So I installed my new Hugh's Rad, 4 row High Efficiency. Can you say tight fit. I have a large electric puller fan and have no more then a 1/2" of clearance. Not enough in my book. I'm thinking of installing a new 4-bolt water pump and switching to a fixed fan.

Question, do I need new pulley's? I see no provisions for mounting a fan once I convert, I have a triple pulley on the water pump. Thoughts on this? Oh to add a little fun, I hacked the threaded section and center pin off the outer pulley for the 'big-nut' clutch fan.

I was able to pull part numbers from BB, put found no info on the actual attachment of the fan.

Joe

PICS?

:flipoff2: Sorry, just getting ya back...

Originally posted by Scout Dude
PICS?

:flipoff2: Sorry, just getting ya back...

Not until I see them new beadlocks :flipoff2:

Aw..geez..someone else posted pics of them (With better tires too!) Do you really have to see them with my POS swampers?:flipoff2: :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by jdjanda

Question, do I need new pulley's? I see no provisions for mounting a fan once I convert, I have a triple pulley on the water pump. Thoughts on this? Oh to add a little fun, I hacked the threaded section and center pin off the outer pulley for the 'big-nut' clutch fan.

Joe

I think the pulleys will swap over. I can't remember if I used the pulleys from my big-nut WP when I swapped to the 4-bolt or if I used some I had lying around. If I used other pulleys it was because getting 'em off the old WP was too much of a PITA. :D

They should all be the same tho'.
Fixed fan depth will vary depending on what you use for spacers. If you run too short of a spacer, it hits the crank p/s pulley though (unless your p/s setup doesn't use the bolt-on lower pulley).

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I think the pulleys will swap over. I can't remember if I used the pulleys from my big-nut WP when I swapped to the 4-bolt or if I used some I had lying around. If I used other pulleys it was because getting 'em off the old WP was too much of a PITA. :D

I can bet I'll need new pulleys, looks like a trip is in order to local junkyard.

Joe

will one of you guys humor a newbie for a second and tell me what 4-bolt water pump you are converting to and why. (is it higher flow, or just too fit standard fans)

Originally posted by Hayraker
will one of you guys humor a newbie for a second and tell me what 4-bolt water pump you are converting to and why. (higher flow obviously) Thinkin it might help solve a lot of my problems.

No :flipoff2:























I've eliminated my big-bolt clutch fan, actually the trip into the radiator eliminated for me. If you have the big nut clutch fan you cannot use a standard bolt on fan. I want to swap out my pump so I can install a standard fan and gain clearance. I'll also need to build a new fan shroud.

Joe

Originally posted by Hayraker
will one of you guys humor a newbie for a second and tell me what 4-bolt water pump you are converting to and why. (is it higher flow, or just too fit standard fans)

Like Joe was waying..

The "threaded" WP uses the "big nut" clutch and fan.

This "big nut" is the same big-nut used on new Ford PSD's.. it's a great clutch fan setup, medium duty kinda stuff... and priced accordingly. $250+ IIRC for a new clutch when the one you have fails.

The "4-bolt" (usually an 8-bolt, in reality) WP will take either a 4-bolt Clutch, or a 4-bolt fixed fan.

That's where the 8-bolt WP comes into play.. it has both patterns drilled in it. :D

You can also run a fixed fan with the big-nut WP. My Travelall came with such a setup.. I don't have it any more though. I dropped into 2nd and stood on it while foolin' around with some ricer or something and the fan promptly tore free from the waterpump and sailed through the radiator.

Yeah, that'll make you feel stupid.

Here is a pic of the water pump for use with the big-nut clutch fan. Notice no provision for mounting a fixed fan.

Here is the 4-bolt water pump

When I switched to the 4-bolt pump I used the same pulleys.

Just went out to look at the racer, stock 76 304. Three pulleys on the crank two on the water pump- front to PS, back two to water pump and alt.

Originally posted by makkat
When I switched to the 4-bolt pump I used the same pulleys.

Just went out to look at the racer, stock 76 304. Three pulleys on the crank two on the water pump- front to PS, back two to water pump and alt.

Thank's for the info, I looked last night and it appears that the pulleys attach to the outer flange on the pump so I should be fine.


Soon to be for sale, one large electric fan. :)

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


Thank's for the info, I looked last night and it appears that the pulleys attach to the outer flange on the pump so I should be fine.


Soon to be for sale, one large electric fan. :)

Joe

How much $$$ and how many CFM? :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


How much $$$ and how many CFM? :D

If I remember correctly it's around 2,200 CFM. Largest one Kragens sold. I paid about $80.00 new.

I'll post some pics when it's out and we can work out a price.

Looks like this

Thanks for the info, didn't realize there were 2 types, I have the 4 bolt with a fixed fan, are there any Higher output pumps to be had, I'm thinkin about moving my radiator out of the engine compartment, but I don't know about that pump, Maybe mine is just a little weak.

When are we goin whelin Jdjanda.

Originally posted by Abba
When are we goin whelin Jdjanda.

Abba, glad to see your back on the board. :cool:

Curtis told us you swore off the board for Lent.

Anyword on Top Truck?

The next trip I know for sure is to CalRocs in May, but I'm Jones'n for another trip, maybe an overnighter to Frank Raines. I can get you in trouble there :D

Joe

I went to Cal Rocks. Me and Mike Ladd came in 16th in a Sami. I'm going to the Reno to compete in the Sami with Mike, I'm saving the Scout to see what happens with top truck.

Originally posted by Hayraker
Thanks for the info, didn't realize there were 2 types, I have the 4 bolt with a fixed fan, are there any Higher output pumps to be had, I'm thinkin about moving my radiator out of the engine compartment, but I don't know about that pump, Maybe mine is just a little weak.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no "high flow" water pumps (or high pressure oil pumps..) available.

What makes you think the pump is weak?

Originally posted by tsm1mt


To the best of my knowledge, there are no "high flow" water pumps (or high pressure oil pumps..) available.

What makes you think the pump is weak?


I don't really know that it is weak, but I have tried almost everything I can think of to cool this thing.

Here is what I have done so far

new thermostat
tranny cooler
vents in hood
remover inner fenders
auxillary electric push fan
radiator flush

Next on my list

have radiator rodded out or replace it
remove more sheetmetal from engine compartment
bigger tranny cooler with fan
engine oil cooler

If I get the temp regulated before I get down the list, I will stop there, if that still doesn't get it, I will move the radiator out of the engine compartment and use copper tubing or something that will dissipate heat to run the coolant thru. Wanting to move the radiator, battery, etc. to the back and remove front clip anyway to help lighten up the front.


I did see a high pressure oil pump for IH v8's in a parts catalog, but out beside the part number it said "(exc. scout and p/u)

Originally posted by Hayraker

If I get the temp regulated before I get down the list, I will stop there, if that still doesn't get it, I will move the radiator out of the engine compartment and use copper tubing or something that will dissipate heat to run the coolant thru. Wanting to move the radiator, battery, etc. to the back and remove front clip anyway to help lighten up the front.


I did see a high pressure oil pump for IH v8's in a parts catalog, but out beside the part number it said "(exc. scout and p/u)

Just how hot does it run?

My 345 has been getting hot at idle. Just put a new RobertShaw thermostat in and noticed the lower rad hose leaking.. replaced it and topped things off.. last trail ride it didn't seem to overheat at idle any more, but we'll see.

I'm running a 3-row Hughes High-eff radiator, shroud, "new" (when I built the motor 2 years ago) fan clutch and water pump and fan.

In Moab the summer after I put the motor in, I was running around with the hood propped open slightly and still had my windshield washer re-routed to spray on the radiator like a cool-down bottle.

Not fun.. I've been thinking of scooping the hood to expel hot air. Might also help with my surging problems when it gets good n' hot.

I'm hoping it's just the moly rings still seating and it'll cool down when it's done being broken in. :D

It runs pretty hot at times. I don't ever have a problem until I get on one of the heavily wooded trails (almost all of them) at Clayton. Not much air flow in the woods on a 100 degree day with 60 percent humidity.

I have 2 4"x8" holes cut in my hood with air conditioner vents mounted in them, it helped some, but I still have to stop and open the hood every once in a while to let it cool.

It is a 345, fixed pitch fan, thermostat from Napa, no shroud(I have one now to put on),727Heat Maker

I think alot of my problem is the radiator, and since I sprung a couple of water leaks my last time out it is a good time to pull it and rework or replace it.

I would like to get it running cool enough that I don't have to constantly worry about checking the guage and raising the hood.

I guess part of my problem is that I am forcing a 25 year old TF727 to push 33"swampers on 3.55 gears, but I will remedy that problem shortly. Thinkin 7.17 in the 60's

Originally posted by Hayraker
It runs pretty hot at times. I don't


What kind of #s on a good mechanical gauge? My factory gauge will fluctuate as much as 1/4 scale day to day - while the mechanical and *numerical* gauge stays the same.

i.e. one day 1/2 scale is 180deg.. the next 1/4 scale is 180deg.

Same with the oil pressure..


It is a 345, fixed pitch fan, thermostat from Napa, no shroud(I have one now to put on),727Heat Maker


Get a new thermostat from AUTOZONE. You want the Robert Shaw unit, it's $5.

The Stant NAPA sold you is *NOT* a "direct replacement" for the OE RobertShaw.

Many people with low-RPM cooling problems have solved their problems by changing to the RobertShaw 'stat.

IIRC, there's even a 160-deg unit if you really want to try and keep it from building up heat.. 160, 180, 195.

I just put the 195 in both my trail rig and my GF's 800.

With the soft-top I wanted as much heat as I could get.. even with the early 4-row heater core installed.

Get a new thermostat from AUTOZONE. You want the Robert Shaw unit, it's $5.

The Stant NAPA sold you is *NOT* a "direct replacement" for the OE RobertShaw.

Many people with low-RPM cooling problems have solved their problems by changing to the RobertShaw 'stat.


Thanks Tom, I'll change it out when I put the radiator back in, I found my leak today, the seam is leaking at the tank, I guess it started coming loose on the same rock that crushed my rockers and broke my air fitting on the york.

I actually thought about the radiator when it all happened because it had been running hot all day, so I had been watching the temp pretty close, I dropped off of the v-notch rock, bottomed out on both frame rails and rockers, BAM!!, then I heard a loud hiss of pressurized air, and my floorboards were covered with water, All I could think of was get to the bottom of the hill and see what the hell just happened,

So I Baja'd it off the rock and down about 150 yds to where I could check it out. Well of course the hiss was from the air line, and the water (which was cold:rolleyes: ) came from my upside down cooler.:flipoff2:

I just fitted my Hughes 4-Core HE radiator to sort out some placement issues with my tranny cooler. I had about 3/4" of clearance between the clutch and radiator. I did however want to isolate the radiator more from flex related injuries so I had a radiator shop move the mounting brackets back towards the engine 1" so I could put some rubber isolators between the inner fender and the brackets. Total cost was $30. It might be cheaper to move the brackets, than sell and change, just a thought.

Dirk

http://www.jpeater.com

Originally posted by jdjanda
Largest one Kragens sold. I paid about $80.00 new.

Now that looks familiar. We put one on Chris's rig, works sweet!

We've also used dual 10" to cover more radiator surface area, the dual 10" cooled quicker (you can tell by how many times they cycle), but they both keep the temp at the bottom end of the spectrum. Which is where it should be!