DOT rampage

[Towner]

found this on TDR and thought I'd share

http://www.dragracingonline.com/deadon/vii_7-1.html

[Drunk Monkey]

Got a ticket about 2 weeks ago. I was hauling 3 rigs and was for recreational use only no winnings( he did ask tricky questions). In Texas, as explained to me, even for recreational use, If the truck and trailer have the capacity to tow over 26,001 lbs you need a class A CDL. no logs or anything but you do need the CDL.... I called insurance and they said no extra insurance is needed w/ them.. I just think it is a complete hassel. the load is about 19,000 lbs not even close..

[CJHeap]

Of course they will not stop a Mexican in a shitbox hauling 50,000 though:shaking:

Carefully consider getting a CDL though. If it is not needed, don't get it since with a CDL you can not take Defensive driving or get deferred adjudication for any infraction. You can also loose your licence.


Got a ticket about 2 weeks ago. I was hauling 3 rigs and was for recreational use only no winnings( he did ask tricky questions). In Texas, as explained to me, even for recreational use, If the truck and trailer have the capacity to tow over 26,001 lbs you need a class A CDL. no logs or anything but you do need the CDL.... I called insurance and they said no extra insurance is needed w/ them.. I just think it is a complete hassel. the load is about 19,000 lbs not even close..

[DMG]

They are just after more fucking revenue to feed their beuracracy

[Schmozilla]

We once got stopped on the way to Tellico on the way up through GA, by a transport cop... He said that we needed a "TRUCK" tag to haul more than 3500 lbs or some BS...I guess the truck tags cost more money than the regular ones...

[rokcrwlrtj]

that guy is a dumbass, I have NEVER seen a GA truck tag on anything other than comercial vehicles and I have lived there for 13 years. If it does exsist then i bet it is rearely enforced and you got a dick cop. I do know you have to have trailer brakes for anyload over 3k though.

[Joker2669]

Pretty ridiculous..

[n9emz]

We most likely have FEMA to thank for this fiasco. All kinds of reports are coming in regarding the recent actions of the Arizona Corporate Commission, the OH PUCO, CO now requiring GTM stickers....local DOTs have apparently gone into feeding frenzy mode since FEMA lifted waivers on the travel trailers this past November. The situation will most likely get worse and never any better.

[TOAdisco311]

This part confuses me

"What is a commercial vehicle? Any self-propelled or towed vehicle used on a highway in intrastate and interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle:
- has a gross vehicle weight rating, gross combined weight rating. Gross weight or gross combined weight greater than 10,000 pounds; or
- is designed to transport more than eight passengers for compensation; or
- is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
- is used to transport hazardous materials in quantities requiring placards."

I recently understood this as you will need a Class A if you are pulling a trailer rated to carry over 10,000lbs.(commercially)

Is this right? What about for recreation? I am assuming that this varies state by state, but I recently had a friend pulled over pulling a horse trailer and the cop said the same thing about the 10,000 trailer and Class A liscense. I always heard(here and other places) that as long as you were under 26,001 you were fine.

[saf-t scissors]

that guy is a dumbass, I have NEVER seen a GA truck tag on anything other than comercial vehicles and I have lived there for 13 years. If it does exsist then i bet it is rearely enforced and you got a dick cop. I do know you have to have trailer brakes for anyload over 3k though.


:shaking:

http://www.dmvs.ga.gov/motor/registration/ratechart2003.asp

[saf-t scissors]

Is this right? What about for recreation? I am assuming that this varies state by state, but I recently had a friend pulled over pulling a horse trailer and the cop said the same thing about the 10,000 trailer and Class A liscense. I always heard(here and other places) that as long as you were under 26,001 you were fine.

Look at the back of your driver's license. With a Class C license (normal, non-commercial), you can drive a single vehicle with a GVW up to 26000#. You can tow a trailer up to 10,000#. That's it. If the truck weighs 10k and the trailer weighs 14k, you can't drive it. GCVW doesn't figure in.

North Carolina has non-commercial class A and class B licenses if you need the weight to tow your camper or drive a big motorhome. But if you're towing your rig to a competition where you race for prizes and advertise sponsors, etc, it's commercial, and you need the CDL, med card, log book, etc in addition to the weight endorsements for your load.

[TOAdisco311]

Allright, I think I got it straight. Thanks.

[guardrail]

So if i'm towing 2 cars, 7200lbs together on a 3000lb trailer in my 8000 pound truck, that's 18,200lbs total, that requires a Class A? This isn't for profit or anything, just moving the cars from one place to another. In FL BTW heading to TX.

[KrebsATM02]

Got a ticket about 2 weeks ago. I was hauling 3 rigs and was for recreational use only no winnings( he did ask tricky questions). In Texas, as explained to me, even for recreational use, If the truck and trailer have the capacity to tow over 26,001 lbs you need a class A CDL. no logs or anything but you do need the CDL.... I called insurance and they said no extra insurance is needed w/ them.. I just think it is a complete hassel. the load is about 19,000 lbs not even close..

You don't need a CDL, but you do need a Class A license. You only need a CDL if you are hauling to make money. If you are towing for yourself over 26000 you need a Class A though.

Remember, with a CDL your BAC drops down, as well as other restrictions.

[VerticalTRX]

So whats this whole class A,B,C deal without a CDL? I thought those were CDL only classifications? Although, I also assume all this varries with state, therefore making for a lot of confusing information in this entire thread.

Here in VA, if its for agricultrual use, no CDL is needed regardless of weight. Not sure about non-comercial recreational towing though. I've been through a check point with about 19,500lbs in tow behind my F-250 and the VA state police didn't say a thing, although I was hauling a tractor, so therefore it was for our farm. Not sure how that would have gone over if I had two trail rigs on there.

[braindead]

This part confuses me

"What is a commercial vehicle? Any self-propelled or towed vehicle used on a highway in intrastate and interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle:
- has a gross vehicle weight rating, gross combined weight rating. Gross weight or gross combined weight greater than 10,000 pounds; or
- is designed to transport more than eight passengers for compensation; or
- is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
- is used to transport hazardous materials in quantities requiring placards."

I recently understood this as you will need a Class A if you are pulling a trailer rated to carry over 10,000lbs.(commercially)

Is this right? What about for recreation? I am assuming that this varies state by state, but I recently had a friend pulled over pulling a horse trailer and the cop said the same thing about the 10,000 trailer and Class A liscense. I always heard(here and other places) that as long as you were under 26,001 you were fine.
Gross weight or gross combined weight greater than 10,000 pounds, if you have an 8,000 truck and a 3,000 lbs trailer, according to the DOT you need a CDL. That one sentence "GROSS WEIGHT OR GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT GREATER THEN 10,000. will let the DOT kick your ass all over the country, legally. Thats what i get when i read it, but unless someone on this board works for DOT and wants to actually admit it, i don't know who's right or wrong. I just hope for everyones sake, including mine, i'm not.

[Go2Guy]

I'm thinking actual rv's get a bit more slack, tried going to my state regs- my head still hurts.

The day will probably come when I need a log etc- in the mean time, I just keep going trail riding and camping with friends:)

[nxcj]

I know every state is different, but I found a decent .pdf on the Iowa DOT site.

http://www.iamvd.com/omve/index.htm

Click on the Iowa Truck Information Guide. There are some decent flow charts and graphic examples in it.

The weights being discusses here are the same ratings as in Iowa.

I have a Class B CDL. This allows me to drive a straight truck at 26,001# and up. It still only allows me to pull a 10,000# trailer. If the trailer is 10,001#, I need a Class A CDL. The difference between A and B is simply that you are qualified to "handle" the additional trailer weight.

The only qualifiers here are for farm vehicles. I read it to say that if I pull a GN with two rigs behind my Dodge, I need a class A.

Yep, that sucks...

[Go2Guy]

I know every state is different, but I found a decent .pdf on the Iowa DOT site.

http://www.iamvd.com/omve/index.htm

Click on the Iowa Truck Information Guide. There are some decent flow charts and graphic examples in it.

The weights being discusses here are the same ratings as in Iowa.

I have a Class B CDL. This allows me to drive a straight truck at 26,001# and up. It still only allows me to pull a 10,000# trailer. If the trailer is 10,001#, I need a Class A CDL. The difference between A and B is simply that you are qualified to "handle" the additional trailer weight.

The only qualifiers here are for farm vehicles. I read it to say that if I pull a GN with two rigs behind my Dodge, I need a class A.

Yep, that sucks...

so when "they" say 10 k, is that actual or rated? I run 8500ish, but like the margin of 6k axles and E rated 16" tires etc- make sense?

[nxcj]

I believe they're talking about the "rated" capacity.

I read the manual again and I think what I stated above may be wrong. It appears that if the GVWR of the truck and the GVWR of the trailer total less than 26K, there is no CDL required. Therefor, if I run a 12k trailer behind my 3/4 ton, I'm fine (even with a regular class C).

My class B still stops short at trailers over 10k "IF" I'm pulling it with a vehicle with a 26k+ rating.

Clear as mud!! :D

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Now I at least understand why, if you buy a new enclosed trailer, you can often "option" it to have a GVWR of 9900lb, even if it's the exact same trailer that sells for the exact same price, at a GVWR of 14k or higher. :rolleyes:

Question is, is it worse to have an "overloaded" trailer that's not "rated" for the load it's carrying, or not have the appropriate license for what you're pulling?

[Jrod-13]

I believe they're talking about the "rated" capacity.

I read the manual again and I think what I stated above may be wrong. It appears that if the GVWR of the truck and the GVWR of the trailer total less than 26K, there is no CDL required. Therefor, if I run a 12k trailer behind my 3/4 ton, I'm fine (even with a regular class C).

My class B still stops short at trailers over 10k "IF" I'm pulling it with a vehicle with a 26k+ rating.

Clear as mud!! :D


yep, goofy how those laws work.. It too have a CLass B CDL tank/hazmat/pass.

Its funny how I can "legaly" hook our triaxle pintle hitch(about 4000lbs) with our D-4(around 12000lbs) behind my F-350, and be perfectly legal, yet pretty damn unsafe..

yet, it would be perfectly safe behind one of our fuel trucks(24-42K GVWR), however it's illegal for me to do it... hell, even our 10,400lb car hauler would be illegal for me to pull..

but yet.. heres the kicker..
One of our fuel trucks pulling, the above mentioned 10,400lb car hauler DOESN'T qualify for me to road test with for a class A, but yet I NEED a class A to drive it..

[crashnzuk]

but yet.. heres the kicker..
One of our fuel trucks pulling, the above mentioned 10,400lb car hauler DOESN'T qualify for me to road test with for a class A, but yet I NEED a class A to drive it..
If it requires a class A to drive, you can use it for the test. They may not like it, but tell them this is the vehicle you need the license for. I think some of the testers get hung up on the tractor trailer thing.
Travis..

[Go2Guy]

Oh yea- back of my drivers license says nothing about the weights etc. I'll hit the scales next time I 'm loaded, going to be close, I bet 27000 or so but the toter's specced at 33k with no specified limit on the trailer.

[CJHeap]

Not true since some states require you to test in the most complex configuration such as " air brakes" for a class A

If it requires a class A to drive, you can use it for the test. They may not like it, but tell them this is the vehicle you need the license for. I think some of the testers get hung up on the tractor trailer thing.
Travis..

[crashnzuk]

You may be right on the airbrake thing, but I was assuming their fuel truck would have them. We have guys take tests at work with short 2 axle dumps and equipment trailers. The trucks and trailers are well over 26K and 10K GVWs though.
Travis..

[Gen. Nonsense]

AZ revised statutes
1. Class A. A class A license is valid for operating either of the following:

(a) A motor vehicle that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than ten thousand pounds if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is twenty-six thousand one or more pounds.

(b) A vehicle that requires a class B, C or D license.

3. Class C. A class C license is valid for operating any of the following:

(a) A single motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less.

(b) A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand pounds or less.

(c) A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than ten thousand pounds, if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.

[hybrid-theory]

i'm in the process of getting my class A right now,i talked this over with the gentleman that owns the school i'm going to, he said most rules that apply to CDL are federal laws. states do have their own rules for certain requirements but most are federally regulated.... and i am also looking to get a HDT. to pull my trailer. i just need to findout what Vermonts laws for this are. i have gone down to the DMV and they didn't no shit, i talked to a DOT officer, he wasn't even sure what i would have to do to convert it to a rv. i did get some phone #' of some companies that convert HDT's to rv" (Travel Supreme-1-800-0563) and (Show Hauler-574-825-6764) i haven't called them yet but i will let find out next week. but here in this state the laws are the same, class A for anything over gvwr of 26,001lb and a trailer over 10,000lb. and if your gcwr is over 26,001 truck and trailer, you need a class A cdl. the dot officer did tell me that.

[Jrod-13]

If it requires a class A to drive, you can use it for the test. They may not like it, but tell them this is the vehicle you need the license for. I think some of the testers get hung up on the tractor trailer thing.
Travis..
your right, to an extent, however in MN anyways, the trailer must have a deck length of over 27 feet to qualify for the road test... But then again, they have their heads so far up their asses a the DMV, who knows what to believe really.. it took me 4 trips to the DMV to finaly be able to road test.
The one time they actualy said that "even though you need to be 21 to get a hazmat(i was 18 at the time), you can still take the test, and then we will allow you use a fuel truck for the road test, as long as you cover up the placards" :shaking: :shaking: :shaking:
I finaly got so fed up with their BS that I borrowed a tractor from the dealer, and road tested with that(they didn't have any trailers or else I woulda went for a A)

Funny thing was, when I got my license in the mail, I had a hazmat endorsement on the back, but yet I was only 18...:shaking: The desk jockey never even questioned it when I went to renew 2 years later either..

Not true since some states require you to test in the most complex configuration such as " air brakes" for a class A
Again, that is iffy. there is a extra written test for airbrakes, along with a more indepth pre-trip. However, there is no air brake endorsement. If you test with a rig running hydro brakes, air brakes shows up as a restriction, same as with a auto tranny, if you test with a slushbox, your restricted to one.

[Go2Guy]

a common thread I'm finding is that it's federal law that if you meet the requirements/specs of your home state you are free to travel the rest of them without issue. Now to confirm my home state laws:)

[Haole]

a common thread I'm finding is that it's federal law that if you meet the requirements/specs of your home state you are free to travel the rest of them without issue. Now to confirm my home state laws:)

That's true to an extent. However, that doesn't hold true to rules regarding towing doubles or triples.

[YELLER BLAZER]

Last time I got into this you really have to read the fine print. I now the scales in Missouri and New Mexico were not real happy when I pulled out the Federal regulation book (the same one that they carry) and proved to them, with there own regulation that I was exempt, 1 ton dodge and 30' GN with 2 trucks grossing 27,250#. I need to get the manual out and post that for every one to see, I'll see what I can find. Basically if you can document that you and or your passengers own what is on the trailer and your not for profit (recreational use) your exempt, irregardless of what you weigh as long as your not exceeding your GCWR, I was registered at 33,000.

This only applies if you can convince them that you are only on the road for recreational purposes. And this section of fine print is there thanks to the lobbying of the RV biz so we have to behave like we belong to the RV click, as long as we do there are no problems. A class A lisence is probably required but I've always had one so its never been an issue other than because I have a CDL they want to treat me as a commercial driver and not an RV'er.

Isn't it funny that you don't have to know anything about regulation to pass the test for a CDL? You just have to know how to safely operate the equipment.

Just found my Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulation pocketbook. I'll see if I can't find the entry # for everyone and post it.

Steve

[YELLER BLAZER]

Been looking for close to an hour, my old copy had it paper clipped and highlighted by my attorney....... I guess its time to go to the corner office and get the whole regulation manual.......

[YELLER BLAZER]

Ok I found it.

Straight from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations handbook.

"section 390.1 Subpart A - General Applicability and Definitions"

"(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this sub chapter do not apply to-"

"(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise."


There is a lot of other stuff that goes with this but this is a quote from the manual. It's pretty plain that most of us are exempt its just you have to make them read the exemptions, sometimes it pisses them off so be prepaired but they can't argue with you, and if they do they are not able to argue I'm right your wrong, its from there own manual. But it does state that you need a lisense rated to handle the weight that you are capable of carrying not what you actually weigh.

The page is now paper clipped and highlighted in my new manual.

Steve

[Albin]

Ok I found it.

Straight from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations handbook.
......


....
Steve


Where can I get one of these?

Thanks,

Al

[KWTMECH]

Well figure this one out, my dad got pulled over last week by the calif highway patrol commercial officer. My dad was driving his Izusu medium duty, (test driving it after putting on a new turbo). Officer said he didn't have the correct registration? huh? it has commercial plates and is rated at 25k. gvw. Officer said he needed to have the truck weighed and needed cal T numbers. My dad said all he had the truck for is to tow his 5th wheel trailer for traveling. So something was said about it being a flatbed and not a pickup and he needed the numbers b'cus of the bed being flat, or change the bed to a pickup bed, (yeah right:shaking: ) So get this, he can get automobile plates for the 25k truck and ONLY tow the 5th wheel. Something is seriously fubared. Were still trying to figure this one out. Same time I am in the middle of building a flat bed for my 69 GMC 1 ton, chassis rating of 14k. WTF?

[KWTMECH]

Well figure this one out, my dad got pulled over last week by the calif highway patrol commercial officer. My dad was driving his Izusu medium duty, (test driving it after putting on a new turbo). Officer said he didn't have the correct registration? huh? it has commercial plates and is rated at 25k. gvw. Officer said he needed to have the truck weighed and needed cal T numbers. My dad said all he had the truck for is to tow his 5th wheel trailer for traveling. So something was said about it being a flatbed and not a pickup and he needed the numbers b'cus of the bed being flat, or change the bed to a pickup bed, (yeah right:shaking: ) So get this, he can get automobile plates for the 25k truck and ONLY tow the 5th wheel. Something is seriously fubared. Were still trying to figure this one out. Same time I am in the middle of building a flat bed for my 69 GMC 1 ton, chassis rating of 14k. WTF?

[ibrocun]

Well figure this one out, my dad got pulled over last week by the calif highway patrol commercial officer. My dad was driving his Izusu medium duty, (test driving it after putting on a new turbo). Officer said he didn't have the correct registration? huh? it has commercial plates and is rated at 25k. gvw. Officer said he needed to have the truck weighed and needed cal T numbers. My dad said all he had the truck for is to tow his 5th wheel trailer for traveling. So something was said about it being a flatbed and not a pickup and he needed the numbers b'cus of the bed being flat, or change the bed to a pickup bed, (yeah right:shaking: ) So get this, he can get automobile plates for the 25k truck and ONLY tow the 5th wheel. Something is seriously fubared. Were still trying to figure this one out. Same time I am in the middle of building a flat bed for my 69 GMC 1 ton, chassis rating of 14k. WTF?
If you drive by the scales it says "All trucks, including rental trucks and local delivery trucks must enter" then it says "no pickups".

A friend is a weldor. His old pickup had the machine mounted on a flatbed with teh hose reels etc. They made him go through the scales. His new truck has the bed mounted and his gear is stuffed in it. No scales. Go figure.

[KWTMECH]

I guess I should have mentioned that he has disabled plates for the truck which for some odd reason makes him exempt from the scales. He drives by them all the time from cali all the way up to washington state. Update, today he went down to motor vehicles and got new license plates, AUTO plates (disabled). Now lets see how many times he gets pulled over for those. Fawking gov't, cannnot get their own rule book straight so everyone can understand it without a lawyer

[crashnzuk]

A friend of mine has a Featherlite flatbed on his truck. It has 3 or 4 inch permanent, non-removeable sides on it. The place he bought it from said this makes it technically a pick-up and not a flatbed. I've never looked it up, and don't know if this is 100% true or acurate, but I figured I'd offer it up to you all as a possibility.:confused:
Travis..