I am getting ready to order a dual case crossmember/skidplate and although I can find info on each design I wanted to hear from people that have used one or the other or maybe someone has seen both in action?

Well I have the Front Range Off-Road (http://www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com/) crossmember so I am probably not much help, but if I had it to do again I would get Bud's, just because it is less expensive and Bud is a cool guy.

I know that Zuk had a FROR x-member and is now running a Budbuilt x-member and Mike Fox (blackntan) had an All-Pro x-member and is now running a Budbuilt x-member. Does that help you at all? :D

Get the Front Range crossmember & skid.

Front Range Off-Road (http://www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com/products_t_case_accessories.htm)

i just ordered one from bud, he's one of the nicest guys out there.

dave

Thanks Dirty Harry It sounds like Bud is the way to go. Thats the way I was leaning, but wanted to make sure.
Anyone else?

I just ordered my Budbuilt too. You can't beat the price and bolt on simplicity. Plus it's beefy. FRORs x-member is okay, but you have to weld in new mounts to the frame. I'm not sure if it's worth all the touble for an extra .5" of clearance, if that. And the skid plate is extra. I never understood why they didn't just include it in the price. To me the x-member and skid should be one unit. So the total with the skid is $388 plus shipping :eek: Buds was $264 to my door and all I have to do is bolt it on, peice a cake. :D

BUD! Love mine. Simple design. Strong.

Yea, go with Buds all day long... I think if you did a search with his name in the topic, I think the results speak for themselves...

Anyone know Buds phone #? The one on his website
(716-481-0653) was wrong.

that is 716-481-9653
Close but no cigar...
Email me is better tho. Will be checking all night.
Thanks Guys!
If it matters, I like mine! :)

ran my allpro x member over the countrys hardest trails and it performed flawlessly. not to mention they are a sponsor of this site so support them :D

Originally posted by camo
ran my allpro x member over the countrys hardest trails and it performed flawlessly. not to mention they are a sponsor of this site so support them :D

Hmmm, no straight answer here.....:rolleyes: (although, a good point.) They both make good x-members, so I say give them both a call and let customer service be your guide.

Have no experience with Bud but have beat and hammered All-pro on all Tellico has to offer almost every weekend for over a year and still as good as new.

I went with budbuilt. hella nice guy. I dont actually have mine yet cause I agreed to wait and pay early (cant hold onto mula).

Anyway, I cant say anything about performance, but I can say the FROR one looks like nothing BUT a crossmember. i would rather have some protection under there! That was the main point to me... i already have somehing to hold my Tcase up.

I like Buds cause it looks to be the beefiest. I like beef.

I just installed a single-case Bud unit about an hour ago.
VERY BEEFY and just bolt on, I also got the skid plate.
All bolt holes lined up perfectly. Not bad for aftermarket.
Ordered mine thru Inchworm in Walnut Creek.
I was more interested in protection than maximum possible
clearance.
It comes unpainted, so you can go wild with colors if you want.
I just used battleship grey.

I went with the All-pro. Great ground clearance and it is burrly. It's like a roll cage for the t-case. I beat the hell out of mine and other than a few scratches it's as good as new. :smokin:

Is there anything wrong with the All-pro design? :)

Originally posted by fatkid
Is there anything wrong with the All-pro design? :)

The only problem that I have with the "design" is that if you decide to do a drivetrain lift you are kind of SOL. . I know that Bud will custom make you a crossmember for a drivetrain lift at no extra cost, that is why Mike Fox switched. For people like myself who are indecisive and change their mind every day :rolleyes: the FROR design is good because YOU weld it in however high you want.

As for supporting All-Pro, I am an All-Pro whore (I have their springs, spring hanger, rear disks, e-brake, and cage kit) but I like the other crossmember designs better.

I support All Pro, I've got their hy-steer. It's great, absolutley no complaints. In fact, it's so sweet I could really use an extra set of free arms, mine are dirty :flipoff2:

Like dirty harry said, the AP design is a nice peice of work, I just think Bud nailed it.

Also, with a budbuilt, you can get a dual case skidplate and 15 dollars extra in hardware and convert it to single case easily. Then once you finnally get dual cases you can just take ou the extra hardware and run it.

That is what I did, fit my needs perfectly.

(Note: running a dual budbuilt with single case requires a .5 inch drop spacer so that is bad but not bad considering...)

You shoulda made this a poll. These guys love poles:flipoff2:

if youre not doing a drivetrain lift get whichever is cheaper and convenient, theyre both great (reputable) sources. i got the budbuilt so i could raise everything on my belly 2 inches...roger brown sells the engine mount spacers(bulletproof) for ~$75 a set....

all the trails ive ran, i went with a buddy who runs the allpro, neither one of use ever get hung up high centered...

Another vote for a Budbuilt x-member.:D

Both are good design's but I belive in the quote(keep it simple stupid) so I would go with bud strong and simple.

Hey, camo why dont you have budb sponsor this board too i'm sure he would be down one crossmember per mounth or something.

Originally posted by John H
I beat the hell out of mine and other than a few scratches it's as good as new. :smokin:

Well, then it sounds like you need a BudBuilt! I have one with 1" of lift, try as I can I can't hit the thing!

The only thing I ever bought from All-Pro was their t-case skidplate. It did not bolt up! :mad: I had to re-drill the holes in order to intall it! It was a bitch because it is so beefy. I could of probably sent it back but it would of probably cost me :confused: plus I needed it for a run that weekend! Like the fact it uses the stock t-case mount. Does Buds use a mount?

Originally posted by KLF


Well, then it sounds like you need a BudBuilt! I have one with 1" of lift, try as I can I can't hit the thing!

Sound like you need to wheel alittle harder:D

Originally posted by woody99
The only thing I ever bought from All-Pro was their t-case skidplate. It did not bolt up! :mad: I had to re-drill the holes in order to intall it! It was a bitch because it is so beefy. I could of probably sent it back but it would of probably cost me :confused: plus I needed it for a run that weekend! Like the fact it uses the stock t-case mount. Does Buds use a mount?

Yup, Bud's uses the stock Tcase mount. (or two, if a dual)

Chalk me up as another vote for Bud.

You know, part of what I do for a living is product photography, and I never EVER thought of using SNOW for a background!

Way to go Budbuilt, that is original.
:D

Well... A friend of mine, put on an All Pro crossmember for another friend of mine (he's on this board, we'll see if he chimes in :flipoff2: ) and he said that the AP cross member was a biotch to install, he had to re-drill the mounting holes. Similar to the post above I think. I don't mean to bad rap All Pro, both Chris and Jon have been more than helpful to me at one time or another and they've got a great business going!

I've made a couple of cross member on my own, and the last time I screwed up and raised it up a bit too much, fawking my driveline angles all up, so I opted to just say to hell wit it and ordered a bud built. It's suppose to get here Monday, so I'll let ya know what I think once I get her installed.

Originally posted by Rabbit
Well... A friend of mine, put on an All Pro crossmember for another friend of mine (he's on this board, we'll see if he chimes in :flipoff2: ) and he said that the AP cross member was a biotch to install, he had to re-drill the mounting holes. Similar to the post above I think.

That will be me,he's right the holes did'nt line up at all and i also don't like the fact that it only attaches to the front case leaving the rear one to move all over the place ,other than that it is pretty burly

yup allpro's was a major pain in the ass to install on my buddies truck. Thats why I'm getting a budbuilt, besides I want to raise the drivetrain a few inches.

Budbuilt.... Do the lift and get the double :D

ive wacked the shit out of the budbuilt and it has only bent the skid plate, the actual crossmember is indestructible:smokin: :smokin: heres a cold one for you bud:beer: :D

if you lossen all the bolts on the bud built to just a couple of threads, it make clutch changes on the trail alot easier. the tranny and xfer box(es) drop down an inch or so and just slide back supported on the flat surface of the xmember. spent a couple of hours laying on my back in moab this way...:rasta:

then you tighten the bolts down to raise the tranny to align the tranny output shaft in the clutch as you push it in, easy peasy...

Sounds like we have an all american hero


Heres to you Mr. toyota crossmember skidplate builder!:beer:

I like the AP crossmember. It's held up fine to my driveshaft vibes quite well :D I will agree w/ the above posts. My holes didn't line up either. I used a die grinder. Nevertheless, great product.

For what it's worth... Budbuilt's product looks good in the pictures.

Originally posted by budr
that is 716-481-9653
Close but no cigar...
Email me is better tho. Will be checking all night.
Thanks Guys!
If it matters, I like mine! :)


Hey bud dont forget the new area code 585 It will be changing sometime.


Nick

Originally posted by skulltoy
Sounds like we have an all american hero


Heres to you Mr. toyota crossmember skidplate builder!:beer: :beer: :D :D :D

single plate of three-eighths stock with no gusseting on a 4000lb. truck...sounds like more movement then I had this morning.

All pro gets the beef,just enlarge the holes...
no big deal

I had the same question a while ago... but I wanted a Drive train lift, that left out all pro, so I went with Budbuilt...
Now the lowest point is the x-member at a wapping 26" :D and the gastank is at 27.5"

This Buds for you :flipoff2:

AllPro gets my vote..... Strong, strong and then they'r strong too..:D

Originally posted by Leonel


That will be me,he's right the holes did'nt line up at all and i also don't like the fact that it only attaches to the front case leaving the rear one to move all over the place ,other than that it is pretty burly i don't think the bud puts a mount on both cases i made mine or had it made just took the old member to a shop and had them bend a 12"x 3/8" plate and punch the holes for 2 mounts

I went with BudBuilt. I prepaid for mine but I am waiting on finishing the Supra Swap to get it. The design is simple and strong. It is smooth, so you can drag it across rocks.

Plus, Bud is the friendliest guy out there and I am glad to send my money his way.

Originally posted by toy 4 rox
i don't think the bud puts a mount on both cases i made mine or had it made just took the old member to a shop and had them bend a 12"x 3/8" plate and punch the holes for 2 mounts

Yes,bud's mounts to both cases!!!

Originally posted by Kula
single plate of three-eighths stock with no gusseting on a 4000lb. truck...sounds like more movement then I had this morning.

Sorry to hear Kula... :)

But I would like to discuss this point. The bottom of the crossmember has a 3/16" skidplate bolted onto it too. That makes it effectively 9/16 thick across the flat 16" span. Then the other portions are angled up, directing the force of any impact onto the frame rails. Consider them as you would diagonal bracing. If it was only 3/8 flat across between the frame rails, then I would agree with you.

If you assume that the entire weight of the truck lands only on the skidplate, the force will travel thru these braces to the bolts and then to the frame rails. So the forces in those skimpy 3/8 steel members is in compression only. I'm a bit rusty on my column loading math but if you loaded a 3/8 x 4" column with even 4000#, it wouldn't move.

If you assume the bottom was to flex ( more likely) then if you run the beam deflection numbers for a 3/8" x 14" bottom, that doesn't move much either. Then add the 3/16 skidplate to it, and well, you get the point...

But! If you intend to drop your 4000# truck out of aircraft or off cliffs so you land only on the crossmember, PLEASE get one from someone else!!! I really don't want to meet your widow in court! :) Or meet you with a transmission stuck in your behind! :)

PS I appreciate not bashing anyone elses design. There are lots of ways to skin the cat and we all have our favorite. That's why none of our rigs look or are built exactly alike. It's all good, and there is plenty of room in the Toyota world for different ideas and products. And besides, we still buy stuff from the other guys too! :) Life is too short to reinvent the wheel, even if you can...

Sorry for being long winded and hope this makes some kind of sense!

Sorry to have upset you,didn't mean to down your product.Your math might translate with a direct hit from the bottem however you know as well as I that isn't always the case.A side load on your weakest runner (3/8) with the force of a truck dropping a couple of feet would surely move.I have launched and landed directly on my skid plate on obsticles such as skyscraper in South Dakota and my All pro plate did not move.Others with straight plate cross members were not so lucky.Gusseting your side legs would increase your compression stregth ten fold.I always believe in overkill especially when your talking about items that are susceptable to repetitive hits.I use my truck and have wheel'd in farmington,Las cruses,South Dakota,Moab,Hammers,ect...Again your product looks and probably functions Quite well.My truck is most likely a little heavyer then most and I don't always baby it when the rocks get big,so beef is where it's at for me

Lateronski, Kula

Not upset at all! Just talking engineering and theoretical! Like I said, lots of ways to skin a cat! :)

Just a quick note on engineering and structures.Why do they make roll bars, frames,driveshafts,ect. out of tubeing?(box or round)It's the structure that creates the stregth.If you put a piece of 3/8ths flat stock in a vice and hit it with a hammer, It's going to bend. Weld on a section of tubeing or u channel and it won't move.

Just got off the phone with Bud, and seding him the check in the morning!
Thanks!

I just ordered mine from Bud for my 83 dual. He is closer and looks as it is real beefy. My vote is for Bud but not taking anything from All Pro who makes quality stuff. :D

I put on a BB from Marlin this weekend,bolted right up,sweet design!!!Have to paint the skidplate and throw(yeah right:D)it on today.The one thing Marlin said was there wasn't a whole lot of threads left on the original bolts after going through the plate,but no biggeeto me.
Corey.

Originally posted by GETMRUTN
I just ordered mine from Bud for my 83 dual. He is closer and looks as it is real beefy. My vote is for Bud but not taking anything from All Pro who makes quality stuff. :D

where at in northern virginia are you at? if bud brings mine down soon maybe he can bring me yours and we could meet. save you some shipping.

dave

i've landed hard on my budbuilt xmember many times.
the 3/8" flat stock held up fine. MUCH stronger
and more rigid than the stock one. Good product, fair price, nice guy, I'd go budbuilt again no question. i'm waiting for him to come out with a
exhaust manifold oven/heatshield (hint).

Picked up a Bud Built and Marlin new improved gear set yesterday. And the Bud Built is badass. :eek: Truthfully there is no comparison, go Bud built. Its beefy,engineered awesome,no fit problems (like other ones), and it got a engraved logo on it:flipoff2:

Originally posted by marco
I like the AP crossmember. It's held up fine to my driveshaft vibes quite well :D I will agree w/ the above posts. My holes didn't line up either. I used a die grinder. Nevertheless, great product.

For what it's worth... Budbuilt's product looks good in the pictures.
Me too :D For $300 I think they could get the holes punched out right, but not a huge thing to fix. It super beefy and should take plenty of abuse.

why pay 300 for something that doesnt fit ,when you could pay 240 for something that does:confused: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by CRAWLTOY
why pay 300 for something that doesnt fit ,when you could pay 240 for something that does:confused: :rolleyes:
I wouldn't have but it wasn't listed on the site :D I personally like the AP better, JMO though

everyones is welcome to have their own opinion:flipoff2:

Originally posted by davefj40


where at in northern virginia are you at? if bud brings mine down soon maybe he can bring me yours and we could meet. save you some shipping.

dave

I am in the springfield area of VA.

My BudBuilt crossmember and skid plate arrived yesterday. Not only is it beefy (especially the cross member), but the workmanship is exellent!!! The way they have all the bolts counter sunk so the bottom does not have anything to snag on is fantastic!! I really like AllPro's stuff and agree we should support them for supporting this board, but for crossmember's and skid plate's i think BudBuilt has nailed it! :beer: :beer:

Originally posted by marco
SNIP....My holes didn't line up either. I used a die grinder. Nevertheless, great product...SNIP

I just installed the AP this weekend (Thanks for the quick service Terry) and all the holes lined up perfectly. Looks great! Looking forward to bashing the thing at the Hammers!

Originally posted by Kula
Just a quick note on engineering and structures.Why do they make roll bars, frames,driveshafts,ect. out of tubeing?(box or round)It's the structure that creates the stregth.If you put a piece of 3/8ths flat stock in a vice and hit it with a hammer, It's going to bend. Weld on a section of tubeing or u channel and it won't move.

What you are talking about with a component made of tubing is called increasing its moment of inertia, or radius of gyration, in engineering terms (one is used for beams, one for columns). This is great for evenly loaded structural members. That's why tube frames may be 2" in diameter, but only .120 wall thickness. Now image that you take a ball peen hammer and hit a 2" diameter pipe that has a .120 wall thickness. You are going to dent it, right? Now do the same thing to a piece of 3/8" plate. The plate laughs at you. So the thinner walls of a piece of tubing may not be what you want to be hitting with pointy rocks.

Now if you put a piece of 3/8 plate in a vice, and hit it with a sledgehammer, it will bend. But in that case you have what is called a cantilevered beam, with only one end supported. Bub's design is not cantilevered, and the bend geometry itself gives it additional strength (much like an arch is can carry more load than a flat beam, since it transmits the load to the mounts more efficiently). Now, overall, some other designs will probably be stronger than Bud's, just like a crossmember made of 4x4x.25 tubing would be stronger than all the other's on the market. But how strong do you need to go? I like Bud's design, because it seems plenty beefy enough, and gives an increase in ground clearance. One day I hope to be able to afford one.

got my double case crossmember on saturday from bud, then we went wheeling at paragon all day. the crossmember is plenty thick and strong, i don't see how i would hurt this thing. if i do, then i think i'm gonna have alot of problems with the rest of the truck.

dave

got my budbuilt installed this weekend, beefy!!!! thing was a heavy biotch to put on by myself though :D

i haven't seen either cmember and i can't say
good or bad one way or another.
but if you want beef check this out.
works rather well.

I don't have a BB crossmember YET, but I've wheeled with him a few times and have a couple things to add -

1. Bud has an engineering degree and last I knew did it for a living.
2. If we support his business he'll FINALLY :D come out with replacement frames and other goodies he's been talking about.

Is the 'Tin Bender' a 4x club? And if so, are they in bed with All Pro?
I don't mean to be rude, but the ONLY posts by them, camo/fatkid/Tin Bender, were very very pro All Pro without any objective reasons for their comments. Well, camo had a reason, but the other two were just passing some air of an unknown temperature:

camo
ran my allpro x member over the countrys hardest trails and it performed flawlessly. not to mention they are a sponsor of this site so support them

fatkid
Is there anything wrong with the All-pro design?

Tin Bender
AllPro gets my vote..... Strong, strong and then they'r strong too..

Now don't get me wrong here, we have a All Pro x-member in stock and some Bud Builts in stock, so we are not biased one way or the other.
Also, I know that you all have the right to bullshi$t, but since fatkid and Tin Bender had nothing to say that could help out skulltoy's decision, what's up with that??

In my opinion, both x-members are very strong, improve ground
clearance, and are made from excellent fabrication and reliability. In my personal opinion, I say if they both meet what you want, go with the cheaper one and go buy some tequilas!!

Regards,
BigMike

Originally posted by Kula
Just a quick note on engineering and structures.Why do they make roll bars, frames,driveshafts,ect. out of tubeing?(box or round)It's the structure that creates the stregth.If you put a piece of 3/8ths flat stock in a vice and hit it with a hammer, It's going to bend. Weld on a section of tubeing or u channel and it won't move. I wanna see you bend a 3/8 flat stock with a hammer hard enough to bend it and then show me the piece of tube that wont bend under that same blow. Tubing in and of itself is pretty weak; its the structure created from the tubing that achieves strength from the load being spread on various members.

Bud's design appears to me to be incredibly stout. Any tendency to flex will require substantial flex of the ladder frame - if you do hit something that hard, like bud said yer gonna have the transfer case up yer butt, and a flexing crossmember will be the least of your worries.

Well i just helped flimmy from the bbs install his budbuilt crossmember for his dualcase set-up, and i have to say it is a great investment. It bolted in no problem, and was made to his specs.

big mike

Tin benders is a 4x4 club that wheels at the hammers often. we have many club members that can and do wheel the most extreem trails and lines in the country. probally the reason myself and the others has such high praise for all-pro is due to the fact they usually ship out their product overnight and the products stand up to the most punishment we can dish out. all-pro products have stood up to all the misuse and abuse we can dish out. whats not to like?

Originally posted by CRAWLING82

Hey, camo why dont you have budb sponsor this board too i'm sure he would be down one crossmember per mounth or something.

i have discussed it with him and it my be an option in the future

my buddy ran the box at the con on memoreal day weekend and he landed hard on his cross member and it reflected about one inch or so but did not bent (staybent) because it takes about 30,000 lbs. to permently bend the steel given the distance between the frame rails. to hit the yeild of AR36 mild steel = the bending piont, would take about 20k lbs and that is with the lower press brake dies at 25" apart. my buddy runs one of the cross mebers that i have been building for the last two years+ ( the one that steve h ended up with) and it is very simular to the bud built xmeber. mine is 3/8x6 mild steel with a 2.5x2.5 angle that welds into place on the frame. so for the convinence i would go with bud built $240. if you want to have the maximum ground clearance i would go with FROf and they avertized $299 on the web pagew/skidplate. but if you are a cheap ass and don't mind welding some angle iron to your frame and drilling some holes i would go with the one that i make $60. and i like the stregth that the allpro xmember has and that the belly portection that it has$295. the only thing is i dont think the tubing is the shit, but that is my opinion. the way it is layed out is what makes it strong.

Might as well make it a two post day! This newbie has a Budbuilt and its awesome! Like everyone else has mentioned, very nice guy to deal with too. He went out of his way to get the x-member to me in time for a wheeling trip.. Can't beat that!

Originally posted by e cliff
my buddy runs one of the cross mebers that i have been building for the last two years+ ( the one that steve h ended up with) and it is very simular to the bud built xmeber.

I gave the one Cliff made to Flashlightman, it was total beef!

I'm running a FRORF one and skidplate.

Bottom line, no mater which one you decide on, they are all very good

I have had both. They both work good. Budbuilt lets you take your skid plate off with out removing the drive shaft......Allpro's I had to take the front shaft off to get the skid plate off......I also have the bud built with a 2 inch rise...Not to sure if All pro offers a different rise. Either way they both do work well.......

BudBuilt....No Question

Best service and best built:

AllPro, FROFAB, BB, there are all great...just comes down to what you want, like tires;)

Here's a pic:

Budbuilt!

BudBuilt or FROR

Originally posted by camo
probally the reason myself and the others has such high praise for all-pro is due to the fact ...snip... the products stand up to the most punishment we can dish out. all-pro products have stood up to all the misuse and abuse we can dish out. whats not to like?

Thanks man, I was just courious what you guy's opinion was :)

Cya,
BigMike

Whats to keep the BudBilt from bending up when smashed on a rock? Looks like it would just bend up... also looks like its about $25 worth of material and easy to replicate at home....

Originally posted by RocKrawler
$25 worth of material and easy to replicate at home....

I'd like to see you counter sink bolt holes, and precission bend 3/16's steel like the budbuilt.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion which is better, but you can't knock the work involved in making a quality product.

Whats to keep the BudBilt from bending up when smashed on a rock? Looks like it would just bend up... also looks like its about $25 worth of material and easy to replicate at home....

LASER cut Dual transfer case crossmember.
These are formed of 3/8" thick steel, and offer almost 2.5" more ground clearance than stock. No additional cost for drivetrain lift. Skidplate is formed of 3/16" steel and bolts on with flathead metric screws ( included) for a smooth, snag free bottom.
It has the same benefits as the older fabricated version, but has the following improvements: Bolts on with all 8 of the stock mounting bolts instead of using ubolts. Made of hot rolled, pickled and oiled steel for a better finish. Is fully one piece, with smooth laser cuts and no stress risers in the corners. Fits around all the IFS brackets and mounts with no trimming. Has slotted holes to allow for better frame fit. Available with drivetrain lift built in, at no extra cost! Uses both stock transfer case rubber mounts for better torque absorption and dampening.

Not to sound like a salesperson for Bud, but I'd like to see a bent up BudBuilt where the frame of the rig was not broken as well. 3/8" thick steel bolted to the frame in the 8 stock bolt locations is way stronger than the stock formed and spotwelded crossmember.
Maybe if you jumped your rig and landed on a huge boulder you might have enough force to do it but under even extreme rock crawling I doubt you'd bend up the crossmember. Sure the skidplate might bend or be damaged but not the crossmember.
If anyone has pictures of a bent or broken Budbuilt, I'd sure like to see them and find out what the :evil: you were doing to bend it.

Did'nt mean to stir up shiat, but with everyone on this board promoting junkyard parts and building more obscure parts than McGyever at home with vise grips and a bic lighter, it seems like an easy copy. If most readers build complete solid axle swaps at home, why not an easy crossmember?

Originally posted by RocKrawler
Did'nt mean to stir up shiat, but with everyone on this board promoting junkyard parts and building more obscure parts than McGyever at home with vise grips and a bic lighter, it seems like an easy copy. If most readers build complete solid axle swaps at home, why not an easy crossmember?

lots do, but i would love to see you just "wip"out one like Bud builds, you have the brake and ability to bend 3/8" stuff and be that precision about it?...I highly dought it. If it's so easy, you make one and send it to me....I'll let ya know if it fits.....:vader2: :vader2: :vader2:

Originally posted by Blucruz
no trimming.

Now I wouldn't say that.. We had to trim our BudBuilt to clear Marlin's transmission........ :eek: .............But that's because Marlin has 3 friggen transfercases!! :laughing:


Uses both stock transfer case rubber mounts for better torque absorption and dampening.

That's what I like about it!

CYA,
BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGMIKE

Dont need to, I run the All Pro and it fit perfectly. Never had a problem with it.

Here's my one vote for Bud's unit. Just based on how damn nice he is:D

Originally posted by RocKrawler
Dont need to, I run the All Pro and it fit perfectly. Never had a problem with it.

don't???? you can't...you are talking out your ass again and it's rude and stinks.:flipoff2: I don't think you "get it"

Originally posted by SeaBass44


don't???? you can't...you are talking out your ass again and it's rude and stinks.:flipoff2: I don't think you "get it"

Whats rude? I have a different product and an opinion?
Why am I talking out of my ass... because I dont agree with SeaASS? Bummer.
What dont I get? Why I have to like what you do? Sorry Ass Munch - I dont have to!:flipoff2:

I made a simple observation and based on 80% of the people on this board wanting to fabricate way more complicated s#!t than this, wondered why someone wouldnt try and do something that looked relatively simple. You have to spout and start insults... blow me. :flipoff:

3/8" plate.... It may be strong enuff, but I don't want a MAY BE...:(

There is NO doubt thst the All-Pro Cross member IS STRONGER, and no one can argue that point..:confused:


Some one said that i was $25 in materials... Not quite but it's not far off... I sub. out alot of lazer cut'n, and to have the plate cut for that would run about $30.00, add in some hardware, and the raw stock you MIGHT be in $50.00...

If nothing else, I do admire Bud for coming up with a product that is so easy to MFG, that would give such a big profit...
:vader: :beer:

Funny though, it appears that All-Pro is bundling their crossmember and a dual kit for sale this month. My guess is they are having trouble pushing the dual crossmember. People must be opting for Bud's design.

However, the price looks good at $599 for both.

I am not sure the All-Pro is that much stronger. How thick is the tubing that they are using?

It certianly looks like there is less metal supporting the T-case than Bud's. Bud's design is clean and simple (KISS).

http://www.allprooffroad.com/pics/8064.jpg

Thats funning marlin is now saleing a combo to, double bearing adapter and budbuilt for $629

My vote is for bud very clean :smokin: :smokin:

Originally posted by Tin Bender
There is NO doubt thst the All-Pro Cross member IS STRONGER, and no one can argue that point


I am going to argue.

Off the record from my affiliation with Marlin Crawler, In My Opinion, How can it be stronger when it has many welds, only uses one mount (front case) which would allow for more drivetrain movements, and is not a solid one piece design.

The Budbuilt is a one piece design, thick and sturdy, and uses two transfercase mounts.

Now I'm not saying that Bud's is stronger, I am just saying that there is no way IMHO that "There is NO doubt thst the All-Pro Cross member IS STRONGER". uh uhh no way

I would imagine that the frame would have to expand in order for the budbuilt to collapse up into the sub frame area, while the AP xmember would dent and fold upwards before the frame would get tweaked.

my 2 cents,
BigMike

I cannot say enough about Bud. I called him a few weeks ago and ordered his dual transfer case crossmember with a 2" drivetrain lift on it. I got it through UPS and this sucker is BEEFY!
I ordered it for a dual setup even though I only have a single transfer case at this point and it bolted up just fine. I did have a little trouble lining things up at first but was successful with the use of a bottle jack and a little persuation to shift the T-case.
The thing is smooth under there and I can't wait to test her out!
Thanks Bud!

What do you run if your rig "Big Mike"?

Originally posted by fatkid
What do you run if your rig "Big Mike"?

Well after I plow over a 4x4 rig at 18psi boost, in 6th gear doing 168 MPH, like it was a plastic tinfoil ant farm, I hit my four wheel vented crossdrilled and slotted kevlar brakes and do a mad 180-degree spin out and stuff it in 3rd gear doing 20 MPH where I dump my 4-pluck kevlar race clutch spinning my 235mm's at 89 MPH where my 285hp engine releases hell into my 2k-lb mid-engined Toyota which dissapears undeaneath a huge cloud of smoke from my yokahamas that rapidly heat up and grab the tarmac pulling my bones at 1.3 G to 60MPH in 4.8 seconds where I run back over the 4x4 and return home. :D

Then I get out and check on my mikebuilt supercharger guard which yields off those pesky rocks from the inside right of the corkscrew from laguna secca and I notice that it got scratched. :emb4:






If your referring to my opinion, it is just from real life customers testimonials (hehe) and from my eye balls. No, I have never used either or. I have driven Marlin's truck which uses a BudBuilt, but I've never dropped it out a kitchen window onto a pointed boulder on the xmember-

From my 2 cent opinions,
BigMike

NO MINES BETTER, NO MINES BETTER, well daddy is richer than your daddy, well my daddy could beat up your daddy...............

I didnt see anyone post about a broken crossmember of any make. Sounds to me like any plate is going to do better than stock without any worries about breakage. Everthing else is a matter of taste or clearance.

Are my feet getting warm?

I could be way off base here, but.........

What if you do manage to bend either x-member.......

Seems like yould have to do some serious bending, cutting and welding to patch up the All-pro.......

Seems like if you bent the Budbuilt, you could just do some press work to get it back into shape.......Granted, tweaking it like that may make it a little weaker for next time, but at least yould be able to slap it back on and reuse it.........

I'm not knocking or rooting for either design, just thought I'd throw that out, since no one mentioned what you would be able to do with either one AFTER you managed to bend EITHER one.......

:D

Oh yeah.....As to:

If nothing else, I do admire Bud for coming up with a product that is so easy to MFG, that would give such a big profit...

I wouldnt be so sure about "big profit" :rolleyes:
Obviously, he IS going to make a certain profit.....He is trying to start Budbuilt as a BUSINESS......HELLO! As in "make a living".....

I've had discussions with Bud about what it costs him in materials, labor, and farming out the laser cutting, not to mention the shipping costs to other distributors........
Personally, I think he charges VERY fair prices for his product, customer service, AND the fact that he can custom build one to YOUR specifications.......

Ok, so I may be biased toward Bud, since I know him, but thats not to say that I think All-Pro doesnt have some nice looking items and designs, and that All-Pro is "evil".......
I just think Bud's xmember seems like a cleaner, simpler design.

And anyways, back to the discussion:
Has ANYBODY managed to bend/destroy EITHER crossmember?
:question:

neither actually....... if it ain't 'bender built or moto-masters built,
it ain't worth buying. :usa:

Originally posted by BigMike


Well after I plow over a 4x4 rig at 18psi boost, in 6th gear doing 168 MPH, like it was a plastic tinfoil ant farm, I hit my four wheel vented crossdrilled and slotted kevlar brakes and do a mad 180-degree spin out and stuff it in 3rd gear doing 20 MPH where I dump my 4-pluck kevlar race clutch spinning my 235mm's at 89 MPH where my 285hp engine releases hell into my 2k-lb mid-engined Toyota which dissapears undeaneath a huge cloud of smoke from my yokahamas that rapidly heat up and grab the tarmac pulling my bones at 1.3 G to 60MPH in 4.8 seconds where I run back over the 4x4 and return home. :D

Then I get out and check on my mikebuilt supercharger guard which yields off those pesky rocks from the inside right of the corkscrew from laguna secca and I notice that it got scratched. :emb4:






If your referring to my opinion, it is just from real life customers testimonials (hehe) and from my eye balls. No, I have never used either or. I have driven Marlin's truck which uses a BudBuilt, but I've never dropped it out a kitchen window onto a pointed boulder on the xmember-

From my 2 cent opinions,
BigMike


So with all that said you don't even have a rig, but you have driven Marlins. O I see...:)

LOL....... It's kinda like "how to raise kids" advise from someone who doesn't have kids, but knows people who do.....ROTFLMFAO..


Zooooommmm.. Zoooommmm.... Zooommmmm Riceboy...LOL

One of these days I will get one :D

I think I will go with a bobbed long bed 79-83..

Or maybe I will get a Nissan Hardbody!! :rainbow: I hear they rock at off road! :rainbow: :rainbow:

-BigMike :D

Originally posted by Tin Bender
Zooooommmm.. Zoooommmm.... Zooommmmm Riceboy...LOL

Don't ever put me in that boat man - You wouldn't call a Z06 C5 Corvette Owner a Hamburger-boy now would you?

:eek:


My foot is far from my mouth! Riceboys don't push 12s in the 1/4mile :cool: :cool:

BiGMike :rasta:

Is this 4x4.com or 1/4 mile.com?? :D

So who's x-member do you use in your MR2??....lol


BOTH are awsome products and BOTH have there market, that is plain to see:beer:

:smokin:

Oh yeah, buy both xmembers and bolt one on top of the other :flipoff2:

Then your set with the best! :beer:

My truck is full of All Pro parts. I used to have a dual case All Pro crossmember. I had the same problems with the holes not lining up, so I made new ones. A PITA IMHO. Also, any time I had to remove the crossmember I had to remove the front driveshaft. And, when in 209:1 because there is only one t case mount , the whole engine flexed like mad. I tore up a t case mount as well. Wish there were two mounts to the AP x member.

Then, I decided that I wanted a 2" drivetrain lift. So, I bought Roger B's kit and lifted everything up 2 inches to match my body lift. Guess what? I had to rework the hoop on the All Pro crossmember cause now my driveshaft was hitting it when the passenger side compressed. Another PITA IMHO. And, on top of it, I gained a 2" drivetrain lift, but still had the same damn ground clearance under the crossmeber, kinda makes the drivetrain lift pointless huh?

In steps Budbuilt. Everything that I didnt like about the All Pro crossmember was solved with his 2" lift dual case crossmember. I only wish his product was out when I first was looking for a crossmember. It would have saved me the price of the AP x member and the fawkin shipping from Cali to CT.

My vote is for Budbuilt. No question about it.http://www.yankeetoys.org/black900rr/budbuilt/skidplate/MVC-848S.JPG

Originally posted by BigMike


My foot is far from my mouth! Riceboys don't push 12s in the 1/4mile :cool: :cool:

BiGMike :rasta:

Slow riceboys do.. my buddy would love to race you in his sub-10 second Civic, he'll even toss a AP x-member in the pass side floorboard to make it fair :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Foxfab
the whole engine flexed like mad. I tore up a t case mount as well. t.http://www.yankeetoys.org/black900rr/budbuilt/skidplate/MVC-848S.JPG

What do you run for motor mounts? Stock?