Questioable Buyer Concern? Need help!

[Duffster]

This is a long post I'm sorry but Let me start by explaining the sale. I sold a set of New never used high pinion Dana 60's from Dynatrac that had been sitting for 2+ years to a gentleman back east. He fell on hard times and ask that I help him resell them. I had not shipped these axles to him and agreed to store them for him here in Az untill he sold them. He sold these axles about a month later to another individual here on the west coast. This is where it gets funny! The individual calls me and tells me to ship them to him. I had not yet heard from the first owner telling me he had sold them. The new owner asks about the shipping and says that he was told i had agreed to drop them off at the shipping yard. This is true as when I sold them I was off work for the week and said I had time would do it. He seemed a little agitated that my work schedule would not accomadate his rush to get the axles shiped. I suggested that he call another shipping company and have them picked up at my place. He called back and I was told that it was going to cost approx $50 more for them to do that and that he was willing to wait till I could find a day to get off work to save him the $50 dollars. I explained to him my wife was having a baby on the monday of the following week and that I wouldn't be able to do it till the Thursday or friday of the next week. He said okay but acted very aggresive in his behavior that I wouldn't be able to do it sooner. On monday the following week he calls me 5 minutes after we had just had the baby and leaves a message that he had found a company to pick it up and deliver it to Forward Air for shipping and said he needed someone to put it on the truck. I told him I would be at the hospital all week with my wife as we had a rough delivery and my wife and son were very sick! He said he needed a day to tell the shipping company and I told him wed. I told him that I would leave the hospital to load it if I had to. I never recieved a call back from him to confirm the pickup. I recieved a call from a driver on wed afternoon that he was there to pick up a palet of axles. At this time my son was in surgery. I left the hospital borrowed a fork lift loaded the pallet called him let him know the axles were picked up. Not so much as a thank you! When the shipping driver picked them up he asked me if the palet weighed 350 pounds? I assurred him it weighed that and more. How someone thinks that two HP dana 60's only weigh 350 pounds I don't know. The first buyer had called Dynatrac and got the shipping weight from them. I didn't hear anything until yesterday morning.I recieved a phone message from the the new owner yesterday morning where he was very pissed and upset because he had picked up the axles and had to pay double the shipping price because the shipping weight was understated and wanted to know who was going to riemburse him the extra amount? Me or the first buyer? I then recieved a call
from the first buyer that he had called and stated the the front ring gear and ARB was not installed in the front axle. Here is where i question things. I have purchased some 10+ sets of axles from Dynatrac. I know for a fact those axles had never been opened since the day I picked them up at Dynatrac and unless Dynatrac forgot to put them in there? NOT! Something is not right here! I called the new owner last nigh and left him a message and sent him an email requesting pics. He called me this morning and left a message saying that the axles were missing. I saved the message. I recieved pics this morning. In the pictures I agree the ARB and ring gear are missing but the axles are there. Question is what do I do about it. I'm the original buyer and seller of these axles. I think I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for these axles. Am I being taken advantage of to recoup the shipping cost? What does the board think about this? suggestions? No names please! I want to get an honest opinion!

[rokcrwlrtj]

If the gears and arb were in there i would say you are done wit your end of the deal.


Now if somehow you can comfirm the arb and gears were missing then I would think dynatrac would be the responsible party. If the gears werent there though i would think you would have noticed a yoke missing since there would be nothing for it to be bolted too.

[higgy182]

personally i think this guy or these guys are trying to wenzel you... his line of thinking is probably i've got way too much time on my hands and this guy sounds way busy with his whole situation right now so why not try to wenzel him...

If i were you i would see if he has a pirate name hopefully he does cuz then we can flame him until he confesses like wenzel did.

As long as you stay close to pirate everything will come out in your favor in teh end...

Lock and Roll...

[pmurf1]

If the gears and arb were in there i would say you are done wit your end of the deal.


Now if somehow you can comfirm the arb and gears were missing then I would think dynatrac would be the responsible party. If the gears werent there though i would think you would have noticed a yoke missing since there would be nothing for it to be bolted too.

Did you ever lock in the hubs and spin the yoke on the one supposedly missing it's guts? What does your receipt say, were they installed and paid for? Something seems hokey. Either someone is trying to get a free set of gears and ARB or Dynatrac really screwed the pooch. Either way, I think you're SOL.

[Duffster]

I know Dynatrac wouldn't ship an incomplete order! I have purchased numerous axle sets off them over the years. If I had taken the gears out I would have taken the Pinion gear also!!! The pics show the whole carrier and ring gear gone but the pinion gear is still there!

[rockbuggy84]

Ask him to see a pic of the top of the third member. This should say it all, because the hole for the air line will be there! If no hole, send these pic's to dynatrac and ask them if they will pay. If there is a hole tell them fawk off. Dynatrac don't drill hole's for look's. As for the shipping, I see no reason to pay the difference. You didn't have them shiped.

[440-fide Ramcharger]

Sounds to me like you should tell him to pound sand.

Unless you never spun the pinion. You would know for sure if there was no ring gear and carrier.

Once it left your place with HIS shipper, his problem.

IMHO of course, Mark

[Duffster]

After looking at the picks and seeing the silicone on the housing where Dynatrac closed up the cover. They would never seal up an empty housing, a big glob of grease on the end of the shaft from when you pull the axles out. When you push the axle in the Blue grease goes to the inside of the splined end the shaft. And the pinion gear is still there and the ARB fitting is there on the housing. I know the cover was never removed while it was at my place! Thanks everyone for the help and opinions!

Duffster

[Duffster]

Here is a copy of the email he sent to me this morning.

Duffy,
You need to address the problems with the ft axle, I spoke with ***** (The first buyer) last night and this looks very bad on your part. I do not believe that you were not aware of the problems with the axles. You and I both know what is involved to remove the ring gear, carrier and locker assy. Someone (if not you) disassembled the ft axle to remove these items then reassembled it.

You have already cost me a lot of money for shipping which I will attempt to collect. I believe you have been untruthful in our conversations and where we are at now only reaffirms my suspicions, if need be I will escalate this to a legal matter (my family has an attorney on retainer) and advise people how Duffy does business.

You have until tomorrow to respond or I will begin to spread the word about our transaction. The End



On a side note The Buyer I have had not a conversations since I was made aware of the situation! He did not answer my call, but did call the first buyer and try to get him to pay for the shipping difference.

[Myanarchy]

So he says you stole it?


I'd tell him to go ahead with legal matters if he wants. Get a lawyer now:(

[Duffster]

After todays email I retained counsel

Duffy

[rednck21]

so was there a hole for the arb fitting??

[Duffster]

There is a hole for the fitting in the picture he sent. But I have a picture of the axles on the pallet before they were shipped with the ARB fitting in it with a black plastic cap on it.

[krawlfreak]

its a scam:shaking:

[Duffster]

here is the lastest email from the new buyer.

"Duffy,
I have absolutely nothing to gain by removing the ring gear, carrier and locker. the ring gear is useless without the pinion and why would I sabotage axles I just paid $6000.00 for? Duffy knock it off, I wanted and paid for complete axles~when I got them home and off my flatbed trailer in the garage I removed the diff cover because the shafts would not turn when I turned the pinion yoke. It took me an hour to get home from the shipping terminal then approx another hour to remove the axles from the pallet into the garage then I had to put the trailer away. I then called ***** (the first buyer) around 4:00 p.m. MST to advise him the parts were missing and at 5:00 p.m. MST I uploaded the photos to Mike after taking off the rear diff cover to make sure nothing was missing on that one.

Duffy we are not talking about a $20.00 item. You owe money for your untruths. I will get this fixed weather you pay for it or ****( The first buyer) does. But it is not fair that **** (The first buyer) pays for it since he bought them from you. I do find it interesting that you have refused to address the other issues that have come up. Trust me when I say that I will spend my own money to ruin any chance you have of ever doing business anywhere. Take care of your problem..
THE END


I sent an email asking him to clarify what other issues? I am unaware of any other issues!

[rockbuggy84]

Do not get an attorney. There is no need, cause this dipshit will do nothing but threaten. If you have picture's of the axle's when shiped, and fitting's are there you're fine. Just save the pic's he sent you just in case.

[rockbuggy84]

This is kinda a long shot? Do you remember the shipping weight of the axle's? If so call Dynatrac and ask shiping weight on these axle's when they leave there shop. The arb, ring gear, and bearing's are gonna weigh enough to notice between the two time's they were shipped. Might work??

[chromewontgetyouhome]

What shipping company was used? Maybee someone working there stole it?

[Duffster]

Thanks Rockbuggy. I already consulted an attorney today after he threatened to ruin me. Just being cautious. I really appreciate everyone input!


Duffster

[patchzx7r]

EXTREMELY LONG RESPONSE!!!



:shaking: I am happy that this is out now because I am the one that purchased these axles from the first buyer:shaking: .

I am happy to provide any information neccessary to prove that the front diff was missing the Ring Gear, and the ARB along with the bearings when I recieved it.

1) I sent a check to the first buyer for the advertised price of 5750.00. I then instructed him to wait until the check cleared then notify Duffy it is ok to ship the axles. See below

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Sussman
To: Matt Ipaktchian
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Dynatrac 60s


Matt,

The check cleared.
I'll email Duffy and let him know and to work with you
on any arrangements.

Much appreciated,
Michael


2)I did not get a call from Duffy so I called him that evening, bare in mind people I just gave a check to an individual for almost 6000.00 :eek: and he has never touched or seen the axles in person. But I researched Duffy on Pirate and it seemed as if he had been around a while so I was cautious. I then waited another day and still no return call to prepare shipping arrangements. So I called him again and after returning my call he advised the soonest he could drop off the axles would be January 18-19. So I was out of town until the evening the of 19th with NO PHONE CALL that he was not able to drop off the axles:flipoff2: . I then called him because for over a week the understanding was that the axles were being dropped off either day and I would pay for the shipping from forward air terminal in Phoenix to Denver.

3) Duffy was paid $50.00 dollars according to the first seller to drop off the axles at the terminal. After talking to Duffy I was beginning to feel suspicious because he stated he was trying to do me a favor by dropping them off and that is was something he was not being paid for. Having children myself I understood that he would not be able to take the time and drop the axles off so I told him I found a transporter that would pick up the pallet for $36.47 as long as someone loaded it with forklift on the truck and they would take it to forward air. He then advised me that he had someone (i think a grandfather or father I don't remember exactly) there all the time that could work a forklift and that all I had to do was call him and let him know. I later got a call from Air Cargo Transit the new cost was 94.00 because of weight that was underestimated.


4)Duffy, :flipoff2: this is where I get pissed in reading your thread on this whole f**kin deal:flipoff2: . You then state that no one called you until the day of to pick up the axles. THAT IS A LIE, Air Cargo called you on Tuesday after they recieved my overnight check to set up the pick up and verify you had a forklift to move the pallet on the truck.

5)I then got a call from Duffy stating that the axles were picked up at around 12:00 MST and I told you Thanks and i will call you if there is anything wrong. After the axles were picked up I called the first buyer to tell him the axles are finally being shipped and he was quite upset becuase he had paid Duffy extra to pallet and drop off the axles when he paid Duffy. He then contacted Duffy and got no response. So then when they get to forward air I get a call that it will cost exactly 201.68 to ship instead of the 104.00 I was quoted (given the dimensions in the thread) becuase the pallet weighs over 800#. The first buyer was also very upset about this because he was given a bid from Forward Air to ship to the east coast on the shipping wait from Duffy. Forward Air gave me one day to send them a cashiers check for the 200+ dollars otherwise it would be 50.00 a day for storage. I then overnighted the check to them and the axles leave Phoenix on Friday and arrive in Denver. On Tuesday morning I get a call that the axles are in the terminal and I can get them.




4) See thread below for complete information on axles INCLUDING DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT GIVEN TO FIRST SELLER BY DUFFY.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418732&highlight=dynatrac


Here is the pallet info:

Hey everyone this is Duffy. I sold him the axles so lets get it all straight. These are new axles. The only difference between the ones I have for sale and these axles is the outer shafts on these are 31 spline I believe. These have the high steer arms on them and mine don't. The guy is in a bind and needs to sell them. He has paid for them but they will ship from my shop in Phx, Arizona. This is a GREAT DEAL! About half the price they were new!!!

Duffy



Member #6579
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North East
Posts: 73 To all interested: If a Forward Air terminal, <www.forwardair.com> is close the savings for shipping is tremendous. The zip location of the axles are 85383 in Peoria, AZ. The pallet is 6'6"L X 37"W X 18"H. Weight 450-500lbs.
__________________4 Play always starts with a Toy!

’76 FJ40 - 383 Chevy, FI, SM465, lockers, SOA, Boggers

5) I get there about 2:00 p.m. and the first thing I notice is the lokar E-brake that Duffy was suppose to put on the pallet was not there:mad3:. It takes me an hour to get home in the traffic and I back the flatbed trailer into the garage to unload the axles. I remove them from the pallet and have a neighbor help me unload the 800# axles onto the ground. I put the trailer back and start to look over the axles and notice the outer shafts are not turning when I turn the pinion yoke:confused: ?? I check the hubs and they work fine, so then I remove the diff cover and see that there is no internals only the pinion and the bearing caps:flipoff: ?? http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos (click on "pictures" link) I call the first buyer and I am fawkin pisst at this point becuase of everything that has happened thus far it is about 4:00 p.m. I then send photos after checking the rear axle and pulling the cover off (which is fine BTW) a little after 5:00 p.m. to the first owner then to duffy later that night after he emailed that he wanted them as well.

5)Quote from Duffy: (Sorry I don't know how to copy multiple quotes into this)

He called me this morning and left a message saying that the axles were missing. I saved the message. I recieved pics this morning. In the pictures I agree the ARB and ring gear are missing but the axles are there. Question is what do I do about it. I'm the original buyer and seller of these axles. I think I have gone above and beyond the call of duty for these axles.

Duffy, I never said the axles are missing?? Why would I send you photos of a missing axle?? I just want the axles I paid $5750.00 for in the condition I was quoted on the phone and in the thread

Then it gets ugly because the first owner is stuck becuase he bought the axles from Duffy and advertised them as complete:shaking: . I have done everything possible to be upfront and honest about this whole deal.

I want what I paid for 2 complete axles ready to be used. I can in no way benefit from removing the internals that are missing because I would have to buy another master instal set, a ring and pinion set and a ARB Locker.

The axle had a locker in it and it was removed the photos prove that, it was in no ones possession but Duffy.. So here is the details thus far minus voicemails demanding that Duffy do the right thing here..


Alright Duffy the ball is in your court, and I packed a lunch to hang out and argue as long as you want, but we both know I could not have removed the parts and reassembled the axle in one hour then snapped photos just to try to fuck you out of some $, no way man, no way..

[patchzx7r]

Do not get an attorney. There is no need, cause this dipshit will do nothing but threaten. If you have picture's of the axle's when shiped, and fitting's are there you're fine. Just save the pic's he sent you just in case.

Perhaps you should rethink callin me a dipshit?? I am trying to help the first buyer from getting fucked out of money..

[patchzx7r]

Do not get an attorney. There is no need, cause this dipshit will do nothing but threaten. If you have picture's of the axle's when shiped, and fitting's are there you're fine. Just save the pic's he sent you just in case.

No Duffy, I want you to consult an attorney because what is going on here is not over a small amount of money and i have everything well documented.

[patchzx7r]

My response to Duffy via email:

It seems you beat me to posting on Pirate.. Good. Get with Mike and make this deal right.. It is not fair.

The other issues were the repainting of the housings, I called Dynatrac and they are researching the build sheets as every axle that leaves there is coded on the tubes, of which some of the codes have been grinded after paint and repainted again. Which Dynatrac can think of no reason this would be done. Plus the diff gasket has overspray on it which they paint the housing before parts are installed.

We can become pen pals or get all 3 on the phone and hammer this out.. It is your call.
----- Original Message -----
From: duffster@cox.net
To: Matt Ipaktchian
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Axles


Matt,
Clarify please. What other issues?

[chevota01]

As the original buyer and seller to Matt, I'm caught between a rock and a hardspot. I've heard both sides from Matt and Duffy and both are sticking to their guns. I received a check from Matt on Monday, 1/9/2006 and emailed Duffy on 1/12/06 that Matt purchased the axles and provided his phone number and contact info. That's the last I heard for close to 3 weeks. Matt called me about the shipping issues and how they were not shipped and had to spend additional money for the shipping. I asked why I was not contacted to get involved and help with any issues. I have heard from both parties about this situation.

On Tuesday, 2/1/2006, I received a phone call from Matt stating the ring gear, ARB and brake cable were missing and pictures were sent upon my request. I contacted Duffy and he said the axles have not been touched and has bought numerous pairs from Dynatrac and why would I take out the locker and leave the pinion gear. Also he taped the brake cable securely to the axles.

I would like to have this resolved myself, ASAP. Whether one party is fu#king over another or it is a legitmate error, I cannot take sides on something I have not seen or know the resolve of the individuals involved. I also understand that the shipping weight was wrong-I'll take all the heat for that to move forward. To me the weight is the weight and the buyer needs to pay it regardless. I have yet to see a deal on Pirate or anywhere the seller pays for any of it.

As the seller and an honest person, I want to see this made right. I sold the axles at a loss of $2500.00 from my original price paid to Duffy to pay for bills that continue to mount. My financial situation in the present is difficult at best.

The bottom line is, as the seller to Matt, I would like to see this resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Matt has asked me to talk to Duffy about getting money back for the additional shipping - which I do not believe he is entitled to. As of this email, both parties are sticking to their guns.

If the axles arrived without the taped brake cable, maybe the airlocker was stolen in transit?

Michael

[TRNDRVR]

If the axles arrived without the taped brake cable, maybe the airlocker was stolen in transit?Wow!!!:eek: Now there's a thought.:shaking:

[chevota01]

My sentiments exactly!!!!!
Michael

[Duffster]

I'll respond to to discrepancies.
1. You did call before i ever recieved an email or phone call from the first buyer

2.I was never paid $50 to drop off the axles! I was reimbursed the cost of the materials to crate the axles and was told to put any left over towards the gas for dropping it off and that is it!

3. I never agreed with anyone to pay for any shipping cost! Nor did I ever give any weight measurements. I only gave the first buyer the crate demensions. You are responsible for ALL shipping cost!

4.No one at anytime prior to picking up the axle except when the driver was lost and called to ask for directions on the same day called to let me know they were picking up the axles.

5.The ebrake was in a garbage bag tied in a knot aound the axle by the caliper. Right after I loaded it on the truck the driver suggested we put some tape around it so as the wind wouldn't blow it off. So we put a couple wraps of duck tape on the bag. Not sure if any tape was actually on the axle?

6.Yes I did respray the axles tubes and told the first buyer I had as I did it right before I put them on the pallet as the axles looked weathered which was approx. one month before you purchased them. My only intent was to clean them up!

7. Now your really making shit up! I never ground anything off those axles. So don't say I ground any numbers off!!!!!!!!!!!!


My opinion is that your pissed over the shipping cost and are trying to burn me and the first buyer to recoupe your shipping cost! I have consulted an attorney and please feel free to pursue whatever legal avenues necessary.

[chevota01]

To clear the air on the paid shipping for $50.00. I looked at my notes and Duffy said to throw in an extra $50 when the crate was being made which would cover any additional costs for the crate or gas to the delivery depot. I assumed this was payment made for delivery of the axles to Forward Air and in retrospect was a misunderstanding. I will take the heat if I caused any misunderstanding amongst Matt and Duffy on the delivery info. The remainder is still in question.
Michael

[jaybirdd]

A claim should have been made IMMEDIATELY with the shipping company, if 1 party says it was shipped in a certain condition, and the second party says it was recieved in a different condition, the responsibility lies with the shipper to prove what happened! If parts that were supposed to be taped to the housing were not there when the pallet was picked up, the shipment should have been refused, or a claim should have been initiated at that time. If the buyer did not do this, it is his fault, and nothing can be done about it now, except bitching to the seller and trying to get him to pay!

[Duffster]

After having a three way conversation with all the parties involved. The new buyer admits to having broke the seal on the housing and that the silicone was faded on the outside from sun damage. We left the conversation with no conclusion as to how the ring and pinion disappeared after it left my place. We know by the pics it was in the housing but not sure how it came to be missing.

Duffster

[chevota01]

Having taken part in the conversation, I will verify that the diff cover was opened for the first time by the buyer. The buyer has contacted Dynatrac for the build sheet which was provided and verified that the axle in question had an ARB and is 35 spline with 488 gears with a build date of 2001. It appears from the images provided by the buyer that an ARB was installed at one time. The buyer is going to contact Dynatrac to find out if it was possible that the air locker was removed by Dynatrac prior to shipping for some unknown reason. Thank you Duffy and Matt for a civil conversation.
Michael

[KYcrawler]

matt the new buyer has no legal claim with duffy as he didnt buy the axles from him . As far as matt stating he has no reason to pull the arb and ring gear as he would have to buy new doesnt make sense as after the check is cut he can just bolt the old one back in and have an extra grand for the new locker and gears . as far, as the shipping cost thats matts problem too the money was paid to ship YOUR axles , so basically you accepted an incomplete shipment you get to eat it

[patchzx7r]

Some may think there is an ulterior motive and that is my reasoning I would go through all this brain damage to sabotage my own axle. You could not be anymore wrong. I have only touched the diff cover and nothing else. I am sure that Dynatrac will be able answer some of the questions raised thus far.

As to the shipping costs incurred, you are correct. I have never shipped axles before and should have checked with Dynatrac before the axles shipped to get an accurate bid.

This whole ordeal leaves a very bad impression on all involved. I am hoping that Dynatrac has a way of knowing if a new, never used and never disassembled axle was final assembled minus the parts in question? I will found out very soon.

[KYcrawler]

is there any marking compound on the pinion ? bottom line is still that you have no viable complaint against duffy you sent the check to someone else your beef is with them then they would have to pursue action against duffy thats how it works , anyway about it you dont really have a way to prove that they were not in the axle when you recieved it so your basically up shit creek

[ibrocun]

Duffy, you have failed to update us on the really important part of this: How are your wife and son doing?

[mudslinger99]

I might have missed something but don't these 2 statements contradict each other :confused:

The axles are bare.
TTT
Axles just need brackets-they are complete!

[KWTMECH]

When I ship big ticket items, I take pictures AT THE DEPOT, this serves 2 purposes, 1--I have documentation of the pallet and what is on it, and 2-- the guy at the depot sees me taking pictures.

[Duffster]

Thanks for asking Ibrocun. They are fine and home now. The little one may need surgery again but for now he is doing well. Again thanks for asking. That means alot!

Duffster

[krb]

There is something to be learned here,buy big ticket items IN PERSON!

[NothernAZxj]

Ive bought from duffy before and dont see him doing this kinda crap........also jDuffy didnt you take pics of the pallet before it left?.........I to am thinking that the arb was stolen in transit

[krazeemofo]

Duffster-Unfortunetly I have some experience with this type of situation.

I would reccommend you get the weight of the axles from the shipping company used to ship the axles to the new buyer and confirm that weight from the shipping tag when they were sent to you. The front ARB and ring gear are a signifigant weight and will show up.

Furthermore you could confirm weights with dynatrac.

This kind of Bullshit is why I only do pick up now.


Good luck.

Let me know if you need any weights I have arbs and ring gears on hand.

[DOAOFFROAD]

If you still have the pallet and all the parts... weigh them. Check this weight against the weight claimed by the shipping company. If it is lighter (an ARB and ring gear lighter) then it disappeared after they were shipped. End of story. Then you can rule out being ripped off by the seller... or sellers... or whatever.

Make sense?

[1tonhd]

I have some first hand experience in shipping, I worked at a warehouse similar to Forwardair several years back, and I would not be suprised at all if the arb and gears where stolen in transit.

We used to have ALOT of stuff go missing

Ive shipped through Forwardair and been in several of their locations and its nothing different then where I worked, so its something to consider.

[coyote]

you got that right....if they can get access they will...the new buyer should just make a claim with the shipping co....that's the first step....the insurance level will be more then enough to cover $2k or more.....

[mdill]

Stolen in transit, does not make sence, to pull the ARB
you would have to pull the shafts (Read lots of work), The
last buyer, confirms he broke the seal on the diffy, I don't
see a line gunt stealing the ARB then sealing the cover.

Interesting to see what Dynatrac has to say, seems to weird
to be true. Do the numbers line up with what they sold in the first place ?

How long was the axle in transit ? It looks like the pallet was a first class job, when it arrived did it look like it had been
torn apart and put back together ?

Good luck, somehow I think someone is going to get Screwed on this deal

Mike D.

[patchzx7r]

I took the morning and visited two very prominent off road shops in Denver today.


A couple of opinions were sighted in my conversations and review of the pictures.


The Bearing Cap that is shown on the right side is not even a Dynatrac one: photo # DSCN3394 http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos

As stated before~ nothing was stolen in transit verified by opinions and lack of markings on the axle assy.

Whoever it was that stole it knew they wanted the ARB and did not care about the Gears but took the time to re-install a bearing caps one of which is not a Dynatrac Bearing Cap. However someone took the time to methodically remove the parts to gain access to the locker and re-assembled it.

The ARB fitting is still on the housing. the bearing cap that was installed was not even notched for an ARB.

An ARB Air Locker alone is around 800.00 dollars.

The original seller built scramblers for a living (or used to anyway that business is gone now) why would anyone steal a locker and then completely re-assemble it so it appears to be complete on the outside. That is a question only the original seller could answer and probably won't:shaking: .

The bottom of the housing is showing some seapage (between the diff cover and housing)from the remaining oil that was left and with the rust on the inside of the housing it is evident that the housing has been without oil for some time.

These are opinions of professionals not shade tree guys like us. I have the information I need, ( I will not reveal everything here).

I will be contacting the seller that sold me the axles and go from there. I was tryin to be nice in the beginning and now I am past that point. Duffy still concludes that I am doing this for payback on shipping:confused:. I will pursue this until I am reimbursed in parts or money.


I do want to thank everyone for the opinions, good and bad.

I know I have learned a lot by doing this and hopefully you guys have too. The guys I talked to today could not believe what happened and one had even heard about this. So it proves that this forum helps out a lot of us..

[Duffster]

Mike since you want to name call and point fingers. I have spoken with the individuals you have spoken with at dynatrac. I'm aware of what your trying to pull! I will answer your questions.

#1. I never touched the inside of the housing!
If anyone did there would be fingerprints! Have it printed it doesn't cost you a thing.

#2. You full of shit about the seepage because Dynatrac doesn't ship axles
with fluid in them and you admitted to having alot of difficulty getting the cover off and that you broke the seal and that the silicone had been on there a long time due to the fading from the sun!

I have retained counsel. Please due pursue this in court. I look forward to meeting you in person. It's not about the money! It's the principal! Bottom line I think your a scammer!

[patchzx7r]

Duffy you are blind to your own foolishness.


Dynatrac is an outstanding company and has a reputation that you could only dream about having. They have nothing to do with this, I had to get them involved in the beginning only because your determined to try to cover your ass and your reputation is at stake:flipoff: .

I am confident and can prove that the part(s) was removed while in your possession either with or without your knowledge.

The truly shitty thing is that you are so arrogant you are going to drag a 3rd party thru this whole ordeal because I bought it from him.

I think you’re pathetic, and your logic is beyond flawed, it is fucking absurd.
Any savvy businessman would consider that the obvious information right in front of you is blatantly pointing at the fact that someone stole the locker. I guess that is why you were liquidating what was left of your business?

I can without doubt prove it was not me (or in transit) and we all know Dynatrac would never let it happen.

Go ahead Duffy let your arrogance blind your judgment.

You will be proven wrong soon enough:cool2: ..

[roundeye]

It's time to post the pictures.

[XJ99]

I think your best route to go would be with the fingerprints....

Have the diff Internals dusted by someone certified, then attempt to match them to Duffys prints, of course to get his prints you'll need a court order or warrant but It sounds like theres enough PC to obtain his prints. If his prints dont match then he's in the clear and his story is true that he never cracked the cover....The first buyer really has nothing to do with the matter besides the fact that the money transactin was between you and him, which is sad because he's being dragged in to something he has no control over.

If Duffy's dont match then Its
A. the shipping company or dynatrac...which I doubt because business's dont scam people or they wouldnt be in business...
B. You yourself are the culprit, which again I highly doubt, I know once I got some 6k badass axles I'd be excited as hell to put them in my rig and I wouldnt be wasting time tryin to haggle 1,000 bucks back....

Just my 2 cents....

[roy jones]

wow i feel sorry for you guys

[Duffster]

I will gladly offer my fingerprints to help in any way.

Duffy

[NakedDucks]

Well,.....

I personally think finger printing the axle will be a waste of time, for 2 reasons....

1) There's so much oil (or was) in there, that the prints will be blurry, or marred at best...chances are, there won't be enough to match...if any at all

2) I could be the only one, but a lot of people wear latex gloves or something when they are dealing w/ something that oily and greasy. Therefore, NO prints at all.

[XJ99]

Well,.....

I personally think finger printing the axle will be a waste of time, for 2 reasons....

1) There's so much oil (or was) in there, that the prints will be blurry, or marred at best...chances are, there won't be enough to match...if any at all

2) I could be the only one, but a lot of people wear latex gloves or something when they are dealing w/ something that oily and greasy. Therefore, NO prints at all.

very tru, I never even considered oil ruining prints, but there was never any put in there so It should be clean right? I'v never done a gear Install but I cant Imagine to much being put in there to get them seated correctly, or am I wrong? I wasnt taking sides, was Just tryin to offer Ideas and look outside the box

[patchzx7r]

B. You yourself are the culprit, which again I highly doubt, I know once I got some 6k badass axles I'd be excited as hell to put them in my rig and I wouldnt be wasting time tryin to haggle 1,000 bucks back....
Just my 2 cents....

Obvious logic that seems to be overlooked..:shaking:

[Narrock]

Hi guys, I'm relatively new to this website. I've been reading these forums for quite some time now because I love 4x4's and wheelin,' and I finally decided to become a member of this community. After reading this particular thread 3 times I'd like to offer my 2-cents on the matter from a former police officer's perspective.

First off, I don't know any of the parties involved. The only thing I know about any of you folks is from what I've been reading about in this forum. I'd like to state, that in my opinion, the original owner (Mike?) of the axles is free and clear and should not be dragged into any of this, nor should he be held responsible for any damages/monies/restitution, etc. He is out of the loop as far as I'm concerned.

After reading all this 3 times over, and relating what happened here to what I've witnessed in the past as a police officer, I have come to the conclusion that Duffy is the innocent party here out of the two bickering. I base this on rationale, and experience in "reading between the lines."

However, this does not mean that I think Patch is lying or is trying to pull a Wenzel. All I'm saying is that the "burdon of proof" lies upon Patch to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the gears (or whatever) were removed by Duffy, prior to delivery, because Patch is the one making the accusation. As far as the item being stolen in transit... I think it's unlikely given the timeframe involved, but it is also possible. Not to go off on a tangent, but I wrecked a Camaro one time and it was in the body shop yard waiting to be worked on, and someone had stolen the heads, and carb from the engine. It ends up that it was an "inside job" at the body shop. So, from that perspective I know it is possible that things get stolen while in the custody and control of a "yard" or "transit" company.

I think the fingerprint idea is a great idea. Oil will preserve a print with extreme accuracy and would be a great indicator as to who was tampering with the inside of the transfer case. We used corn husk oil on arrested people to obtain their prints. We rub their fingers with the oil and then roll their fingers over an optical scanner to obtain crystal clear prints. So, once again, the oil inside the transfer case will be a great tool in this case. Now, if someone wore gloves the entire time then that will be no good obviously.

Bottom line is that both parties presented believable and lucid arguments, but at this juncture, any court I've ever seen would side with Duffy, and again... the "burdon of proof" rests with Patch. Good luck to both of you.

[vintagespeed]

Any updates on this mess? I find it pretty hard to believe that someone would have an axle sitting for years? without turning the pinion. We all do it.

-jb

Duffy you are blind to your own foolishness.
...Go ahead Duffy let your arrogance blind your judgment.

You will be proven wrong soon enough:cool2: ..

[patchzx7r]

First off, I don't know any of the parties involved. The only thing I know about any of you folks is from what I've been reading about in this forum. I'd like to state, that in my opinion, the original owner (Mike?) of the axles is free and clear and should not be dragged into any of this, nor should he be held responsible for any damages/monies/restitution, etc. He is out of the loop as far as I'm concerned.



I agree, but my attorney says differently.




However, this does not mean that I think Patch is lying or is trying to pull a Wenzel. All I'm saying is that the "burdon of proof" lies upon Patch to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the gears (or whatever) were removed by Duffy, prior to delivery, because Patch is the one making the accusation.


Bottom line is that both parties presented believable and lucid arguments, but at this juncture, any court I've ever seen would side with Duffy, and again... the "burdon of proof" rests with Patch. Good luck to both of you.

As you read (or re-read) you may have noticed the entry about having the axle inspected by two independant gear and drivetrain professionals (one of them represent a very well known fabrication shop based in Denver) of which contacted [a person at] Dynatrac to site their opinion (Duffy knows who) have and will provide me with the neccessary information to resolve this matter in court.







:) the "burdon of proof" rests with Patch:) .. Good luck to both of you.

trust me I know.. :smokin:




It has escalated to this point because attempts to be civil and logical have failed. I still don't think Duffy removed the parts himself but while in possession for 5 years.. Someone did..

[NothernAZxj]

I agree, but my attorney says differently.




As you read (or re-read) you may have noticed the entry about having the axle inspected by two independant gear and drivetrain professionals (one of them represent a very well known fabrication shop based in Denver) of which contacted [a person at] Dynatrac to site their opinion (Duffy knows who) have and will provide me with the neccessary information to resolve this matter in court.





trust me I know.. :smokin:







It has escalated to this point because attempts to be civil and logical have failed. I still don't think Duffy removed the parts himself but while in possession for 5 years.. Someone did..

Good luck you will need it:D

by the way all attorny's will tell ya what ever is gonna make them the most money

[Big4x4Rides]

maybe i missed something, but isnt the housing clear of oil?? werent these shipped from dynatrac empty??? from what i understand these axles are still in same condition they were recieved????

[patchzx7r]

Good luck you will need it:D

by the way all attorny's will tell ya what ever is gonna make them the most money

With the proof i have the only use for an attorney is to consult, not prosecute for me. :smokin:

[mda]

After reading this particular thread 3 times I'd like to offer my 2-cents on the matter from a former police officer's perspective.


I think the fingerprint idea is a great idea. Oil will preserve a print with extreme accuracy and would be a great indicator as to who was tampering with the inside of the transfer case. We used corn husk oil on arrested people to obtain their prints. We rub their fingers with the oil and then roll their fingers over an optical scanner to obtain crystal clear prints. So, once again, the oil inside the transfer case will be a great tool in this case. .

If you truely read this three times then you should know it has nothing to do with a "transfer case".

[NothernAZxj]

With the proof i have the only use for an attorney is to consult, not prosecute for me. :smokin:

yeah right.................LOL

[patchzx7r]

yeah right.................LOL


:smokin: :beer::smokin:

[Narrock]

If you truely read this three times then you should know it has nothing to do with a "transfer case".

I meant differential, and you know it. Nice try smacktard.

[mda]

I meant differential, and you know it. Nice try smacktard.

Sorry you typed it twice fawktard.:rolleyes:

[KrazYJ]

so he was thinking something else...we all do it, get over it...resume argument

[carnuck]

Has the weight issue been figured out yet? I'm wondering about the "numbers ground off" thing. Could it be someone made up a "fake" Dynatrac front and swapped the whole front diff BEFORE Duffy even got it? (or while it was in his possession) Could this axle have been just a display model accidentally shipped out from Dynatrac? (someone tried to jack the display model at a recent swapmeet)
I recently sold a tcase and the buyer says it isn't what I was sold him (I took pics and have the serial number to back me up)

[truehi9]

If you go ahead with the fingerprinting maybe check the hubs also since they needed to be messed with for the axle shaft removal. Just a thought. It would sure be nice to have proof, for both sides.

[Duffster]

There was no grinding of of any sort! This was admitted in a taped conversation right after the buyer made the accusation during a three way call we had. I welcome any and all fingerprinting. The only work that was done was to repaint the housing to make it look good for the first buyer as the axles had been sitting out in the sun for quite awhile before I sold them.

Duffy

[XJ99]

alright I'v got the best Idea yet, how bout you Just send them axles to me and call It a day...:grinpimp: , sucks being a poor college student, those axles must be sweet...

so any resolution to this so far?

[Gokartergo]

This is a tough one.. But you guys are talking about $1000.00.. The way you guys are going. The only one that is going to win is the lawyers. You both are going to pay way more then $500.00 each in lawyers fees. The seller sends $500.00. to the buyer and Both of you call it a draw.

[outlaw.308]

maybe i missed something, but isnt the housing clear of oil?? werent these shipped from dynatrac empty??? from what i understand these axles are still in same condition they were recieved????

This is the question of the hour, folks. Why was oil mentioned as being in the housing? Shit, maybe someone just straight up swapped axles. Does the axle show any signs of use at all? Duff, were you gone for long periods of time with the axles just sitting outside!?! (!!!Two Dynatrac axles left to sit outside for how long?!?!) Maybe someone messed with em then.
Just a thought.:)

[Duffster]

The axles were behind a gate in an area monitored by video. The new owner admitted to breaking the seal on the housing after picking them up.

Duffy

[patchzx7r]

The axles were behind a gate in an area monitored by video. The new owner admitted to breaking the seal on the housing after picking them up.

Duffy

Wow Duffy your real quick on the uptake there..:laughing: You have to remove the diff cover to SEE THE GEARS AND LOCKER, THAT WERE MISSING of which, I removed by only removing the diff cover:shaking: . Ya fool, get a clue..

Guys like you give this sport a bad name..

[KrazYJ]

I honestly don't think it's Duff's fault at this point...

[NothernAZxj]

I honestly don't think it's Duff's fault at this point...

x2 Ive delt with him before..................have a bad taste in my mouth for the buyer though

[Duffster]

Patch,
Just keep your mouth going. Calling me names and insults are not going to prove your case only show what your really made of. But if you must go ahead and call me all the names you would like.

Duffy

[NCtoy76]

i dont know who to side with, so iam going to flip a coin, heads duffs did it, tails patchy pulling a fast one, if the coin lands on its side, the trucking driving hillbilly stole it, ok here we go ,,,,,,,,, flip,, heads duffy did it, burn him at the stake:mad3: :mad3:

[NothernAZxj]

I sold a turbo to a guy on ebay years back...............he said it was faulty (just had it rebuilt at Banks) the month before.........he told ebay it was bad and that it was unusable, ebay sided with him...........i told ebay I would refund his money as soon as I got the turbo back..............he refused to eturn it......ebay sided with him and closed my account tilll I paid him the money back...........I did and never saw the part.......I got an email from him a month or so later finding out he had put it into his friends rig and it worked perfectly...........sent the email to ebay and nothing ever happened..........this sounds and feels like the same situation all over again

[Violent91]

Ya know...I speed-read this thread and all I don't understand is:

You guys have a pair of 3k dollar axles.....and it took three people how long to figure out that it didn't have a locker/ring? This is something that should have been noticed. How many times do you grab for the pinion yoke when you move an axle? Plenty enough to figure out there isn't a ring in there.

[Al Kaholick]

http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3

in this pic you can clearly make out a pattern on the pinion, so there was a ring gear and carrier in there at some point. If the end buyer claims to have broken the seal, then one of you two knows what happened. This wasnt dynatrack or the shipper. So whoever isnt full of shit should stick to their guns.

[camsk5]

At this point if you think you have a case you should go ahead and file small claims,,,
but it will have to be done where the sale occurred.. are you willing to make the trip? filing a small claims is easy... but since you are far away you will have to pay for civil process.. to have it served
so far your costs will be about 75-100
then hotel/flight to appear in court.. lets say anohter 200

day off from work... 200

so far you into this about 500.... and if you need/or want to talk to your lawyer,, another 500... ok now youre at a grand pretty easily...

now theres the actual appearance,,, seems like you both have pretty well documented your actions... and have good reasons for your positions

the burden of proof in civil court (unlike what my esteemed colleague, an earlier poster here, said is not "beyond a resonable doubt") is actually "more likely is..than is not" a standard lower than beyond a reasonable doubt...hearsay is allowed in civil court if it is pertinent

Unfortunately with the information you both have provided if I was the the judge in this case I would NOT be able to find for the buyer because there ISNT evidence available showing culpability

Im sorry you two couldnt work it out and that there has to be such acrimony posted up... bottom line.. Buyer loses on this without further evidence,,and even with evidence and a court WIN buyer still loses because he would not receive all his costs for court/transport/hotel/long distance phone calls/attornies/ food/ lost wages from appearing

what a drag... Ive learned my lesson... insure everything... document everything...

[carnuck]

Does anyone have the route the axles went through? I'm looking into a claim someone is making on me to see if something is going on with the shipping company. They are claiming what arrived from me isn't what I sent (I have photos and use certiseal when I send stuff to prevent fake claims) It took a day longer than it was supposed to and my billing notice says it was shipped from a different address than I sent it from.

[NothernAZxj]

http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3

in this pic you can clearly make out a pattern on the pinion, so there was a ring gear and carrier in there at some point. If the end buyer claims to have broken the seal, then one of you two knows what happened. This wasnt dynatrack or the shipper. So whoever isnt full of shit should stick to their guns.

I did an experiment last night after seing the pic again............I took a front front axle carrier and ring gear out of an axle sitting in the yard. I first spun the gears to make sure lube had been distrubited,t and left it on the ground. by this morrning all the gear oil that had puddled in the axle splines had run off due to the slight angle of the shafts unsupported on the ends. also there where no drips in the oil galley behind the pinion.........just an observation but something dont appear right .

[Schmozilla]

I read this whole thread...

1) Duffy is out of the loop... fawk what your lawyer thinks, Duffy sold them to buyer number one... its buyer number one's fault for never actuly aquireing them and inspecting them before he sold them to buyer number 2...

2) Sounds to me like some ones trying to fuck someone... and the one on the receiving end is Duffy...



have a nice day.... :flipoff2:

[jasonmt]

I read this whole thread...

1) Duffy is out of the loop... fawk what your lawyer thinks, Duffy sold them to buyer number one... its buyer number one's fault for never actuly aquireing them and inspecting them before he sold them to buyer number 2...

2) Sounds to me like some ones trying to fuck someone... and the one on the receiving end is Duffy...



have a nice day.... :flipoff2:

I would have to agree, how you or your lawyer thinks Duffy is involved when you never bought anything from him is beyond me?

Duffy has been much more accommodating than I would be in this situation.

[NorcalVP]

So Did anyone ask Dynatrack what color RTV they use to seal up an axle? or if they use it at all?


One other thing, Is the right cap notched, but just put in backwards? In this photo
http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1
it sure looks like it's just installed backwards.

[actionpaintball]

FWIW: I had orange RTV on my dynatracs when they were delivered

[patchzx7r]

Duffy has been much more accommodating than I would be in this situation.

He hasn't done anything? Interesting.. :confused:

[Scrub2k]

So any update on this?

[mdill]

My best guess, from the story, is that the ARB dissapered sometime while Duffy had the axles, did he take it (I don't think so), did he check it before shipping, I don't think so, he just thought it was there and shipped it off.
When did it walk away ?? who knows, did Duffy even own the axle when it did ?? If he had already sold it and was just providing free storage, then it was not stolen from Duffy, it was stolen form buyer #1, good luck proving liability here.

Mike D.

[REDDMANIAC]

lifting a fully loaded axle, and one without the carrier(let alone an ARB and Ring gear) is pretty noticeable in my eyes. But if a lift was used... "shrug"

[biggin]

I have a suggestion to offer. All 3 of you guys bone up and split the cost of whats missing 3 ways. If it cost a grand for the parts, patch, have mike and duffy send you $333.33 a peice and you eat $333.33 and be done with it.

edit: this way all 3 of you all come out looking like men to everyone here on the board.

[welndmn]

Like other have said, Duffy is in the clear, He is only the transporter, the sale is between buyer 1 and buyer 2.

Someone pull the rotor, and see what the spindle bolts look like.
Also that carrier bearing NOT being notched means an ARB could of never been there.
Marking compound on the pinion means nothing, some gear sets are sold with compound already on them.

[Duffster]

Like I have said before It's not about the money. It's the principal! Those of you that know me, know that I can more than afford the ARB, Ring and pinion. I have done nothing and am getting my name smeared by Patch! If Patch wants to be a man then lets go to court. I would gladly spend a couple grand or whatever amount of cash to defend my name then give money to the likes of Patch.

Duffy

[patchzx7r]

Like I have said before It's not about the money. It's the principal! Those of you that know me, know that I can more than afford the ARB, Ring and pinion. I have done nothing and am getting my name smeared by Patch! If Patch wants to be a man then lets go to court. I would gladly spend a couple grand or whatever amount of cash to defend my name then give money to the likes of Patch.

Duffy


What an arrogant prick you are Duffy..:shaking:

So I guess you must think I am pursuing this because I need the money. If you wouldn't have been such a dick from the beginning and sounded even remotely sincere that you don't know what happened this would have been done a long time ago..



The front end of my jeep is being rebuilt now and when they are ready for the front diff to go in for the final time I will have the ARB (already bought the gears) to install then after parts and labor are calculated, Duffy will have his chance in court.

In the meantime..:flipoff2:

[slickrock]

What an arrogant prick you are Duffy..:shaking:

So I guess you must think I am pursuing this because I need the money. If you wouldn't have been such a dick from the beginning and sounded even remotely sincere that you don't know what happened this would have been done a long time ago..



The front end of my jeep is being rebuilt now and when they are ready for the front diff to go in for the final time I will have the ARB (already bought the gears) to install then after parts and labor are calculated, Duffy will have his chance in court.

In the meantime..:flipoff2:

Keep it up with the name calling and the paper trail. I am sure the judge will side with belligerence. He doth protest too much I think. If you don't understand that maybe this will help you out. The one that screams the loudest is usually the guilty.

[CreepyCrawler]

i been watchin this post since day 1 and havent said a word but , i dont think ya have much of a case against either the sellers .. you accepted the axles from the frieght company and accepted the condition they arrived in from them.. not till hrs later when you got home did you notice something wasnt right ... sorry to say i think your the one outta luck here

[carnuck]

No notch means the ARB was never there OR someone swapped bearing caps too when they yanked it. Is the hole there for the line to come out? Duffy have any up close pics showing the air line? THAT will cement it in my opinion.

[Duffster]

Patch,
I think people like you ruin for everyone else! I think you are doing it for the money. If you chose to call me names to get your point across then please use better ones then prick. I think your caught and you know it. I think your just trying to get money out of it. Those axles were COMPLETE when they left here. You wined about the shipping to the seller. You tried to get me to pay it. You understated the weight to the shipping company trying to scam the shipping company. In my opinion your a scammer always working an angle to your financial benifit. You could always come out to Arizona and we can meet and settle this in a different way if you really want to make your point. But I'm more than happy to meet you in court. I have yet to hear from your so called attorney. So lets put up or shut up so the board can get back to better posts!

[mysunnshine]

I guess it's time for me to put a little input into this topic since it's getting out of control. I had a chance to go out to Duffy's house to look at the Dynatrac HP 60's that he had for sale a few months ago. I missed buying the 35 spline set he had, but the other set was still available at the time. I don't remeber trying to turn the pinion, but I do remember messing with the outer yolks though. I don't recall thet they were REALLY easy to turn like the carrier was not there. The paint on the housings were sun faded and did not show any signs of being into since originally put together by Dynatrac. I didn't spend a lot of time with that set of axles since they were already sold but I was looking at the arms and E-brake stuff. I don't know if this helps the situation any but it's just my input on a bad situation. Duffy is a good guy and I just can not justify that he'd take out the center section. Anybody can look at the original threads for these axles for sale to see that I was interested in them and that this is an honest opinion of what I saw when I looked at them.

Sunshine

[GaryB]

This pic http://www.msnusers.com/miscphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1 shows the grease on the splines was pushed back and a rust pattern consistent with axles being installed and let set so that moisture build up caused rust between two contact points. The rust is only where the axle spline and gear splines would meet. I agree the pinion marks look consistent with an installed set of gears. Question is, when did it go bye bye? Just basing my info off of a few dozen sets of diffs. I have broke down, both brand new and old.

Also in patchzx7r's first post, he cut and pasted two replies together, one being Duff's and the other being the 1st owner chevota01, yet claimed they were the pallet weight claim of Duffster when it was actually the (as I read it) guesstimate of chevota01. No where did Duff lay claim to a shipping weight in that topic linked liked claimed. So how can you blame him for bad shipping quotes? If anyone knows where I can get 2 d60's with ARB's installed that weigh less than 500#'s together,let me know please :confused:


I also have had numerous (received) shipping issues. If you do not lay claim to the shipper immediately, you're SOL. You sign, you take, have a nice day. I had to eat 5 $100 racing tires that were missing out of 700 I once received. My boss knows this as well as he has had to eat a few bent light poles that were damaged in shipping, yet signed and received in good order.

Besides, if stuff was taped on the outside and gone when it got there, and the shippee has pics for proof, well DUH :flipoff2:

[patchzx7r]

Patch,
I think people like you ruin for everyone else! I think you are doing it for the money. If you chose to call me names to get your point across then please use better ones then prick. I think your caught and you know it. I think your just trying to get money out of it. Those axles were COMPLETE when they left here. You wined about the shipping to the seller. You tried to get me to pay it. You understated the weight to the shipping company trying to scam the shipping company. In my opinion your a scammer always working an angle to your financial benifit. You could always come out to Arizona and we can meet and settle this in a different way if you really want to make your point. But I'm more than happy to meet you in court. I have yet to hear from your so called attorney. So lets put up or shut up so the board can get back to better posts!


We are so past the money principal on this subject. It is about being the transaction that occured between parties and the end result. Meaning it should have not escalated this far. Keep thinking it is about the money, unlike you I don't need to brag. Let's just say I have a comfortable lifestyle and your conduct thus far is fueling this confrontation. Not $1000.00

[Duffster]

Patch your so out of touch with reality it's funny! I never bragged about any money. I'm glad your comfortable being a salesman for AutoTrader! If your so comfortable than why did you try to cheat both of the shippers and try and get me to pay your shipping! Give it up and leave it alone. Your intention in the begining was to get money out of me and discredit my name. Do I care? NO! Do I think you have made an ass out of yourself and proven your real self worth? YES!

Duffy

[patchzx7r]

Patch your so out of touch with reality it's funny! I never bragged about any money. I'm glad your comfortable being a salesman for AutoTrader! If your so comfortable than why did you try to cheat both of the shippers and try and get me to pay your shipping! Give it up and leave it alone. Your intention in the begining was to get money out of me and discredit my name. Do I care? NO! Do I think you have made an ass out of yourself and proven your real self worth? YES!

Duffy


It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that your glad Duffy, your opinion is really important.. :shaking: :shaking:

By now you know I am not going to just let this go, unlike you I don't have (edit: had) a business in which I do transactions like these every day. I would have made you remove the diff covers and take photos of everything then once on the transport truck take another photo. The first buyer was in the same position and made "rookie" moves as well i.e. shipping weights.

We can go back and forth and call each other names and make it personnal (it is nothing but 5 minutes a week for me)

I know you were in California for a while with the axles then moved and became ill somewhere in between and was absent for about a year, so I am told. You cannot honestly say that you can account for your whereabouts every day for the last 5 years let alone a pair of axles. You yourself stated you ordered most of your axles with the same dimensions and parts, thus the interchangeability of the ARB.

My 5 minutes are up..

[rsqne1]

I would have made you remove the diff covers and take photos of everything then once on the transport truck take another photo. The first buyer was in the same position and made "rookie" moves as well i.e. shipping weights.



Been watching this since day one...

You said it right there...you would (edit:and could) have asked him to remove the covers and take photos, but you didn't!!! When you bought these from the other seller, you assumed any "rookie mistakes" he had already made, such as bad shiping quotes, or in this case, "missing ARBs"...have fun in court but my vote is for Duffster!!!:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

[Duffster]

Patch (5 Minute Man) I'm happy your warm and fuzzy! I noticed you didn't bother to comment on your riches and how comfortable you were but thats okay we know where you stand on the money situation! Your still welcome to come to Az and discuss it with me. Not sure where you got your information but it's wrong. I didn't go anywhere for a year. The axles were in my possesion the whole time I moved. Its funny the owners of the other sets of axles I sold this year never had a complaint. I have plenty of time to answer your posts. So please entertain the board with your lackluster assult on my integrity. I STILL HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOUR ATTORNEY. What other briliant words of wisdom do you have to share with us this week.

Duffy

[patchzx7r]

The front end of my jeep is being rebuilt now and when they are ready for the front diff to go in for the final time I will have the ARB (already bought the gears) to install then after parts and labor are calculated, Duffy will have his chance in court.




Let me help ya Duffy..

[Duffster]

Patch,
Let Me Help You since you can't seem to focus
P-R-O-Z-A-C

[Vortec_Cruiser]

I've been following this problem from the beginning, and all I can say is that this is a sad situation. It's impossible to tell who's at fault, but I don't see either party trying to settle this amicably. :shaking:

[Gokartergo]

I've been following this problem from the beginning, and all I can say is that this is a sad situation. It's impossible to tell who's at fault, but I don't see either party trying to settle this amicably. :shaking:

And the only people that are going to win is the lawyers...:mad3:

[patchzx7r]

Patch,
Let Me Help You since you can't seem to focus
P-R-O-Z-A-C



:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[camsk5]

At this point both of you are just talking smack...

whiney smack..

take it to legal action... then report...

I think its pretty clear to anyone that dealing with any of the names involved here is not wise... unless the deal is rock solid...

close the thread til then

[Duffster]

I agree at this point. I have been guilty of the smack also. I will message the Admin about closing this thread until legal action has been taken and see what he thinks. I will refrain from posting anymore at this point!

Duffy

[GeoB]

Since everybody else has spoken...

Matt, I am trying to be fair to you and Duffy. I am responding to what has been written, I have no polarization either way.

Duffy sold the axles 2+ years ago. He receives the money. He hears no complaints for 2 years. To blame Duffy now is a little late. If the ring gear was stolen in transit when HE got the product, how can he claim restitution now? Duffy can't, it is too late. It is too late for the eastern fella to blame Duffy for ANYthing.

Would it be a hardship for him to come out and continually inspect the goods? Sure! But that is not Duffy's fault. If the fella didn't trust him, he could have had the articles moved to another secure location out of Duffy's reach. He didn't. He accepted the risk of what ever Duffy's security arrangements might leave.

If the eastern fella made representations to Matt(?) about these axles, these are HIS promises and not Duffy's. East guy must take responsibility for his sale, and any promises he made about it. Is that un-clear? To make factual statements about the axles to a prospective buyer 2 years later, he *could* have satisfied himself that the axles were exactly as he had been told. What he promised is his, not Duffy's, responsibility. Yes, Duffy has responsibility for what he promised to East, but nothing toward Matt.

Duffy was accomdating to Matt, in taking time during a critical period to load them for him. Wonder if he has been appreciated for this?

It sounds like Matt is risking being made a fool of, for accusing Duffy of getting phone calls that he did/did not receive. All Matt knows is that somebody apparently told HIM that the calls had been made. Did they have a vested interest in saying the calls were made, whether they were or not? I think so. Matt has chosen whom he will believe, and accused Duffy in public of being a liar. Factually right or wrong, it is still reckless with the truth, because of the possibility of being wrong. And in reading his further postings, how can that not color everybody's judgment? How can I tell a factual statement of Matt's from one he merely assumes is factual?

The buyer didn't send someone to check them. He doesn't KNOW their condition. Does he get a guarantee from Duffy that his site is secure? Does he know that Duffy has a life and won't be sitting on the axles every minute of everyday? Does he ask Duffy to go out and check the axles?

But I can't see how Matt can want additional shipping money from Duffy, Duffy didn't sell them to him!

If Matt is accusing Duffy of theft, then he should proceed like one would with any theft. I think unrelated issues have become intertwined in this discussion, and should carefully be separated.

I can certainly understand everyboy's concerns here, what a bad situation! Any one of us can end up in a situation like this. This is what fuels the interest I think.

[truehi9]

From reading the first sentences in the first post I am under the impression (but could very well be wrong) that they were Duffsters axles that sat for 2 years before being sold to the eastern fella.

How long did the eastern fella own them before they were resold to Matt?

How long did the axles sit at Duffsters before being sold to the eastern fella?

Also no sides taken here.

[InstaGator]

Would'nt 50#s of diff be noticable on a shipping tare? What does the shipping reciept say from Dynatrac and what does Dynatrac say it should be and what does the last reciept say the weight was?

[truehi9]

You'd sure think 50 pounds would be noticeable by a scale although when we send something truck freight the shipper just asks us what the pallet weighs. We don't have a scale but try to calculate (guess) as close as we can. After the pallet leaves here it doesn't ever seem to get weighed so an exact number doesn't seem to be know. If the exact weights are written somewhere the case is solved. Does anyone have these weights?

[WVkrawler]

Duffster my prayers go out to you and your family, I too had a sick infant son that required surgery after surgery, but he is almost three now no more surgery and happy and healthy as ever. I know the worry and mental anguish that you and your wife are going through.

Mr. Patch you are the definition of a asshat:flipoff2: you are one in every sense of the word. If you are such a well weathered businessman as you suggest you would of checked these axles out at the pick-up terminal before you signed your name and took them away. Lets face facts you couldn't make it as a car salesman so you do a job any monkey could do and sell advertising to car dealerships, hell... I give way more credit to the mentally challenged individuals who assemble pre-fabbed picnic tables. This actually requires more mental capacity to accomplish than what byou do for a living:flipoff2: :flipoff2: You need a total attitude adjustment....

Duffster pursue this dickwad in court and snap a photo of his face when the judge laughs at it...If this was me in this situation I would've bought a ticket to denver to bluntly remove this idiots kneecaps and hook him up with an interview to help assmeble prefabbed picnic tables so atleast he would have something positive to contribute to society.

[440-fide Ramcharger]

Yeah, I called it on post #7 :D :D :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Sounds to me like you should tell him to pound sand.

Unless you never spun the pinion. You would know for sure if there was no ring gear and carrier.

Once it left your place with HIS shipper, his problem.

IMHO of course, Mark

[WVkrawler]

All the Duffster did was act as an agent for the East coast seller "free of charge" this does not make him directly responsible to "baby sit" THESE AXLES 24/7. Once the Duffster fulfilled his self induced responsibility of getting the axles on the truck is were it ended for him. Any court of law will see through Mr. Patches questionable documentation and opinions of "experts" the judge probably has no idea what a dynatrac 60 differential is and has no need to go through the education process of learning what goes where etc. The Judge will ask Mr. Patch if he inspected the axles upon personal pick up at the freight depot, and when he says he made a "rookie mistake" he/she will say "sorry-case dismissed, next case please"

[ryan22re]

Meaning it should have not escalated this far.

Amen.

I just read this whole thread and man, you must be the dumbest focker on this site. Why didn't you ask for pics, inside and out, before you bought them and after they were loaded on the truck? After all, you bought them from a guy that had never laid his hands on them, from a guy you didn't know.

It must be nice being you.

I'd love to be well off enough throw $6k around like that. I try to stay out of stuff like this, but I just can't get over how blind and stupid you seem to have walked into this whole deal....

You know what they say about a fool and his money.

[krb]

Is this the longest running dispute that has been here?

[Propane]

I would have inspected them like buying a used car. 6K hurts.

[Myanarchy]

anything new:confused:

[The Duffster]

As of today I have heard Nothing from him or his Attorney. It's been 7 months so far and all I have heard or seen is the posts he has placed on here. He said he would take me to court after his axles were in his vehicle but nothing yet.

Duffy