would you join, pay dues, vote, and support a rockcrawling driver/spotter association? this association would be established to; not limited to nor absolutely include: manage team insurance plan(s), consider legal and safety concerns, coordinate efforts for the betterment of the sport and of the association, and to represent the individual members as an association.

would depend on the detailed info, if it even smelled the "U" word, no. No offense to anyone.

I remember a person getting in alot of trouble for talking about this?

I think it's great idea to organisee for insurance and mutual support.

The hard part will getting a concenus on issues dealing with rules and such.

Even though we take a lot of heat from all corners concerning rules and safety issues, I think it's the promoters place to gather information from the teams, and sponsors, then and make decisions on rules based on that sanctioning bodies goals for the future.

Rich

Jees, I hope this is not taken the wrong way...

an association yes, union no. organization is good for the sport.

I would be interested only if the association bylaws prevented collective bargaining with with promoters. I think that would potentially harmful to the sport. (HNL ring a bell?) If this association was for mutual support, and economy of scale for insurance and promotion I would go in on that.

As long as we can be more accurately represented as a whole, and is done fairly and not used to negatively impact the sport, this can be a very good thing. " We" could mean a whole lot more this way!

would depend on the detailed info, if it even smelled the "U" word, no. No offense to anyone.

I have no opinion yet. When someone mentions union...either people freak out like you spilled coffee in their lap or some people say it's awesome. Why no union??? What's the fuss? Keep in mind...no opinion here. :D

belive it when I see it

I'm sure some are for it- so I don't want to offend- but I've worked hand in hand with many, in my experience- we are way better without- wrong outlook- to much us and them and that's all I'll say.

Whoa there folks! I don't think anyone had in mind an association with any intention of influencing the promoters, or anything else even resembling a "UNION". I too would not be in favor of anything even close to this.

I guess I do see the POTENTIAL for abuse in an association. We would just have to take steps to insure that it was not abused.

The only reason for organizing an association that I have read mentioned is for the purpose of obtaining liability insurance for the driver and spotter.

As I have read in the other thread, if you are competing, your ass is hanging in the breeze as far as liability for any injury to a spectator or damage to other's property is concerned. Flop over on top of some ignorant red neck standing too close and it's all over! Regardless of any waiver they may have signed, or who's fault it is, all his family has to do is FILE a law suit, and 98% of us couldn't even afford to defend ourselves. Nor can we afford event specific insurance as individuals. The first time this happens, our sport is GONE!

Sure, the real money is going to eventually be paid out by the insurance company that carries the policy for the promoter, but I will guarantee everyone in sight will be named on the suit, and that's all it will take to bankrupt most of us.

Just something to think about as you hammer down over that last obstacle with a huge crowd standing around cheering.

Who gives a crap what you call it! We are banding together for representation of the group. NHRA is not a union,AMA ,UFWDA,we have a better shot of getting this done as a group. Lets not start pissin and moanin about what it will be known as. We need to move foreward.

How about starting with a MISSION STATEMENT! That could put some fears to rest.:flipoff2:

This is what I was working on.

The mission of the Rock Crawler's Driver's Association is to generate growth and a positive public apperance for our sport by implementing safety measures for our vehicles that protect our physical safety while seeking, as a group, the highest level of liability protection for our investments at a fair price.

Basic, but its a start. Your right though, start with a clear mission and build the organization around that with good intentions and things will take care of itself.

Like one broker told me doing it this way is like wearing suspenders with a belt and it would be cool if W.E.Rock and UROC could offer this insurance at an extra fee to the season $$$. But what do I know..:shaking:

i was reluctant to phrase a mission statement before seeing alot of comments and number of intersted teams. i think it should come a little later. i'm sure, if we ever get to the point of some kind of group coverage, the inusrance underwriter will have certain demands and requirements relating to safety and standards. like it or not, that would have to be negotiated between the association (and it's insurance) and the various promoters/site owners. these negotiations could seem "union like" to some, especially if the association would have to take a stand on some points in order for the policy to be in effect at a particular venue. might as well bring that up in the beginning of this discussion - everybody here, has been around the block a few times. distance between course and spectators, type, height and quality of barriers, are some examples of things i can foresee being mandated to insure us. these are things out of our control and would require the cooperation of those putting on the events. if i buy the $4500.00 policy as an individual and the underwriter says no spectator may be within 10 feet of the vehicle during competion and i show up to obstacle #3 and the yellow tape is sitting over a cone then what would i do? this will all eventually bring about more control of us, them, courses, rules etc... search NHRA insurance and injuries = you can read the court case about the wheel flying into the audience. that case is apparently not even decided yet, since the appeal, but it caused NHRA to examine their barriers, seating distance, and require a major wheel requirement change. but, they are still racing - if that happened to us now, every related website would probably be "under consruction" - permantly) mine would.
so, no not a union - but, it would have to be responsible for collective negotiations with insurance companies and promoters/site owners in order to get the job done.

Guys- I don't think anyone is moanin. We were askled if we would be for it, I want to know what the church is going to preach before I put my Sunday clothes on:)

I wish this was like Church because a few people need "healing":D
The kind where the get a good jesus tap on the head and knocked to the ground!

:flipoff2:

ttt

ttt

Tom,

I just missed you during practice. At this point with the season approaching I'm sourcin' quotes for individual team coverage.

Will you be down in February?

Seems like a good idea as long as it stays a competitor run organization.

Guys- I don't think anyone is moanin. We were askled if we would be for it, I want to know what the church is going to preach before I put my Sunday clothes on:)

amen