Got my waggy rear and chev 44 front.these are going under my 63 80.I want to narrow them down to scout II width cuz I like the way they look under the early bodys.my question is...would it be better to narrow down to something else like a rubicon size or something that it would be easy to get HD shafts for?the waggy rear will just get 1 side shortened.I'm thinking of narrowing the short side for the extra offset clearance.
Yes I'm keeping the 18 so I can run theOD I have socked away.
I'm thinking 513's and Detroit in the rear.lock right in the front. 152pushing 33's probably be ok for the 44's.

Shouldn't you be practicing in RS? Common man!









;)

With the 4340 blank shafts out there now you can have a set of them splined to what ever size you want for about the same $$ as off the shelf sizes ..
If you need the pucks and bar to to cut your axle down look me up in the tool vender area ,, I make all the tooling for D44/ D60 and ford 9"

Duffy

Screw cutting them down.
How much difference does 1-2" make?.
(You can play around with different BS rims).

I'd do Waggy up front as well.
Save the cash, & just find spares (unless your racing).
Weld or spool rear & detroit up front.

"rubicon size" is roughly 1" wider than Wagoneer or Scout II. Just make it use Wagoneer or Scout II shafts, HD shafts are easy to get for either.

For junkyard shafts Wagoneers are easier to find, just remember that '74-'79s are different than 1980 up.

I'd make the front use SII shaft, easy to come by, and gets you the width you want.

W/SII shafts, and GM 1/2T outers you should be 1" wider than typical SII, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 61"

For the rear, Like said above, with the plethora of new aftermarket shafts available, you don't need to limit yourself to "stock" parts... however, the more "stock length" parts you run, the easier it is to track down "emergency spares" rather than ordering new stuff (or having to order (2) set of shaft the first time around (for spares). You also avoid custom stuff for off-the-shelf parts, which can save you a little money… maybe.

I'm assuming your looking to run 6-lug stuff...

Got my waggy rear and chev 44 front.these are going under my 63 80.I want to narrow them down to scout II width cuz I like the way they look under the early bodys.my question is...would it be better to narrow down to something else like a rubicon size or something that it would be easy to get HD shafts for?the waggy rear will just get 1 side shortened.I'm thinking of narrowing the short side for the extra offset clearance.
Yes I'm keeping the 18 so I can run theOD I have socked away.
I'm thinking 513's and Detroit in the rear.lock right in the front. 152pushing 33's probably be ok for the 44's.

The waggy rear should already be SII width. If the rear is instead from a J10 pickup or WIDE TRACK CHEROKEE (NT Cherokees are the same as Waggys) then the rear will be about 63" WMS-WMS. That's about 3" wider than the Waggy/NT Cherokee/SII width of 60ish inches. The Quadratrac D44 rear will have plenty of offset as is for your D18 (remember that the QT TC has the same offset as a D18). :D

Are you planning on going SOA, or staying SUA? If you're staying SUA then I suggest using a Waggy/NT Cherokee front as Mike suggested since the spring perches will be ready to go as is. Scout 80/800s and Waggy/Cherokees/JTrucks are ALL SUA and have the same 32" CTC spring perch width. If you're going SOA (likely on this board of course) then I suggest narrowing the Chevy axle to NT Cherokee/Waggy width.

Keep in mind Ben's warning about the 79-80 change in FSJ shafts. When AMC changed to driver's side pumpkins they also changed the shafts. The axles are still the same overall width, but how they reach that width is different. DS pumpkin FSJ axles (1980-up) have a one inch SHORTER long side shaft and a one inch LONGER short side shaft when compared to the PS pumpkin FSJ axles (1974-1979). This difference applies to both NT and WT FSJ axles. HD shafts are available from Warn and others for the NT axles, both PS and DS pumpkin. I see more DS (1980-up) FSJ fronts in junkyards around here (norcal) so that's which config I'd narrow a Chevy/Dodge D44 front to, but YMMV...

The waggy rear should already be SII width. If the rear is instead from a J10 pickup or WIDE TRACK CHEROKEE (NT Cherokees are the same as Waggys) then the rear will be about 63" WMS-WMS. That's about 3" wider than the Waggy/NT Cherokee/SII width of 60ish inches. The Quadratrac D44 rear will have plenty of offset as is for your D18 (remember that the QT TC has the same offset as a D18). :D

Are you planning on going SOA, or staying SUA? If you're staying SUA then I suggest using a Waggy/NT Cherokee front as Mike suggested since the spring perches will be ready to go as is. Scout 80/800s and Waggy/Cherokees/JTrucks are ALL SUA and have the same 32" CTC spring perch width. If you're going SOA (likely on this board of course) then I suggest narrowing the Chevy axle to NT Cherokee/Waggy width.

Keep in mind Ben's warning about the 79-80 change in FSJ shafts. When AMC changed to driver's side pumpkins they also changed the shafts. The axles are still the same overall width, but how they reach that width is different. DS pumpkin FSJ axles (1980-up) have a one inch SHORTER long side shaft and a one inch LONGER short side shaft when compared to the PS pumpkin FSJ axles (1974-1979). This difference applies to both NT and WT FSJ axles. HD shafts are available from Warn and others for the NT axles, both PS and DS pumpkin. I see more DS (1980-up) FSJ fronts in junkyards around here (norcal) so that's which config I'd narrow a Chevy/Dodge D44 front to, but YMMV...
Guys,thanks for the input.I'm still kicking around the idea of a 35 spline rear.is an ARB my only option or is there something else?I have wheeled with spools before and did not enjoy the quirks.
Both axles were free so I have a little more budget to work with.The rear was from a Cherokee chief,front is an empty housing.That rubicon rear full float kit I read about looks interesting.No excuse not to run 35 spline then.
I guess its scout II size then,since I'm gonna gain some width from the knuckle swap and FF conversion.Any tips or tricks you would like to share befor I embark on this journey?I'm gonna start next weekend.

Guys,thanks for the input.I'm still kicking around the idea of a 35 spline rear.is an ARB my only option or is there something else?I have wheeled with spools before and did not enjoy the quirks.
Both axles were free so I have a little more budget to work with.The rear was from a Cherokee chief,front is an empty housing.That rubicon rear full float kit I read about looks interesting.No excuse not to run 35 spline then.
I guess its scout II size then,since I'm gonna gain some width from the knuckle swap and FF conversion.Any tips or tricks you would like to share befor I embark on this journey?I'm gonna start next weekend.

A Cherokee Chief is wide track, so that means your WMS-WMS measurement will be 63" (3ish inches more than SII width). I have a complete (but disassembled) NT waggy rear (plus another bare housing with caps and a 3.73-down open carier) that I'd trade you for your Chief rear, unfortunately I'm 12+hours away from you! Quadratrac application NT waggy rears are almost as common as small block chevies, so you shouldn't have a problem finding one if you don't want to run the WT. You can also narrow the passenger side of the WT axle 3" and have a shorter shaft made. If you do end up going with another rear, I'd gladly buy the Chief shafts from you for spares (same goes for the passenger side shaft if you shorten your housing)!

I'm not aware of any FF conversion that will work on the Waggy/Cherokee housings as a bolt on. Please tell me if there is one as I'd like to use it myself. They have a different brake mounting plate and bearing configuration than Scout/CJ D44s. You could always cut the ends off and weld on Scout II or Ford 9" ends to allow you to use a bolt on kit.

Just run the ARB. I think a spool is your only other option, and you said you don't want that. I've heard that a Detroit may come available (or already be) in 35 spline for D44s. Not much of a price difference between it and an ARB though. Both are $$$ but worh it.

If you run your WT Cherokee axle as is, then you of course won't want to run your Chevy front at SII/NT Waggy width! You can narrow it to W/T Cherokee/JTruck width (65") and use WT FSJ shafts (or use a WT FSJ housing if you're staying SUA). The 1979/1980 split warning still applies regarding shaft lengths. FYI- a Dodge D44 front has the same LONG SIDE shaft as a WT 74-79 FSJ front. The WT FSJ has a 2" shorter short side shaft though (that's why the Dodge is 67" instead of 65"). Go to the Warn site and check out their shaft charts for junkyard scrounging options. Somewhere I have a link to a thread where a guy narrowed a Chevy axle to 63" using OEM shafts. If I find it I'll post it up...

I know the guy that invented the warn FF kit.He says the original kit used off the shelf chev spindles that they bored out to fit the shaft through.I'm not sure what they on the tube side but I wonder if I took one of my 60 rears and sacraficed it for the spindles.Then I could fit the 35's through better.This could get interesting.

As for the front I still need to do the measurements to see if both sides need narrowing.I'm gonna run wrangler leaves and a shackle reversal for that oh so sweet ride.Gonna have to get my figures in order before I go to much farther.

NT is probably your best bet.

Personally I think converting a Waggy to SOA is much easier/wiser than Chebby...

Waggy's have castor built in (3* or 6* can't remember which), and are at the correct width (to match the rear).
All it takes is an hour or two grinding & welding and you your done.
Perches are at the proper width to boot. (for an 80 anyways)

With Chebbys, you need to narrow 1 or both sides, move the DS perch, cut & turn.

Plus like Creepy said, your at non-custom lengths for spares.

PS-Creepy when you coming to get those spare waggy shafts/brakes?:flipoff2: (I'm not using the 14bolt either, so you can get that as well).

If you have a 60 rear to sacrifice why are you wasting your time with the 44 rear?

If you have a 60 rear to sacrifice why are you wasting your time with the 44 rear?
Couple reasons....I need the offset for my 18 t case.44 parts are cheaper than 60 stuff.Clearance,I'm only gonna run 33 to 35 inch rubber.Weight,I'm keeping the 152 for now so weight is a big concern.The less weight I have to lug around the better.The front axle is a bigger issue for me right now.

44 rear:laughing:
You'll bend it.

44 rear:laughing:
You'll bend it.

Your kidding right?

The axle survived under a 5500lb waggy just fine. My scout already has a 44 in the rear and the whole truck with me in it weighs 3650lbs. The combination of 33's and low hp should be pretty easy on it. If i do bend it i'll send it to you as a trophy.:flipoff2:

Couple reasons....I need the offset for my 18 t case.44 parts are cheaper than 60 stuff.Clearance,I'm only gonna run 33 to 35 inch rubber.Weight,I'm keeping the 152 for now so weight is a big concern.The less weight I have to lug around the better.The front axle is a bigger issue for me right now.


If you're still running your 152 and are going with a FF conversion, then you should be fine with 30 spline shafts! BTW- when you do move to 35+ inch rubber and a bigger motor (IIRC you were thinking 4.3L) then I suggest you narrow a full width D60 on the passenger side to get your desired width and offset.


PS-Creepy when you coming to get those spare waggy shafts/brakes? (I'm not using the 14bolt either, so you can get that as well).

How about next weekend (Saturday 11/5 or Sunday 11/6)? I'll bring my cherry picker so we can lift that heavy fawker into my pickup without rupturing ourselves! What axle are you gonna use since you decided against the 14Bolt? Stayin' with the NT Waggy? If so, then you better keep those shafts for spares (maybe I should bring you that bare NT housing back so that you can keep it as an 'in case of another bent housing' spare)! :flipoff2:

I have a set of WT Cherokee Chief axles (1977 flat tops) that I'm putting in my SII (the body/axle width relationship is about the same as NTs under an 80/800). Therefore, I realy just need the brake goodies (and gears/carrier if they're 3.73s or 4.09s) from the NT rear you parted out (unless you have some W/T shafts laying around). This is the family wheeler and will be running on 33s with a T19W, D18/D20hybrid, and Warn O/D.

I still believe the 30 spliners will be good up to 35's. Especially since the shafts will be custom that should be considerably stronger than stock spicer stuff. My old scout that weighd 5300lbs with a 392 and 35's never broke my 30 spline 60 rear anything. I think i'll take my chances with the 44 stuff for now.

But please believe... if i break anything in there under normal wheeling conditions, I'll come on here and admit my stupidity and will open myself to 40 days and 40 nights of flaming.:nuke: :nuke: :D

Your kidding right?

The axle survived under a 5500lb waggy just fine. My scout already has a 44 in the rear and the whole truck with me in it weighs 3650lbs. The combination of 33's and low hp should be pretty easy on it. If i do bend it i'll send it to you as a trophy.:flipoff2:
Well, if your gonna drive it like a Puss.

I bent 4 of them under my rig, till I upgraded.

Well, if your gonna drive it like a Puss.

I bent 4 of them under my rig, till I upgraded.
Anybody can bend anything when they drive like an ass.

I'm confident,low weight and low HP,I'll be fine.

Anybody can bend anything when they drive like an ass.

I'm confident,low weight and low HP,I'll be fine.
:shaking: Your right, Might as well get a Dana 35 out of a Cherokee so you'll have more clearance.

Bending the rear housing has nothing to do with horse power, I run a 258.
Just trying to save you a headache and having to redo it again.

Couple reasons....I need the offset for my 18 t case.44 parts are cheaper than 60 stuff.Clearance,I'm only gonna run 33 to 35 inch rubber.Weight,I'm keeping the 152 for now so weight is a big concern.The less weight I have to lug around the better.The front axle is a bigger issue for me right now.

You don't need the offset to run a 18 but if you did you could do it with a 60 just as easily as a 44........Your going to dump a bunch of time and money into this 44, what happens when you realize the 4 banger isn't enough power and want a V8?

Or build a 9"

Light weight
Strength
Tons of upgrade potentioal
Cheap to get
More clearance than a D60
Stronger than a D44


Or toy axles... even more clearance, great strength for their size, tons of "factory" low gear ratios, and the right width....


Just food for thought :D


edit, I think TT is selling his 9" soon.... or atleast a rememder him mentioning it once....

:shaking: Your right, Might as well get a Dana 35 out of a Cherokee so you'll have more clearance.

Bending the rear housing has nothing to do with horse power, I run a 258.
Just trying to save you a headache and having to redo it again.

Nah, they need a Commando Dana 30 rear for the clearance! Probably stronger than the POS 35C..

Or build a 9"

Light weight
Strength
Tons of upgrade potentioal
Cheap to get
More clearance than a D60
Stronger than a D44


Or toy axles... even more clearance, great strength for their size, tons of "factory" low gear ratios, and the right width....


Just food for thought :D


edit, I think TT is selling his 9" soon.... or atleast a rememder him mentioning it once....


*cough*Turd polisher!*cough*

Do you guys seriously think he needs a Dana 60 for 33's? That would be like running a Dana 80 with 38's. :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

Or build a 9"

Light weight
Strength
Tons of upgrade potentioal
Cheap to get
More clearance than a D60
Stronger than a D44


Or toy axles... even more clearance, great strength for their size, tons of "factory" low gear ratios, and the right width....


Just food for thought :D


edit, I think TT is selling his 9" soon.... or atleast a rememder him mentioning it once....

Gotta love them nines! With a 31 spline and 152 cid, if I was you, I would take a full size 9", shorten the passenger side to the EB lenght, add an EB Moser 31 spline, move the spring perches, and you'll wind up with a 63" offset rear that you couldn't break. Tons of upgrades, lockers, ARB, disc brakes, PLUS it ain't J**p! More food for thought. :smokin:

Do you guys seriously think he needs a Dana 60 for 33's? That would be like running a Dana 80 with 38's. :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

:laughing: :laughing: Who would do anything that stupid?
No I don't think he needs a 60 for 33's but I don't think 33's will keep him happy for long.

Thanks Ben!

I guess I didn't clarify.This is a 60/40 dirt/DD truck.I want to be able to wheel around most trails but still go to work or wherever.I'm just upgrading what I can and improving what needs it.Yes,if I ever thought this truck would see bigger than 35s,a 60 would be in order.

I have an 89 dodge W350 that will be the big wheeler.But that's next winters project.

Thanks for the input.Guessill look for a NT waggy front and skinny down the rear I have.

Thanks.

I think 44's are :cool2: :flipoff2: