GRSIII????

[Rudezuk]

What is this thing that i have heard on a couple of lists now about a GRS3?? What is it, where is it and how do you get one??

[Tusker]

I had heard of it too a few months back. I don't remember where though. I do recall that it was VERY expensive. I would wonder just how much the Samurai t-case can handle gear wise before it explodes <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

[Rudezuk]

I have heard it off and on too...i called petroworks and Matt said they didnt know anything about it?? Sammi case is pretty tough!! It is a lot better than a NP231 (chain drive)!!

[Gozuki]

Pleaase dont think the tcase is strong! When you build the rest, it WILL break!!!

[Tusker]

Rudezuk, you should look at that Toyota tranny and dual t-case setup if you want to spend that kind of dough on gears. It should be ready soon, strong, and with a Marlin Crawler thrown in there, <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> baby!

[fatkid]

Just curious, how low do you want to go? Really. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Rudezuk]

Well, im running the GRS1 but im going to go to a 36 or 37" tire.....I like the crawling that i have with the 33's!
I just spent a bunch of money going to the Offset D44's and dont want to change those out, so the toy set up is out for me right now..

[0ILBURNER]

I spoke with Gary at Petroworks several months back about this GRS III rumor, and all he would say is that it is much different than the GRS I or II. And that it did not use the Samurai t-case. I would tend to think it would be something along the lines of the Klune-V.

Petroworks is of course in business to make money and switches it's product development focus towards the most proffitable/popular items. Perhaps with the advent of the Klune-V and Toyota goodies, they are working on something else other than gearing.

Guess we'll just have to wait & see. <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

[fatkid]

Anyone run a Klune? The Klune is my only real option to get deeper gearing. However the price of it is worth more than the whole Suzuki. It would also put me at supt'n like 300+:1 and that is kind over kill to me. I would like to get a little more but it's has to cost effective.

[poppycock]

i got my gearing down to 94 to 1. if i did a klune it would take me too 376 to 1. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> that's a little to low... i was thinking of maybe trading my grs2 for the old sj case and $$$ and then a klune? would keep the gearing from getting ridiculously out of hand and it would take a big bite off the price of the klune... but it would still probably cost around $2000. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> someone needs to get off their ass and make an economical way to get your gearing down and retain the high range.

[scwafish]

The guy that runs roadless gear (Figmo?) was trying to get deposits for GRSIII gears around six months ago, they were not a petroworks product, he was just using (ripping-off) the name. They are 5.67 gears and were around $1500.

Tim Hardy will also make gears in the 6:1 range for a little more. He has done it several times before.

[poppycock]

i wonder if the gears and the case can hold up? if it could it would be some nice gearing.

[Samit Patel]

I heard calmini was taking out a new gearing for the tranfer case. It would be around the 6:1 ratio. The price on them are going to be about the same price as the grs II from petroworks. I beleave they are some sami around with the calmini 6:1, testing the gears. That is all the info i have on the 6:1, any other info I come accross I will post. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

[scwafish]

Samit-thanks spending so much time with us giving us the low-down on your suspension, I really appreciate it!

[Alfred]

What you might consider doing is the following...

move the whole engine/tranny combo as far forward as possible (you might find 2-3"), shorten the cardan between the tranny and the transfer and hang another divorced xcase in between (from a junkyard)... worst case you need a cv driveshaft in the rear...

i guess the cost should not be higher than 500 bucks...

we are doing the same thing on my cj6 (which admitedly is longer than my sam, but the TDengine/transmission combo is also way longer than the samurai combo (its exactly 1,5mts))

think about it...

you would have high, low and low-low... and putting the 2nd transfer in neutral you can run pto stuff off the front output of the stock transfer...

i hope i can post pics later this week from our cj6 project

later
alfred

[figmo]

Originally posted by scwafish:
<STRONG>The guy that runs roadless gear (Figmo?) was trying to get deposits for GRSIII gears around six months ago, they were not a petroworks product, he was just using (ripping-off) the name.</STRONG>

scwafish,
I will ask that you please not slander my good name or that of my company. I have never ripped anybody - or anything - off. And I have many many satisfied customers who can back me up on this.

The incident you are referring to was when I was first made aware of the lower gears from a quality mfg in Austrailia. I did not know the term "GRS" was trademarked by Petroworks and the instant somebody pointed that out to me - I ceased using that term. This is documented in the Topica list archive. See http://www.roadlessgear.com/thefarc/farcdetail.php3?i=213169

How you choose to research (or NOT research) your information before posting to a public forum is your business - until you mention my name. Then it becomes my business. And I am VERY protective of my business.

-Figmo http://www.roadlessgear.com

[poppycock]

everybody just take a deep breath and relax. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> i don't think he was talking down your company, your product or your good name.

[scwafish]

Figmo-I didnt have to do any research, I saw YOUR multiple GRS III posts on topica about six months ago, thats a fact. At that time people told you GRS was a petroworks "trademark" and your attitude was whatever. If you've stopped using it, good for you. I am not slandering you, that would mean I making it up, to burn you, but the fact is that is the way it went down.

People in our club have bought stuff from your business, and I've got no beef with you so take it easy. Just passing on what I know.

[figmo]

On 2/26/01 I posted the first message about possibly being able to get "GRSIII" gears. On 2/27/01, Wayne pointed out that name was trademarked by Petroworks and I immeadiately stopped using the term. This is not how I remember it - it's how it happened. It's all documented to this day in the archives for the world to see.

However, I can understand how you might be under the mistaken impression that there were multiple posts referring to the trademarked name. As people (including myself) reply to messages we often times leave the subject unchanged. And since the subject line read "GRSIII" - I guess "technically" you are right. There were multiple messsages from me with those letters used in that order.

But I can assure you - I never used that term in the body of a message again. No information posted to my web site about the gears referred to them by that name. And there was never, ever, not even for a moment, not from the start, ever any intent to "rip off" the phrase from Gary. It was a simple misunderstanding that lasted all of 24 hours.

I apologize to the board if I came off sounding harsh in my first post. Please attempt to put yourself in my shoes and try to imagine how you would react if you saw your name and the term "rip off" used in the same sentance.

scwafish, let's chalk this whole thing up to a "poor choice of words" - on both our parts - and move on.

-Figmo http://www.roadlessgear.com

[0ILBURNER]

FWIW,

I can find no record of the term GRS being a legally registered trademark of anyone, not that anyone would actually use that moniker on a non-Petroworks product. It costs a LOT of money & time to patent a something or register a trademark, but it's easy to put a little "t.m." by anything.
<IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

[scwafish]

Figmo-Deal! Wasn't trying to dis ya', lets call it good.

Oilburner-Thats why I put trademark in quotes, because it isnt really a tm, just that most people associate GRS with petroworks.

[ammelk]

Heh Figmo,
What ever did happen to the low gear set from the boys down under..
-Thanks
ADam and Mary C.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

[fatkid]

Ahhh, isn't that sweet you guys made up. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[figmo]

Originally posted by ammelk:
<STRONG>Heh Figmo,
What ever did happen to the low gear set from the boys down under..
</STRONG>

Last I heard (about 2 months ago) - they had a prototype set in a vehicle and they ran the hell outta it for a while, pulled the gears out and x-rayed them for signs of stress. They noticed some heat cracks in them and went back to the drawing board.

Bad news is - this will delay the release of the product. But the good news is - I think this speaks volumes for the quality of the mfg. Some others may have just said "to hell with it" and sold the gears anyway to start making money. Personally - I'd rather wait and know that what I'm buying has been tested, and then tested again to ensure that they wont grenade on me out in the middle of nowhere.

As soon as I hear more info on this product you can bet I'll be posting it. I just can't call them GR....ooops....I almost said it again <g>

-Figmo http://www.roadlessgear.com

[fatkid]

Alright, wich one of you ladies cried to Figaro? Show your self, tell me it was by chance that his first post was on this thread where he was being talked about. <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0">
Come awnnn, Get it!!!

[ammelk]

Not me boss, Not me... <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">...
<IMG SRC="smilies/innocent.gif" border="0"> (does anyone remeber that short dude from fantasy Ilsand.....da plane boss, da plane.. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[fatkid]

Funny, now get back in line! <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[ammelk]

<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> Yessssss Bossss <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[fatkid]

Originally posted by Samit Patel:
<STRONG>I heard calmini was taking out a new gearing for the tranfer case. It would be around the 6:1 ratio. The price on them are going to be about the same price as the grs II from petroworks. I beleave they are some sami around with the calmini 6:1, testing the gears. That is all the info i have on the 6:1, any other info I come accross I will post. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

I just got a e-mail back from Calmini about there new gears, they couldn't say more than the new ratio was 5.75 to 1 and they should be out by fall. It might be worth looking into come fall.

[Rockhopper]

Hi Folks, In regard to the above post,I just wanted to clear a couple of things up. This isn't a shameless plug, just some information for you.
The gears in question are from our company. They'll be available from Figmo at Roadless Gear, or Glenn at Rocky Road. Both these suppliers come highly recomended (I shop with them myself).
The gear reduction is 19% in high range and 170% in low (6.129) Yes, that'll be too low for a lot of people, there not for everyone.
No case modifications, and yes the cases are strong enough.

Regards
Liam Quigley
Rockhopper Super Low Transfer Case Gears.

[0ILBURNER]

Liam, you have not cleared anything up - actually accomplished the Opposite <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"> I spoke Directly with Calmini and they confirmed that they will have a new gearset out in the Fall as described above.

So it appears that there are 2 different mega-low transfer case kits on the way <IMG SRC="smilies/grinpimp.gif" border="0">

[zuk88]

prices <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0">

[scwafish]

With stuff like OTTs new divorce olate why bother, especially if your running toy axles.

[0ILBURNER]

...because you can add as many Toy t-cases as you want, and it won't change the hi-range - in fact, you lose All the hi-range reduction even a stock Samurai t-case has (1.41:1) by going with Toy 'cases. I have a GRS II & 5.29's w/ 36's. If I went to Toyota transfer cases, I would have to change my R&P's to 8.7-something to get my hi-range back to where it was. Either that, or run one of the boxes in low and then I'd have to change my R&P's too.
Besides, the price of the t-case kit will be substantially less expensive than buying a Sidekick bellousing, bellhousing adapter, Toyota tranny, two Toyota transfer cases, Plus a t-case adapter, Plus driveshaft mods & mounting changes.... Damn! Somebody add all that up! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

[fatkid]

How long is the rear drive shaft with the toy double stack on a Zuk? I added it up and to make it lower than what I have now it would cost around 2k.

[0ILBURNER]

Not sure on those driveshaft lengths, but I would think you'd want to go with Toy 'shafts, and they would have to be shortened.

You didn't say what your target crawl ratio was, but if the stock Toy t-case low is 2.2,
then two cases would net you 4.84:1, which isn't even as low as a GRS II. So you'd have to pony up for the Marlin 4:1 kit, too.

You can buy a GRS II "kit" for $750 or so....

[scwafish]

There is a big difference with the OTT set-up, in that it just replaces the t-case, you dont need a trany, or bellhousing or anything else, it makes it divorced just like stock. There are a lot of toys out there running around on 35-36 inch rubber running 5.29s without additional hi-range reduction.

A doubler is $450 and gears are $400. I dont know what OTTs plate will cost but even if its $500, that would be around 180 to 1 for $1450. And you get rid of that tiny t/c and the hoky mounts, and eveything lines up for toy axles. The length of the rear d-shaft, would depend on how much of the intermediate shaft you remove. IMHO it is a fair price for the benefits.

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: scwafish ]

[0ILBURNER]

Sorry I misread your post - I assumed you were referring to another kit.
I am uninformed <IMG SRC="smilies/blush2.gif" border="0">
Where is more info on this divorced Toy kit? I have never heard of it.
So it's a plate that allows you to use a Toy t-case (or 2 of them)instead of the Samurai case?

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: TIM JUSTICE a.k.a. 0ILBURNER ]

[TNToy]

<font color="yellow">
Stock Toyota Low-Range....... 2.28:1.
marlin crawler gears.............. 4.7:1
Advance Adapter gears.......... 4.0:1

Two stock cases... 2.28 x 2.28 = 5.1984
Stock, A.A........... 4.00 x 2.28 = 9.12
Stock, Marlin........ 4.70 x 2.28 = 10.176

Toyota 5-speed transmissions are approx. 3.95 in first gear, with the 22R/2RE four-banger, and have a .87:1 overdrive gear.

The primary advantage of the Toyota cases over sammy cases is their strength. I don't know of anyone who has run a 4.3L Vortec with a Sammy case without an impressive fireworks display (once).

I have two friends who have run Toyota's with a chevy V8 & tranny adapted to the stock T-Case. They have a total of 3 years and lots of thrashing on them without a single failure.

The primary disadvantage of the Toyota transfers is, as was already mentioned, cost. I would probably only put Toyota cases in a Sammy if I were also going to use the Toyota 4 banger and it's complete drivetrain.</font>

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: MasterYota ]

[fatkid]

I was thinking about the Bobakisan adapter plate, as far as the target low range I have no target, but to spend the money and time it would have to be worth it. As far as strength I like the 1.3L and plan to stick with it so the T-case hasn't been an issue. As far as the rear D-shaft, I have a Toy front CV and I'd hate to see it get shorter.

[rob]

I know you guys generally run swb sammy's but there are a couple that run lwb's.Now here is something I have been pondering in my head and have slowly put parts together.If you run 2 sm420's using OTT's adapters to the rest of the toy stuff then you could get overkill low and the ability to leave the tcase and r&p stock for strength.It would still have an overdrive effect and by placing the gear box into third you could still cruise pretty well in town with tires as big as say 37's.You wouldn't need low range and your gear choices could be endless for all occasions without having to stop and throw it in low range.You could get 204:1 in high range and 465:1 in low.You would also have 37 potentially different gears.It's just a thought.I have a lot of the parts now but I need cash for some of the other stuff.Then I have to figure out the coupling.I think there should be room but the nibbler will be busy.At least it might take care of some rust.The beauty of this setup is you can go from stock sized tires all the way up to 44's and never have to regear.Let me know if anybody has the capability of making spline couplers if you can and what kind of denero we would be looking at.The plate and collar should be really easy just a little work on the lathe.

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Robert William Lundy ]

[scwafish]

Hey, when you think about its all good news...there are now (or going to be) several ways to get a toy t/c into a sami. Really low gears are about the only thing they have been really lacking. And the lack of a sidewinder when running toy axles is also sweet.

To the web wheeler formerly known as fatkid-if your worried about the length of the rear shaft, you just make the shaft from the tranny to the t/c shorter, which moves the t/c forward,which makes the rear shaft longer. I'm glad to see your man enough to openly express your concerns about have such a short shaft. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Rememer, that even if it stays the same length, it will FEEL longer with the kink out of it. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[poppycock]

what kind of pices on these 6:1 tcases? are there warranties against breakage? pick another vendor! rocky road licks ass. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> nothing but trouble

[fatkid]

Yes it's short, but it's fat. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
Have you shortened the itermediate shaft before? I've never given it much thought, did you do it your self?

[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: fatkid ]

[scwafish]

Since I've already hacked the piss out of my chassis and bought most of the parts, I'm committed to using a married set-up that includes a toy tranny. But if you look at the Klune set-up the intermediate shaft is tiny, which is how they keep everything in the stock location so I don't think shortening it a little or a lot is a problem.

[Gozuki]

I run a 1.6 8v and 2wd tranny, I shortened my int. shaft to about 8"...No problems. I will be getting rid of it, but not because of any probs w/the motor or tranny. My GRSII torqued itself apart on sledge, I have no trust in sammy cases anymore. And yes, the mounts were beefed, the case had the add. support on the rear, blah blah blah. I am going to great lengths to eliminate the tcase, so a toy case would be a great idea IMHO...

[bobaki]

Hawk shortens that shaft till there is only 3/4to1inch of shaft between the 2 u jointsfor the tracker engine/tranny conversion

[Gozuki]

Thats about what I got, I was referring to joint to joint ...

[scottz]

. I'm glad to see your man enough to openly express your concerns about have such a short shaft. Rememer, that even if it stays the same length, it will FEEL longer with the kink out of it.
<IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0">