Bumper Pull vs. Gooseneck [Archive] - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

View Full Version : Bumper Pull vs. Gooseneck

ramv

11-01-2005, 01:38 PM

Well, I know I'm going to get nailed for this but there seems like there is always a lot of questions and misinformation.

I tow a two car hauler, 34' long bumper pull. We have used this behind an F-350 dually, a PSD Excursion, and an Avalanche 2500. Also has spent some time behind an F-250.

Pros:
- Any rig can tow it empty. This is handy when moving it around, storing it, working on it etc.
- 3/4 ton SUVs can tow it loaded (Av, Sub, Ex), especially handy if you only are towing one rig and don't want to borrow a trailer
- The F-350 needed 0 additional equipment to tow it completely loaded off the show room floor. It came with a 15k lb rated hitch. A gooseneck would require adding a hitch.
- The 12 000lb/1500lb TW hitch on the Av is also suitable (with the prodigy added)
-- Turns well, doesn't take up extra room when parked
-- Different tow rig hieghts are easily accomadated for
-- A little lighter then a comparable Goose
-- 3/4 ton can tow it with out exceeding GVWR (due to lighter tongue weight)
-- Pickup bed can be utilized fully even with trailer connected

Cons:
-- Need W/D hitch, takes about 8-10 minutes to hook up with EQualizer hitch, which is at least twice as long as a gooseneck.
-- Tongue weight needs to be watched. 12-15% seems to be best, more and the tow rig is being taxed, less and it can get a little squirley
-- 90 degrees is the max turn distance between truck and trailer, gooseneck can go further
-- Weight needs to be farther back on bumper pull
-- no headache rack like a goose

Both work fine (I don't know how many people commented on th bus of nuns a long bumper pull will kill) each has its advantages. Overall, I sure like towing with a dually over 12 000 lb, under its nice to have options.

http://www.trailseeker.com/4x4/mods/ramv/f35001.jpg

Mechanos

11-01-2005, 02:14 PM

The biggest difference I personally noticed between the two:

With my 16' tag trailer, properly loaded, it ALWAYS let me know it was back there. Going over bumps, etc. cause is to "jerk" the vehicle or causes a change in steering (understeer to oversteer or vice versa). Quick steering inputs are followed by a feeling of the tail trying to wag the dog. etc. etc. etc.

With my 22' gooseneck, I can tell there is a load attached to the truck while accelerating, but once I get upto speed, I literally have to look in the mirror (or step on the accelerator) to see if it's still there. No jerking, no change in steering feel, no "wag the dog" syndrome....

I've towed with my tag for 6 to 8 hour trips and it was WAY more exhausting than the 4150 mile, 3 week trip I took in Sept. with my GN. I covered 1800 miles in 2 days and at one time was in the saddle for 17 hours straight. Pulling the GN was simply a joy compared to pulling the tag.

ramv

11-01-2005, 02:20 PM

Have you tried an Equalizer hitch? Makes all the difference in the world. WD/Sway control in one package. (I'm sure others work fine too). Without it, I notice the same as you.

MountaineerMac

11-01-2005, 02:21 PM

The biggest difference I personally noticed between the two:

With my 16' tag trailer, properly loaded, it ALWAYS let me know it was back there. Going over bumps, etc. cause is to "jerk" the vehicle or causes a change in steering (understeer to oversteer or vice versa). Quick steering inputs are followed by a feeling of the tail trying to wag the dog. etc. etc. etc.

With my 22' gooseneck, I can tell there is a load attached to the truck while accelerating, but once I get upto speed, I literally have to look in the mirror (or step on the accelerator) to see if it's still there. No jerking, no change in steering feel, no "wag the dog" syndrome....

I totally agree with you. I pull a 30ft goose, and love it. I'd rather pull 2 on my goose than one rig on a tag along - for ride quality - not acceleration obviously.

Trailer Guy

11-01-2005, 02:47 PM

Owning and working a trailer shop gives me a lot of time behind the wheel towing a multitude of different types and sizes of trailers. Whenever I can tow a gooseneck I will. I would much rather tow a 36ft. gooseneck with one rig than a 16ft. bumper pull. Yeah it looks funny but the ride quality is so much nicer. I've towed with and without weight distributing systems, and either way is a rough ride compared to a gooseneck. The advantage a gooseneck gives you when you need to turn in tight places is amazing. I had a 25ft. gooseneck hooked up with two rigs on it when I went to the Rubicon in Sept. of 04. I was able to turn the whole thing around on the dirt road between Loon Lake Camp ground and the damn. Because the weight of the trailer is distributed in a much better position on the truck is why they tow so smooth. If bumper pulls were the way to go, you'd see more truckers towing that way. You can still stack plenty of gear in the bed of a truck with a gooseneck, the coupler itself only pivots, so there are no real worries. My buddies always thought I was nuts untell they rode with me. Now they're looking at buying goosenecks. Just a much superior design and setup.

Hendo

11-01-2005, 03:19 PM

Trailer Guy

11-01-2005, 03:33 PM

why would it affect your exceleration
I think he just means, with two rigs instead of one rig, I think.

edog1

11-01-2005, 03:49 PM

I think the best reason is .Less people will ask to borrow your trailer if its a gooseneck

DanTheMan

11-01-2005, 06:17 PM

I think the best reason is .Less people will ask to borrow your trailer if its a gooseneck

:laughing: Very True

Good thread, i like the information being given

ramv- What make of trailer is that? How long are those rigs?

I'm looking into buying a trailer to tow 2 rigs, and im actually debating between a bumper and a goose, so this thread is right up my alley.

Jimbo*

11-01-2005, 06:35 PM

I think the best reason is .Less people will ask to borrow your trailer if its a gooseneck

Very true, except for those who expect to borrow your pickup AND trailer:mad3: :mad3:

jstarnes

11-01-2005, 06:44 PM

Mechanos

11-01-2005, 07:12 PM

i have towed with both and feel theres a big adv to goose neck (the obvious ones) as for the exceleration issue i don,t understand ? you are saying carrying the basic same wieght( maybe a little more with goose neck) and why would it affect your exceleration
I mentioned that I couldn't tell the GN trailer was back there unless I looked in the mirror or stepped on the throttle. Obviously, a truck with no trailer will accelerate much faster than a truck with a 10k pound trailer attached to it's ass end.

CSP

11-01-2005, 07:44 PM

I would add that having a shitty goose neck hitch can be a con due to having to get in and out of the bed trying to hook and unhook which is more of a pain with gear,snow,rain

that being said I would rather pull with a Goose Neck for all the same reasons as above! just adding a note to get the same feedback about hitches when the time comes

Waddya mean "shitty goose neck hitch" and what does the quality have to do with climbing in and out of the bed? The trailer connects to the ball and you've got to climb in and out to do that no matter what brand/quality of hitch you buy.

BTW, it's been covered here and generally agreed upon that the BD Turnover ball is the Cadillac of gooseneck hitches.

jstarnes

11-01-2005, 08:01 PM

I guess by hitch i ment coupler

ramv

11-01-2005, 08:16 PM

That trailer is 34' long, rigs have a 119" and 103" WB, and the Dodge has a horrible approach angle. A 30' trailer would work fine, I over ordered.

Its a Target Trailer, but I think they are out of business. Indian Valley Trailers gave me decent prices on goosenecks and bumper pulls as well.

As far as the ride, the tree fiddy rides better with the trailer, so I can't complain, the Av rides better with the long trailer then it does with 20' with the WDH. It rides better empty though.

Oh yeah, not too many people ask to borrow a 30+ bumper pull either. :-)

jstarnes

11-01-2005, 08:18 PM

Waddya mean "shitty goose neck hitch" and what does the quality have to do with climbing in and out of the bed? The trailer connects to the ball and you've got to climb in and out to do that no matter what brand/quality of hitch you buy.

BTW, it's been covered here and generally agreed upon that the BD Turnover ball is the Cadillac of gooseneck hitches.

http://turnoverball.com/turnover/

I have a friend who has one and from seeing him use it I would agree 100%

and BTW its BW Turnover Ball :flipoff2:

http://www.redneck-trailer.com/2004/F/PagesF-6-F-8.pdf

I have used the K1 stile and it was a PITA

but I have see setups where a lever was hooked to an auto lock (TEM autolock) or a Fulton type and the guy didnt have to climb up into the bed and fiddlefart and cuss to get the trailer unhooked

CanuckJeeper

11-01-2005, 08:45 PM

I have used both 16-foot bumper, 32-foot bumper pull, and a 48-foot gooseneck wedge. All towed very well with my F350, when loaded PROPERLY.

I managed to nearly jack-knife my '04 F250 with a 16-foot flatbed and a F250 drivetrain on it, on the snow in PA, because it was loaded ass-end first.

... "The stuff you learn".... :flipoff2:

JP

MountaineerMac

11-01-2005, 08:51 PM

Another vote for the B&W. It's the only way to go as far as hitches are concerned. Simple to install, and very stout. Heck, I put mine in before I even bought my gooseneck...

saprobe

11-02-2005, 06:29 AM

what makes the turnoverball so much better,as far as hooking/unhooking the trailer? i can easily see its value for those that need a flat bed when theyre not towing,but when the ball is up seems to me it would be just as much of a PITA to hook the trailer up as a permantly mounted ball. :confused:

sceep

11-02-2005, 07:44 AM

love the 34' goose. tighter turning, less trailer cheat, more even weight distribution, smoother ride.

our next trailer will be a 16-20' goose.

http://www.dana60.com/sceep/moab/loaded.jpg

4x4extreme

11-02-2005, 09:34 AM

One of the downsides to a gooseneck is the empty weight

Mine is 4500lbs empty

and you loose most of your bed space

4Mogger

11-02-2005, 10:05 AM

love the 34' goose. tighter turning, less trailer cheat, more even weight distribution, smoother ride.

our next trailer will be a 16-20' goose.

http://www.dana60.com/sceep/moab/loaded.jpg
What does that trailer/load combo weigh? guessing 19K or so?

sceep

11-02-2005, 11:01 AM

What does that trailer/load combo weigh? guessing 19K or so?

dunno... alot.19k prolly pretty close

Eskimo

11-02-2005, 11:36 AM

http://www.dana60.com/sceep/moab/loaded.jpg

How many PSI are in the airbags on that Chevy? :p That truck is nice and level for the amount of pin weight that's certainly on it...

Ken Carter / BRUISER

11-02-2005, 11:59 AM

What does that trailer/load combo weigh? guessing 19K or so?

My guess would be a lot more then 19K

I would guess = 22 or 23K

Shit I am at 14,500 with my setup

5200 Truck
2000 Trailer
4500 Jeep
1200 Camper
plus gas, etc...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=209065&stc=1&d=1128606105

and a buddy in my club is 18,500

with a Dodge 3500, Trailer , and K5 Blazer...

Eskimo

11-02-2005, 01:44 PM

He was only referring to the trailer & the load. ;)

sceep

11-02-2005, 02:13 PM

Shit I am at 14,500 with my setup

we go across the scales at 36,500 +- normally. :flipoff2:

rpm4x4

11-02-2005, 04:52 PM

Have you tried an Equalizer hitch? Makes all the difference in the world. WD/Sway control in one package. (I'm sure others work fine too). Without it, I notice the same as you.
Even with an equalizer hitch with a quick manuver you will get the "wag the dog" feel. Also the turning radius isnt there. With a goose I can turn so sharp that the trailer just pivots. Another huge beifit is the weight added to the rear tires on the pull vehicle. This really helps in bad weather. i can drive through a blizzard up a mountain in 2wd like its summertime. (Did it last year on the way to Moab!)

Mike

DavidLH

11-02-2005, 06:39 PM

I pull both and agree with whats been said. But there is one major drawback to a gooseneck. If your tow vehicle breaks down towing a GN you are screwed! You might be 500 miles from home and what you gonna do? With a tag you can probably go to U-Haul or equivalent and rent a truck to get your trailer to its destination (while your towvehicle is in the shop). With the GN, your trailer is at the repair facility while you are sitting in a motel. Now your toys are vulnerable to low life MFers when the sun goes down :-(

Jrod-13

11-02-2005, 10:05 PM

ramv

11-02-2005, 10:47 PM

Even with an equalizer hitch with a quick manuver you will get the "wag the dog" feel. Also the turning radius isnt there. With a goose I can turn so sharp that the trailer just pivots. Another huge beifit is the weight added to the rear tires on the pull vehicle. This really helps in bad weather. i can drive through a blizzard up a mountain in 2wd like its summertime. (Did it last year on the way to Moab!)
Mike

I really have to disagree with all of these points.

I can easily pivot the trailer with the equalizer hitch, it will go to 90 degrees, at which point one tire on each side is sliding.

It doesn't "wag the dog" not behind the dually anyway. Hell even the Av doesn't notice it on quick maneuvers... Its so long, it doesn't do quick maneuevers...

And you last one doesn't make sense. By all rights I have more weight on the rear tires, especially if I drop some preload off the distrubuting hitch since my pivot point is much farther back. I have towed through blizzards to Moab many times, and I want as much weight as possible on the FRONT tires for braking and steering. That actually would be a selling point of the Goose or a well set up WD.

I have towed gooses in the winter and they do well, but its the weight towards the front of the rig that helps, not vice versa.

Seriously, the whole point is here, as much as I have towed, I really don't notice much difference between the gooseneck and the WD bumper pull once on the road. I notice a lot more difference having the proper tow rig for the application.

AirAmigo

11-02-2005, 11:36 PM

Hmmm....good information. I have a bumperpull currently, and am probably going to change to a gooseneck in the near future. The reasons, have already been covered by you guys though.

I'll bow out, and continue reading on the sideline again.

rpm4x4

11-03-2005, 03:21 PM

I really have to disagree with all of these points.

I can easily pivot the trailer with the equalizer hitch, it will go to 90 degrees, at which point one tire on each side is sliding.

It doesn't "wag the dog" not behind the dually anyway. Hell even the Av doesn't notice it on quick maneuvers... Its so long, it doesn't do quick maneuevers...

And you last one doesn't make sense. By all rights I have more weight on the rear tires, especially if I drop some preload off the distrubuting hitch since my pivot point is much farther back. I have towed through blizzards to Moab many times, and I want as much weight as possible on the FRONT tires for braking and steering. That actually would be a selling point of the Goose or a well set up WD.

Most bumper pulls cannot pivot to 90 degrees and even if you had one that could, a goose will turn far past 90 degrees. With a goose you can almost turn untill the drivers door touches the trailer, an obvios benifit in a tight situation.

Your right about the last one not making sense. I did mean that the goose puts pressure on the whole vehicle which helps for handling in bad weather where a bumper pull loads the rear while unloading the front.

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing againt bumper pulls, I use them a lot for local hauls, but you cant deny the advantages of a goose.

Mike