Question is for the same money am I better off with a diesel with 170K on it or the same truck with a gas motor w. 100K on it?

Never owned a diesel before so I'm not sure how to compare them vs a gas when the mileage is that much different.

How much would you expect to pay for a PSD or CTD with 150-170Km 4x4, manual tranny - nothing fancy. People seem to be pretty proud of them around here.
Looking to spend somewhere around $10K
adam

170K is nothing on a CTD, Powerstrokes it's a little more. Do not buy a 6.5 GM diesel with any amount of miles. Both Ford and Dodge have crappy auto transmissions, but the manuals are more or less fine in both which looks like is what you want.

The Powerstrokes have injector issues, wiring issues, and glow plug issues, but the engines themselves seem to be OK. Injectors are very expensive to replace, usually $300 or so a piece to replace.

The mid 90s CTDs are bulletproof and will far outlast the life of the pickup itself. Stock I think they are the least powerful truck, but by throwing a $100 set of springs and grinding a piece in the injection pump you can be putting down over 600 ft lbs to the wheels, and the stock clutch will handle that. At that time you will be able to outpull a brand new Dodge CTD.

I'd buy a CTD over the Stroker any day of the week, but they are both ok.

Thanks for the info - yeah, I'm thinking manual tranny due to the fact that they will be cheaper to deal with when they go out - and on a truck this old I'm sure I'll have to fix the tranny every once in a while.

Still wondering about price though, and how I should compare gas vs diesel when the mileage is so different? 90K on Gas vs 160K on diesel?

you should probably be looking to spend around the 10-15K mark depending on year, miles, options. if i had to drive a ford i think i would rather walk, since that will be what your doin most of the time anyways if you buy a PS. get a CTD and you'll be glad you did. we work on all these trucks everyday and i would rather work on a cummins anyday. plust we dont hardly have the problems out of a cummins that you do a powerstroke.

What is with the bandwagon that everyone think Cummins are the best thing since the wheel was discovered? Many of these people do not even have direct experience with them. They just spat out shit they read on the internet. I do think they are nice engines but you forget about the 99-02 lift pump problems. Yes the 12v ones are very durable but the trucks around them suck, I owned one. Currently I have 140K on my 99 Powerstroke and I have replaced one sensor, and the alternator and the truck around it is built much better. I would buy a gas engine personally with a 10K limit unless you will be towing more than once a month. Find one with proper maintence and it should last 150K fairly easily.
-Billy

What is with the bandwagon that everyone think Cummins are the best thing since the wheel was discovered? Many of these people do not even have direct experience with them. They just spat out shit they read on the internet. I do think they are nice engines but you forget about the 99-02 lift pump problems. Yes the 12v ones are very durable but the trucks around them suck, I owned one. Currently I have 140K on my 99 Powerstroke and I have replaced one sensor, and the alternator and the truck around it is built much better. I would buy a gas engine personally with a 10K limit unless you will be towing more than once a month. Find one with proper maintence and it should last 150K fairly easily.
-Billy

X2

personally i am stickin with the "bandwagon" i have worked on both and by far prefer the cummins, as far as reliability and maintnance. but if you take care of eather of them then they will take care of you. the "injector problem" that the powerstrokes have is that an o-ring goes bad on the injector and oil goes in the engine. my 2 cents

With your price range, you will be looking at mid-90s and older diesels. There are nice trucks out there for that price, but you must be johnny-on-the-spot to get them. You can get alot newer gasser for the money. Either way, get a truck that was taken care of and you won't go wrong. With the diesels the 7.3 stroke and the 98.5 and older Cummins are both really good. Just make sure whatever you buy was taken care of. Did I mention to make sure it was taken care of?
Travis..

What is with the bandwagon that everyone think Cummins are the best thing since the wheel was discovered? Many of these people do not even have direct experience with them. They just spat out shit they read on the internet. I do think they are nice engines but you forget about the 99-02 lift pump problems. Yes the 12v ones are very durable but the trucks around them suck, I owned one. Currently I have 140K on my 99 Powerstroke and I have replaced one sensor, and the alternator and the truck around it is built much better. I would buy a gas engine personally with a 10K limit unless you will be towing more than once a month. Find one with proper maintence and it should last 150K fairly easily.
-Billy
Thanks Billy, I'm a much bigger Ford fan than Dodge any way but I know the CTD's are nice so that's why I'm considering them, My preference would be the PSD though. Any specific reason you recommend the gas over the diesel - I probably would be only towing about once a month and just using it a little on the weekends for work.

With your price range, you will be looking at mid-90s and older diesels. There are nice trucks out there for that price, but you must be johnny-on-the-spot to get them. You can get alot newer gasser for the money. Either way, get a truck that was taken care of and you won't go wrong. With the diesels the 7.3 stroke and the 98.5 and older Cummins are both really good. Just make sure whatever you buy was taken care of. Did I mention to make sure it was taken care of?
Travis..

I know a lot about what to look for on a gas motor as far as if it's been taken care of or not - not so much on the diesels except for what I'm reading in this forum and the other two diesel forums everyone talks about(dieselstop and oilburners). Gotta have those maintenance records.

Thanks fellas

i searched around a lot before pruchasing my 98 24 valve CTD. my only requirements were that my new truck needed to be diesel, 4x4 and standad shift. i looked at everything in my area within the 14-19k price range. the 24 valve CTD is nice, because if you start adding boxes, injectors, etc (which you might, i know i had no plans on it, but did add some things) ....you can turn stuff down in the cab with certain fueling and timing boxes, rather that have to run everything in full tilt boogie mode like on a 12 valve and make adjustments under the hood. i stayed away from automatics and got one with the NV4500. I hate the front axle configuration on the dodges, CAD unit, unit bearings, ball joint problems and the damn VP44 problems on the 24 valves. but you have to take thebad with the good i guess.

i bought my 98 dually 4x4 with 85k on the clock for $15k. not a bad deal, but could have found somethign a little cheaper with higher miles.

Thanks Billy, I'm a much bigger Ford fan than Dodge any way but I know the CTD's are nice so that's why I'm considering them, My preference would be the PSD though. Any specific reason you recommend the gas over the diesel - I probably would be only towing about once a month and just using it a little on the weekends for work.
With 10K to spend that puts you at an older diesel with quite a few miles. People like to charge a lot for a diesel because they say the engine will last forever. Well they may last a while but not forever and the parts are a lot more expensive. I just figure for your price range you can find an F-250 with the 5.8l or the 460ci, or a Chevy with the 5.7, 6.0 or even the 7.4 if you want more power. Gas engines do not have the power of diesels but they do just fine on flat land and mild hills. I have towed 7K at 70mph with a 1500 Dodge with the 5.9l quite a few times. I use to have an 89 F-250 with the 5.8l and it would scoot around got around 12-13mpg empty but she could move a trailer more than acceptable. Around Atlanta the terrain should be ok for a gas eninge to me. If you had the money for a diesel I would say go for it, but to me you can get a better truck all around with a gas enine in it. If you find a diesel in your range that has been treated well go for it but I don't think you will. Many people on here will tell you go for a Diesel, but this is my opinion.
-Billy

Exactly the kind of info I'm looking for - thanks man.

I paid under 10k for my '95 PSD a 1.5 yrs ago w/ 140k on the clock.

For the diesel vs. Gas it's a matter of how fast to you want to run up the hills going to tellico. If you want to run 70-75 then hunt for a diesel. If you're comfortable slowing down to 45-55 up some of the longer steeper sections then you'll be fine w/ a gas motor.

I've towed w/ a 5.4 F150, '95 7.3 PSD, '02 7.3PSD from atl to tellico and around the mountians of North GA. The 5.4 didn't have the grunt of the diesel but w/ it spinning where it likes it you could climb hills @ 55. W/ the 5.4 I had a 5-6k trailer headed in to dahlonega and I had power in reserve to run up the hill @ 55 after pulling out from behind a car running about 40 @ the bottom of the hill once the passing lane was added. If you are familiar w/ the road I'm talking about you know that is a long hill of moderate steepness.

The f150 is a stock '02 supercrew w/ 3.73 gears Gets 5-8 towing
my '95 was stock @ the time running auto w/ 4.10 gears gets aprox 12-13 towing
the '02 is stock 3.73 w/ a 6 speed. roughly 12-13 towing

If you don't have to buy one now you can search and find what you're looking for in a diesel in the price range that you want to pay. And yes around here everyone thinks diesel is roughly equivalent to gold.

The OBS (94.5-97) powerstrokes have a couple problem spots & worst case $ figure to fix them for parts only.
*Valve cover wiring fries frequently due to bad glowplugs (about 500 for 2 reuseable vc gaskets & the 4 uvc harnesses)
*Waterpump is needed around 150k ($130)
*vacuum pump between 150 & 200 ($100)
*Injector o-rings ($80 & 6-8hrs time)
*Dual mass flywheel w/ stick shift (1k for solid flywheel & clutch)
*Auto trans torque converter (700-1k on converter, 100 on shift kit)
*CPS ($100 5min sensor swap)

if you're not gonna drive it very often, get the 460 ford. it should keep up with any stock diesel. it will get worse gas mileage but you'll get a nicer truck for 10k

Although I've never considered a half-ton being fully capable of pulling more than a fishing boat or cement mixer, there's good info in post #14.

My previous 2500HDs with 5.7s and 6.0s were strong towrigs for up to 9K trailers and got 10-12 mpg hauling. The 95 F-250HD with 5.8, E4OD and 3.55 rear went right by Dahlonega at 70 mph on cruise control on a recent trip from Miami to Central IN pulling my 7K loaded car hauler....it slowed to 45 mph going up Monteagle and averaged 8 mpg. Hell, I pulled a 12K 5er RV trailer with it on cruise at highway speeds on the flat....4.3 mpg. I'm getting rid of it because I like going everywhere with anything at 70 mph.

On the other hand, my 2000 3500HD crewcab dually w/7.4 Vortec and 4.10s would pull anything anywhere at 70 mph and got 12 mpg....loaded or empty as it didn't know the difference.

My present 02 F-350 CC dually 4x4 with PSD, handshaker, and 3.73s just got back from MD with a 7.5K loaded car hauler behind it. I've got a heavy foot and it's getting 14-15 mpg loaded or empty at 70 mph.

Here's the real deal: The two one-ton duallies with big power are the only "light duty" trucks I've ever owned that made me grin big and my ass feel loose after loading them up and climbing in. I don't have to thrash them to get the job done. My trucks work or they normally otherwise sit in the driveway, although I can't seem to stray too far from the Super Duty lately....today, it's playing grocery getter. And, that's why my 95 F-250 is sitting on the consignment lot waiting on a new owner.

Good luck and Happy Holidays.

I've been towing w/ a 4.7 dodge 1/2 ton for the last two years and I thought it did pretty well for just the 200 or so HP it had. Usually got around 10mpg towing my 7K lb trailer / bronco combo. At most I'll be towing my bronco to Monteagle, Tellico, Grayrock once a month and it will be used for running around very little other than that. From the info I've seen here - it may not really be worth the extra money for the diesel except that it might help me sell it when I want to upgrade in a few years. I could probably do most any work myself to the gas motor but I hear the diesels parts are more expensive and I'd have to take it to a shop or , gulp, the dealer.:eek:

Good info guys - I'm still looking. I'll let you know what I find.

Found an '00, 4x4 F250, XLT - auto tranny replaced 30K ago and 110K on the motor for $14,500 - leather, power everything - going to look at it tomorrow.
Best thing I've found so far that was still available.......we'll see.

Found an '00, 4x4 F250, XLT - auto tranny replaced 30K ago and 110K on the motor for $14,500 - leather, power everything - going to look at it tomorrow.
Best thing I've found so far that was still available.......we'll see.

If it's a gasser, that's an average price off the dealer lot in my area. If it's a PSD, it's a pretty good price and with 110K whatever problems it may have had should have been resolved. I based part of my decision on a 2002 PSD being the most reliable year for the 7.3 and haven't been disappointed. For a price comparison, I paid $22,998.72 out the door for my '02 F-350 XLT Crew Cab 4x4 with 7.3, ZF-6, manual T-case, manual hubs, and 3.73s....78K miles.

I've put over 3K miles on it in the month I've had it, more than half pulling 7.5K, and I'm averaging 14-16 mpg on cruise control at the posted speed limit. My '95 F-250 gasser got 15 empty and 4-8 mpg loaded. As for maintenance cost differential, you have to wait until truck replacement time comes to determine it. I use up a gasser in two years and lose $5K on the trades above an average of $3.5K spent on maintenance/repairs. My first diesel and I'm hoping it will average out to be no worse than that considering the diesel should last me twice as long before replacement time.

I'm happy and good luck.

Still looking - last one didn't work out so I'm back considering the ole 460 again as well since I saw keiths post - maybe even a V10?

Didn't think it would be this hard to find a truck that was half way taken care of without spending a boat load of $$$.......

Got any deals let me know

I searched just about every available minute for nearly three months; must have test-driven 60 trucks, and was pretty damned discouraged and sour on the dealio. One night while driving by my local Ford dealership, I stopped on a whim and there it was....my dream towrig.

They'd just taken it in on trade, it hadn't been detailed or anything. From all my searching I was familiar with the NADA values and threw them a lowball offer with a check in my hand....they took it and you could've knocked me over with a feather.

You can plan all you want, do a systematic search, etc. but if you're patient, sometimes something good will come your way by chance.

Good luck.

That's what I've been hoping for - might have found it on another board..
94 350 CC DRW TDI, 5spd, hope it looks and drives as good as the pictures.

loked for months for a 24 valve qc 4x4 dodge. Everything I found in the 01 range without 150K+ was running in the low to mid 20's. That seems like a whole lot ofmoney for a truck with 100k+ on the odo. Yes, "he motors last forever" but do i really want to have 20K+ into a truck with 100k+ on it when the truck falls aparet around the motor? HELL NO

After driving 40 or so trucks I stumbled onto a neighbor selling his truck. A truck that had nevertowed anything, was perfect! and pretty much my dream truck. So I ended up with an 04.5 QC,auto, LB,slt all dealer maint,
100k chrysler warranty and under 30k on the odo for 27.5 out the door. Couldn't be more happy.
I also looked at buying a BB gasser as they are cheap right now, and spending the money left over on a nice DD. But its nice to have a NICE, Reliable truck with 70 k left on the warranty. HTH dave

Still looking............
4x4, with manual tranny gas or diesel - probably gas for the money I want to spend - $7-8K....

Thanks for any leads.

Do not buy a 6.5 GM diesel with any amount of miles.

just out of curiousity why? i know they aren't as powerful as the other diesels out there but are they very unreliable? a friend seemed to have good luck with hers but i didn't really talk to her that much either. just asking because i'm in the market and i've seen some pretty good deals on those chevys.

just out of curiousity why? i know they aren't as powerful as the other diesels out there but are they very unreliable? a friend seemed to have good luck with hers but i didn't really talk to her that much either. just asking because i'm in the market and i've seen some pretty good deals on those chevys.

Not sure myself but I've heard that a lot - supposedly numerous problems, more so than the one or two that CTS and the PSD's are known for, but no personal experience..

On the other hand - I have two more prospects:
94 F250 Ext Cab 4x4 with 5 spd with new motor(32K on motor) private party asking $8300
96 F250 Ext cab 4x4 w/ 5spd 155K at a dealer asking $7995.

The new motor sounds appealing but I haven't heard of too many people with rebuilt diesels(Ford Pre PSD) in their trucks - could I be asking for trouble there?

the '94 you need to find out which motor is in the truck it could be a normally aspirated 7.3 IDI or a turbo 7.3 IDI or possibly a 7.3L PSD

The IDI motors are very cavitaton prone if you don't maintain the coolant additive which is why most get replaced with relatively low miles.

the '96 try to figure out if waterpump has been replaced. They tend to fail between 100-150k mine went out @ 155k

The early PSD's got dual mass flywheels which do wear out aftermarket single mass units are available to solve that weakness of the trans.

The linkage bushings are notorious to go bad w/ a stick in that body style ford regardless of engine but more pronounced on the diesels due to a stiffer clutch.

PSD bible (http://pages.prodigy.net/stevebaz/_import/pages.prodigy.net/stevebaz/index3.html)

On the 94 with the "new" engine, how many miles on the truck. Most likely I would pass, because the previous owner did not maintain it well thus the new engine. On the 96 155k is fine mileage wise, it averages to 15k per year so no big deal there. Don't worry about doing your own maintenance on a diesel, there are a lot of sources for info and you will learn all of the little quirks and gems of them. I will never buy another gasser after buying my first diesel in 90. Save that link demonrager posted above. Steve Baz is a great guy and that website is a real asset. As far as Cummins or PSD or Duramax, well I've been a heavy diesel mech. for way too long to get into a dumb pissing game over that. I've had all three and I have been happy with all of them. My personal every day commuter vehicle is a diesel 1 ton 4x4 and I am getting 17mpg in the city, 20-21 highway.

What is with the bandwagon that everyone think Cummins are the best thing since the wheel was discovered? Many of these people do not even have direct experience with them. They just spat out shit they read on the internet. I do think they are nice engines but you forget about the 99-02 lift pump problems. Yes the 12v ones are very durable but the trucks around them suck, I owned one. Currently I have 140K on my 99 Powerstroke and I have replaced one sensor, and the alternator and the truck around it is built much better. I would buy a gas engine personally with a 10K limit unless you will be towing more than once a month. Find one with proper maintence and it should last 150K fairly easily.
-Billy

I own one and have not had many issues with it. Lost 2 lift pumps, then added a pusher pump and have not had any issues. Lift pump is minor compared to problems on PSD motors.

Checked out the 94 - total miles on truck was 324K - 34K on "New" Motor - I asked him about the additive for the coolant and he looked at me funny and I knew right there I didn't want it.

Second PSD I've driven lately where the front end had a ton of play up through the steering wheel - surely that's just a couple of TRE's that need replacing right?

What about buying a truck like this without driving it - like on ebay or from a different state. The 96 with 155K is a long way away so I can't just check it out after work. You guys that buy over the phone and through ebay - are there any way's to cover yourself if you make a deal and send money then your not happy when you arrive to get the truck?

Good info guys - thanks a lot for all the assistance.

Second PSD I've driven lately where the front end had a ton of play up through the steering wheel - surely that's just a couple of TRE's that need replacing right?

More or less. Those trucks have y-link TTB steering linkages. The tie rods might need replaced, the steering box might need adjusted, rag joint might need replaced, TTB bushings might need replaced, etc. At a certain point, it's not getting any better. They'll all have some slop in them. They were that way brand new. It's just a question of how much is acceptable.

More or less. Those trucks have y-link TTB steering linkages. The tie rods might need replaced, the steering box might need adjusted, rag joint might need replaced, TTB bushings might need replaced, etc. At a certain point, it's not getting any better. They'll all have some slop in them. They were that way brand new. It's just a question of how much is acceptable.

Thanks - I just didin't expect them to be that bad since the trucks were still in pretty good shape.

the steering play is most likely a result of the steering joints or possibly baljoints.

Unfortunatley ford in one of their less intelligent designs made it so that 2 of the ends are short TRE's while the other 2 incorperate the actual tierod & draglink which makes those 2 somewhat expensive.

Do yourself a favor and if you buy the truck and go to replace any replace all 4, I bought my truck when I went to replace mine @ 158k I found one that had been replaced (moog part rest were OE) and it was only slightly better than the others.

As far as covering yourself on distance purchases you'd need to find some sort of escrow service to cover yourself & make the seller happy. There's not much you can do in terms of buying one from any distance and if it's in GA the buyer protection laws for used vehicles suck especially person to person.

The front end bushings, steering, balljoints are sadly only good for 100-200k depending on how the vehicle was driven and how aware you are of wearing parts.

Thanks demonranger, I was hoping that these trucks steering boxes weren't notorious for going bad.

the boxes aren't known for going bad though some do their other semi-common steering probem is the high pressure steering hose. The crimps @ the transition from rigid to flex has blown apart on numerous guys on the diesel boards I personally haven't had that problem w/ mine.

I've heard about that - two of the trucks I've looked at so far have needed to have them replaced.
That's a pretty easy fix though.
Thanks again.