So ive bent two springs, one being a stock YJ and the other a waggy 7 leaf. They bend one im tryin to climb one tire up a rock. ( info: YJ, SOA, 44 locked, 35's...)

The pic is of the first time it happened with stock YJ leafs 33's and the good old D30.

I'm in the same boat. I haven't bent any that bad yet, but I'm afraid to hit anything and it's getting old. Shackle reversal coming soon.

I've bent a few like that too, I got some M.O.R.E. boomerang shackles and so far so good. I still want a shackle reversal, but that will be more money for a new long travel driveshaft & stuff, so for now just the new shackles.

I've done that with the reversal and the spring looked the same , slid back down a climb and caught a rock and flipped the shackle but the BDS springs went to norm after flipping the shackle back , you get what you pay for .

Don't forget to connect that track bar

my track bar has been held on by a zip ti for over 3 mounths and the zip ti hasnt broke so my conclusion track bar does nothing. Ive made a square driveshaft so im not worried about new driveshaft.

This has happened twice though when just climbing a rock with a single tire, so basically my question is will a shackle reversal make climbing rocks easier?

If your tweakin springs that hard then I would make sure you weld that puppy, the shackle rev.

To my knowlege a shak rev doesn't make climbing anything easier, but sure makes the ride a lot nicer.

I am curious about the motor your using though.

4.2 I6 MC2100, my jeep is nothing special, i just dont know why i keep bending springs like this.

Im not trying to make it climb easier with the shackle reversal i just dont wont it to bend springs.

Im about to start carring a spare leaf spring, fuck.

Did you loosen the spring pack clamp in the pick? Could be a part of your problem.

deleted for correctiosn and duplication

yeah I would put a spring clamp on the back of the spring where it will clamp 4 of the sprnigs at once and the pack will be tied together. i bet that will take care of your problem

I have a 90 YJ SUA with 35"s . I have the boomerang shackles and have doen the same thing. that spring will devolp a crack if you continue to drive on it. I'm going to do a shackle reversal myself. But I can see the same thing happening when backing down a hill or something. :shaking:

I have a 90 YJ SUA with 35"s . I have the boomerang shackles and have doen the same thing.You realize Jon, the those boomerangs have nothing whatsoever to do with it...

If you are serious about this as an offroad rig, don't go shackle reversal. It will make climbing obstacles more difficult. Spend some ching and get yourself some military wrap springs. I have totally inverted extended shackles multiple times and my springs are working just like the day i bought them. Shackle reversal was a fad around here a few years ago. I'm not cracking on the newbie forum, but this is usually the only forum you see this topic come up in anymore. Shackle reversal has been found lacking. Thus it is rarely used anymore except by people who want better road driving characteristics and people who are in denial that it will make their rig more capable offroad. Take the money and time you were going to spend on the shackle reversal and spend it on springs. 4wd hardware has military wrap springs, so does JC Whitney. I've seen alot of guys pull a leaf out of the JC whitney springs and they work REALLY well. The 4wd work ok, you just have to beat on them alittle bit to sag them out and get them and flexy.

Track bars do shit for offroad. Take it off.

if someone is interested, I have a MORE shackle reversal I am willing to part with. It was only mounted than it was removed as I linked my rig and no longer need it. my rig never left the driveway so there is no actual drive time in the SR kit. PM if you are interested.

JJ

The pic was from the first time i bent them, i used regular untouched waggy springs the second time with all clamps on. After the input i got here its time for some military wraps or RE SOA springs.

Any input on the RE springs?

If you are serious about this as an offroad rig, don't go shackle reversal. It will make climbing obstacles more difficult. Spend some ching and get yourself some military wrap springs. ... Shackle reversal was a fad around here a few years ago. I'm not cracking on the newbie forum, but this is usually the only forum you see this topic come up in anymore. Shackle reversal has been found lacking. Thus it is rarely used anymore except by people who want better road driving characteristics and people who are in denial that it will make their rig more capable offroad.I'm not seeing anybody tear their shackle reversal off in favor of a shackle forward setup... However, just about every leaf sprung rig I see that I would consider the least bit hardcore is shackle reversed... I think the reason you don't see this stuff in hardcore forums is that leaf springs aren't hardcore.

Why would shackle reversal make an improvement on the road? It promotes brake dive... How can that be good :confused:

Forward, reverse, whatever. They all have their place. The reason a reverse normally rides better on the road is that the spring will grow toward the rear of the vehicle as the tire hits a bump. This causes the tire to also follow slightly rearward and eases the jolt of the bump. This is normally a good thing onroad. In a shackle forward, normally the tire has to travel slightly forward to go up when it encounters a bump. This, on the road, normally makes for a larger jolt from a bump in the road because the tire is not following the natural progression of the movement. This is for most on road circumstances. If you have a flat spring with no arch, the reverse shackle actually travels very similar to a forward shackle in its relation to compression and droop, where a forward shackle on a flat spring actually acts more like the reverse one. On the trail it is a matter of opinion, as much as the antisquat debate. The forward travel of the tire in compression in a shackle forward design can cause increased traction in a climb, but can be detrimental if the tire is undercut on a taller rock. Braking on a forward increases spring rate while the reverse normally dives a bit. Once again it is a matter of opinion. I would also vote to address the spring issues before spending the money on the reversal. Unless you are hitting the shackle on the climb, the rear of the spring is in tension and it is unlikely that you would bend it in this manner. It may have wrap issues, but not that would make it look like the picture. I say do some more research before doing a reversal. For the record, I am one that has removed a reversal to go back forward, but for none of the reasons just mentioned.

im not planning on doing the reversal after what was said here, and what i have been reading elsewhere. It seems that a shackle reversal probably wont help my problem.

When i was climbing the rock the face where my tire was climbing was flat, but ive climbed many verticle obsticles before.

Any input on the RE reverse eye leafs?

I'm not seeing anybody tear their shackle reversal off in favor of a shackle forward setup... However, just about every leaf sprung rig I see that I would consider the least bit hardcore is shackle reversed... I think the reason you don't see this stuff in hardcore forums is that leaf springs aren't hardcore.




:flipoff2: :flipoff2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/beyer05/Jeep%20pics/frontstretch1.jpg

I'm not seeing anybody tear their shackle reversal off in favor of a shackle forward setup... However, just about every leaf sprung rig I see that I would consider the least bit hardcore is shackle reversed... I think the reason you don't see this stuff in hardcore forums is that leaf springs aren't hardcore.


Crusty nobody likes re-doing work they have allready done, like turing the springs back so the shackle is foward. Hence most guys, even though they still wheel with shackle reversal and hate it, tend to just leave it. I'm also jealous of your good fortune that you must have graduated to coils by now. Especially since leaf sprung jeeps are just posers now who haven't caught up with the times :shaking head: Hardcore is more than just Coils=Hardcore, Leafs=Non-Hardcore

1972CJ5+1 nailed it right on the head. The flaws of shackle reversal are especially evident when you are doing climbs that are steep enough that gravity pulling the jeep off of the rock face becomes an issue. The tires don't get enough traction in the front to pull you up. I can think of two climbs in particular in my neck of the woods that SR rigs fail horribly at and any jeep without it can do it quite regularly. You can almost tell who still runs SR and who doesn't just by seeing if they make the climb or not. ::D:

Beyer05- Iv'e seen that thing in another post, always liked that one. :grinpimp:

im not planning on doing the reversal after what was said here, and what i have been reading elsewhere. It seems that a shackle reversal probably wont help my problem.

When i was climbing the rock the face where my tire was climbing was flat, but ive climbed many verticle obsticles before.

Any input on the RE reverse eye leafs?


Never seen anybody run them. Based on the way the eye wrap on the main leaf is going, it appears (although i could be wrong) that just that difference alone should help you. Have you tried searching? I think i remember a pretty good post a few months back on this topic. Again, my next set i think are gonna be the JC Whitney springs. They are made by a spring shop and are sold to many companys that sell springs, not just JC Whitney. I heard the RE springs flex just as well. I say run what you want and decide for yourself, they will both work, enough guys use them both with minimal if any issues. I think the military wrap though is the fix for your original problem. Good Luck

I've been in your shoes; after pulling 20+ junkyard leaf spring packs over a year and a half and trying multiple configurations I went to these guys: http://alcanspring.com/

I have ran the RE 1.5" SOA springs on all the way around for two years now and love them. I also have some other buddys who run them. They fex realy well and I have not bent them. I just took the back ones off only because I put a 4 link in. but now I have two spares for the front. I ran them with 35" claws and a d30/d44. My new setup is fullwith d44/d60 and 37" krawlers and I am still using a the same springs with a shackel reversal.

These pictures are from the rubicon a coupke of months ago.

JDunn

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=213877&stc=1&d=1131472656

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=213878&stc=1&d=1131472656

I'm not seeing anybody tear their shackle reversal off in favor of a shackle forward setup... However, just about every leaf sprung rig I see that I would consider the least bit hardcore is shackle reversed... I think the reason you don't see this stuff in hardcore forums is that leaf springs aren't hardcore.

Why would shackle reversal make an improvement on the road? It promotes brake dive... How can that be good :confused:


I did it. Ran stock shackles up front for a year, bought the MORE kit to srs, then two years later tore that out and went back to shackles out front. One year back in this configuration and happy that I went back.

Problems with SRS -
1) expensive dshaft required for UBER slip because of added droop on driveshaft side of leaf spring $$$
2) Hop was far more evident while climbing with SRS - probably because I could feel the shackle load/unload at my feet
3) pinion would rotate down into the dirt/rocks/mud while flexing the suspension exposing the joints more than in a stock orientation - caused the replacement of the slip on my dshaft from rock damage

I run JC whitney waggy 7 leafs on the front of my jeep through this entire process. Never swapped out, never damaged, always ride even from side to side. Very happy with them.

I'm also jealous of your good fortune that you must have graduated to coils by now. Especially since leaf sprung jeeps are just posers now who haven't caught up with the times :shaking head: Hardcore is more than just Coils=Hardcore, Leafs=Non-HardcoreYou may have taken that wrong.... I'm on leaves SOA, and I'm shackle forward. I have plans to do shackle reverse. I won't be doing coils on this particular rig at all I don't think.

I've been running the RE 1.5's front and rear for a little over a year now, real happy with them. They were a little stiff at first but flex great now and have had no problems.

a few things:
i bent 4 leaf springs in one season. 2 were stock and 2 were aftermarket.
doing a shackle reversal doesnt make a huge diffrence when climbing. i havent noticed any yet.
what does suck is trying to winch the front axle down. it doesnt work shackle reverse. we made it work, but it takes some work.

http://www.4x4spot.com/misc__spring_information.htm

Check out the 80-85 toy pickups if you are looking for a junk yard fix. I belive that is what I am running but I am not 100% shure (somone gave them to me and told me that is what they were off of). I was bending a stock front YJ spring per wheeling trip. Then after several jeeps worth of springs I put the youta springs in. They are front and rear mil wrap and have about the same ride height. They lasted over 20 hard wheeling trips wothout bump stops before I had to have them rearched.

Caution: Pouser Pic coming...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/jeep/19.jpg



Here is the best pic I can find right now of the springs.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/parts/10120514.jpg

I'm running the full traction reverse kit. It has helped the road manners a ton. Wandering, following ruts, and bump steer have almost completely dissapeared. Haven't wheeled it hard do to other limitations, but I'd sacrafice a little offroad capability to make getting to the trail a little less hairy.

Don

I've been in your shoes; after pulling 20+ junkyard leaf spring packs over a year and a half and trying multiple configurations I went to these guys: http://alcanspring.com/

What did they run you. I checked out there website, looks like some quality springs.

If you are serious about this as an offroad rig, don't go shackle reversal. It will make climbing obstacles more difficult. Spend some ching and get yourself some military wrap springs. I have totally inverted extended shackles multiple times and my springs are working just like the day i bought them. Shackle reversal was a fad around here a few years ago. I'm not cracking on the newbie forum, but this is usually the only forum you see this topic come up in anymore. Shackle reversal has been found lacking. Thus it is rarely used anymore except by people who want better road driving characteristics and people who are in denial that it will make their rig more capable offroad. Take the money and time you were going to spend on the shackle reversal and spend it on springs. 4wd hardware has military wrap springs, so does JC Whitney. I've seen alot of guys pull a leaf out of the JC whitney springs and they work REALLY well. The 4wd work ok, you just have to beat on them alittle bit to sag them out and get them and flexy.

Track bars do shit for offroad. Take it off.

:confused: the only thing I agree with you is that track bars need to be taken off, everything else is debatable. Shackle reversal does work, and will improve your climbs, works better for me, than stock mounts, plus you will gain a few inches of wheelbase, which was good in my case.

Instead of dumping coin on military springs, try building your own pack like I did on my YJ. I have 8 leafs up front (yes, 8 leafs), and mixed waggy, YJ, Xj, whatever I had, and works really well. I recomemnd adding a secondary leaf to your pack over the main leaf, to prevent the bedning, and rigging a clamp. It will help protect the pack and main from bending. It is wortha try before dumping $ on military leaves.

Gui

My home brewed bastard springs:

Grand Waggy rear, front, YJ and XJ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/stockleafs.jpg

the final product:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/guicustomleafs.jpg

and

comparison with a YJ stock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/guicustom.jpg


they flex and sit level pretty well (rear are bastard XJ springs as well)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/1guihh.jpg

Ive built my own springs before. The ones i have in the rear are awesome stock YJ's mixed with ProCrap 4", but there bent already in less then 4 mounths. I'd rather just put out some ching for some decent springs that will last a long time (hopefully)

Ive built my own springs before. The ones i have in the rear are awesome stock YJ's mixed with ProCrap 4", but there bent already in less then 4 mounths. I'd rather just put out some ching for some decent springs that will last a long time (hopefully)


the question is, did u build them right? If they are like your fronts, they will bend up. Any pics? For some coin, go RE SOA springs, I think they are the best, or Alcan ($$) Check out with DC 4wheel and PORC, best prices around.

Gui

No pics of the actual springs, but the rears do work. There not really bent just a little tweak from no bump stops i believe.

pics from a place bout 4 blocks away from my house. Not flexed but i just like the pic.

so would waggy rear leafs in a YJ rear be a good combo? ofcourse i would need to do somehting about the shackles, but i think i would get flex from it. :confused:

waggy rear leafs are long as hell. I dont know that you could put them in a YJ. The waggy fronts (7 leafs) are good, they have a 2 inch offset.

Correct, the Waggy rears are way long, see my pic below, the top are waggy rears, then a XJ, then Waggy front, then YJ.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/stockleafs.jpg

I actually cut the long rear Grand Waggy to use as second "main" leafs, over and they worked great.

No better shots of the leafs mounted in the rear, but this pic shows a bit. I left part of the Grand Waggy rear over the XJ, so it gives somewaht of a military wrap on the front, and protects the spring a bit (slider).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/IMGP5352_500.jpg

whats that cable doing there? so a xj Leaf wouldbe the better choice.

cable is for spring wrapor axle wrap, just one of the methods you can use to control it. A lot of people run XJ's but you have to dove tail your rear and relocate your gas tank.

yep, or bumpstops are a easier way out, but my plans are to do more cutting (comp cut, not doivetail, dovetail is different than comp cutting - check out sheeljeep) the tank can be moved up kinda easily...

Gui

If any one is in the area of Santa Ana CA theres a shop called Deaver Spring Mfg. They have great combo's for all types of leaf spring projects, they are involved with alot of the off road community. www.deaverspring.com ask for Jeff or Scott these guys are great! Just my 2 cent.

Ken

Yeas dovetail is where your narrow the rear aswell right. Sorry i was thinkin of one thing and typed another.

No worries. Check out ShellJeep's rig, I think one of the cleanest dovetailing jobs I have seen. getting TJ front flares for the rear soon for my rig... chop chop chop... :)

Gui

No worries. Check out ShellJeep's rig, I think one of the cleanest dovetailing jobs I have seen. getting TJ front flares for the rear soon for my rig... chop chop chop... :)

Gui

i dont think thats exactly dovetailing. that jeep is more of a notch with a narrower rear portion. kind of a modified dovetail

I have ran both reversal and shackle forward for for years. I like the reversal better. But like other have said you need to spend more cash. You NEED a long travel front shaft. Your angles on the front drive shaft to the front ends yoke also needs to be correct. What I hated about my shackle forward set the most was how much the shackles pivoted from side to side. This is very hard on the front of the frame/mounts. Its not to bad with smaller tires but with 38" and up it gets bad. Also if you do and high speed or dune running the shackle forward just jars the crap out of you. With the reversal you can haul balls threw the dunes. I will agree however that for very steep comp type climbs the shackle forward tends to work a bit better. But for an all around set up I will take my shackles in the back.

I have ran both reversal and shackle forward for for years. I like the reversal better. But like other have said you need to spend more cash. You NEED a long travel front shaft.

Definitely agree, I will be putting together a long square tube front shaft to avoid my shaft popping (ok, that sounds naughty :D) out.

G

Yeas the square driveshafts are awseome just made mine cost me 45 bucks in steal and about and hour of welding, that shit is about 4 times the size and wieght as my stock DS.

Nor Cal, Any pics of your setup? What ends\yoke did u use? grinded them to square, or welded in\on the square ends?
Thanks,

Gui

I used just stock yokes. For the smaller one (T-case) it dint need to be grinded, but i did have to fill in all the corners. The lager yoke had to be grinded so i grinded it square untill i could hit it in with a hammer. I also notched the tips of the square tubing with a bench grinder, to get as much penatration as i could.

Welding it, I just welded in sections around it and puddled in the gaps on the corners of each shaft. Then grinded it smoth. Then layed a bead around it making sure i penatrated the yoke, then i layed another next to it tryin to penatrate the notched shaft. Its pretty fuckin strong, it has been tested and passed.

Its not hard at all, the most time and effort that i put into it was trying to get the yokes to fit in the shaft as strait as posible. Today i had it up to about 50 in 4 hi and it just felt like a regular shaft going 50mph.

As for pics ill post some up tommarow when i take off my busted yoke strap.

Just like this...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/parts/10120513.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/parts/1012055.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/parts/1012058.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/parts/1012052.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/trailerrails/parts/1012053.jpg

I got this 6 spline slip yolk stuff from the John Deere store and used an ranger driveline or something and came up with this. It's lighter then a full square shaft but still pleanty burly enough to spin in the rocks. Instead of zirk fitting I just drilled seveal small holes in the out peice and then I grease it with a needles fitting. I think I am about 75.00 into the whole thing.

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/7173/dscn04194xw.jpg

3rd leaf breakage/bendage, second this week. Tommarow im pickin some RE SOA leafs.