W/ out a bash fest how can we get these events over faster? This was brought up to me by a couple of my sponsors and my WIFE who will not go to anymore events if they last as long as SEMA.


a few of my suggestions

1.Start on time
2.Recovery equipment
3.One day events/ less courses(people won't hang out longer than 4 hours)


I'm sure I'll think of more..... Anyone else have ideas?

W/ out a bash fest how can we get these events over faster? This was brought up to me by a couple of my sponsors and my WIFE who will not go to anymore events if they last as long as SEMA.


a few of my suggestions

1.Start on time
2.Recovery equipment
3.One day events/ less courses(people won't hang out longer than 4 hours)


I'm sure I'll think of more..... Anyone else have ideas?
I think supercrawl could have gone faster if 2 things had happened...

1) the courses were spread out a little bit more so that competitors on course a didn't interfere and cause competitors on course b to be stopped.
2) better recovery equipment/crew. I think that on man made courses cranes or lifts of some sort should almost be a requirement.


as far as general rules for a quick event.

a) no more than 4 courses per day if there are more than 20 competitors in a class
b) quick, skilled, well trained recovery crew
c) few, if any, disputes with judges/marshalls

Fewer, longer courses, with waypoint time limits. For example: you must make it through "X" gate in 5 min, "XX" gate in 10 min ect.

That will keep the action moving. Numerous short courses cause to many needless delays in staging rigs. Dead time is what the spectators (and competetors for that matter) don't want.

Recovery equipment is very important.

Rock Crawl on day one Rock Race on day two using the same area. Good recovery equipment like Big Rich had at The Grand nationals.


Example: If you set up two courses side by side one for rock Crawl and one for a Rock Race most of the spectators would be at the Rock Race course because its fast paced. Your average spectator understands three things, Going fast, carnage, and good driving.

A well trained recovery crew is almost always over looked. Quite often the recovery crew is a bunch of local Jeep guys that want to be part of the action, and if they are willing to show up they are more than welcome. Recoveries can often get pretty complicated, and you see one guy with one idea and someone else with another. A good team of guys that worked well together would solve many of the problems. Unfortunately, this may mean having to pay people to work the events.

friday when there are no fans can be a day for qualifying. you dont make the cut and you load your rig and go. less vehicles on saturday for main event. what about even before the year begins? how about a schedule with dates/times/locations set in stone. it cost alot of teams lots of money for last minute changes. less comp's in same city is another idea. make the fans feel like its christmas when we come around insted of "man another rock crawl":rolleyes: Im not bashing. these are just a few simple ideas.

I would have to say it would be nice to see it go back to the way CalRocs ran in the beginning. Saturday Qualify and Sunday main event. It will be better for all involved....FANS, TV, Flow of Comp, and Sponsors. Just a thought.

Another vote for qualifying the finals. The hard core fans can make a 3 day event out of it and watch the whole show. The new to the sport can catch the main events.

recovery equipment. :shaking:

how can we get these events over faster? This was brought up to me by a couple of my sponsors and my WIFE who will not go to anymore events if they last as long as SEMA.
I've run into the same thing as well.

The one day Jellico pro event in '04 was the way to go IMO.

Start saturday with tech in the morning, courses starting by 10 am, and comp done by 4 or 5 pm. If it's going to be a night event, the competition should last no longer than 6 hours and end before 11 pm.

Do we really need 8 to 10 courses? We should try a 4 or 6 course event. Throw in a 7th course for the main event. Shortening course times will help very little IMO, but what lance said still holds true:
recovery equipment. :shaking:Mobile cranes aren't THAT expensive to rent. Especially for one day, 8 hours tops. ESPECIALLY if it means that wives and sponsors and people that aren't hardcore like us will still want to go or not leave early with hurting feet and tired cranky kids.

Also, with recovery equipment, kids get alot of enjoyment out of that.

shit watching a crane lift a buggy off the course would be half the show!

How bout we qualify on Friday and have a 4 course shootout for the top 6 teams in each class on saturday....... W/ the one course drag race at the end for everyone.

what about doin it the way CORR does it?

two one day events with two winners for the weekend. 3 or 4 main courses per day, with a shoot-out of the top 6-10 drivers at the end.

start each day at around 1pm so that: a) the true hard core fans can get a full day of event in and b) those who can only be around for a couple hours get to see the most exciting parts after they;ve gotten their yard work done ;)

Did somebody mention a drag race :grinpimp:

Whatever they do it should be simple enough for the casual fan to be able to follow and see who's ahead (without breaking out the laptop and xcel program) but not just a freestyle rollover exhibition, either.

You'd be suprised to see how many people think that's what it is.

shit watching a crane lift a buggy off the course would be half the show!

you mean like this? :D

http://www.chinweasle.com/WEROCK/Grand%20Nationals/0003310-R3-043-20.jpg

Not to be negative, but how many teams would stay the course if they were traveling that far for a one day show/chance to play??? It would probably regionalize the sport more. It's all relative, for some, the six hour drive/expense is tough, for others.....

Rich went away from the 1 day events 'cause lots of people complained about just that. A long ways to go for just 1 day of wheeling. And that's when we had 5-7 courses per day.

I don't know that the way we do it now isn't right. Golf is a full day show. The group you follow is on for 4-5 hours but the entire show last all day. Why is this any different? A fan can come all day or show up late and leave early if he doesn't want the full experiance.

The key is keeping the action going during the event. The crane is by far the best way to do that. The other is to design courses that don't cross and to prestage the next team to run. That means entry gates must be accessable when the current team is running.

I mentioned the one day event stuff because a few top sponsors of our sport think it takes too long. Also drag racers drive all over the place to have a one day event.

RJ, Like I said in my earlyer post, Crawl on day one, rockrace on day two.:D

I don't know that the way we do it now isn't right. Golf is a full day show. The group you follow is on for 4-5 hours but the entire show last all day. Why is this any different? A fan can come all day or show up late and leave early if he doesn't want the full experiance.



Golf isnt a FULL Feild on the Weekend. It is only the Top golfers that play on the Weekend. Many Drivers Drive real far and cost ALOT more money to try and qualify for two laps at Nascar....And dont say it doesnt compare because the teams that are trying to qualify dont have Major Sponsors (excpet a few)
During qualifing they are always talking about how it cost them a TON and how it is really tough on the teams that dont have alot of Money. If you arent good enough to make the Finals then you better go practice!
It will make our sport more appealing to Fans and way more appealing to TV
Even the Best drivers can have Bad days and not make the Cut. This will make it Exciting!

Golf isnt a FULL Feild on the Weekend. It is only the Top golfers that play on the Weekend. Many Drivers Drive real far and cost ALOT more money to try and qualify for two laps at Nascar....And dont say it doesnt compare because the teams that are trying to qualify dont have Major Sponsors (excpet a few)
During qualifing they are always talking about how it cost them a TON and how it is really tough on the teams that dont have alot of Money. If you arent good enough to make the Finals then you better go practice!
It will make our sport more appealing to Fans and way more appealing to TV
Even the Best drivers can have Bad days and not make the Cut. This will make it Exciting!

Well put.

Golf isnt a FULL Feild on the Weekend. It is only the Top golfers that play on the Weekend. Many Drivers Drive real far and cost ALOT more money to try and qualify for two laps at Nascar....And dont say it doesnt compare because the teams that are trying to qualify dont have Major Sponsors (excpet a few)
During qualifing they are always talking about how it cost them a TON and how it is really tough on the teams that dont have alot of Money. If you arent good enough to make the Finals then you better go practice!
It will make our sport more appealing to Fans and way more appealing to TV
Even the Best drivers can have Bad days and not make the Cut. This will make it Exciting!

I see all your points. I just don't want to drive away the bottom half of the field from coming. You still need losers to pay the winners. No losers means no winners are gonna show and get paid peanuts.

I don't no what the answer is. I try to look at all sports and see what works close to what we have. I don't remember ever going to a drag race and spending less then a full day. And even golf on Sunday is still most of the day.

My point is simply to keep things rolling at the events to keep fans entertained. Quick recoveries and pre stage. From a filming or TV view, why can't you show highlights of the days action during the slow times of final round coverage?

Maybe we need to advertise qualifing one day and finals the next.

Not to be negative, but how many teams would stay the course if they were traveling that far for a one day show/chance to play??? It would probably regionalize the sport more. It's all relative, for some, the six hour drive/expense is tough, for others.....

Well as a sponsor and a vender I will not drive 5000 miles for a 1 day event.
And I think that some of the bigger name sponsors that provide race support will not be interested in driving long distance for a 1 day event.

I attended every one of W.E. Rock events in 2005 and on the aveage the events lasted under 8 hours. A few was 6 hours or less. I know that W.E.Rock goal is 6 hours or less.

Number one & two complaint I hear from fans and it does not matter if it at a rock crawl, mud bogg or some other event.


Why does it take so long to remove a stuck/broke rig? It is boring!
I paid X$ only to watch 3 minutes of action and 30 minutes of nothing.

Where there is a high lift fork lift or crane I don't hear the complanits.

Mark

What if we repackaged the existing structure.

Day 1 has a and b side heats with clear winners- there could even be a token purse ($300, 200, 100??) for the top 3

Same for day 2.

Over all winners (composite scores of both heats) progress to the feature show at the end of day 2

More winners = more drama for the fans, more conclusions, more (perceived?)second chances.

Recovery equipment and non overlapping courses is one of the best ways to keep things moving. With the new investors and more private tracks, equipment should be more affordable- the quoted fees for SC4 were outrageous- are we sure Capone is dead???

What if we repackaged the existing structure.

Day 1 has a and b side heats with clear winners- there could even be a token purse ($300, 200, 100??) for the top 3

Same for day 2.

Over all winners (composite scores of both heats) progress to the feature show at the end of day 2

More winners = more drama for the fans, more conclusions, more (perceived?)second chances.

Recovery equipment and non overlapping courses is one of the best ways to keep things moving. With the new investors and more private tracks, equipment should be more affordable- the quoted fees for SC4 were outrageous- are we sure Capone is dead???

I forgot about that. Ranch did tell the story about how it had to be a union crew and equipment 'cause the event was held on convention grounds. The fee was higher per hour then I'd expect to pay for the weekend.

What if we repackaged the existing structure.

Day 1 has a and b side heats with clear winners- there could even be a token purse ($300, 200, 100??) for the top 3

Same for day 2.

Over all winners (composite scores of both heats) progress to the feature show at the end of day 2

More winners = more drama for the fans, more conclusions, more (perceived?)second chances.

Recovery equipment and non overlapping courses is one of the best ways to keep things moving. With the new investors and more private tracks, equipment should be more affordable- the quoted fees for SC4 were outrageous- are we sure Capone is dead???The #1 thing that holds up the entire show is recovery and overlapping courses,remove these two problems & ranch and it is solved!!!!!!!!!!

Not to be negative, but how many teams would stay the course if they were traveling that far for a one day show/chance to play??? It would probably regionalize the sport more. It's all relative, for some, the six hour drive/expense is tough, for others.....

Dunno, I would think that reducing the time might would make travel easier. Example: If the average event requires 2 vacation days (plus the weekend) to attend, and you reduced that to 1 vacation day (plus part of the weekend), wouldn't it be easier to hit MORE events? This assuming that most of the guys in the sport still have to hold down a "day" job.


TEX

I guess I meant that for some, it's already tough finding the resources for a 6 hr trip, many of us have more distance than that. The point you make is semi valid, as discussed, many of these suggested ways involve a two day show, if you make the second day. if not, you get a home a day early but still consume v-days. There are a lot of teams on the bubble with next yr, more events offered closer to home, stiffer traveling expense etc.

In my mind, I'd have a hard time driving 40+ hrs for a single day of racing- the fun to work ratio is upside down.

Maybe I should go buy a mud car:)

Maybe I should go buy a mud car:)

One of the tracks in your area is having a zoning issue - they're shut down until further notice :(


Back to the point though, you make a good point about not gaining anything timewise if you have to commit to a whole weekend, whether you actually make the 2nd day show or not. So, that probably wouldn't be as much help. And Difficult Trail makes a good point about the vendors having more sales over 2 days than 1. We have one town we go to for the mud races that gets ticked if the race lasts LESS than 12 hours because they make a mint off beer & food (2,500 redneck spectators, baking in the sun all day, you might imagine what the beer line looks like around 9:00 p.m. :laughing: :laughing: ).


I do think that overall, short days are better than long ones - AND I'd rather do 2 short days than 1 long one even though overall it takes more time. Maybe the answer is to not run every class both days. IIRC, there's normally 3 classes at these events, correct? Run the top class both days, the bottom class Saturday only, the middle class Sunday only. This way, you're guaranteed to see a different "show" both days (encouraging spectators to buy tickets for both days), and folks can decide how much time they want to invest in the sport by picking a 1-day class, or a 2-day class.

Just a thought :emb:


TEX

have gone to almost more events then any one this year and I would like to comment.
I like the night events but a night event needs to be over at a sooner time then a day event. 2 am is too late. I like tech in the morning to shorten the vacation days for competitors.

If tech or Contingency as it is known in most other sports is to be benificial it needs to be well attended by the "show" meeining all sponsors and their displays. Portland #1 was cool because the town came out to see the rigs. afterall the idea of a contingency in town is to attract more spectators.

I like the idea of fewer longer courses to push the speed.

This great sport of ours needs to become a greater show.

friday when there are no fans can be a day for qualifying. you dont make the cut and you load your rig and go. less vehicles on saturday for main event. what about even before the year begins? how about a schedule with dates/times/locations set in stone. it cost alot of teams lots of money for last minute changes. less comp's in same city is another idea. make the fans feel like its christmas when we come around insted of "man another rock crawl":rolleyes: Im not bashing. these are just a few simple ideas.


I disagree on this. There has been times when I was back of the pack and the second day I moved to a 4th and 5th and 6th place finish .Ive also seen teams in 1st place on day one and fall to the back of the pack.

I disagree on this. There has been times when I was back of the pack and the second day I moved to a 4th and 5th and 6th place finish .Ive also seen teams in 1st place on day one and fall to the back of the pack.

A lot of times this happens. You have to also think that sometimes this happens because half the teams are on a easier course than the other half. So the first day scores really mean nothing.

have gone to almost more events then any one this year and I would like to comment.
I like the night events but a night event needs to be over at a sooner time then a day event. 2 am is too late. I like tech in the morning to shorten the vacation days for competitors.

If tech or Contingency as it is known in most other sports is to be benificial it needs to be well attended by the "show" meeining all sponsors and their displays. Portland #1 was cool because the town came out to see the rigs. afterall the idea of a contingency in town is to attract more spectators.

I like the idea of fewer longer courses to push the speed.

This great sport of ours needs to become a greater show.

Hi Creighton.

I have your cell phone number.

You're screwed !!!

Just ask Ranch :)

It should start with the series and work down from there. Have East/ West events with only SC or finals being combined. Less travel will reduce cost to teams and make it easier to make all the events in a series. Man made courses level the field as far as event sites go. Out west there's more natural sites, and the sport grew faster here. Now days the east coast is leading the way with man made parks.I would expect more intrest from new drivers if they don't have to travel out west to compete.
During the events, I agree with everyone... recovery needs to be faster. The West event in AZ went so fast that UROC slowed it down on the first day. The whole reason was very few recoveries.
I like the idea of using a motorcross style of event, use each day as a moto where you earn points and then have over all winners take home the cash. It's an easy way to run the event no major changes needed to scoring, rules ect. Only difference is each class has to run same courses each day. It also would help keep series scores closer, a single bad day would hurt less. Fans can see someone win. There's always a push to reinvent rockcrawling, if it's so broken then why has it grown so fast? Lets try fine tuning, and there's always rock racing for those who want to try something new. I talked with Ranch on Fri at SEMA and it sounds like the new UROC is working on issues already. Lets hope this time some of these good ideas make their way into the show.:grinpimp: