1982 Yamaha XJ650 (Maxim 650)

All right, I have a problem either with my clutch or my gearbox and I'm trying to see exactly where I need to start.

What happens is when I start the bike and let it warm up for a bit, I pull the clutch in and try to kick it into first gear. The bike dies, I stick it back in neutral, and try again.

This usually occurs about 15-20 times before it goes into gear.

Here are the main points:

I. Bike leaps forward a bit when I kick it into first, whether it dies or not.

II. Once the bike is in gear, there is no clutch drag, I'm not being pulled forward at all.

III. You can hear the gears grind occasionally when trying to put it into gear. Either the bike will die right out, or there will be some slight grinding.

IV. After a long ride it is difficult to find neutral.

V. During riding the bike sometimes will kick into neutral rather than second gear. (Could be popping out)

VI. If bike is left running (warm) and I put it into neutral, put the kickstand down, if it leans for more than 30 seconds it will die when I try to put it into gear and usually takes 3-4 tries to get into gear.

Here's what I have tried so far to rectify the problem.

I. I've adjusted the clutch freeplay to manufacturer specs.

II. I've put in a lighter oil (was 20w-40, now is 5w-30 semi synthetic).
(This seemed to help for the first two days, the bike would go into gear quickly, but now it is doing the same thing as with the old oil.

I would like your insights as to where to start diagnosis.

My best bet is that the friction plates are worn past spec and need to be replaced and I'm hoping the clutch basket isn't ruined.

Your thoughts?

Also if I lean the bike to the right and pull the throttle a few times and pull the clutch in fast a couple of times it usually goes into gear easier.

Once the bike is running if I kick it into first at say a stop light it will not leap forward.

sounds like a clutch to me...

You think it would just be the plates or do you think the hub might be grooved a bit?

i would start with the clutch.

as far as the hub. i'm not sure what you mean. you mean the clutch basket? i doubt that would be bad. the pressure plate may be worn, depending on how many miles and how bad the clutch is, but i still doubt that would be to bad either.

my bet is the clutch.

check the clutch and let us know.

Yes I meant the basket, my bad. This morning it was grinding a lot and it took me ten minutes to get into gear, its getting worse by the day and I'm afraid of damaging the gearbox. So looks like its getting parked until this problem is rectified.

Now I can't believe this. I called around in town to see if anybody had time today or tomorrow to take a look at the clutch. Nobody even wants to touch it, they say its too old and they don't want to deal with it.

I'm a decent mechanic but this is my first bike and really didn't want to take a lot of time doing this, but looks like I'm diving in head first. I've ordered some replacement friction plates and some new springs from JCWhitney that should show up in a couple days. Now I'm going to take my steel plates and see if there are any gaps in them.

Any tips or tricks I should use while I work on this bitch?

they're pretty straight forward in my experience.

some bikes have a steel ball behind the pusher piece that pushes out the pressure plate. watch for that so you don't loose it.

oil the friction plates and put them in the way the old ones came out.

chances are, if it is as bad as you say, the steel plates will be bad as well. it's rare when the springs go bad but they do from time to time on different bikes.


do you have a set of micrometers? you will need them to check the thickness of the plates.

also while your in there, inspect everything in sight.

especially the shifter fork that spins the shifter drum. the end of the drum looks like a star. these forks sometimes are adjustable. check out the shop manuel and check it. they sometimes get bent by people down shifting too hard with thier heal.

have fun.

edit: you'll also need a set of calipers to check the springs free length.

I've ordered a new set of friction plates and springs will I need to use the micrometer on the new set.

I thought this bike only had like a few thousand miles on it? How many total miles does it have? Well if it is your clutch that is causing all these problems it will be obvious, ie no need to mic any parts just replace. And go ahead and rip in, it's pretty straight foward. Slipping out of second gear however is not a clutch problem, it is a gear and shift fork problem( always replace as a pair). It sucks that no one in your area will work on any thing older than 10 years, I have a small motorcycle shop out here in mesa az and at least half the bikes I work on are older than 10years. However no dealership will ,did you only call dealers? Keep asking questions, I'm more than willing to walk you through it.
Hope we can help Redbeards

you need to fix or bypass the kickstand saftey switch (the bike will not let you put the motor in gear if it thinks the kickstand is down,

also you need to readjust the cluch and may even have to adjust the idle speed, it may be idleing to fast and or the cluch is not disingadgeing so it will grind into gear,
also check the clutch cable ends to make sure the cable has not started fraying,

didint we cover this in your last post link (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415227)

The bike actually has 32,700 on it, but the guy only drove it 3,000 miles in the 13 years HE owned it (or so he says, BS I'm sure). But yeah I'm just thinking with second gear I'm not kicking it up all the way, I wear thin shoes most of the time, when I have my boots on its never a problem, so forget about that one.

Do you guys know who sells the metal plates if they are bad. JCwhitney doesn't have them but I'm going to check yamaha's site again. I know that they had a lot of parts, probably lots of $$$ though from the dealer.

I doubt its the safety switch due to the fact that the bike jumps forward upon trying to put it into gear.

I doubt its the safety switch due to the fact that the bike jumps forward upon trying to put it into gear.
the yamaha maxum I had would jump forward when I had reved the motor to about 1500 rpm and stuck it in gear (before I realized the kickstand switch was bad) at idle 900-1000 rpm it moved alittle when it was put in gear, replace or bypass the switch it will fix your problems and im talking from experiance

also if the bike is stalling as soon as you put it in gear amd the bike runs fine in neutral but dies as soon as you stick it in gear it would definitly be the kickstand safty switch,

follow the wires from the saftey switch up under the left side cover and look for the relay the wires go into, un plug that relay and the kickstand safty switch will be bypassed, but without the relay the bike will only start in neutral,
that is how I got around the stupid safty switch,
try it

K I will give that a try right now. Hope you're right.

Would you happen to have a picture or could tell me exactly where the relay is I can't see or feel all of the way up the wire to trace which relay it goes to.

Ok I found the relay as far as I know. Traced the wires as best I could, it would've helped if my guide would've given me some wire colors. Unfortunately, it didn't help.

Edit: The colors of the two wires in that relay were black and Blue/yellow. I've got a full diagram for the 1983 model that shows four wires: Black, Blue/yellow, Black/white, and Red/white.

Now I'm not sure if this differs in the 82 model but my bet is that they would be the same.

Amazingly though, I just found a ten dollar bill lodged in between a lot of the wiring, so I can eat lunch today... sweet.

But anyways back to the clutch. Got the cover off and the plates out. Looks like theres a few knicks around the edges of the metal plates and the tips of the friction plates are rusted very badly. There is also one last friction plate in the back of the basket that I can't seem to get out.

Is it supposed to stay there or could it have rusted itself to the basket which I'll probably need to replace anyway.

If that last friction plate is that stuck to the inner basket, that is your problem. So definately get some picks and remove that last one. Then check to see if the inner basket rotates freely(spins),in neutral of course,also see if you can rock the inner basket up and down. If so the bearing or the bushing whichever it has is wore out and allowing the inner basket to bind against the outerbasket, obviuosly bad and would cause youre problem. Next take a look at the fingers sticking out at you, do they have worn ridges from the friction plates beating against them if it looks like it has staggered indentations, it's bad also could cause your problem. Also check the inner basket where the steel plates ride,typically less damage here anywaybut same style indentations.
Now for the plates if your plates were simply wore out,ie thin, it would not cause your problem. The bike would not jump when you put it in gear it just would not go, and it surely wouldn't kill the motor. What would cause you're problem is warped plates, so lay them on something flat and look at them. It would have to be severe and obvious to effect the clutch they have alot of play. I've only seen this once and it was do to improper installation at the last shop. Check you're plates for thickness and discolaration, burn spots. Now before you install new plates they need to soak in motor oil for a minimum of 20 minutes so it's lunch break time:D then install in the reverse of removal,:flipoff2: A dot of blue loctite on the threads of the clutch bolts is truely wise,I LOVE LOCTITE, Oh yeah look close at those fuckers make sure the threads aren't already stretched And keep in mind they break all the time. don't feel bad just replace them and use a torque wrench.
As for the neutral safety switch re plug that thing in it is by no meens the cause of you're grief. And however it is absolutely hilarious to watch some dum newb make the first left at the end of the street and pogo them selves off the kickstand and highside themselves onto the curb to the right of the bike :laughing: :laughing: . If your kickstand safety switch was to blame it would not have let you ride it in ANY gear not just when you drop it into first.
So please be it you are new rider keep those simple switches in operation people really do forget they're kickstands.Good luck putting that sidecover on with the lever mounted in it, either you get it right the first time or you cuss ten more times:mad3: , remember the little arm is splined for a reason.
gitr done ,red

Great advice guys.

Got the last plate out, left a a very tiny burr which I fine-filed off and it feels perfectly smooth again. I put a small film of oil on my finger and got any metal shavings out of there.

The plates have burn marks all over and rust all over the plate tips. However the bearings are tight and there is absolutely no play. The last plate that was stuck also had quite a bit of warpage. I've ordered new metal plates as the others were worn out. Should be here in 2-3 days.

I'm gonna finish making sure there are no other knicks or burrs in the basket and if everything looks good things should flow smoothly.

Would you happen to have a picture or could tell me exactly where the relay is I can't see or feel all of the way up the wire to trace which relay it goes to.
I dont have a pic or the bike anymore I sold it 5 years ago,

Great advice guys.

Got the last plate out, left a a very tiny burr which I fine-filed off and it feels perfectly smooth again. I put a small film of oil on my finger and got any metal shavings out of there.

The plates have burn marks all over and rust all over the plate tips. However the bearings are tight and there is absolutely no play. The last plate that was stuck also had quite a bit of warpage. I've ordered new metal plates as the others were worn out. Should be here in 2-3 days.

I'm gonna finish making sure there are no other knicks or burrs in the basket and if everything looks good things should flow smoothly.
a warped plate will give you problems

The clutch basket is perfectly smooth now.

a warped plate will give you problems

That's why I'm replacing the plates.

Got my new plates in, went and started tightening everything down. Discovered my torque wrench sucks ass at low torque settings (click style). I broke one of the spring bolts clean in half. Luckily I managed to get the end of the bolt out and I'm now waiting for a new set. I'm headed out tomorrow to buy a dial indicator torque wrench to get the job done right.

Almost there but that really pissed me off.

Did you soak the friction plates in a bucket of fresh oil for a few hours before putting them in?

Yup, they've been in the oil for quite a while now I'm still waiting for my bolts.

All right, everythings been put back together and the clutch works great. I've only come across one last problem which seems to be with the cable. I adjusted the free play after I attached the cable to the control arm which moves the clutch pull rod. Everything was good but I drove it around after a while and heard a pop. My cable instantly went completely slack.

I looked down at the control arm but it was in the same place I put it at when everything was put together. I moved the freeplay adjuster as far as I could and I got it so that the clutch would fully release and grab, but there's still about double the freeplay in it that's recommended. So far the only thing I can think of to get the freeplay correct again is to pull off the cover and move the control arm backwards a little to compensate for the cable slack.

Any other ideas so I don't have to waste time draining the oil, pulling the cover, and readjusting 1/4" to make up for the cable problems?