i know that everybody always says its a no-no. BUT what i am looking for is an opinion as to whether or not an auto will hold up behind a powerstroke in an excursion that will be used as a daily driver and tow rig. it will be driven about 50 miles a day, plus about 1500 miles of towing every year. not including other trips without the trailer like to the beach and vacation and stuff. over all about 15,000-18,000 miles a year.

oh yeah and i will be towing anything from one rig on a trailer to two rigs on a trailer at 75mph on the highway.

thanks!

I know 3 or 4 people that have blown their trannys in F-350 Powerstrokes in the last 2 years. I don't know why FORD just doesn't get it?
Although I don't own one, from what I've seen I would not, no way, no how get one with an auto but my daily preference is with a manual anyway.

adam, in case you haven't noticed i've been doing my powerstroke research for the last couple weeks too. This is what I've found...the dealers will all tell you that you want an auto because they have 20 of them on their lots. The 6-speeds are VERY hard to find, in fact the dealer i went to searched from chicago to LA i believe and only found one. My daily preference is a manual just because I like to shift. I got to test drive a 6-speed F350 dually and liked it much more than the autos. Also I've gotten advice that Excursions don't tow nearly as well. After all my research i've decided to get an F350 Crew Cab with a 6-speed. If you check one out you'll see that they have more than enough room inside plus you get the bed for hauling stuff. definitely go to www.ford-diesel.com and check out the forums there. If you have any other specific questions PM me, I've been looking into these things non-stop for a while now and hopefully i'll be buying one soon.

-Steve

Get an auto if you want it. Heat is the thing that kills autos when you tow. Add an after market cooler. Most problems were with the 99's with undersized cooling of which ford has fixed.

Dan
:blender:

you want diesel with an auto


Go GM ther new Duramax diesel and the Allison 5 speed auto is kick-ass or eaven an later year like a 97 or 98 etc with the 6.5 turbo diesel with the 4l80E (is that rite) is a buliet proff setup


My uncil works at the locel International delership and he told me that Powerstaroke is not a very well built moter in fact it is cheaper to buy an replacement then it is rebuild on


The dodge commings diesels are good but I dont know anyting about there trannys except the 727

I put 140,000 miles on a 97 PSD with an auto towing a couple of times a week plus the weekends, sometimes over 30,000 lbs gross. The guy that has it now just had to put a trans in it and it now has 220,000 miles on it. I changed the fluid and filter every 25,000 miles. On the other side of the coin my current co. truck is a 95 with 115,000 miles on it of which i only put the last 20,000 on and its on its 4th trans. so who knows ?

Originally posted by 9-Volt
i know that everybody always says its a no-no. BUT what i am looking for is an opinion as to whether or not an auto will hold up behind a powerstroke in an excursion that will be used as a daily driver and tow rig. it will be driven about 50 miles a day, plus about 1500 miles of towing every year. not including other trips without the trailer like to the beach and vacation and stuff. over all about 15,000-18,000 miles a year.

oh yeah and i will be towing anything from one rig on a trailer to two rigs on a trailer at 75mph on the highway.

thanks!


I have a 97 F350, CC, LB, 4x4, PSD that gets used just like what you mentioned. It is a daily driver for my wife, about 40 mi a day not including "other trips" Tows about 1500 mi a year, snow machines and a small boat, and has made one very long trip to CO and back. Currently has about 80K , serviced very well. The tranny has had a "chip" installed that quickens up the shifts and allows the coast clutch lockup and be used as a trans brake,,,,very nice for towing. I've serviced the trans twice, no undue wear showing in the pan. It has no shutter in the converter to this day. One thing with the E4OD, if you start to feel a shutter while it shifts... Service and or replace that tranny and or lock up converter soon.. It's a easy rebuild (at the shop, me no like auto rebuilding) if you catch it prior to the converter letting loose.

My dads 97 powerstroke puked the tranny at 39,000 miles.

It was not warrantied by the dealer, the shop I took it to said he's sending his kids to college on $$$ made from Powerstrokes pukin up trannies:eek:

with all these trucks it seems like it's a lot of luck. The newer the model you get, the greater chance you have of the company having fixed the problem and you getting a good one. I know some people with duramaxes or PSDs that get 12 mpg and some that get 20...some go through trannies every 30,000 miles and some last for 200,000...some knock and cackle all the time and some have 100,000 miles on them and sound perfect. You could get a great Excursion that runs perfectly, gets great milage, and never needs major service. OR you could get a shitty one that :nuke: the tranny immediatly, needs service all the time, and gets 10 mpg. I personally am going with an F350 with manual tranny, tcase and hubs because i'd like to minimize my chances of having something :nuke: (not to mention i dig shifting). Overall the Excursions are good trucks, the PSDs are good motors, and you'll more than likely love it, but there's always the possibility you'll get a bad one.

-Steve

my cousin does the ordering of trucks for 2 ford dealerships. they buy trucks that sell and the reason they have very few 6 speeds is because they don't sell very well.

i just bought a 2002 4x4 cc psd and one of the reasons i got a auto is several of my friends have them who are in the excavating business and tow heavy loads every day with them and only one of them has had a tranny go and he even admitted it was his fault for always going 70mph with the over drive on. they other reason i got an auto is because shifting sucks. :D

Camo,
I got a lucky fiver here that says if you tow the monster 5th wheel you're talking about you will :nuke: a T/C within the first 30000 miles. Whadda ya say?!?! :flipoff2: haha

BTDT, bought the new truck. :beer: :smokin:

If you have an auto, you shouldn't tow in overdrive. With a manual, you can tow in 6th gear all day long. So you can go faster, and get better gas mileage with a manual. My .02

My buddy has a 99 PSD w/ an auto. It has 80 + k on it and he has had no problems with the tranny. We have used it to tow a toyota truck 1200 mi. 3 times and he's towed a 32' boat to the beach , 3.5 hr drive, acouple times. He loves it, and would never get rid of it.

I had a 1996 f-350 w/auto and 250,000 miles no problems .It saw heavy use .

I've never had a problem with the auto in my '97 PSD CC 4x4...I've only had it a week though:D .

I decided that having an auto was important enough to me that I could deal with the possibility of tranny replacement. I'm getting really sick of shifting and would much rather have an auto.

First of all, do NOT drive around town with the overdrive on. Even though it comes on automatically when you turn the key on you can either just remember to turn it off or buy a switch inverter for about $180 (intermotive products) so it no longer comes on when the key is turned on.

Install the largest oil cooler available...like other people mentioned "Heat KILLS an auto" so keep it cool.

You can also try using synthetic ATF.

ON MY 97 F-350 PSD I LOST THE TRANS AT 90,000 I REPLACED THE TRANS AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM AGAIN. I NOW HAVE A 97 F-250 PSD W/ 70,000 MI THE TRANS IS IN GREAT SHAPE. I DO TOW A LOT APPROX 2000 TO 5000 MI A YEAR FROM SNOWMOBILES TO BOATS TO MY WEELER. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU TAKE CARER OF YOUR TRANS. I RUN SYNTHETIC OIL AND CHANGE IT EVERY 8-10K MILES ON MY F-250 AS IT COST ME OVER $3500. TO REPLACE THE LAST ONE THAT I LOST. I HAVE NO INTENTION OF REPLACING ANOTHER ONE

I never hesitate to use overdrive towing, you just have to know when to use and when not to. The 97 i put the 140,000 mi on i used to pull heavy shit at work plus i had a 35ft fifth wheel travel trailer that i pulled plus i would tow my bikes or watercraft behind that. Just service often.

Originally posted by RokHeep
Camo,
I got a lucky fiver here that says if you tow the monster 5th wheel you're talking about you will :nuke: a T/C within the first 30000 miles. Whadda ya say?!?! :flipoff2: haha

BTDT, bought the new truck. :beer: :smokin:

with any luck it will blow at 35900 miles that way i can get a new one under warrenty. :flipoff2:

haha! Very true. IF you have an understanding service dept, which I'm sure you do! :flipoff2: :beer:

Originally posted by Lance
If you have an auto, you shouldn't tow in overdrive. With a manual, you can tow in 6th gear all day long. So you can go faster, and get better gas mileage with a manual. My .02


yes, but not really.... i just bought a psd with 80,000 miles on it. so i looked into the towing in od thing, the e40d is supposed to be able to tow in od.... i know a few people running these trannies, one in a huge motor home and havent seen a problem yet.... you will definately get better milage out of the 6 spd... if the tranny goes, ive allready looked into it and you can build it with better parts.... a 30,000 btu cooler is a good addition, also a tranny temp gauge.... banks, along with other companies, have a trans command, that quickens the shifts so it doesnt slip between the shift... that helps alot.. (slipping causes heat) also a torque converter lockup (used alot with exhaust brakes) helps keep the tranny cooler.... there is an alluminum planetary gear set in the tranny that mushrooms.... there is an upgraded steel one that solves that problem.. ( this was suggeted to only due , when you have to rebuild) plus tons of other shit like different valves and shit....


a 6 spd id say is stronger, but you may run into clutch issues....


if i were to purchase a new truck it would still be the auto.... i would rather the 6 spd, but i have had a total of 3 surgeries on my shoulder, with a 6 spd i would of had to sit at home.... with the auto i could drive to the bar for some :beer: :D that is something to think about, if ya break a leg, fawk up an ankle, fawk up an arm..... with the auto , you can still get around.... and i hate being stuck at my house... i like to roam!

the newer psds' (and other fords) use the 4r100 tranny.

I have a 01' and the manual says towing in OD is np. the unit has a 60% manual lock up and a 40% hyd lockup on the converter. Now do i tow in OD all the time... no... use your head... I also kick it out when in town as it will tend to lug in od when it can...

the only problem with the 4r100 is the fact that its rated for ~500ft/lbs and the new psds put out ~525ft/lb

solution is simple don't do "jack rabbit" take offs... search for this on the www.ford-trucks.com and disel sites.. Keep wheel hop to a min. also the tranny cooler on mine is hugh.. But ill be adding a temp guage to monitor it...

I think the 1 thing the is overlooked is who drives the vehicle and how they drive it. Im passed daily by "construction" type rigs with 5th wheels belching black smoke as they zoom on by... id guess they might be some of the ones having trouble....

FWIW: the larger f450/f550s etc have allison tranny options so with a trans and adaptor im sure a swap would be simple... (on my 2wd)

-yag

FWIW: the larger f450/f550s etc have allison tranny options so with a trans and adaptor im sure a swap would be simple... (on my 2wd)
[/B]

The F-450 and F-550 do not come with an Allsion. The only automatic you can get is the 4r100. To get an Allison in a Ford you need to get at least an F-650.

Stephen

I would rather run a manual in mine for towing but with the wife I gotta have a auto. You know you have 100% lockup when the clutch is all the way out. The new trucks come with temp gauges. I plan on installn one in mine and upgrading to a larger cooler. Does anybody else have an opinion on synthetic fluid? Friction plates and all dosen't seem like the best idea but I have run it before when I first built my truck.

Originally posted by inphobic
The new trucks come with temp gauges.

They do come with a tranny temp gauge, but it realy is nothing more than an idiot light in disguise. The same thing as with Ford's oil pressure gauges. I would recommend buying an aftermarket gauge for the tranny even if you have one of the newer trucks that comes with the gauge.

Stephen

The company I work for keeps a fleet of appz. 250 powerstroke auto's. Wel keep them until the 250k mile mark and then auction them off. We normally keep them for appx 5 years. We have very very few problems with them , and they are towing(appx 10k-15k#'s) 50% of the time. Are maintenance schedule is strict, but remember these trucks are driven in the most part by insividuals who do not treat them anywhere near as well as one would treat their own rig. But, If you want a real rig just buy a cummins.

>>But, If you want a real rig just buy a cummins.

Dodge and Ford both have lousy auto transmissions. If you spend the money to beef them up, they should be fine. Also, remember that adding aftermarket power upgrades will not be nice on the auto. transmissions without beefing them up.

Duramax with the Allison is having lots of problems too. Exceed a specified torque (like 525 ft/lbs) and the engine goes into limp mode.

You're best bet for towing is a manual. ZF6 on Durmax and PSD's.
NV 4500 or NV5600 (6 speed) behind Cummins.

Charles

There is no great option.

Powerstroke transmissions 101:

Automatics:

94-97 used E4OD which seem to die at around 100Kmiles more or less. There is a rebuilder in Arkansas, Brian's Truck Shop, that can make them last.

99+ use the 4R100, which is an improved E4OD. Not sure how well they last.

Additional coolers and filters are a good idea if towing heavy loads.

Manuals:
94-97 Used ZF-5. Will last if you double clutch to make life easy on the sychros, otherwise they tend to go. Also runs very warm if towing in OD. Big problem is the Dual-Mass flywheel sheets it's guts at about 100K miles. Luk makes Single-mass conversion kit for around $5-600 including clutch that fixes this. I like this option best, so that is what I drive.

99+ Uses ZF-6. Got rid of the DMFW (good move) Also added pump and cooler (like an auto...also good). Lower first is good for towing, but the choice of ratios for 2-3-4 is rather strange, not a nice progression at all and leaves some ugly gaps. 5-6 almost match 4-5 in the 5 speed. L and R are on same rail, so it is nice for jockying a trialer.

Gear teeth are cut directly into the countershaft, so there is no way to change ratios on the manuals unless you swap in the whole V-10 or 460 gearset, with different, but not really better ratios.

I've been a member over at http://www.ford-diesel.com almost since it started. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that the manuals DO NOT get better milage than the standards...and it really pains a 5 speed owner to admit it.

I have a 97 F250 PSD Crewcab 4x4 SB auto that has 110K miles on it. I have had no problem whatsoever with the tranny. That's with yearly trips to Moab from Georgia towing my EB (~4000 miles round trip) as well as many other 2-4 hour wheeling trips with towing duty throughout a year. At 100K I put in a Western Diesel chip which changed the shift characteristics quite a bit and added significant power. I tow in OD too averaging 75-80 mph. If you want an auto I'd say go for it. You'll have 100k miles on the drivetrain warranty if you need it.

FWIW.

Ford's 5yr/100Kmile warranty covers ONLY the engine. (not even the accessorys bolted to it) Transmission is only covered to 3yr./36Kmiles unless you buy an extended warranty. Even then you are covered only for the first third of the life expectancy of the engine

Originally posted by fj40charles
>>But, If you want a real rig just buy a cummins.

Dodge and Ford both have lousy auto transmissions. If you spend the money to beef them up, they should be fine. Also, remember that adding aftermarket power upgrades will not be nice on the auto. transmissions without beefing them up.

Duramax with the Allison is having lots of problems too. Exceed a specified torque (like 525 ft/lbs) and the engine goes into limp mode.

You're best bet for towing is a manual. ZF6 on Durmax and PSD's.
NV 4500 or NV5600 (6 speed) behind Cummins.

Charles

Funny you should mention this as my buddy with a Dodge Cummings has lost 5th FOUR times since it was new and i haven't had nary a glitch in my PSD auto :D

Not saying autos are better, just that it's a crap shoot anyway you look at it.

Originally posted by Kevbo
Ford's 5yr/100Kmile warranty covers ONLY the engine. (not even the accessorys bolted to it) Transmission is only covered to 3yr./36Kmiles unless you buy an extended warranty. Even then you are covered only for the first third of the life expectancy of the engine

You are correct-my bad :p

Originally posted by ARokCrwlr


Funny you should mention this as my buddy with a Dodge Cummings has lost 5th FOUR times since it was new and i haven't had nary a glitch in my PSD auto :D

Not saying autos are better, just that it's a crap shoot anyway you look at it.

yeap, buddy of mine just got a new tranny in his 2001 dodge, seems there worse than the fords.....

Not sure if the Dodge transmissions are worse, or just that the Cummins has much larger torque spikes that are going to beat the shinola out of anything you might put behind one. I think the Torque spikes or not, the Cummins is a helluva engine...too bad it comes in a Mopar wrapper.

It comes down to this... If you've got an auto and tow with it, you MUST these topics...

Go overboard with the cooling. Slap the biggest tranny cooler you can find on it. Put a dedicated auxillary fan on it even. Run a tranny temp gauge. Install a shift-kit. Don't run the tranny in OD while towing... Cough up a few extra bucks in gas and live with a few extra REVs on the tach or a few miles an hour less on the freeway. You can do all of this stuff for a couple hundred bucks and your tranny will love ya for it. :beer:

My Father in law has a 99 F350 4X4 PSD auto and the tranny blew at 42,000 miles. on his previous truck 94 2WD F350 he went through 3 trannies in 150K.

funny how you get so many pro's and con's for ford. Just get what you know you want, it's all about luck...




Just goes to show nothings perfect and people should stop bashing on each other's interest in a certain manufacturer...

Originally posted by 14AVIEW
funny how you get so many pro's and con's for ford. Just get what you know you want, it's all about luck...




Just goes to show nothings perfect and people should stop bashing on each other's interest in a certain manudacturer...

Note to NEWBIES, do not post on month and a half old dead threads unless you have something good to add. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

-Steve

Not much choice with the Excursion - it only comes with a auto, so if thats what you buy thats what you will get -AUTO. I personally wouldn't buy one, but then again i have never even seen my truck come with a auto in it (F-550)

hey offroadr35
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: and that wagon you road in on!

Who made you god you prick!

One thing I have to say about this board, people love to shit on other people here, I don't mean to disrespect this board, but at least I show respect for this board, No one wants to hear your little bullshit comments offroadr35.



I'm outta here.

Originally posted by 14AVIEW
One thing I have to say about this board, people love to shit on other people here, I don't mean to disrespect this board, but at least I show respect for this board, No one wants to hear your little bullshit comments offroadr35.



I'm outta here.

hey newbie. if you don't like our ways then get the fawk out.

Originally posted by 14AVIEW
One thing I have to say about this board, people love to shit on other people here, I don't mean to disrespect this board, but at least I show respect for this board, No one wants to hear your little bullshit comments offroadr35.



I'm outta here.

uh oh, another newbie with their panties in a knot :flipoff2: