OK I HAVE NOTICED WITH THE PICS IVE SEEN OF 1/4 ELIP RIGS THEY SEEM TO HAVE A TON OF REAR FLEX.....TOO MUCH....

1ST OFF I THINK THOSE RIGS ARE THE SHIT.....

THE FULL PAGE PIC OF LANCES RIG IN A MAG LAST MONTH....THE ONE WHERE THE REAR INS ON THE GROUND AND THE FRONT IS ALL CROSSED UP......AND A SERIES OF PICS ON THE BOARD THE OTHER DAY.....OF A RIG TURTLED AND ROLLED DOWN HILL.....

THE REAR CONTROLE ARMS HOLDS THE REAR END IN PLACE......

LETS IT DROOP COMPRESS AND MOVE FREELY...AND PUSH THE RIG IN A FORWARD MOTION WHEN THE TIRES ARE TURNING.......

THE SPRING ARE JUST SPRINGS....

THE FABBERS OF THE SUSPENSIONS ARE FAWKIN ARTISTS....I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND AGREE OR TELL ME HOW IM WRONG....PLEASE DONT GET BUTTHURT

WITH THE REAR DROPPED LIKE THOSE PICS SHOW THE ARMS ARE AT AN EXTREME ANGLE COMMING OFF THE FRAME....THE OTHER SIDE COMPRESSSED TRYING TO PUSH THE VEHICLE FORWARD......THE ANGLED SIDE IS NOT GOING TO PUSH THE VEHICLE FORWARD WHEN THE REAR END MOVES.......ITS GONNA BE A LEVER AND CRAWL UNDER THE RIG PUSHING IT TO ROLL........

FLEX........ENOUGH IS ENOUGH,........

:D :D :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

dude, turn caps off and speak in sentences. what the hell are you trying to say?

:rolleyes:

He fawking confused me to.

I'm gonna go home ant try to make a rear linkage system that will allow me to have both rear tires on the ground while my heep is on it's lid.

Slinky can lay on it's side with all 4 tires on the ground.
Why can't I be upside down and have my two rear tires on the ground :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

okay, here is my suspension design theory:

have as much travel as physically possible, but it must be BALANCED flex. for instance if my rear flexes twice as much as my front, and i have already done all i can with the front, then i will limit the rear to match the front.

identical front and rear suspension link systems. this is only TRULY possible with full hydro steering because the drag link in a normal steering setup still acts like a suspension link to some degree. my personal favorite link design is the slinky's SA-Link.

run as stiff of a spring rate as possible before it starts to seriously hamper flex. this is because the vehicle with a more solid suspension is the more stable vehicle and the more stable vehicle is the king in the rocks.

what you said about the slinky being able to be on its side with all four wheels on the ground is cool, but i think that it is somewhat ridiculous because the suspension is so soft that it allows it to do that far too often. ideally, my suspension will be able to do that, but only because of the lack of binding in the links, not because my spring rate is that soft.

i think that the ideal spring rate for a four wheel drive vehicle in the 3000 to 3500 pound range is 180-230lb/in progressive. it is soft enough to allow good downward movement, but firm enough to prohibit undue body roll in the rocks.

U R :rainbow:

Did that make sense to anyone?:rolleyes:

Dallas

Originally posted by offroadr35
.....what the hell are you trying to say?

Idon't think he knows him self..............:D just wants someone to talk to......or hes mad cause he dosn't have good flex:D :D

Dude!, I have driven the cruiser in 2 competitions. I didn't even have a limiting strap in the first comp, although I did roll on the first day but it had nothing to do with the flex it was the angle of the side hilling. On the second comp "CalRocs" I didn't roll, break or time out in any single obsticle.

As far as what you say it is and is not going to do or how it is and is not going to work, you might want to do a little more homework.

It works for some and not for others. I personally think getting a coil over in the front with a 1/4 eliptic in rear would be and awesome combination with a limiting strap of course.

BTW...The Carnage on the Con pics of Lance's cruiser may not have made you aware that was BEFORE he put limiting straps on.

Oh and please don't get your BUTTHURT by what I said. I was just trying to give you insight.:D

But But ,
I know old drunken country meth cookers that swear that they have taken their 2 wheel drive with wooden lift blocks out back to fit bigger tires every where a 4 wheel drive can go. They didn't need all that flex :D:flipoff2:

Hey Kelly Youll agree with this....
It may seem like alot of flex until you adjust your driving style to work with the + and - of it all

True Very True Monkeyboy. :D

But I have to say it is one of the most awesome feelings of having flex like that. Getting the feeling like you might just be going to roll and you pull right out of it.

Ohhh Poop, I wanna go do some serious wheeling now. And it is too long till my next Comp. It is like a drug that is REALLY good for you....once you are hooked you can never get enough of it.:D

Originally posted by 9-Volt
possible, but it must be BALANCED flex. for instance if my rear flexes twice as much as my front, and i have

Just a thought here, but...

How would you "balance" the flex?

Would you do it while sitting on flat level ground with a full tank of gas and a driver?

It'll only be balanced until you get it nose up, or nose down on an incline..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Just a thought here, but...

How would you "balance" the flex?

Would you do it while sitting on flat level ground with a full tank of gas and a driver?

It'll only be balanced until you get it nose up, or nose down on an incline..

yes, balanced with a driver and half tank of gas. i know it will only be PERFECTLY balanced until an incline, but it will be a lot closer to balanced than if i hadnt balanced it at all. see what im getting at?

Originally posted by 9-Volt


yes, balanced with a driver and half tank of gas. i know it will only be PERFECTLY balanced until an incline, but it will be a lot closer to balanced than if i hadnt balanced it at all. see what im getting at?

Yeah, but what's the point?

A "perfectly" balanced rig will just suck equally climbing, descending, or side-hilling.

An unbalanced rig might climb better than it descends, or side hill better when going uphill, vs side-hilling downhill..

Another consideration - you generally WANT the front to be stiffer than the rear - it makes it a little easier (safer) to turn a corner at any kind of speed..

Then again, what do I know? My trail rig runs a really stiff front, and really soft rear..

My race rig is closer to a balanced front/rear "flex".. but it doesn't see trail duty. :)

Out of all that nonsense there is a valid point that extreme angled links WILL apply an upward force on the frame when the axle drives forward. Kinda like the "TJ Wheel Pick" thing most people have seen. i think the problem is link angles not extreme flex, but it is a side effect of the flex.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy
Out of all that nonsense there is a valid point that extreme angled links WILL apply an upward force on the frame when the axle drives forward. Kinda like the "TJ Wheel Pick" thing most people have seen. i think the problem is link angles not extreme flex, but it is a side effect of the flex.

THANK YOU FOR GETTING MY POINT.


I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT FLEX SUCKS OR ABOUT BALANCED SUSPENSIONS. .IT JUST NEEDS TO BE CONTROLED A LITTLE.
I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT LANCES RIG IN THE PIC I WAS JUST REFURING S? TO THE ANGLES.
I GUESS I SHOULD OF PUT IT IN QUESTION FORM.

SO ........

DOES THE ANGLE OF THE ARMS AT EXTREME FLEX...BEFORE LIMITING STRAPS ......ACT LIKE A LEVER PUSHING THE RIG OVER??

I THINK YES ........IF NOT EXPLAIN......

:rolleyes:

71fj40,7"LIFT,99"WHLBSE,38.5 SX,ROCKRAM,SOA,350,465, INDEXED205,D60,D44,DAILYDRIVER,I LIKE CAPS LOCK!

Nice sig asshole. Caps lock should get you banned :flipoff2:

Good grief my American friends....

do you folks actually HAVE an education system?

Methinks it could use a little attention, no?

71whatevertheheck...

You will likely have a more satisfying "virtual" conversation experience if you attempt to use some socially acceptable conversational conventions, such as:

1) not yelling (all caps is seen as the virtual equivalent of shouting, and if you want to say "I like shouting" and then do it all the time, you will likely get the kind of reception one likely would if one was to continually shout at people in person)
2) Try to use some sort of conversational English, or any other language for that matter. Some semblance of sentence structure would be a good start.
3) Punctuation helps too.


Always trying to help, that's me :flipoff2:

1) if you want to say "I like shouting" and then do it all the time, you will likely get the kind of reception one likely would if one was to continually shout at people in person anybody else thinking of Monty Python? :D

KEEP THE CAPS LOCK ON... I LIKE THEM!!

:D

Originally posted by BillaVista
Good grief my American friends....

do you folks actually HAVE an education system?

Methinks it could use a little attention, no?



Strangely enough California has the 2nd worst schools in the country. :rolleyes: or is it that obvious? :D

Originally posted by mike


Strangely enough California has the 2nd worst schools in the country. :rolleyes: or is it that obvious? :D

:D :D :D

Moronic sentence structure aside-
do your homework. Read the "God of Suspension" thread, just don't bring it back up! You're alluding to anti-squat and rear steer (or flex steer if you like).
But, in a nutshell a suspension wizard could most likely build something that would lift the rear a tad for traction on steep stuff, then reverse itself and apply a lowering force to the frame when way flexed out.
Rear steer combined with lots of anti-squat will cause rolls and flops, bottom line.

DAMN .................YOU GUYS ARE SENSITIVE.....:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

INN STED UV CUMPLAINING UBOUT SPELING.....CAN U ANSER THE ?????????????????????

IM STIL NOT YELING MY BUTON IZ BROKE

I DID. NOW GO BUY YOURSELF A KEYBOARD FOR 10 BUCKS. ISN'T THIS ANNOYING?

Originally posted by Slagburn
Moronic sentence structure aside-
do your homework. Read the "God of Suspension" thread, just don't bring it back up! You're alluding to anti-squat and rear steer (or flex steer if you like).
But, in a nutshell a suspension wizard could most likely build something that would lift the rear a tad for traction on steep stuff, then reverse itself and apply a lowering force to the frame when way flexed out.
Rear steer combined with lots of anti-squat will cause rolls and flops, bottom line.

Duh, Ya think? :flipoff2:

If it was only as easy as a web wheeler makes it sound!!
Thanks for putting it into words Slagburn.... :beer: :smokin:

I vote we put a breathalyzer on his computer, or maybe this is a drug induced rant? Either way you need help.

It's been discussed over and over again.

Just come over to the dark side and quit your bitching!

your almost 2 months too late:flipoff2:

71 RCKCRZR,
You seem to irritate people with the way you write, but all that asside. YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!

If you have a standard 4 link (upper arms triangulated and lower arms straight) and you have ALOT of droop in your suspension, the side that is drooping will tend to walk under the vehicle when the outside (lower) link arm gets too much of an angle on it. To make things worse, because the link goes from the rear housing to the OUTSIDE of the frame, it will tend to push the vehicle over or lift the front tire on that same side when the rear end starts to walk under. A couple of limiting straps will pretty much fix this problem by not letting the link arms get to such a severe angle and at the same time, pulling down on the rear of the vehicle where the strap is connected when tight.
If you triangulate the upper and lower links, they will not try to push the vehicle over because they are pushing on the center of the vehicle when at full droop.
Just remember, Everything is a compromise, nothing is perfect.

Desertoy, I'd like to know what compromises there are with a double triangulated setup like you have? I have pretty much the same thing and other than a lot of fabrication I'm not sure I see any. I'm going to wheel it for the first time on Memorial day weekend and I'm interested in any funky quirks I can expect.Later:skull:

Oh ya, my setup came out with about 1/4" of rear steer at full flex!I like:D

I can't think of any either:D I was just trying to make the standard 4 link guys feel better:flipoff2:

One kinda strange thing though. With regular leafs in the rear, if I went around a rock with the front tire and the rear kinda cheated a little and hit the rock, it would slide around the rock without climbing it.
Now, it seems like if I touch a rock with the rear tire, it climbs it. No matter how big or verticle the rock is, it climbs it.
I hit 2 flags a CalRocs this way:eek:

After doing it this way I can't see why anyone would want to do it "the old fashion" way;) Thanks for the pointers, sounds like it wouldn't really be a problem outside of competition. I can't wait to get this thing in some rocks.

For all you clowns that have no technical advice to offer, LEAVE!!! Go to the chit chat forum and be lame over there. He may have his caps on, but for the most part he speaks facts. So shut your pie holes! If you are lame, then you know who you are, and you will most likely be the ones that are offended by this.... Get over it, and head to chit chat.

Jeff

Originally posted by The Sherminator
I vote we put a breathalyzer on his computer, or maybe this is a drug induced rant? Either way you need help.

It's been discussed over and over again.

Just come over to the dark side and quit your bitching!


A LITTLE LATE BUNGHOLE!!!:flipoff2: :D

desertoy or desertCJ,
How does that rear setup work on the street? I've been seriously considering copying that design, and adding a sway bar (with disconnects, of course) on my DD.

Well since I"m pretty sure Desertoy doesn't drive his on the street:D I guess I"ll chime in. So far I have had my jeep up to about 45 or 50 mph and it tracks straight and doesnt' feel squirly at all. It does corner kinda funny, since the rear is way flexier than my spring over front. I don't feel much body roll in the front, but the rear does lean a little. I have RS 9000s and I"m using the stiffest setting on all of them. I think that with a sway bar you won't notice it at all. I"m not too worried about it though, it's a Jeep not a hot rod and you have to drive it that way;)

DesertCJ.....How long did your links end up being and where do they converge? Did you end up with some anti-squat? How much? Can you post some close up flex shots?

--Eric

71RCKCRZR.......YES!!!!!......& Butt hurt is such a great combo of words....good man.

Deserttoy......your old rig was cool!

Dog walker.....NO SHIT!!!!!!!

4x4grrl...who cares!!

Rokheep....Takes one to know one....

The Shermanator.....Go back to shit-chat and stay there

SyinkBug.........(#*$$@#) off, it did

Lance....... why even waste your time with the rolleye thing, read it and move on.

ericfilar@fatcity



just venting, if you took affence, screw-off!......no replys to this reply...thank you, and good night

Eric, all four of my links are 34.5". I didn't come up with that number...I just went with what was gonna work with what I had. I had some serious space constraints from keeping my gas tank in the stock position.

Where do they converge? Hell I don't know:flipoff2: I can tell you that on the axle the upper and lower links are 7" apart and at the frame they are 5" apart. I pretty much had to work around my frame and tub and thats what I ended up with. I was planning on having them parallel...like 5" at the axle as well, but I didn't think that was gonna control axle wrap very well.

About the anti-squat....on paper and in theory yes I have some anti-squat. And other than seat of the pants testing I don't have anything to compare it to. I did take it out and drop the clutch at about 4grand;) I didn't notice the rear end jacking up at all. I don't think I'll be able to tell untill I can climb a steep hill with it. Hope this helps a little. I"ll post some flex pics as soon as I get off my ass and take some...oh yeah maybe I"ll bleed the brakes agian too.:skull: