I'm thinking of going to a cab & chassis 14-bolt full-floating rear axle and a Dana 60 front axle narrowed to match, under my FJ55.

I believe the cab & chassis 14-bolt is 62" WMS-WMS. I know COMPLAINE is going this route, but I don't think he's got the axles in place yet. (Ian, do you?) If I narrow a D60 to 62" and use the C&C 14-bolt, I think I'd have a pretty good set of axles for the wheeling I like to do.

Do any of you have this config? Any pics? Those of you running D60s front and rear, what axle widths are you running?

Thanks!

Morgan

Morgan

My axles are 62"

tuff foto!!:D :smokin:

Right on!

Morgan

Hey Morgan,

I'm building some RC D60 (front and rear) for my next
FJ40 project. They will be 65" WMS to WMS.

Charles

Front Dana 60s ending with a width of near 65" are IMO the easiest and least expensive way to do this, especially if you are doing it yourself. The GM 1 ton axles are 69" wide (WMS). The difference in spring perch widths between the Cruiser (27") and the GM truick (31.5") means that you can retain the Cruiser perches by shortening the long side of the housing by 4.5". This means that you only need to shorten one axle shaft. Narrowing to less than 64.5" is going to cost more $$ and be considerably more work.

I am almost done narrowing my front axle and will have a write-up on my website soon.:D :D

Jack, narrowing only one side does sound attractive, but what I like about the C&C 14-bolt is that it will already be narrow, at either 62" or 63". (I've read both widths.) If I were to bring a D60 front to 65" I'd have 1.5" extra width on both sides up front and a bad turning radius, right?

Another thing I haven't figured out yet is what requirements the tcase will have for the diff location. I'm thinking I'll remove the 4spd tcase and AA plate from behind my NP203 GRB and put an ORD plate and an NP205 behind that. Not sure where the D60 diff would best be placed to get a straight shot with the front driveshaft.

I'm also a bit leery of going too wide with the axles, from an esthetics point of view and also based on my (limited) wheeling experience. The 55 is long, and making it wider could make it really cumbersome on tight stuff. Also, a long axle that is highly articulated can mean more sheetmetal interference. I want to run 38.5x14.5 SX tires, and I'll go to whatever diff ratio gets me the best road manners and fits with my drivetrain. My gut feeling is 5.13 is appropriate. I'll keep the 2F for now, because I don't want to change everything all at once, and I like my 2F.

Because of the way Butch Lewis built my rockers (http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/tech/protection/index.html), I don't think I'll be able to trim the rear wheel arch on the forward side, so I'd probably move my rear axle back a bit and trim for the tire. Front should be straightforward.

Not sure if the springs will need any changes. They're McCoy/MAF/JTO 2" over stock FJ55 springs, with the clamps opened up, using Specter's slightly-longer-than-stock greasable shackles.

One more question: Why are D60 F&R more common on rock crawlers than D60 F 14-bolt R? The 14-bolt seems like a really good axle for a heavy rock crawler, and they are cheap. Only downside is weight, that I can see, and less R&P ratios available. What am I missing?

Morgan

hay morgan <<< dana 60 in front hot !!!! but cruiser front ends are tuff < with the new birfeilds , & wheel spacers works for me !!! my 55 will never crawl up a wall no matter what I do to it !! almost tho !! any way I think 14 bolt houseing is bigger ???less ground clearance ?? I might be wrong !!! you can build adana 60 ,,,, with detroit locker, 35 spline axles , disk brakes 58" wide , for about 1200 to 1400 $$$$ if you all ready have gears ???

Mike, you're one of the people that made me think about changing axles. I really like the way your 55 is set up. I could stay with a toyota front. Heck, I could stay with a toyota rear. But I want to run 38x14.5, and I would have to make plenty of compromises to run those tires with stock axles. In my last two outings I've broken a birfield and a pinion. An anti-wrap bar (!) and some of those Bobby Long birfields would help, sure.

Part of me just can't stop scratching that itch, you know?

I think my axles are 55" now, I believe that's the width wms-wms of stock 40/55 axles. I could run a ~58" D60 in the rear and keep the stock front with spacers, but I think a little more width would be good. I've had the 55 on its side (http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/ranch/img_0286-md.jpg) once already.

What's making up my mind is that I found a guy selling a C&C dually 14-bolt rear axle with a 4.56 open diff for $250, a couple towns over. That is just too easy. I will wheel this season with stuff as it is, but I'd like to get the axles and an NP205 ready for a swap next winter.

Grunt!

Morgan

Another question, and I know it's a F.A.Question. Pardon me.

What kind of Dana 60 should I get?

It will go in the front of an SOA FJ55, and it will get narrowed. I will want a low gear, probably 5.13, a manual locker and disc brakes.

I would like to keep it budget, so I'm definitely not looking for tera60 stuff, just modified junkyard.

Thanks!

Morgan

morgan, I KNOW NOTHING !!! about front dana 60s , that 14 bolt is 6 lug ??? your going to need alocker ? right ?? now you got 650.00$$$$ in it !!! another way to go is dana 60 rear end with toyota mini truck axles in it !! cut ends off dana 6o & put mini truck end on it !! mini trucks are 58 """ wide , they have strong axles you could probaly do that very cheap !!

this is all very sad to me, another 55 losing its guts.
i have been thinking about the possibilty of putting a stronger(D60?) pinion in the stock cruiser rear 3rd. i wish i had a spare 3rd for measuring.

Originally posted by RHINO
this is all very sad to me, another 55 losing its guts.

Relax, it's still a cruiser. I'm just doing what Toyota would have done, if they set out to make a Land Cruiser purpose-built for rocks.


i have been thinking about the possibilty of putting a stronger(D60?) pinion in the stock cruiser rear 3rd. i wish i had a spare 3rd for measuring.

All-Pro Off-Road does something like that (http://www.allprooffroad.com/d60.html).

Morgan

Morgan,

I would lean towards a chevy 60 for the front, that way you can get 35 spline outers from dana. I went with a ford in my 40 and had the tubes pulled, swapped and shortened, I thought I needed the high pinion in the front I was wrong. The tubing work cost me about what Warden's gets for a cut and turn on a 40 axle. It is no big thing to get an inner axle shortened, call dutchman or moser for the price.

Also you need to think if you want 8 bolt rims, I think with the 14 bolt your choice is 8 bolt or 8 bolt. I know shawn is running a 14 bolt in the rear of his 40 and it's a DD.
I think with the extra length of a 55 that with the 2F and a manual box into a doubler back into a set of 1 ton axles and you could wheel where ever you wanted and load that piggy down to blocks and not break!
Also you might give fj junkie a shout, I think his 60's are 61" - 63" though they are RC60.

I run my axels at full width and love it.
69" Front
67" Rear
However,,,, there are some trails where the full width can make it interesting.
I'm in the process of getting some hummer wheels to help with the Very Wide stance that I have.

Originally posted by 55 guy
that 14 bolt is 6 lug ??? your going to need alocker ? right ?? now you got 650.00$$$$ in it !!! another way to go is dana 60 rear end with toyota mini truck axles in it !! cut ends off dana 6o & put mini truck end on it !! mini trucks are 58 """ wide , they have strong axles you could probaly do that very cheap !!

14-bolt is 8-lug, although I did find this page (http://www.allprooffroad.com/d60.html) that seems to show a six-lug pattern adapted on a 14-bolt axle shaft.

Locker is either a detroit for cheap, or welded, or maybe a spool. (Heard there's one coming.)

I would like to keep my wheels, so six-lug would be nice, but some cheapo 8-lug wheels would work for me too. I would like to get some beadlocks. Ooh, or hummer wheels.

I'm still think 62" would be a good width.

Would I need fender flares for the law?

Morgan

Originally posted by Shawn
I run my axels at full width and love it.
69" Front
67" Rear
However,,,, there are some trails where the full width can make it interesting.
I'm in the process of getting some hummer wheels to help with the Very Wide stance that I have.

Pics?

Morgan

Originally posted by krcruiser
I would lean towards a chevy 60 for the front, that way you can get 35 spline outers from dana.

Also you need to think if you want 8 bolt rims, I think with the 14 bolt your choice is 8 bolt or 8 bolt. I know shawn is running a 14 bolt in the rear of his 40 and it's a DD.
I think with the extra length of a 55 that with the 2F and a manual box into a doubler back into a set of 1 ton axles and you could wheel where ever you wanted and load that piggy down to blocks and not break!
Also you might give fj junkie a shout, I think his 60's are 61" - 63" though they are RC60.

Thanks! Sadly, "Big Stinky" has left Alan's ownership, but he made out OK. I will ask him about axles. I know those were custom D60s, so I'm afraid of what he might tell me.

Yeah, I think the 55 with 1-ton axles would rock! NP205 is 2:1 low? I'd have about 135:1 low with 5.13 diff gears I really would like to run 38x14s.

Thanks for your reply,

Morgan

Hey Morgan!!! Whats up !!! :beer: :D

God damn! your gonna do it huh? Cool.
I gotta admit, In a couple weeks my 55 is getting gutted. I am pullin the 2f and the non usa 4 speed and dumping in a 350/465/203/3spd crsr case. I picked up a couple "super birfs", and I am finally loosing the 33 boggers and going with 38x14.5 tsl sx.

I am gonna stick with the cruiser axles for now. F it!
A traction bar definately helps that rear pinion problem a TON!, And I guess I will find out if the "super birfs" are all that;)

:beer: :beer: :beer:

i run a cab and chassis dually 14bolt in the rear of my jeep and i narrowed a chevy dana60 front to match. i really like the width and how can you complane about the strength!!!!!

another

Originally posted by fc187
Hey Morgan!!! Whats up !!! :beer: :D

God damn! your gonna do it huh? Cool.
I gotta admit, In a couple weeks my 55 is getting gutted. I am pullin the 2f and the non usa 4 speed and dumping in a 350/465/203/3spd crsr case. I picked up a couple "super birfs", and I am finally loosing the 33 boggers and going with 38x14.5 tsl sx.

I am gonna stick with the cruiser axles for now. F it!
A traction bar definately helps that rear pinion problem a TON!, And I guess I will find out if the "super birfs" are all that;)

:beer: :beer: :beer:

DON!

Good to hear from you. Your plastic water jug is at a friend's house and it's on its way back to you.

Your pig rocks, it will rock harder now. Can't wait to see you on the trail!

Morgan

Thank you for the pics, Brian.

Morgan

Morgan,
The c&c 14 bolt is actually 63 for sure i have one and measued it when i got it. And as for narrowing only one side that is entirely possible with the Cruzah spring width. We narrowed Ian's chevy 60 front one one side and ended up with just about 63 WMS to WMS. It was way fun to do. Ian put the knuckle in the oven at 500 degrees and the axle housing in a bucket of dry ice for a few hours. When we put it all together the knuckle just slid on by hand, seconds later you couldn't budge it with a 10 lb hammer. It would be a good swap, but lots of time and $. But on the other hand that pig is one heavy SOB.

Hey Greg!

Yeah, Andy told the story about "What's that smell?!" (Oh, just a Dana 60 knuckle baking in the oven.)

What tcase is Ian gonna run? How well does the diff line up with it?

Morgan

Relax, it's still a cruiser

kinda, but i know what you mean. i've been thinkin of some "heavy duty" mods.
i have in no particular order,
cummins 4BT
NV4500, 420's and 465's
C6, C4, th350 and 400
203's and 205's
couple 14BFF
a chevy D60 with bent housing.
i have been toying with a total drivetrain revamp, for the front axle i would make a hybrid, toy center with D60 outers. and on the rear i would totally shave a 14B including ring gear, should be same clearance as toy axle.
run the popular 203-205 doubler.
the deisel would just be awsome.
and prolly go with the 4500, cuz i like a manual tranny
we'll see ,,ive been wanting to put a deisel in for a while now, maybe just do the whole thing??
BTW, it still saddens me.

Originally posted by morgan


Pics?

Morgan

Sorry,,, I'm not allowed to post pics here,,, no red star.

If you wish, you can do a search, I have posted a few pics of my conversion back before the red star thing.

Originally posted by RHINO
i have in no particular order,
cummins 4BT
NV4500, 420's and 465's
C6, C4, th350 and 400
203's and 205's
couple 14BFF
a chevy D60 with bent housing.


Sweet!

i have been toying with a total drivetrain revamp, for the front axle i would make a hybrid, toy center with D60 outers. and on the rear i would totally shave a 14B including ring gear, should be same clearance as toy axle.
run the popular 203-205 doubler.
the deisel would just be awsome.
and prolly go with the 4500, cuz i like a manual tranny
we'll see ,,ive been wanting to put a deisel in for a while now, maybe just do the whole thing??

Why not! Do it all at once. The one big thing left on my plate (ha!) after the 1-ton conversion will be engine. I like the 2F, but if I could pick a dream engine it would be a grunty cummins like a 4BDT or a 6AT.

I run the SM465/203 GRB to an LC tcase and I like the mod. A lot of spinning mass, so acceleration is slower and weirder, and there is some strange lash in there, but overall it makes for a great LC drivetrain.

BTW, it still saddens me.

Tell you what, next clean FJ55 I get, I'll keep it stock. :)

This was mine, when I got it:

http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/images/J5/troy_3.jpg

Yeah, I know I know.

Morgan

Morgan,
If you're looking at keeping this inexpensive, the full width (69") axles with Humvee wheels is the way to go, I think. That puts you at the exact same overall width as what you are looking for if you're going to use around 3" backspaced wheels. Those have 7" of backspacing and can usually be found for about $50 each - and are beadlocked.
A negative would be that they are 16.5" wheels and the tires may be a little more expensive, but I doubt it's more than having custom axles made.

Also, I'm not sure you can use your existing wheels if you go with the bigger axles unless they are 2" backspaced.

As for not using the 14-bolt, I think it's usually because of the ground clearance and the limited gearing options. I'd still do it though. Just shave it! And who really needs 7.17's?

Of course I'm talking out of my ass a little here, as I haven't done this. But I've researched it some and may still do it someday. :D

Originally posted by JasonH
Morgan,
If you're looking at keeping this inexpensive, the full width (69") axles with Humvee wheels is the way to go, I think.

if you narrow your front yourself it is pretty cheap and a better option to the hummer rims in my opinion. i narrowed my front 60 to match my c&c 14bolt and all it cost me was just alittle over $100 to have moser cut down and respline two inner shafts shipping and all. the problem with the hummer rims, again in my opinion, is the hubs will stick out a good distance past the rim. this means your track width is narrower but lockout to lockout will be your widest point on your rig. hitting your lockouts on rocks, trees, etc can't be very good on them. just my op. :D

Originally posted by high5


...the problem with the hummer rims, again in my opinion, is the hubs will stick out a good distance past the rim. this means your track width is narrower but lockout to lockout will be your widest point on your rig. hitting your lockouts on rocks, trees, etc can't be very good on them. just my op. :D

That's true. The only rigs I've seen running the Hummer wheels were using drive plates instead of lockouts. But why would you want to unlock your hubs? :D
I didn't realize narrowing an axle was that cheap. If you're willing to go to 8 lug wheels, that would be a good way to go.

Originally posted by high5
i narrowed my front 60 to match my c&c 14bolt and all it cost me was just alittle over $100 to have moser cut down and respline two inner shafts shipping and all.

How much did it cost to cut down the housing? Wo did it?

Morgan

A. 14 bolt rear axles CAN be converted to 6 or even 5lug. It's not that hard.
B. 60 fronts CAN be converted to 6 or 5 lug. SO if you're concerned about your current wheels, you could reuse them.

Like stated before, dutchman charges $80 to shorten a pair of your inner shafts. The housing can be done at home with some important tools. If you convert to 1/2 or 3/4 ton disc brakes you can run *almost* any backspacing you want.

Originally posted by morgan


How much did it cost to cut down the housing? Wo did it?

Morgan

i cut the housing down myself. it isn't a very hard project.

my axles were 65'wms to wms front and rear but it is just fine to run a front axle that is wider than the rear .. morgie you poser you dont need that shit i am running 38.5 on mini truck axles get some longfields and you'll be fine .. or have us build you some brand new tera50 with d60 outers ..strong and reasonably priced
we can put them together for about what you will spend on your 60 by the time they are built plus you will hate dragging that 14 bolt over the rocks , you will lose a ton of clearence ....