i have seen on this board about people using waggy springs to lengthen their wheel base and what not.

my question is why are they so popular? are they the same length as CJ springs and can be bolted up without modification to the spring mounts?

i know i might be flamed by this but i am looking for a way to move the front axle a couple of inches.....



thanks for any help

they are slightly longer (47" vs. 46") but still bolt up no problem, actually I think they give a better shackle angle then stock springs or aaftermarket replacments.

Wagoneer springs are 47" with 22.5/24.5 offset (2")
I think their popularity is partly due to their length and offset. Longer springs generally give you a marked improvement in ride and articulation.
I think they are about 2" longer than CJ springs. If you had to modify the hangers it would be minimal on a CJ. Just move the shackle hanger to get the correct shackle angle.
The downside if there is one is by running the short side outboard you can induce axle wrap. So a trac bar is a good idea.
By the way, :flipoff2:

I just installed the Waggy springs in the front of my CJ7 and with the MORE SRS the draglink hit the tierod so I had to use a shorter pitman arm there are other ways of getting around this, just a temporary fix for me. But my rear shackles are at an extreme angle probably a little more than 45 deg, not sure if the spring would hit the frame or not during compression so to fix that I ordered some boomerang shackles, should fix the problem plus they are a little longer.

more on waggys please:D
I'm considering this swap and moving front axle forward some more.

I have cj 2.5" rears front and back on my SOA yj. Or I may do yj stocks.
are they all 47"? there are 2 differnt packs right? 7 leaf and 2 leaf?
how much longer than yj is that? and how would arch effect highth compared to a stock yj spring?

Originally posted by kidwired

there are 2 differnt packs right? 7 leaf and 2 leaf?


Actually there is a 6 leaf pack and a 4 leaf I believe a 2 leaf and two different 7 leaf packs the HD version and the standard...the est one is the 7 leaf HD :D:D:D

Originally posted by kidwired
more on waggys please:D
I'm considering this swap and moving front axle forward some more.

I have cj 2.5" rears front and back on my SOA yj. Or I may do yj stocks.
are they all 47"? there are 2 differnt packs right? 7 leaf and 2 leaf?
how much longer than yj is that? and how would arch effect highth compared to a stock yj spring?

The lengths are close between the three, I think CJ's are called 45 1/2" or 46, YJ's are 46, and Waggies are called 47.
Sorry can't tell you free arch specs.

answers to your questions:
they fit without mods to the hangers.
they are popular because they offset the axle 1-1/2".
:beer:

ahh yes, put the in backwards cus the pins are offset. my axles would be about 3" forward then. cool :D

how about height?
are the rear pins offset as well?

Last time I checked waggie springs $$$. BDS had em at our local shop for 175 each. that sounds kinda high but maybe not. what have you guys heard. rancho 44044????

Originally posted by kidwired


are the rear pins offset as well?

Dude, these are the rear springs of a Wagoneer.
You can use them for the front or rear of your application.

Originally posted by riksnacjnow
Last time I checked waggie springs $$$. BDS had em at our local shop for 175 each. that sounds kinda high but maybe not. what have you guys heard. rancho 44044????

I think thats a bit high too.
You can get 52" custom Alcans made up for 180.
I thought Rancho's where around 100 to120. I could be wrong though.

are the fronts coil or leaf? I'm talking about stock waggies, I want a flat spring.

Originally posted by riksnacjnow
Last time I checked waggie springs $$$. BDS had em at our local shop for 175 each. that sounds kinda high but maybe not. what have you guys heard. rancho 44044????

rancho 44044s are real popular with the toyota guys much more articulation--bolt in--they run about 123 apiece if you want to know about the 44044 just search toyota 4-runner for 44044 and you will get all the info you could want

Originally posted by doctor_G


Dude, these are the rear springs of a Wagoneer.
You can use them for the front or rear of your application.

Rears? I'm pretty sure it's the fronts that people use. I don't think there even is a 7 leaf rear.

I just installed a set of Rancho 44044 on the front of my YJ this weekend. It moved my front end forward around 2". It gave me just enough clearance to let my 38.5 rub the inner part of the fender well. I run a Waggy 44 front end I had to unscrew the dragling a little to get it to all line up. The 44044 are front end 7 leafs from Rancho. The cheapest place to purchase them is Summt 275.00 tp your door. Jegs is about 50.00 higher, and everyone else will charge you 50.00 shipping.

is anyone using stock waggys?

OK, front waggy springs have a 2" offset center pin, come in 2, 4,5,6, and 7 leaf packs (7 being the best). Waggy rear springs are 56" long with an offset that I cant remember exactly right now. 44044 Ranchos also have the 2" offset center pin and offer about the same amount of lift as stock 7 leaf springs. I have run stocks springs all the way around on my YJ and now have MJ rear springs on the rear (almost the exact same as rear Waggy)

There was a huge post about this a few months back. Search on that and it should answer almost all the questions here (including steering).

I've got to qwit talking springs for awhile.
Somewhere I was misled, and was thinking the front springs where coil................wrong year?
Sorry for the misinformation guys.
What the hell Jeep springs are 52-3 inches long? Cherokee rears?
Someone set me straight here.

Originally posted by riksnacjnow
Last time I checked waggie springs $$$. BDS had em at our local shop for 175 each. that sounds kinda high but maybe not.
Originally posted by doctor_G [/i]
I think thats a bit high too. You can get 52" custom Alcans made up for 180. I thought Rancho's where around 100 to120. I could be wrong though.
Originally posted by v6toy4x [/i]
rancho 44044s are real popular with the toyota guys much more articulation--bolt in--they run about 123 apiece
Originally posted by bigjeepinYJ [/i]
The 44044 are front end 7 leafs from Rancho. The cheapest place to purchase them is Summt 275.00 tp your door. Jegs is about 50.00 higher, and everyone else will charge you 50.00 shipping.

:rolleyes:looks like we need to do some real research 'round here guys. Gimme a few and I'll try to pull it all together. Stay tuned! :D

I tried both the RANCHO and SUMMIT RACING websites and neither showed shiat when it came to the Rancho 44044. Most of the crap they show is to lower trucks. :barf:

If anybody has a better luck, post the website or scan the mag-ad and post it all here so we know the real deal. :beer:

When I got mine, I just called summit, asked for some RS 44044. They dont know shiat about lift spring applications. They were around 125.00 ea. free shipping, some kind of handleing fee. I think it was around 265.00 to my door. They were the cheapest I could find a few months ago.

-Jeremy

Originally posted by The Rockslut
44044 Ranchos also have the 2" offset center pin and offer about the same amount of lift as stock 7 leaf springs.
Bought how much lift is that compared to stock wrangler springs?

hope I dont get flamed for this.. did the search, found nothin...

How about Cherokee springs. Will those stretch the wheelbase more than Wagoneer springs? I'm looking for the spring that will move my rear axle back the farthest without sacrificing ride and flex.

They will be about a 3" spring on a yj. Depends on how much junk you have bolted onto your rig.

The rear springs will not stretch your wheelbase more then front springs. The rears have an offset center pin also but they are longer. This just allows the use of longer springs without having 8" of spring sticking out past your rear tire (like some toyotas :D).

hey Matt, that 3" from the waggy or chero? how much lift outta the wags?

Originally posted by kidwired
hey Matt, that 3" from the waggy or chero? how much lift outta the wags?

stock waggys/full size jeep front springs give 1.5" on a yj from what most people who have them say.

I know the post is about waggy springs, but if yall are interested in offseting the pin for added wheelbase, a buddy of mine just installed stock Toyota 4x4 rear springs on the rear of his '5. they offseted the rear 4in. and are the same length as yj springs, and they sit level with his stock cj springs in the front.

Just thought I'd let yall know,
Justin Ray

Are you all taking into consideration the change in your steering geometry up front and the potential increase of axle wrap in the rear?!? Changing the position of the centerpin is only the beginning. You should keep up on your research and make sure you are keeping things like your Ackeman angle in check, not to mention the changes in alignment and your pinion angle.

I could be wrong but you should make sure for yourself. :beer:

4 front Waggy spring from JC Whitney were $399.80 to the door. Something about free shipping if you spend over $200. That was 01/30/02. It moved each end out about 2". I didn't worry about the steering stuff because went full hydro. No wrap in the back with a track bar. There is wrap in the front ( taking my brother in laws word for it ).

TOMMY ... you gotta give us a full write up on how complete their kit is and how easy of an install it is OR is not. Get some pics of the flex too! Gotta have the pics!! :D

The track bar in the rear is a definite for me too. AS far as the front goes I am only gonna go Hydro assist and not the full awn gig cuz mine is gonna be part time DD and I have to drive to the trails.

Originally posted by TNScrambler
I know the post is about waggy springs, but if yall are interested in offseting the pin for added wheelbase, a buddy of mine just installed stock Toyota 4x4 rear springs on the rear of his '5. they offseted the rear 4in. and are the same length as yj springs, and they sit level with his stock cj springs in the front.

Just thought I'd let yall know,
Justin Ray

What year Yota, 2 or 4WD?

I have a set of factory 7 leaf waggy front springs that have the same amount of arch if not more SOA as a brand new set of 44044's. Thats about how much lift you will get.

Toyota springs are 2.25" wide where waggy and wrangler are 2.5"

Another idea (that I'm researching) would be to have a single main leaf made to offset the centering pin and use it with my current leaf pack. It looks like it will work well and each new main leaf will cost ~$60 (or ~$240 for all 4). Also, because the main leaf will be made to order, it will give you the flexability to adjust for your aplication. I'm just throwing out ideas.

Originally posted by newt
Another idea (that I'm researching) would be to have a single main leaf made to offset the centering pin and use it with my current leaf pack. It looks like it will work well and each new main leaf will cost ~$60 (or ~$240 for all 4). Also, because the main leaf will be made to order, it will give you the flexability to adjust for your aplication. I'm just throwing out ideas.

true but you can only offset the pack so far before the other springs will run into the eyelet on the short side. There comes a point when the restof the pack needs to be offset too.

Hey Slut, just so I understand you, I will be offsetting the springs ~2.5" and I don't think the main leaf will interfear with the others because the eye is above the other springs. Do you see what I mean, or am I missing something. The new main leaf will be roughly 20"/25" vice the stock 22.5"/22.5"

don't know if this makes anything clearer, but here is a pic of 44044 vs stock Toy fronts:

Originally posted by jasonmt
don't know if this makes anything clearer, but here is a pic of 44044 vs stock Toy fronts:

Hey Jason ... Good comparo between the two. It would be kinda hard to not to understand it that way.:D Could you add the Waggie 7 pack to the comparo you got goin' on? THANKS! :beer:

What year Yota, 2 or 4WD?


they were out of the rear of an '83 4x4 toyota




Justin

Am I missing something or would the lenghts of the 44044 only result in ~1" of offset (and therefore 1" of extended wheel base). If the lengths are right from the pic, 20.75"/22.88" is only 1" of offset, right?

Thanks for the picture and lengths. As they say 'a pictures worth a thousand words."

Newt: My experience with 44044 in the front of my Toy moved the front axle forward about 1" at rest, but because of the rear mounted shackles in a Toy as it flexes the wheels move back in the wheel wells. In a Jeep with front mounted shackles the wheels would move forward in the wheelwells as it flexes. Would end up with wheel forward in excess of 2" when the 44044 is fully compressed?
tigger4x: That is a picture off of this board - not mine, but it matches the measurements on my 44044.

From DRM's page at: http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota/misc__spring_information.htm.
Flat length Front Half Rear Half Width SOA / SUA
80-85 Toyota front 45" 22.5" 22.5" 2.36" SOA
80-85 Rancho 3" Toyota front 45.12" 22.56" 22.56" 2.36" SOA
SkyJacker 5" Toyota front 46" 23" 23" 2.36" SOA
Jeep YJ Front or Rear 45" 22.5" 22.5" 2.50" SUA
Pro Comp Jeep YJ 2.5" Lift 46" 23" 23" 2.50 SUA
Mazda rear (?? year) 52" 26.5" 25.5" 2.36" SUA
80-88 Toy rear 48" 20.5" 27.5" 2.36" SOA
80-88 4" SkyJacker Rear 49" 21" 28" 2.36" SOA
80-88 5" SkyJacker Rear 49.5" 21.25" 28.25" 2.36" SOA
89-95 Toy Rear 51" 21.5" 29.5" 2.36" SOA
84 Mazda 2wd rear 51.5" 25.5" 26" 2.36" SUA
85 S-10 Blazer 4wd rear 48" 21" 27" 2.50" SUA
83 Ford Ranger 2wd rear 57" 25.5" 31.5" 2.50" SUA
84 Isuzu Trooper II rear 47" 21" 26" ??? SUA
76 Jeep Wagoneer 4wd rear (6 leaf) 57" 26" 31" 2.50" SOA
76 Jeep Wagoneer 4wd front (6 leaf) 48" 24" 24" 2.50" SUA
89 Chevy 2wd rear 63" ?? ?? 2.50" SUA
84 Jeep Cherokee rear (4 leaf) 52.5" 23.5" 29" 2.50" SOA
Rancho 44044 47.00 22.50” 24.50” 2.50” SUA

Here is a better view of DRM's chart: