Which is the better tow rig..

[bremen242]

I've recently bought a '00 F150 SWB SuperCab that is 4x4 & has a 5.4L & 3.73s.

According to the owners manual, the GCVW is 13500lbs. Sounds a lot for an F150 (it also says the trailer weight max is 8400lbs, according to owner's manual). The GWVR is 6500. I'm not sure what the curb weight is, but I am assuming it is ~ 5500lbs with me & fuel. I'm also licensed for 7000lbs GWVR.

I am looking to pickup a dual axle (with dual axle breaks) 10K GVWR bumper pull car-hauler type trailer. Plan to haul my rig (~4500-6000lbs, cut down F150, not sure on the exact weight). I am planning get a longer one (18-20ft?, saleman said easier to adjust hitch weight by moving vehicle on trailer).

Obviously, I'll need a good class 5 hitch and brake controller. In theory, I should be able to pull that weight without a problem (and still be legal, too).

However, I also have an '85 F250HD LWB (weighted at 8600lbs GVWR). It has a 351W and has 3.54 (Dana 61FF, axle code 33) gears with a C6 auto, tranny cooler, etc. It will also be receiving either 4.11 or 4.30 gears with 265/75R16 tires.

My mind tells me that the older F250 is much better set for towing and handling that kinda weight. dual piston calipers, monster rotors, 12x3" drums, etc.. However, from what I am hearing, the GCVW for that truck is ~ 12000lbs?? Sounds bogus..

Lemme know your opinions...
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[4Mogger]

You will be a little over 13500 if your trail rig weighs that much and you use a long steel bumper pull. The newer rig should do fine with that weight if you use a WDH and have brakes on both trailer axles. The new rig should also get better gas mileage.

[Grim Reaper]

3.73 and 5.4?


Good luck! Get the extended warranty paperwork and read it very carefully and see what exclusion it has on the transmission and rear axle.

I think your quoted 13k is with a bigger engine and 4.10 gear. My guess is your combo of 5.4 and 3.73 is around 10k combined.

You are going to be miserable. I'm on a Travel trailer forum and people are dumping that truck with that motor and rear end combo left and right on trailer weight over 4k.

If you look around on TT forums you will find most seasoned drivers that tow a lot feel that you should NEVER exceed 80% of the advertised tow rating.

I have towed that weight, with a similar trailer description (Stock 79K5 on a 10k trailer) with my 454 burb with 3.73. I can guarantee it has more tow capacity then the truck you are looking at. It was as much weight as I felt comfortable with and that was with the TV empty. I actually sold a FAT K5 trail vehicle in favor of a 4Runner so I could go to a 7K trailer and shed about 2-2.5k of total weight.

F250. with the 4.10 and C6 will be 65mph tops but it will handle the load you are talking about a lot better then the 150. Get a big tranny cooler.

[bremen242]

Nope, 13.5K is quoted in the F150's owner's manual with a 5.4L and 3.73s.. in '00.

I was thinking that I really don't want 8000lbs resting on a semi-float axle..

I have a big cooler on the F250, the biggest one I could find at the time....
I am thinking to go with the F250, put on sway bars, a 10K hitch, 4.11s and run it.. The C6 with rebuilt with a towing shift kit and shifts real firm..

I'm looking at a 10K trailer, with two 6000 pound axles and the trailer weighs 2000lbs for $2399. the 7k trailer is lighter, (1600lbs?), but a lot of people tell me a 10k trailer with handle better with braking and what not..

I think the C6 will hold up a _lot_ better than that O/D electronic wonder..

Aside from going with a new powerstroke dually, I think that is probably my best bet...

I'm also planning a rear disc swap and probably will go with a 514 if the 351W is too week..

thanks, this is the real life applications and info I am looking for. still looking for everyone's opinion.. Pirate's full of good stuff.

[pmurf1]

The 3.73's are gonna kill you in the F150. I towed 5000#+ to moab from AZ a couple times with a 7700 equipped F150 which has the 5.4 and 4:10's with rear discs. It towed it fine, not a diesel, but never felt unsafe. And that is pulling steep AZ grades through the mountians. I'd swap rear gears in the F150 before I did anything with the older truck.

[NapaBavarian]

Does the new truck have rear discs? That would seem to be the biggest difference if it does. I tow with a 1992 F250 460 5 speed. I believe you have a carbureated truck, so engine power is probably down. I also tow for work every day with several 460s, carbureated, and the fuel injected truck is way above

Installed a set of these and it really helps stabilize the entire truck when it is loaded.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=air+ride&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp

As far as power, if you are willing to spend the money go for a set of headders, prefrably doug thorley, it will wake that truck right up, then a cat back exhaust system.

The buggest difference between the trucks is that the older one is on an HD chassis that shares a lot of components with the F350 right up to the duallies, it is more of a light duty 1 ton than an HD 3/4 ton, while the 1/2 ton is on a light duty chassis that has gotten fairly beefy over the years, but is still a light duty chassis.

As far as GCWRs go the only explination I have ever heard is that they arn't based on brakes or suspension, but pulling power, the ability to maintain a certian speed up a certian grade, thus the fact that they change with engine/traney/final drive combinations.

The newer truck will be comfier and probably more fuel wise, but the old one should do better as far as stability and controll, either should get the job done, but I'd take the older one with a few modifications any day of the week, so why not try towing some with each truck and see what you like.

[bremen242]

Does the new truck have rear discs? That would seem to be the biggest difference if it does. I tow with a 1992 F250 460 5 speed. I believe you have a carbureated truck, so engine power is probably down. I also tow for work every day with several 460s, carbureated, and the fuel injected truck is way above

Installed a set of these and it really helps stabilize the entire truck when it is loaded.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=air+ride&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp

As far as power, if you are willing to spend the money go for a set of headders, prefrably doug thorley, it will wake that truck right up, then a cat back exhaust system.

The buggest difference between the trucks is that the older one is on an HD chassis that shares a lot of components with the F350 right up to the duallies, it is more of a light duty 1 ton than an HD 3/4 ton, while the 1/2 ton is on a light duty chassis that has gotten fairly beefy over the years, but is still a light duty chassis.

As far as GCWRs go the only explination I have ever heard is that they arn't based on brakes or suspension, but pulling power, the ability to maintain a certian speed up a certian grade, thus the fact that they change with engine/traney/final drive combinations.

The newer truck will be comfier and probably more fuel wise, but the old one should do better as far as stability and controll, either should get the job done, but I'd take the older one with a few modifications any day of the week, so why not try towing some with each truck and see what you like.

Yes, my truck is carb'd. I really appreciate your advice.. My truck is 210HP 310TQ. Probably a little better since I am running EFI manifolds (2-1/4" output compared to 2"), dual 2-1/4" pipes, and an Edelbrock performer intake...

About the GCVW, I believe you are 100% correct. My truck has the exact same rotors, calipers and rear drums as a F350 dually. The only difference is it has a Dana 61 (same heavy tubes and center, just has 3.54s). It just could use another 150HP. I also sandblasted the frame, and the brackets have F350 stamped on them..

I also was planning on the air bags- they seem awesome for hauling / towing..

the new truck has rear discs.. that is why I've also been researching the F250... seems pretty easy.

[Jrod-13]

well, I think I have some expirance with exactly what your asking.

My ol' man had 00' just like you described, and now has a 03' in almost he same configuration. ex cab, short box, 5.4L 4x4, but with 3.54 gears. We have both pulled more than what your asking, without any issues.

Last summer I put 600 miles(round trip) on it pulling my Wheeling rig.
Trailer was a 22+2, 10.2K unit, weights about 2500lbs empty. My truck weighs in at 5700, so figure about 8200lbs, plus two bed loads of junk.
http://www.tech.mtu.edu/~jawagone/random/P10102291.jpg

The truck handled it EXCELLENT. no sway, no trouble stopping, etc. you really couldn't tell it was back there, until you stepped on the gas.
On the highway, it pulled just fine 65mph down the freeway, and did OK on hills. Only one long, 3 mile, 7% grade gave me trouble, I was down to 35mph at the top of it. the only gripe I had with it was power taking off, with 3.54 gears, and the stock 32" rubber, it kinda was slow 0-10 mph.
gas mileage was around 10.5, with the AC on.

As for comparing to your 85' F-250, the brakes on the F-150 are way better. dual piston brakes up front(like the F-250) and big discs out back.
The rearend is a sterling 9.75" rear. The ring gear is the same size as your dana 61, and the pinion is larger. the axle shafts are also larger 34 spline units. but yeah, it is still a semi-floater.

For comparision, when my dad got his first F-150 (in 2000) he kept his old truck for hauling the big loads(lumber, case 420 backhoe, bricks, etc)
the old rig is a 89' F-250HD, with a 7.3 and 5 speed.
That truck hasn't moved since around 2001.. The F-150 seems to haul every bit as well as the old truck in most cases. Obviously the springs/tires aren't as good, but the power/handling/stopping seems to be about on par

[demonranger]

It will do it ensuring functioning trailer brakes & a good WD hitch will help plus you'll need the WD hitch to stay within the OE hitches specs since it's either a 5k or 6k weight carrying hitch but will hit prob 10k w/ weight distribution.

My old man has a '01 Supercrew w/ the 5.4 & 3.73's you will get 8-10 mpg towing, but prior to purchasing my C350 I borrowed his several times and it towed rather well but it does like the high RPMs to make the power that you'll need especially if you have some hills.

[oldjeep]

I've got an 02 F150 with 5.4 and 3.73's and towing package. Never pulled more that 6000lbs with it, but I would take it over a mid 80's F250 any day of the week. Rear end on mine is a Sterling 10.25

[bremen242]

hmm. still up in the air.. I just might go for the F150, and put on a bigger hitch and get a prodigy brake controller... I'd rather just buy a new hitch since I live in the rust belt, and OEM hitches only seem to last about 7-8 years before they are rust.. plus, the old hitch is only rated 5000lbs...

The 5.4L also makes about 265HP and 300+ TQ, so it does make more power than the 351w.

I'll probably want to get a nice stacked plate B&M cooler for the tranny, as I don't think it came with one from the factory.. unless you guys have a big suggestion?

[Grim Reaper]

hmm. still up in the air.. I just might go for the F150, and put on a bigger hitch and get a prodigy brake controller... I'd rather just buy a new hitch since I live in the rust belt, and OEM hitches only seem to last about 7-8 years before they are rust.. plus, the old hitch is only rated 5000lbs...

The 5.4L also makes about 265HP and 300+ TQ, so it does make more power than the 351w.

I'll probably want to get a nice stacked plate B&M cooler for the tranny, as I don't think it came with one from the factory.. unless you guys have a big suggestion?

Where does it make that power? I don't drive at redline and most small motors that make big HP claims its all at RPMs you are not likely to turn towing.

My 454 R20 Sub is only rated 230 HP. Its the 385 lbft of Torque at 1600 RPM that stay pretty flat up to 2500 RPM before it take a significant drop. Thats what moves the big weight and gets it up the on ramps.

It will happily cruise all day at 65mph turning 2700 RPM and not loose 1 mph on most grades in my area.

Hayden makes a simular cooler for half the price. They also have a tranny temp gage kit. Got mine at Pep boys.

[bremen242]

Where does it make that power? I don't drive at redline and most small motors that make big HP claims its all at RPMs you are not likely to turn towing.

My 454 R20 Sub is only rated 230 HP. Its the 385 lbft of Torque at 1600 RPM that stay pretty flat up to 2500 RPM before it take a significant drop. Thats what moves the big weight and gets it up the on ramps.

It will happily cruise all day at 65mph turning 2700 RPM and not loose 1 mph on most grades in my area.

Hayden makes a simular cooler for half the price. They also have a tranny temp gage kit. Got mine at Pep boys.

according to what I just looked up, 260HP @ 4500RPM and 350ft/lbs @ 2500RPMs.

whereas the '85 351W makes 210HP @ 4000RPM and 305ft/lbs @ 2800RPMs.

I just checked out hayden's lines of coolers.. not too shabby for the price..

[rockstar]

i tow with a 01 Ford Expedition with the 5.4l, it has the 9.75 rear axle, gears i'm running 4.56 gears but i also have 37's on my tow rig. it tows my TJ on my 18ft full steel floor car trailer just fine. yes i wish i had the excursion with the power stoke but i don't so i use what i got. i'm very happy with how well it does work even with the 37's.

[gilraine]

I've got an 02 F150 with 5.4 and 3.73's and towing package. Never pulled more that 6000lbs with it, but I would take it over a mid 80's F250 any day of the week. Rear end on mine is a Sterling 10.25
my 87 f-250 (carb 460, t-19, 3.55's) would outpull my dads old 02 supercrew 5.4,3.73s, auto..the brakes felt stronger on mine with identical loads.. anyway, are you sure its a 10.25??? should be a 9.75... my 2 cents is the older truck will probably work better...i would trust the C-6 with a load more than the 4r70w....

[Jrod-13]

Where does it make that power? I don't drive at redline and most small motors that make big HP claims its all at RPMs you are not likely to turn towing.


actualy, the torque curve on the 5.4 is pretty flat from 1500-4000 or so,
It's such an undersquare motor, the stroke is larger than that any other gas motor put in a pickup, at 4.36" or so.