Buying a Hobart 140 vs Lincoln & Miller 135's...

[WTF?]

I'm looking at picking up a hobart 140, for a hair over $400.

Can anyone give me any reasons why I should pony up the extra $$'s for a lincoln 135 or the big bucks for the Miller 135 based on experience.

I won't have steady access to a 220 source in the near future, so bigger machines are not an option.

[Camanaka]

All three are pretty good... With some practice, clean metal and the right setup, all three machines should be able to do whatever you want. I'd say purchase the nicest you can afford (say, among the prices at like Cyberweld.com).

I have a Lincoln 135t w/ cart if you live in NorCal

[truc666]

This class of machine is a ''sheet metal'' welder. ESAB, Lincoln, Hobart, and Miller all have a good product in this range. The problem with 120 volt welders, even when they are rated at 135 or 140 amps is that they don't[I] really put out that much current. More likely you can expect a 15 percent reduction from advertised capacity. Add to that a low duty cycle and you have a toy that is good enough for building light bumpers etc., but nothing structural that you would bet your life on. Yea, a pro can prolly make a relatively safe structure out of light tube with one of these, but if he's a pro, then why doesn't he have a better welder.

So, I guess the answer is -- what are you gonna build and how much do you want to spend. If you want to weld serious stuff, then you gotta step up and spend a few bucks for a machine that is capable of what you are asking it to do. that means a 220 volt, 60 percent, or higher, duty cycle machine running gas and the proper solid wire.

FWIW, I have seen bomber class stock cars with cages welded with these 120 volt, low amp machines come apart with a good shot from a sledge hammer. I have seen bombers built with Lincoln buzz boxes hit the pit entrance wall at my home track head on and do thier job. the only difference was the mig welds were prettier -- right...

[willymutt]

I think this argument above is crap. Yes, there is something to be said about deep penetration, but proper setup can make the difference. I for one don't have 220V power and have used a 110 welder for 5 years now. I started using a weldpak 110, and have recently been using a Miller 135. They all do a very good job of joining metal. If there is something that I really need more penetration for, I just use someone elses. For most general welding and fab work, the 120V units work just fine. I have found that with the flux core wire you can get better penetration on thicker metal. It sucks for sheet metal at that point though. If you can get one for $400, go for it. Sounds like it will be your first welder, so might as well learn on what you can afford now.

[Travis Waldher]

besides, if you really have to weld deeper on occasion, you can do the proper prep work and make multiple passes.

[JamisonWorkshop]

This class of machine is a ''sheet metal'' welder. ESAB, Lincoln, Hobart, and Miller all have a good product in this range. The problem with 120 volt welders, even when they are rated at 135 or 140 amps is that they don't[I] really put out that much current. More likely you can expect a 15 percent reduction from advertised capacity. Add to that a low duty cycle and you have a toy that is good enough for building light bumpers etc., but nothing structural that you would bet your life on. Yea, a pro can prolly make a relatively safe structure out of light tube with one of these, but if he's a pro, then why doesn't he have a better welder.

So, I guess the answer is -- what are you gonna build and how much do you want to spend. If you want to weld serious stuff, then you gotta step up and spend a few bucks for a machine that is capable of what you are asking it to do. that means a 220 volt, 60 percent, or higher, duty cycle machine running gas and the proper solid wire.

FWIW, I have seen bomber class stock cars with cages welded with these 120 volt, low amp machines come apart with a good shot from a sledge hammer. I have seen bombers built with Lincoln buzz boxes hit the pit entrance wall at my home track head on and do thier job. the only difference was the mig welds were prettier -- right...


Spewwing Garbage.

[beartj]

...blah blah blah blah blah...

My roommate just bought a hobart handler 140 a couple weeks ago and loves it. He's been using for restoring his camaro frame and it's been fine. The president of our club has a mm135 which we have all used way more than we probably should have. They are most definately NOT "just for sheetmetal" machines. We are currently building a CJ w/ a 502 and are going through repairing, stretching, and plating the entire frame w/ .25" plate w/ the mm135. It is doing just fine. I'm not claiming to be an expert welder but I did spend the better part of the summer working for one using a very nice 250 amp machine and I know enough to tell that the welds from the 135 were fine visually and structurally w/ good penetration.

The owner of the mm135 modified the frame and built a cage for his CJ using the mm135. It has been rolled many times w/ no signs of tweakage and zero noticeably cracked welds. Assuming you can weld properly, I wouldn't hesitate to build a frame/cage w/ either of those machines if that was my only option.

On a side note, another club member just bought a 220v lincoln sp175 that i used last week for awhile. Very nice. Maybe it was just me but the arc seemed "smoother" somehow. The added power is nice and makes it easier to get a good looking, solid weld.

This topic is nothign new and has been covered over and over here, search for mm135 or hobart handler 140. You will find that both machines are basically the same except for a few parts. HTH

[CrustyJeep]

I think this argument above is crap. ... If there is something that I really need more penetration for, I just use someone elses.So which is it :flipoff2: You just proved the guy's point. Sure, there is lots of work you can do just fine with a 110 welder, but your average 4x4 has *lots* of 1/4" material, and you absolutely cannot get good penetration on 1/4" with a 110 welder without doing all sorts of lame stuff, like flux core and multi-pass.

A 135/140 may not be a "sheet metal welder", but it's not a whole lot more than that. This has been said here about a zillion times (search would have worked BTW), but a 220 welder is minimum for 4x4 fab work, unless you want to borrow your buddy's welder for have the shit you do. In which case, why buy a welder at all :confused: IMHO a 175 class machine is minimum for this type of work. I have one and there are still times I need more power. I wish I would have held out for a MM210.

[willymutt]

I was talking on things like welding my d-ring mounts on. I did bevel them, but they are 1" thick. The average 4x4 doesn't have a lot that is 1/4". My cage is .120 wall. That is a ways off 1/4". This can be argued all day long if you want. It is just like the guys who say you have to use DOM for your cage. There are different types of vehicles and different opinions. I know some chassis builders who started with 110V welders and upgraded as funds allowed. They were fine as long as you know what you are doing. Tell me where I can find a 220V welder for $400 that is in decent shape and I don't have to replace the liner or other internal parts.

That is my opinion and we all know we each have a different one.

[knaffie]

I've used all 3 of those little welders. They all run fine. Just get the Hobart and you'll be as happy with it as with any of the others.

[Mutt]

blahdybladyblah

Tell that to my buddies lincon 110 120v welder that put my AP ubolt eliminator perches on over 4 years ago with heavy wheeling and towing.

It's called prep work :flipoff2:

[katarn444]

Check out toolking.com
I just got a refurb hh135 for $330, I almost got the hh175 for $400 but wanted a 110v. I got the wire from cyberweld hobart hb-28.

Take a look at http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/index.php? for more info.

Katarn

[rusted]

I have seen a little bit of all three kinds of welders in person. I have heard a lot about them here and in real life.

If I was buying a brand new welder, I would definitely buy a Lincoln right now.

Reason being, in my area I can go to Lowes or Home Depot and get consumables for them at 7pm on a Saturday night. I can't do that with my Miller.

I LOVE my Miller welder. But all three welders are really good. I'd go for convenience.

Availability of local service would be secondary. With the use most home guys put on a small welder, I don't hear enough about problems with them to justify the need for convenient service. They all seem to be fantastically reliable machines.

It's like 6 or 10 .030 tips at Home Depot for $7.99 or something? Can't beat that with a stick IMO.

[MochaMike]

Check Ebay.... (be weary/careful though).

Last month I got a killer deal on a Lincoln 175 Pro....

I won it for $380 +$40 shipping for a grad total of $420 to my door.

It was brand new, un-opened with everything inside.

Works like a dream...:D



PS-Key is to be patient & set a limit. When I bid on mine, there were 3-4 auctions for the same model ending that day.... All the others were $50-$100 more.... (just got lucky I guess).

[WTF?]

I ended up with a lincoln 135, it was local, used once then hit the shelf for~6 months. It was really a question of price; which one can i get for the biggest discount off of the selling price.

The real question was Hobart vs lincoln vs miller. Miller may be regarded as the best out there, but you will pay for it too. So then its really down to hobart v lincoln as far as being in the same price range. Any comments?

As i said for now 220 will not be readily available to me.
On paper, the differece between the 135 and 175 class machines is relatively small. If i buy a 220 welder it'll be a 210. Until then, I've got a relatively capable machine that is usable anywhere you can dig up a 15 amp 110 plug.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[CRYPTIC CRAWLER]

if you need some more nuts for 110v for thick pieces such as d-ring mounts, grind edges tack on preheat w/flame wrench adjust wire spd for added heat and burn it in.

[Haggar]

I have been using my Lincoln Weld Pack 120v welder for 6 years now. I really like it, although I will be switching up to something bigger in a year or so.

I do everything with flux-core, which is generally the preferred method for heavier metal, or rusty/dirty metal, as the flux has better cleaning and longer shielding power than the shield gas will, especially when working outside.

Plus, the nice thing is with a 10 lb roll of flux core, I Can transport this thing and use it anywhere very easy. We bring it to campgrounds when the club goes somewhere, can be plugged in, and no gas bottles needed. Easy.


I've built 3 vehicles with it (1975 CJ5, 1972 VW sandrail, 1985 Toyota), getting ready to build my 4th (1953 CJ3a), plus have used it on 4 or 5 friends rigs. I've never had a weld fail, and I've use it for tow points, spring/shackle mounts, and crossmembers.

As mentioned, proper welding and preparation is vital to getting a good weld, no matter what you do. On certain critical parts, I try to be creative to get an overkill-strong weld.

For example, my rear tow point/tab is made from 4" wide, 1/2" thick bar stock. Instead of making a normal 'tab', mine is about 8" long. My rear crossmember is 2"x3.5"x0.25" rect tube. I cut a 1/2" x 4" slot in the front and back, and slid the d-ring tab all the way through the crossmember. That way, its welded from both the front and back, its not going anywhere..


Go for it, In a few years, you'll still be able to sell it for 50-75% of the original cost if you feel the need to go bigger.

[tennessee rockhumper]

a friend of mine worked at northern tools for 2 years and the miller/hobart guys come by and inservice them on the welders. if you take them apart, they both say miller inside. hell, my hobart 135 has miller wrote right on the side of the gun. the guy at the local welding supply laughed about it when i brought it up and said some people just are hardcore brandname guys, but he agreed alot of the parts are the same.

as far as welding penetration, i use thin wire and turn up the wire speed. if you have a certain amount of power heading though a wire, and you change the wire out to something thinner, your welder's power output doesn't change but your current density does. (a thinner wire will burn hotter because there is less surface area). if that's not enough, as said above, prep your work right, i.e notch, valley, ect, ect.

i weld 120 dom for cages all the time with a 135 and have rolled at tellico at least 5 times over the course of the last year, nothing budges. if you can knock off your welds with a good shot from a sledge, either your welder sucks or you do.

[Hans]

I've got the Hobart 140, been happy with it so far. I originally wanted to go bigger, but only have 110 available where I am living and was limited by that and finances. I haven't done any real structural work with it, but that's mostly because I'm a rookie welder and know I'm not good enough yet to do that sort of work safely.

The only criticism I have of it so far is that the power output is a 5 different settings on a dial switch. It's not a fully adjustable knob, and you can't go between the settings. A bit annoying when you need just a touch more or less juice that is between the available notches and you have to make due with what you've got. The feed rate though is fully variable.

-Hans

[Krylon..]

I have the Lincoln Pro Mig 135.. It's the retail version of the 135plus. Bought mine at Lowes. I have had it for about 3-4 years now and am very happy with it!!!