Just got a mig welder, when welding vertical should I go uphill or downhill?

I go uphill. But I don't always do everything right...

I have had the best results welding uphill :)

I got one that's been bugging me...what are some tricks for welding upside down?

Luke

Originally posted by McSoo
I go uphill. But I don't always do everything right...

Only a certified welder would weld "uphill". Most certified welders ( I SAID MOST) welds look like someone threw up all over it.

Originally posted by m715
I got one that's been bugging me...what are some tricks for welding upside down?

Luke

shit, i think I used a 6011 rod, maybe it was a 6010(thats DC right?) Just burn a puddle, move around while it cools, burn another puddle overlapping your previous, move around, let cool, burn another.....

When using MIG you can go go downhill without worrying about sacraficing any strength for what we're doing. If your welding stuff much thicker than 3/8" I would go up, but anything like 3/16 or 1/4 or something you can go down without a problem. It is easier and will look much nicer when your done.

CJ

i'd weld uphill, you can get welds that look good welding down, and have way less strength than u think. But then again if you have welded vertical down, and it holds up good, then fawk it, why change what u are doing if it works? As far as overhead goes, other than gettin burnt to shit, it isnt that bad, just run thin parallel beads, overlaping each other, rather than a single weave. This is just what works for me, the best thing to do is to try shit lotsa ways and see what works for ya.
HTH

i like vert. up myself, much easier for me to do it that way, and i know im gettin into the base metal...as for overhead. never done it but be sure to wear ear plugs, and a hood. nothing like little balls of splatter to burn through your ear drums or roll right down your back under your shirt. ouch!

Hunter

I got one that's been bugging me...what are some tricks for welding upside down?

I hate welding upside down. Some tips? Lots of leather protection. Burning yourself sucks. And don't cover yourself with cotton anything. Cotton burns. I found out the hard way.

You do what you want... Most people(newbies to welding) won't listen. Get out of the habit of doing that vertical down on thicker material(non-sheetmetal). I have seen example after example of joints that were welded vertical down and they have failed- plain and simple. I get tired of saying it, but maybe someone will listen- I'm done.:)

Choke,

Agreed, vertical down is good to about 1/4", 3/8" is where I would definately start to use vertical up.

CJ

Just for shits and giggles why doesnt someone show a pic of some material that was welded "uphill"? Am very curious. By the way, welding "uphill" licks ballbag.

I find that clothing simply traps the spatter as it gets spit out...that is why I weld in my thong, nothing to trap the sparks. Make sure it is the special welding kind though.

Good luck.

GO USA :usa:

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Choke,

Agreed, vertical down is good to about 1/4", 3/8" is where I would definately start to use vertical up.

CJ

Now if you had a machine that would only pull off 1/4" on a single pass... would you still vertical down? ;) Besides the fact that it's simply just a bad habit to get into anyway.

I work at a fab shop, all of our welders are certified. Our inspector says vert up is the most effective method. Going down has the tendency to leave air pockets in the weld, especially if your welding a little too hot, the weld will run and not overlap properly. You can run a good looking bead downward buts its not nearly as strong as upward.:D

Welding this way is something that they teach you in school. Because it's taught doesn't make it the best way. You could produce fact after fact about why welding this way is better, stronger and the way it should be done, but the bottom line is the welds look like dogshit. Weld how you want to and the way that you feel most comfortable.

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
I find that clothing simply traps the spatter as it gets spit out...that is why I weld in my thong, nothing to trap the sparks. Make sure it is the special welding kind though.

Good luck.

GO USA :usa:

Is THAT how you get a suntan ???:emb2:

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
I find that clothing simply traps the spatter as it gets spit out...that is why I weld in my thong, nothing to trap the sparks. Make sure it is the special welding kind though.

Good luck.

GO USA :usa:

now there is a picture I do not want to see! :barf:

i wanna see a pic of someone's vertical up w/ a MIG.. vert. up is the way to go w/ a stick welder no doubt.. but i really wanna see a sweet vert. up mig weld and hear the technique, machine used, gas mix used, etc. up w/ a mig is tough..

p.s. if i had a digi cam i would post pics of the welded joints i keep in my room.. =[

who cares what a weld looks like? you weld things together presumably to hold them in place, if the looks bother you cover em with epoxy later and paint it.
vertical up is the best way to do it, heat rises after all and the puddle dosn't run towards where you are about to weld.
as for overhead buy a leather jacket, do up the collar real tight and buy nice welding gloves, other than that its much like welding flat as the puddle tends to stay where you put it.

If it is a lightweight tab or bracket that won't matter if it falls off, vert down is fine. If I'm worried about looks I burn it in going up, then spooge a downpass over the top of it. :)

OK fawkers, there are two pics of a certified welder welds that knows what he is doing and one that ,well you tell me.

nuther

uno mas

Originally posted by Brawler
OK fawkers, there are two pics of a certified welder welds that knows what he is doing and one that ,well you tell me.

You're kidding right?:rolleyes: I wouldn't want the guy from the first pic making my rollcage.:eek:

From the look of the welds it looks like he gave up the stick welder and switched to a mig welder :D

Originally posted by 85TrailToy


You're kidding right?:rolleyes: I wouldn't want the guy from the first pic making my rollcage.:eek:

The first pic was done by a certified welder that swears up and down that welding "uphill" is the only way to go. That is part of my cooler rack btw. The other two were done by Eric@FatCity. Scary what they teach in school isn't it?

well, here what is supposed to be done!

stick is laid going upward.

wire is laid going downward!
:flipoff2: :D

Ok, now i wish I had pics of where I fixed my frame (tore the spring hangar off and took a foot of frame side plate off with it) I welded the vertical parts up, (using a frined's snap on MIG Powerful enough but the heat settings are incremental (pain in the ballz) It came out damn strong, and did not look bad (ran w+p root and a 3/8 (aprox) weave cover ) It was prob overkill but I like overkill!!! also, while there is a welding thread up I got a few frame repair/ mod Q's

1- welld only short sections at a time on old frames(I have always done this , but is it really necessary?)

2-weld only at angles on frame splices ? I s this really necessary, when I helped shorten the frame on a bus to use as a tow rig we used streight cuts and cut 6' out of the middle of the frame and it has held a shitload of abuse.

That first picture is downright scary! Those second pics look REALLY good. Almost machine made! I wish I could weld that good...

On the welding up and down, I find it really hard to keep the "sizzling eggs" sound when welding down. It always pops and has gaps and ends up looking really nasty. Welding up just seems easier for me. Could it be because of the welder? Mine is a Lincoln Electric WeldPak 100 (no gas attachment :( )

I took the Lincoln Electric Motorsports one week welding class they offer. It is geared entirely towards TIG but I spent a little of my own time on MIG...my instructer said there isn't anything to worry about doing vertical down with 1/4" plate, they consider sheet metal to a degree. They don't promote MIG on heavy stuff, but hey it works well for that too.

I'd trust the instructer a whole lot more than a random certified welder, besides, look how it turned out :P A good weld should not only be strong but look good too IMHO...although that can be deceiving.

CJ

Originally posted by McSoo
That first picture is downright scary! Those second pics look REALLY good. Almost machine made! I wish I could weld that good...

On the welding up and down, I find it really hard to keep the "sizzling eggs" sound when welding down. It always pops and has gaps and ends up looking really nasty. Welding up just seems easier for me. Could it be because of the welder? Mine is a Lincoln Electric WeldPak 100 (no gas attachment :( )

You can get a decent bead w/ a no-gas welder (Flux core) but the max thickness is like 1/8-1/4". You also have to deal with tons of splatter from Flux core.

CJ...Did you ever hear this saying ? " Them that can't, teach. "

Klasic68...yes short welds so the frame won't warp, vert. welds are ok for most uses, I would use angles on something that needed to be real strong (dump trucks ect).

this is gonna sound stupid, but should the little c shapes be pointing up or down when working uphill?

dirtrod,

can't say that I have. My instructer along with some of the others are the ones who do all the welding at the NASCAR and Formula races when teams break stuff at the track. They get to weld on all sorts of random materials and off the wall stuff. I don't think they have much trouble with vertical :P

I'll keep on trusting my Lincoln Electric Welding School instructer...this board is good too though :P

CJ

i assume down, right?

First off I want to say i'm not a welding expert and far from it. I did once hold a light cert (1/4" and under). In school we were taught to weld vert down. I think it's just easier to control the heat on sheet metal wich is most of what we were doing. I have also been told by friends that have unlimited certs to weld vert up on heavier stuff. The slag tends to run down and out of the way going up. Welding down will weld the slag into the weld and make it weaker.
that's everything I know and it aint much.:p

i learned to run up with any machine from a guy who does all his own work,from repairs to his D5 dozer to building his own heavy equipment trailers and on and on.

he taught me;1 2 3.

1 up is 2x as strong as 3 down!

Originally posted by dirtrod


Klasic68...yes short welds so the frame won't warp, vert. welds are ok for most uses, I would use angles on something that needed to be real strong (dump trucks ect).
Thanks, that is what I thought. I think that most of what I learned as far as vert up and shiat is mostly for heavy stuff, and stick, and doesnt apply to MIG as much, but since that is how I learned, and it works well, I do it that way. I think the best trick for thin shit is to use streight CO2 for a shielding gas, most local body shops that do rust work alot use that setup, great for fillin, and shiat, any one know why it works better ???

Originally posted by McSoo
That first picture is downright scary! Those second pics look REALLY good. Almost machine made! I wish I could weld that good...

On the welding up and down, I find it really hard to keep the "sizzling eggs" sound when welding down. It always pops and has gaps and ends up looking really nasty. Welding up just seems easier for me. Could it be because of the welder? Mine is a Lincoln Electric WeldPak 100 (no gas attachment :( )

What Brawler said earlier is 100% true but I just wanted to advise you that when it stops making the frying eggs sound then you are either welding at the wrong angle going too fast or are too far away from the material...and I wouldn't weld anything over 1/4" with your welder unless you have the gas hookup...that machine just doesn't get hot enough:D:D:D

Originally posted by Brawler
nuther

what's that second pic?? mig or stick? are u sure it was done up??????????.. and how "vertical" was it??? let's discuss =] =]

Originally posted by mytzlflick
who cares what a weld looks like? you weld things together presumably to hold them in place, if the looks bother you cover em with epoxy later and paint it.
vertical up is the best way to do it, heat rises after all and the puddle dosn't run towards where you are about to weld.
as for overhead buy a leather jacket, do up the collar real tight and buy nice welding gloves, other than that its much like welding flat as the puddle tends to stay where you put it.

I CARE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.. not necessarily pretty.. but by the looks of a weld u can tell if it's a good weld or not.. a weld that is strong looks pretty in my opinion.. u have to know what to look for.. people that pile up welds on shit and go "it's ugly but it'll hold" are retarded and ignorant.. i just laugh like a bastard when i hear that.. I MEAN COME ON.. sheesh..

I was taught to weld down using stick up with MIG. To clarify: the gun will be pointing in a downward angle as you go up. The wire will push the molten metal as you go up allowing for a deeper penatration. The downside is you will get a larger rise that you would have to remove if you need a flat surface. Exception: you don't need major penatration for auto body / sheet metal- you'll burn through so top down may be necissary depending on your system / skills.

What Brawler said earlier is 100% true but I just wanted to advise you that when it stops making the frying eggs sound then you are either welding at the wrong angle going too fast or are too far away from the material...and I wouldn't weld anything over 1/4" with your welder unless you have the gas hookup...that machine just doesn't get hot enough

I just started welding like 6 months ago, so really, I don't know much about welding. It's plenty hot, it's just going too fast. I have a bit of a hard time finding the right wire speed. But when I find it, everything looks nice and holds good. (I always practice alot before actually starting on the project at hand.) I'll try to find some pics of stuff I've done.

i was taught to weld up and down with stick depending on the rod... and up with mig... vert up with a mig can be just as petty if you practice. make sure you set up yor machine correctly or it's never gonna happen. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by skyjackedtoy


what's that second pic?? mig or stick? are u sure it was done up??????????.. and how "vertical" was it??? let's discuss =] =]

If i wasn't clear i appologize. The first weld was done by a certified welder that says welding "uphill" is the only way to go. The others were done by Eric@FatCity. All welds were done with the same welder, mig. Erics i believe were done "downhill". That pic is of part of my steering colum.

Originally posted by Brawler


If i wasn't clear i appologize. The first weld was done by a certified welder that says welding "uphill" is the only way to go. The others were done by Eric@FatCity. All welds were done with the same welder, mig. Erics i believe were done "downhill". That pic is of part of my steering colum.

Enough with the "certified welder" shiat!

Certified welder DOES NOT = Highly skilled/ educated welder!

Your giving certified welders with skills a bad rap!:flipoff2: :rasta:

Originally posted by CHOKEu


Enough with the "certified welder" shiat!

Certified welder DOES NOT = Highly skilled/ educated welder!

Your giving certified welders with skills a bad rap!:flipoff2: :rasta:

You're right, i didn't leave much room for those that do have skills. My bad!

I JUST GOT IN FROM THE GARAGE. WELDING UP A WRAP BAR AND SOME BRACKETS.I TRIED SOME VERTICLE UP.ITS VERY EASY WITH THE CORRECT SETTINGS. I HAVE NOT TAKEN ANY CLASSSES, JUST SOME INFO FROM CHOKE THE CHICKEN FROM ABOVE.

FOR THOSE CERTIFIED WELDERS WHO CANT MAKE A VERT UP WELD NOT LOOK LIKE BIRD POOP:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I AM NOW A CERTIFIED WELDER:D :D :eek:

OH YEAH MY CRUZAH HAS NOT FALLEN APART YET..

I am a main welder at a fab shop up here in canada . It all depends on the type of gas you are useing , heat range and wire speed . 75 / 25 (globular) is the best all around type of gas to use . If you are goin downhill you better have years of experience at it cause the weld will most likely get lack of fussion and fail under stress . goin uphill is the absolute best way , it gives more of a diggin action then fill . I have a online welding write up that can teach you lots about it , if anyone wants me to email it to them just let me know.

www.adtdl.army.mil/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/q-237/toc.htm

Originally posted by KEVZUKI
www.adtdl.army.mil/cqi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/q-237/toc.htm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It dont work mang!

it's all about vert up... and yeah i've been officially certified... whoopididooo :flipoff2:

Originally posted by masterbeavis

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It dont work mang!

Try this one: http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm

Originally posted by McSoo


I just started welding like 6 months ago, so really, I don't know much about welding. It's plenty hot, it's just going too fast. I have a bit of a hard time finding the right wire speed. But when I find it, everything looks nice and holds good. (I always practice alot before actually starting on the project at hand.) I'll try to find some pics of stuff I've done.


wire speed is pretty simple to figure out....start out with a 20% seperation in volts and speed. for example if your volts are at 50% start your wire speed at 30% and then adjust slightly from there.

Hunter

I stick weld 7018 or 6011 uphill (weaving the 7018 and whipping the 6011)
I mig weld downhill with a little more heat and a little less wirespeed
I hate welding overhead with mig too :D I set the machine at a little less heat and a little more wirespeed and then I "stitch" the weld (on and off and on with the trigger)

Not my .02 but FACT,
Vert up w/mig is definately the best way to achieve the most sound weld.
However on sheet thicknesses down is ok- BUT you do need to know whats going on.

Those two pictures of vertical ups (not that ugly one) are NOT VERTICAL UP! They are downhand for sure- just look at the end of the weld. I would however bet they are of excellent quality.

;) weldpro

Weldpro is right. they ( the two good welds) are not "up". I believe i said that a few times. My point was the quality of the welds. In the long run you have to do what you know and what works for you. I use my fluxcore welder for fixing the lawnmower breakage and welding up my kids go-kart. Good luck.

Originally posted by Supergper


What Brawler said earlier is 100% true but I just wanted to advise you that when it stops making the frying eggs sound then you are either welding at the wrong angle going too fast or are too far away from the material...and I wouldn't weld anything over 1/4" with your welder unless you have the gas hookup...that machine just doesn't get hot enough:D:D:D

unless you have the gas hookup? the little weldpacks get deeper penitration without gas.... keep using the flux.... :D

ok, someone who has done a large amount of welding w/ and arc AC/DC welder help me out, thats the welder i'm about to buy, if i am welding vertically and/or on my back, do i weld up w/ the stick down, up w/ the stick up, down either way?? and on my back, small welds but otherwise same as on top??

Originally posted by aggielr
ok, someone who has done a large amount of welding w/ and arc AC/DC welder help me out, thats the welder i'm about to buy, if i am welding vertically and/or on my back, do i weld up w/ the stick down, up w/ the stick up, down either way?? and on my back, small welds but otherwise same as on top??

to weld vertically w/ stick.. i prefer ac current and 6011 electrode.. go up w/ the electrode angled up at about 15 degrees.. whip it or make little smiley faces.. u want the bead to be a little wider than normal.. practice..

on your back (i assume overhead) w/ a 6011 u can basically weld normal w/ a little electrode manipulation.. u gotta learn to watch your puddle and understand what u see and what u hear.. i get really really solid overhead welds w/ a 6011 that look like they were almost done flat.. practice practice practice.. and be uniform!

Landon, best welds I've done vertical are w/ 6011 going up. when going down the stuff goes everywhere and just leaves a trail of slag. 6013 sucks for vertical unless your going for the metallic ice cicle look.

These are some welds that were done with a wirefeed fluxcore mig welder. 1st pic is of 1/4" flat steel.

this is of 1/8" flat steel

This is of 1/16" sheetmetal. First one is done at a high heat and the bottom was done on a lower heat setting. You can also see how much these welders splatter.

Brawler,
yes, cool.. but all those welds were done vertical down w/ fluxcore.. what are u proving?? =]

P.S.

Most highly skilled and educated welders are NOT mig welders... Trigger pullers are a dime a dozen!:) :D

Originally posted by skyjackedtoy
Brawler,
yes, cool.. but all those welds were done vertical down w/ fluxcore.. what are u proving?? =]

I was just refering back to the fluxcore part of the topic. All the welds sit on top of the material except the sheetmetal one. Just trying to emphasis that one should not depend on a weld from one of these welders to do more than that. I am in no way a pro welder or even a good one for that matter; however, i can tell a good weld from a bad one.

Why have none of the " good " welders posted any of their welds yet. Mine suck but i posted them. Lets see some uphill welds fawkers. Yes, those were done vertical down.

Originally posted by CHOKEu
P.S.

Most highly skilled and educated welders are NOT mig welders... Trigger pullers are a dime a dozen!:) :D

SHUT UP ASS MUNCH....:D

SOME OF US ARE NOT AS SPECIAL AS YOU .:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Almost too much info for my tiny brain. O.K. I'm welding uphill, do I tilt the gun up or down(push or pull the bead), do I make smiles or frowns?

I'll probably get flamed as shit for this, but I pull the weld, and I make a tiny zig zag...

my stick weldin skills arent the greatest, but for vertical, I have the best luck runnin a 6011 root, and weaved 7018 cover. It looks pissa,, and has shitloads of strength. (on 3/8, beveled joint, it takes 2 cover passes, and It is strong as fawk) If I had a digital camera i'd post some pics of my shittty work. My MIG vertical is better looking, depending on the joint gap, I either weave or whip. Another Q for all ya kick ass welders, How thin of plate does a bevel a good Idea??
thanks

Originally posted by Brawler


I was just refering back to the fluxcore part of the topic. All the welds sit on top of the material except the sheetmetal one. Just trying to emphasis that one should not depend on a weld from one of these welders to do more than that. I am in no way a pro welder or even a good one for that matter; however, i can tell a good weld from a bad one.

Why have none of the " good " welders posted any of their welds yet. Mine suck but i posted them. Lets see some uphill welds fawkers. Yes, those were done vertical down.


i am in no way a professional welder, but i do read... according to the manufactors, fluxcore will penetrate deeper than a gas setup... that is all i was saying....

and due to the fact i am not a professional, i try to weld in the best enviroment, position, and prepped material.

ill post a pick of one of my vertical welds in the next day or so.... ill admit that a bigger welder will do it much easier, but you can build an entire rig with a 110 box.... ive seen it done, here locally, and a few people on the board have done it to....

all im saying is the box is weak, dont add gas and it will weld better, maybe not as pretty but better.. :D

Originally posted by Brawler



Why have none of the " good " welders posted any of their welds yet. Mine suck but i posted them. Lets see some uphill welds fawkers. Yes, those were done vertical down.


i have lots of metal in my room i've run all kinds of beads on (tig, arc, mig).. i'll get some digi pics tomorrow and post what it looks like..

Originally posted by CJ5-man
Landon, best welds I've done vertical are w/ 6011 going up. when going down the stuff goes everywhere and just leaves a trail of slag. 6013 sucks for vertical unless your going for the metallic ice cicle look.


first off a 6013 is not an all postion rod, its designed to run flat...also its primarily a sheetmetal rod. low penetration.


Hunter

Originally posted by xjpart2



first off a 6013 is not an all postion rod, its designed to run flat...also its primarily a sheetmetal rod. low penetration.


Hunter

technically it IS an all position rod.. and it isn't difficult to weld horizontally w/ a 6013 (i will show today =])... overhead and vertical on the other hand is very very very very difficult w/ 6013... but the "1" in 6013 designates an "all-position" rod..

Why does the fluxcore work better than with gas (I'm using CO2 and Argon mix now but was using a fluxcore for a long time).

Thanks

Originally posted by skyjackedtoy


technically it IS an all position rod.. and it isn't difficult to weld horizontally w/ a 6013 (i will show today =])... overhead and vertical on the other hand is very very very very difficult w/ 6013... but the "1" in 6013 designates an "all-position" rod..

doh i knew that...and actually refering to some notes ive got floating around, 6013 is supposed to be run vert. down..but i use a hobart 135 for sheet metal so who cares :D

here we go.. not that i even remember why.. but here..

all welds are on 1/4" metal and all electrodes are 1/8"

6013 horizontal:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/blangfor/welds/horizontal6013.jpg

6011 overhead bead:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/blangfor/welds/overhead6011.jpg

6011 overhead T weld:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/blangfor/welds/overheadT6011-2.jpg

6011 vertical up T weld:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/blangfor/welds/verticalupT6011-2.jpg

horizontal mig:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/blangfor/welds/horizontal%20mig%202.jpg

I have to say i like the 6013 better that all the rest. The mig looks like you prefer stick:flipoff2: . Thanks for takin the time. Think i'll go with 6013 3/32 rod for my onboard Mobi-Arc.

Originally posted by Brawler
I have to say i like the 6013 better that all the rest. The mig looks like you prefer stick:flipoff2: . Thanks for takin the time. Think i'll go with 6013 3/32 rod for my onboard Mobi-Arc.

6013 ALWAYS looks best.. 6011 IS JUST STRONG and deep penetrating.. those are all pretty welds.. much magnified lookin in the pics.. flat 6011 is the only thing that'll really look super pretty and smooth like 6013, but w/ a less curvy shape and more of a "flat top".. the horizontal mig is also good.. some mig machines just don't look pretty and it also depends on the gas.. that horizontal was done w/ a stitch technique and 25% argon 75% co2.. i can mig w/ the best, it's just too easy :D
:D :D :D :D :D
peace...

I've been the sheetmetal trade for about 20 years,
done some welding, I've got some vertical up welds on a car trailer that I built. If you would like to see them i would send someone a pic if they email me, cause I aint the best computer operator, if you know what I mean

Being a pipefitter as well....I agree with what Choke says......

There are a lot of rod burners out there in our trade, but I wouldn't have them on my job.

I only weld vertical....have to with Lo-Hy rod.

Originally posted by McSoo


I hate welding upside down. Some tips? Lots of leather protection. Burning yourself sucks. And don't cover yourself with cotton anything. Cotton burns. I found out the hard way.

Just went through this with a mig welder. I ended up cranking up the heat, turning the wire speed way down, and moving fast. So far... the welds have been holding fine. And that 7' bead I did is about the only thing holding the ramps up when I drive mmy Jeep 31" up on to my trailer bed.

Welds didn't even look that bad, I just kept myself out of the way in case a blob fell down.

I weld fuel and hydraulic tanks all day long at my day job. I was reading these past 3 pages of posts claiming that downhill welds are porous and hold air pockets, and blah, blah, blah. Obviously, I can't have any leaks in the diesel tanks I weld. On one of the tanks I need to weld up, I run a CONTINUOUS 36" long weld downhill. I haven't had one leak in over 7 months. And that's 3 tanks a day. There are also three separate panels that get welded at the same time. The first panel is 3/4" thick, second is 1/4", the last is 12 guage. They are all first tacked together in a one long panel, then the whole assembly is welded to a single sheet of 10 guage forming the tank bottom and one side of the tank. I have to vary my speed with each thickness, but my setting stays the same. Let me tell you, going from 3/4" thick to less than an 1/8 " thick with a 300 amp welder maxed will keep you alert.
There is nothing wrong with a downhill weld done with a well adjusted wire-fed welder. Core flux welders are junk just because they require so much heat to penetrate. Just adjust the heat and speed properly, hold the gun at a slight angle up and weld the mo-fo. Geez, it's starting to sound like everyone that has done an uphill weld expects God-like respect. All you did was wasted a little time, then wasted a little more time pattin' yourselves on the back. Yay. Good job. :rolleyes:

come to a steam room that's 130* in leathers w/no circulation and try and make a weld during a tie in where your on a ladder and can't see from all the other pipes that are in your way.......if the specs call for lo-hy, you have to burn it up hill or it will trap debri.....

Not patting myself on the back, but damn I'm good!!!! I have to do this all the time. Welding in a fab shop is easy.....get out in the field and put your crazy skills to the test!!!!! BTW....no wire feed on the job, all stick!!!!

:D I was waiting for that! Yes, stick is a whole new world. I have about 6 friends of mine who work on a pipeline site. They invited me to come over and give it a whirl. I have done a lot of welding with a stick, but I did learn a few things that day. But, C'mon, this is the new millenium, why would you bother with a stick welder in the garage when there are so many cheap, good wire feeds out there? When I first got into the "serious" alterations of my rig, I knew I needed a welder. But after talking to some people about welders, I knew there was no point buying anything other than a 220 gas, wire welder. I couldn't afford it at the time, but needed a welder so I bought the one stick welder that I knew I could always use-a Premiere Power Welder! Yes, I built an entire rig(several times) with my onboard welder! I did it in the winter, with a hose on my exhaust(after trying it without for a month and spending a night in the hospital!), and no need for a heater. Hell, you think a room full of steam pipes gets warm? Lay underneith dual exhaust attached to a big block Chrysler running 3000 rpm for two hours straight! I've used other stickers since then, and none have ever worked better than the PPW! It wasn't real bad until it came time to build a crossmember for a traction bar right behind my dual exhaust dumps! It took me a week to gather the cash to go buy a wire feed!

So I am not saying that there is not a need for vert-up, but in a garage, in a controlled environment, why bother with a stick?

That's why you have both......I do, just as you stated you do. :D

I'm comfortable w/a stick, but in some cases I do use my wire gun.

But, uphill will produce a stonger weld.

There are some good welding articles on Millers (http://www.millerwelds.com/main/education/technical_articles/) site.

just my .02

pretty much in agreement w/ everyone but have some of my style explainations for fun.

-welding uphill you can turn the power down but leave the wire same because you get about 2x the penetration. If you are lazy like me and don't want to change anything you may just point the wire at a severe angle uphill basically (not touching but close) laying the contact shield in the puddle. Then you can keep the weld actually going up hill rather than the puddle just building up and running out. I don't have to stop all the time and wait for it to cool this way.
-I don't weld uphill too often because it's hard to keep it pretty. I'd rather just turn down the wire speed and shape the weld better while going down hill but still aiming uphill.

Also learn to duck and cover...if you ever saw the volcano southpark episode you know what I am talking about :D Sux when that damn lava drops on you and scatters!

If any of you are really "certified"you know you can go either way.One is fawking ugly the other is not.
I prefer to weld in position but if I can't make that happen I weld down hill or at least move it to a slight angle.
You have to stay ahead of the flow or you won't get the penetration you need.
Welding down hill can be difficult if you are making a large bead but so can up hill. I prefer down hill with three passes(smaller beads with less gravitation).
As for total vertical or upside down get a machine with reverse polarity and play with that...I think you'll like it a lot better.
-Kerry

Well time for my .0036978237612 cents worth of info.
I own and operate a fab/4x4 shop and have so for 5 years now. I have taken 3 different welding classes each 7-8 months long in my earlie years. They involved Metalurgy as well. Lots of shit to remember, lots of shit to forget, but lots of pertinant info from guys in the know. The best teachers are ex-welders in many different fields(ie shipyard, pipefitter, chassie work, etc) I would however say the shipyards welders are the most scrutinized when getting Nuke certified.

I am in agreement with the guys who make a living welding that you can MIG up or down, but down is better looking and when the machine is adjusted right dame strong.

Having said that the definition of a weld as one of my instructors once said is a weld that does the job effectively and meets the requirments for whats welded together. I mean if its a tacked on CB holder who cares if its up/ down ,sideways so long as it does its intended job. Pretty welds are nice but an ugly weld does not mean its not strong and doing its intended job.

A tip for all you welders that have a cheap AC only welders(cheap at garage Sales) Try running some 80 AC plus rod and you will never want to use 7018 AC rod (or any other ac rod for that matter) if at all possible(position or designation exempt). It runs smoother than 7018, looks better, and is 80,000 pounds tensil strength rated.

With stick welding there are so many styles of welding vert, T, j-hook, whip, etc its more of a what ya like the best for the intended situation(ie do ya need a wide weld, skinny weld, flat weld, etc). I myself like vert up with a Inverted T stroke.

Being a fabricater is more than just simple designing. I mean by this that its designing something so that you can get the job done with as little going back as possible. It saves customers time $$ and results in a better product.
Thats confusing i know, but as an example, when i am welding something up, i plan it so that as i am building it i can make all my welds in the flat position when possible, rather than go back later when its installed and weld up the vert and overhead stuff. I will turn shit upside down if possible before i will weld upside down. I know on the undercarriage and cage stuff its not always posssible. So give credit to the fab guys. Alot of people bitch about cost of shit but if they had a clue as to what goes on inside a fab guys head and the amount of experiance it takes to be able to look at nothing and creat something, they would drop jaw and ogle.

Opps got off topic there....

Welding is like super glue for big kids. You can quote me on that too. Its fun as shit welding stuff together and designing it. So all in all if you are not that good,take a $15 Community College welding class, learn the basics, and more then put it into use and perfect YOUR style with your knowledge. You will lear cool tips like run straight co2 for hotter better penatration over say 25-75 argon/co2.

I have recently switched over to a way more expensive wire for thicker stuff and will never go back. Its Triple 777 Dual Shield wire in the .045 size(smallest it comes in). It has the inner flux core and uses a gas shield. Talk about the smooth surface you get and pretty :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Penatrates way deep in the base metal. Try it sometime if ya have the welder for it(220 machine recomended). All my products will be welded with this from now on. It easier cleen up(spatter), better looking, and stronger in MY mind.

Lastley NEVER weld something you are not absolutley sure will hold if its a LIFE affecting weld. IS steering, suspension, rollcage.
I would rather pay someone who does welding every day to weld it than chance it. Confidence and experiance is everything when welding.

RANT MODE OFF, clime down from soapbox, go to bed......sleepy

:skull: Fleckster :skull:

I've been keeping up with this entire thread ever since it came up a while back and have taken some very useful information from it. Anyway, my welder is a Craftsman 30-230 Amp AC HD Arc Welder that has been around for years and was passed on to me from a good friend. I've also done a lot of welding for a friend on his Jeep. I recently welded some extensions/uprights on his rear bumper with his AC welder using 6011's with a vertical up weld. Once I tacked it in place on both sides and the top with about one inch welds I took a big a$$ 20 pound sledge and took home run style wacks at it. No movement and no cracks resulted from th hits. Once the welds were completed I took a grinder and ground them down flush and smooth and found no pinholes. I feel confident in the welds, but have heard a lot of myths about welding vertical with AC current. Any thougts....

If it was thicker steel did you at least leave a gap (usually the width of the rod for the application)????

If not and the weld was more on the surface, you said you ground it down) then you just severly weakend the weld by doing this. With a gap you can be assured of penatration through the metal, and grinding the top flush should not weaken it that much.

Fleckster

Ahh, just fawk it. If it falls off, stick it back on. Hell, with the mood I'm in today, I'm gonna sell my welders and start using that metal glue that the auto manufacturers are sticking fenders on with.
I grind and smooth all exterior corner welds I put on HD bumpers. Haven't had any returns or complaints yet. If it falls off, you'll have learned something. That's worth the time and effort in itself.




Oh, and welcome, Newbie.:flipoff2: And only 1post. Kinda like a pretty little Virgin, aren't ya'? It's gonna be a rough break-in here on the POR board...bring a Kleenex.

There was a nice gap that allowed for penetration due to the orientation of the two pieces that were welded. Before the uprights were added his bumper was a piece of 2x4x1/4 cut at a 45 on the ends. To give him a little rear corner protection we clamped a piece of 2x2x1/4 against the cut end. The edge of the cut and the edge of the square tubing made a nice little valley to allow for good penetration. We then came up x number of inches and cut out a notch and then bent the tubing up to 90 degrees and welded it up and capped of the top.
Oh, I may be a newbie to the board, but I'm not a newbie to the sport. That's for damn sure.

Now having just read through all of these posts I personally like the 7014 Rod over the 7018 or 6011 or 6013. That is just my personal prefrance. i'm not NO pro or "Certified" but that is the road that lays down the best weld for me. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by dirtrod
CJ...Did you ever hear this saying ? " Them that can't, teach. "


Your an idiot if you really believe that!

DO any of you Millwrights or welders ever have to weld piping for food applications? i.e. pneumatic conveying, producting conveying (liquids)..etc?

Can someone explain "whip" or "weave"? I make a little zig-zag back and forth as I'm moving forward.

Originally posted by LAME
DO any of you Millwrights or welders ever have to weld piping for food applications? i.e. pneumatic conveying, producting conveying (liquids)..etc?

Yup, food process pipe. I put facility lines at Pepsi, Starbucks, Del-Monte, and others. All 304 and some 316L.

Don't blame me for any metal shavings you find in your Frappicino's!:flipoff2: