :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211254&d=1129872391

The front and the rear don't have to be the same width. In fact, I prefer the front axle to be a tad wider than the rear, but a 6" difference is a little bit much for my tastes.

...Holy Cross tried to ground the lead weights off the rims and we were nursing 'em on the trail...
Holy Cross was a cake walk :flipoff2: but I did pick up a few scratches on the rim on the Rubicon. Actually, though, my 12.50 SX's on an 8" wheel balloon out far enough that the rim is pretty protected. I did contact the edge of one wheel, and from the scar left behind, I'm pretty sure a stock hmmwv wheel would have peeled back. Rock rings of some sort for the hmmwv wheels are a must in my book.

Eagle-Mark

10-21-2005, 11:42 AM

geberhard

10-21-2005, 02:37 PM

Spacers are bling :)

Agree, no need to have spacers in the back, way better on turning radius to have front wider.

Gui

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/1hummerspacers.jpg

Eagle-Mark

10-21-2005, 03:15 PM

Hummer wheel offset brings the wheel in so far it reduces scrub. Meaning the wheel pivots on the center point (ball joints) and does no swing (increases scrub) making it harder to turn. Keeping them in makes them turn so much easier with Scout II PS and box. If you have hyd assist I guess it doesn't matter. Still need a larger wheel well for tire swing instead of pivot...

TheCopperCowboy

10-21-2005, 03:49 PM

WOW :eek: Mad wicked flex!!!!!!!! :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211254&d=1129872391

The front and the rear don't have to be the same width. In fact, I prefer the front axle to be a tad wider than the rear, but a 6" difference is a little bit much for my tastes.

Holy Cross was a cake walk :flipoff2: but I did pick up a few scratches on the rim on the Rubicon. Actually, though, my 12.50 SX's on an 8" wheel balloon out far enough that the rim is pretty protected. I did contact the edge of one wheel, and from the scar left behind, I'm pretty sure a stock hmmwv wheel would have peeled back. Rock rings of some sort for the hmmwv wheels are a must in my book.

That's because I was spotting for you. :rolleyes: Whoever was spotting for me must've been carbon dating the rocks. Ground off lead weights and rear pinion u-bolts, a vibration in the rear driveshaft I don't want to know about, and the front spring slipping out of the mount. No, it ain't real carnage, but these things can be prevented with the proper armor. :flipoff2:

TheCopperCowboy

10-21-2005, 04:03 PM

Here's cj66dean rock rings for H1 Hummer wheels.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311042&highlight=cj66dean

Price cut on Hummer wheel centers and Rock Rings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Price slash on rock rings and centers!
I have wheels now so I am taking orders on complete wheel packages again.
Wheel, recentered, bead blasted, primered, with a plastic runflat, and new hardware starts at $220.
Add $20 for rebar ring installed
Add $65 for Laser cut rock ring installed

Bad news is I don't have enough wheels to just sell the wheels.
I picked up a new laser cutter that can give me a better price so I am cutting my price on the stuff I have down to the old price they were back before the big steel hike! This will be my new price once again on the new stuff. Wheel centers are once again $50 and Rock Rings will also be $50.(for the snowflake pattern)
Runflats are $55ea and Rebar rings are $6ea. I don't have any wheels at this time so no complete wheel packages at this time.
If you have wheels and want them recentered then that is $100ea wheel and covers the cost of a new center, me cutting out the old center on the milling machine, jig welding in the new center, countersinking the holes, bead blasting the wheel, and primering it.
Here is the snowflake

3/8" laser cut Rock Rings

Plastic runflats. Here is one on a wheel.

__________________
WWW.PERFORMANCECRYOGENICS.COM
Deep Cryogenic Tempering Service
916-434-69783/8" laser cut Rock Rings

Mechanos

10-21-2005, 04:12 PM

That's because I was spotting for you. :rolleyes: Whoever was spotting for me must've been carbon dating the rocks. Ground off lead weights and rear pinion u-bolts, a vibration in the rear driveshaft I don't want to know about, and the front spring slipping out of the mount. No, it ain't real carnage, but these things can be prevented with the proper armor. :flipoff2:
Yeah, you did a better spotting job because I made your job easy. I gave you 36's on a D44 to spot over the rocks. You gave me 33's on an unshaved 14-bolt with and extra skid plate attached to the bottom of it. I did a fine job of spotting you through the gravel parking lot, but once we got on rocks over 1" diameter, I was screwed.:shaking: I wasn't calling you "Rock Plow" on the CB for nothing!!:laughing: :flipoff2:

Mechanos

10-21-2005, 04:14 PM

Here's cj66dean rock rings for H1 Hummer wheels.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311042&highlight=cj66dean

I think I'm just going to go for the rebar rings myself. Those other ones are nice, but kinda pricey too.

TheCopperCowboy

10-21-2005, 04:22 PM

Aside from peeling the rim upon impact, (sharp rock, ledge), just how strong is a piece of rebar? I don't feel there's enough structual support, but if it happens, you'd probably have worse damage than that to worry about. :grinpimp:

Eagle-Mark

10-23-2005, 12:41 AM

I was hopeing someone would have answered that? Isn't rebar kinda soft?

budget76

10-23-2005, 05:21 PM

looks like you're doing a fair amount of work to that one:cool2:

sorry, but i sold the inserts this weekend. i didnt have the time to deal with shipping or you would have gotten them. also, what are you doing with the tires that were on it/what were they. i saved pics of the truck off of ebay, and i still havent figured out what they were

TheCopperCowboy

10-23-2005, 06:48 PM

A past worker of mine replaced his 35" off his Bl*zer for the winter and gave them to me with about 1/2 tread. The 33" tires that were on it originally were recaps with major sidewall cracking, (and to think I was hauling 65 - 70 down I-70, death wish, I guess), but the ones on there now will be for sale after I get the Hummer wheels set up and 37" - 38" meats on 'em. :smokin: 8-lug 15" with decent 35"x12.50x15 Goodyear Wranglers, make offer!

budget76

10-23-2005, 07:48 PM

damn, i liked the look of the ones that were on there. heck, doin 70 on dryrotted tires cant be much worse than 65 with loose steering and a bent spring:laughing: :eek: i will be in the market for tires, but i dont think 35's are gonna fit unless i tub the rear, and right now i'm not goin there:cool2:

why do you want to get rid of the buggy springs in the front? i personally dont know much about the setup, and have never ridden in a truck with buggy's, but if you were doing 75 it doesnt sound like they are bad on the street?

TheCopperCowboy

10-23-2005, 08:11 PM

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211609&stc=1&d=1130119276

This is what happens when it was overextended. I have a idea in mind, and everyone else will poo poo the idea, :flipoff2: but it's my junk. Suspension mods will more than likely happen on next year's build. I'm up to my ears in early & big Br*ncos, so coil sprung front and rear supensions could happen. A builder in Centennial done his EB that way and I would like to see it in action. :D

TERRA-IZER

10-23-2005, 08:18 PM

For the outer ring on the Hummer wheels. 3/8" round stock bent in a circle then set into the outer lip and welded in works good to strengthen it up, doesn't look as cool as those high dollar rock rings but works as good for a lot less.

Mechanos

10-23-2005, 08:41 PM

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211609&stc=1&d=1130119276

This is what happens when it was overextended. I have a idea in mind, but everyone else will poo poo the idea, :flipoff2: but it's my junk. Suspension mods will more than likely happen on next year's build. I'm up to my ears in early & big Br*ncos, so coil sprung front and rear supensions could happen. A builder in Centennial done his EB that way and I would like to see it in action. :D
Yeah, fixing that on the trail did pretty much suck. Not something I'd want to do often. Send me some Bronco parts!!!!:flipoff2:

TheCopperCowboy

10-23-2005, 08:56 PM

Check your e-mail. Cutting up the early shtuff kind of goes against my religion. :evil: The big Br*nco shinizit is open game and you propably have yards full of it. The BC Br*nco arms are a little pricey and you would still need a track bar and mount, but the e-mail shows the weld-on c bushings and end caps. The big Br*nco spring cups are bolt on, the EB snuff ain't. :smokin:

P.S., I might have a buyer for all the Br*nco crap, now I can get some chrome KC lights for my rollbar. :flipoff2:

Mechanos

10-23-2005, 09:08 PM

All I really want is the coil buckets.... no way I'd run all that wedge crap and radius arm bullshit. I'm in the design process now on the front asymetrical 4-link and the rear triangulated 4-link. At the current stage in the plans... both front and rear will be on coils.

RustoleumWhite

10-23-2005, 09:19 PM

hey, if you can hook Mech. up and still have some left-over buckets, I'd like 4 of them as well....

just let me know.

geberhard

10-24-2005, 10:46 AM

Daim Copper Cowboy! That si sick damage, looks like the spring reversed and bind. What about putting a stop at about 90 degrees?

TheCopperCowboy

10-24-2005, 11:10 PM

It's kind of perfect system with a few inherited flaws. The rears are bolted through a channel and the spring eye mounts and pinned against the frame rails. How much flex does it have. Don't know, too chickenshit to find out.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211917&stc=1&d=1130216310

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211918&stc=1&d=1130216310

Now the front suspension is loose in the channel and overextension would / could allow the mounting spring to slide out. Plus, I have one flipped shackle and the side that slipped out is cocked. Just ain't trusting this set up. :shaking:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211920&stc=1&d=1130216780

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211921&stc=1&d=1130216780
The springs are flexy, I would like a shackle mount the would drop an additional 8" or go coil spring this winter. :smokin:

R290

10-24-2005, 11:33 PM

Learning some new skills
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211925&d=1130217267

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211926&d=1130217267

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211927&d=1130217267

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211928&d=1130217319

MajorPayne

10-29-2005, 01:10 AM

well this may be a stupid question...or maybe i didnt read well enough, but where did you source your hummer wheels and spacers? i shouldnt have a problem finding the wheels, but i was wondering about the spacers...also im still running the stock bolt pattern on my stock 44's and havent got any solid info on the best way to switch them over to 8 lug, everything i read points me in a different direction, but then again, maybe im not paying attention well enough, TIA

TheCopperCowboy

10-29-2005, 07:29 PM

Here or eBay for the Hummer wheels and 66cjdean for new centers. I've seen spacers on eBay, but I'm looking elsewhere, although they're probably all the same. :smokin:

RustoleumWhite

10-29-2005, 08:40 PM

...also im still running the stock bolt pattern on my stock 44's and havent got any solid info on the best way to switch them over to 8 lug, everything i read points me in a different direction, but then again, maybe im not paying attention well enough, TIA

Swapping 5 on 5.5 outer for 8-lug outers on a D44 is easy.

Find a GM 3/4T D44 or corp 10-bolt (1973 to 1987 for the most part). Remove knuckles out (including knuckle and stub shaft) Remove all the stock scout stuff (knuckles out) and bolt on the GM stuff. Problem solved and you gained 3" of over all width as well. You'll need to adapt brake lines, but thats easy.

Ford or Dodge outers would work as well, but the GM stuff is more common.

If you get Flat-Tops (the drivers side will be, the passenger side it the less common one) and you can go high-steer.

Simple.

TheCopperCowboy

10-29-2005, 09:10 PM

Swapping 5 on 5.5 outer for 8-lug outers on a D44 is easy.

Find a GM 3/4T D44 or corp 10-bolt (1973 to 1987 for the most part). Remove knuckles out (including knuckle and stub shaft) Remove all the stock scout stuff (knuckles out) and bolt on the GM stuff. Problem solved and you gained 3" of over all width as well. You'll need to adapt brake lines, but thats easy.

Ford or Dodge outers would work as well, but the GM stuff is more common.

If you get Flat-Tops (the drivers side will be, the passenger side it the less common one) and you can go high-steer.

Simple.

What do you do about the rear axle pattern? :confused:

Mechanos

10-29-2005, 09:30 PM

Swap in an 8-lug axle, silly.....:flipoff2:

TheCopperCowboy

10-29-2005, 09:50 PM

How 'bout it? Ain't seen an 8 lug Dana 44 before. Am I missing something? The front axle is cake, the rear needs swapping. :flipoff2: Plus, with spacers on the front, you won't need to change the Hummer wheel lug pattern or the offset. :smokin:

RustoleumWhite

10-30-2005, 07:07 PM

Only option is to build something for the rear.

Simple fact of "upgrading" to 8-lug anything.... besides, if your going to run something heavy like hummer rims, and probably good sized tires to go with it, then you shouldn't even be thinking of a D44 in the rear.

The only thing you going to get "close" to no work, is a C&C 14-bolt, ~63" flange to flange, same witdth (or really close) to a Scout D44 with 8-lug outers. However it is a little nicer to run a rear thats a little narrower, so your looking at custom.

You *could* have Dutchman (or simular) make a set of 8-lug shafts for the rear D44.... I think, part of me wants to say they don't offer a flange that big to make SF 8-lug shafts... but if your going to do that you might as well build a D60 or 9" for the center.... go big or regret it later.

"Best" IMO would be a D60 center with Corp-14b outers, and 35-spline shafts.... Figure about 1K though to do it right.... and thats with "deals".

R290

10-30-2005, 08:24 PM

For no deals or "work" Full floating 14 bolt, 5.13 gear ratio, Detroit locker, disc brakes with calipers, heavy duty cover, shaved housing, drain plug, 65” wide, 8 lug pattern. $1750
WFO Axle link (http://www.wfoconcepts.com/Axles/D44_05.html)

Ok that sounds like a lot more than the junkyard axle for $125 that just needs TLC, Gears, locker and everything else you can think of or have cash on hand for.

geberhard

10-31-2005, 09:46 AM

I have way less than $1750 on my rear 14 bolt, but think the $1750 may not be that bad a price since you are getting it professionally built, gears of your choice, disck brakes, etc. WFO's stuff kick ass.

You can find a 14 bolt rear for as low as $100, a Detroit will run in the $300-400 range I believe. If you need gears and install kit, plan to spend another $300-400, so you are already in the close to a grand range. Plus converting to disck brakes, another $300-400, depending on parts you get, so the $1750 does not sound that bad after all.

You could luck out, find a 14 bolt in good shape, with gears and already locked, but those are not so easy to find :)

I have a shorty 14 bolt, about 63" WMS-WMS if I am not mistaken, and it kicks ass, just added a pinion protection, and am planning to shave it more, and still need to install the Great Lakes off road dif cover (pretty bullet proof). Was planning to convert to disc soon, but so far the drums have excellent braking power, so will eventually get them swapped, but works greta for now, just "a bit" heavy :)

Gui