I've heard a lot about how weak and cheesy these are. Some people have said that they're sealed bearings with no way to grease them. Over the weekend I was in a couple of junkyards and noticed several axles like this, all with the hubs gone, and most missing the knuckles too. Well, they actually DO have a grease zerk. One guy said that he had a '77 pickup like mine, and ran it for some incredible number of miles without bearing trouble.

I'd like to know how many people who have had trouble with these actually greased them regularly. Is the issue grease, or big tires and offroad pounding? (I'm sure both, but would really like to know how much of each.)

Getting ready to convert from manual fore-aft steering to power crossover, and I have two options. On the truck now we have original Dodge fulltime hubs and bearings, which haven't given me any trouble yet, and flattop knuckles both sides. I also have a set of GM flattop knuckles with the large-bearing spindles; to go to 8-lug I'll need hubs and rotors, backing plates, calipers and pads, brake hoses, etc. Close to $500 if I've got to get the rest new, and that's all that's available now. I'd been planning to drill and tap the GM passenger-side knuckle, and do GM knuckles-out at the same time as the crossover/hi-steer. However, if these hubs and bearings will actually work for a while, maybe I'll just use them - and put a Detroit in the rear instead.

So is it a waste of time to drill & tap the Dodge knuckle, or a waste of money to do the GM outers?

they do have a bad rep, but i think with proper maintinance, regualr greasing, etc. they will give good service. any 44 axle with large tires is going to have a faster than normal appetite for wheel bearings, it's just the price they come at. with the fulltimes, in most cases you have to buy a whole new hub assembly when the bearings go bad. a tip i've heard on the old fulltimes is to use marine grade grease, the kind used on boats and boat trailer wheel bearings. it doesn't break down as easily from heat and is much more rresistant to water.

Yeah, the issue of what KIND of grease is another whole can of worms. I wonder how often people - those few who do know to grease these - actually get a gun full of high-temp disc brake wheelbearing grease (or a grease suitable for that application) instead of just grabbing the gun full of chassis lube and shooting THAT into the bearings?

Lloyd I ran 36s and 38s on a 78 long bed with plenty horses and full time 5 lug for 14 years and only replaced 2 sets of bearings. Marine high heat grease is the way to go. I greased the bearings. [pull wheel, grease fitting through hole in hub as you know] every time out. This was a mud runner and puller. The trick to getting them to last is correct grease and proper assembly. The only inner seals that work are the 3 piece seals from the dealer. Others, National, NAPA, etc. are 1 piece and we never could get them to stay in place. The other and most important item to watch is the bearing retainer. If the ears in which the 6 retainer holes are drilled aren't trued or re machined before each reassembly you will not retain proper preload on the outer bearing races. About once a month I pulled the cotter pin from the axle stub and checked torque. Min. 250# plus whatever it takes to line up the cotter pin hole in the castelated nut and repin. Built a few hundred of these outfits when I ran the service dept at the local dealer. Be glad to help out if I can.

Shit, I wish there was a way to service my unit bearings (97 Ram 1500). No fittings anywhere and $200 a side. Mine did last 115,000 miles though, but they were shot by then.

wow, 200 bucks?? where are you getting prices from?? i just got a hub assembly for my 99 for 140/ i didn;t end up needing it, turned out to just be a loose bolt on the assembly... let me know if you'd like it cheaper than 200 before i tak it back.

and I wanna know how the milemarker hubs compare to the factory ones. anyone know?

Originally posted by Old Syko
Lloyd I ran 36s and 38s on a 78 long bed with plenty horses and full time 5 lug for 14 years and only replaced 2 sets of bearings. Marine high heat grease is the way to go. I greased the bearings. [pull wheel, grease fitting through hole in hub as you know] every time out. This was a mud runner and puller. The trick to getting them to last is correct grease and proper assembly. The only inner seals that work are the 3 piece seals from the dealer. Others, National, NAPA, etc. are 1 piece and we never could get them to stay in place. The other and most important item to watch is the bearing retainer. If the ears in which the 6 retainer holes are drilled aren't trued or re machined before each reassembly you will not retain proper preload on the outer bearing races. About once a month I pulled the cotter pin from the axle stub and checked torque. Min. 250# plus whatever it takes to line up the cotter pin hole in the castelated nut and repin. Built a few hundred of these outfits when I ran the service dept at the local dealer. Be glad to help out if I can.

Damn, I'm glad to hear from someone who has experience with these and knows how to make them live. Guess I'll drill and tap that Dodge knuckle after all. I was fortunate enough to latch onto a military truck (M880) that only had 40K on the clock when I got it. I'm sure this is the original mileage, and there's no evidence that the hubs have ever been disturbed. It's about due for another oil change, so I'll retorque the big nuts and get a new grease gun (just for those wheelbearings). Since I'm sure they've never been apart, I'd guess that the preload is probably OK now. If I ever do need to replace bearings, is it acceptable to carefully draw-file the retainer, or should it by fly-cut? How about a good flat with some paper? Sounds like I'd be better off to try to leave the bearing in the knuckle when I machine this thing, so I'd better try to figure out another way to grab it than bolting a plate to the retainer flange. Great info; thanks a bunch!

On my 95 Ram my hub bearings went bad and I paid $140. for the both. 6 months later and I think they may be going bad again. I am not sure yet, I just noticed last night when I pulled into the drive in my car I noticed the Rams tires are starting to aim out at the bottom AGAIN !!! I'll have to jack it up and check it out. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by RufusTheRam
wow, 200 bucks?? where are you getting prices from?? i just got a hub assembly for my 99 for 140/ i didn;t end up needing it, turned out to just be a loose bolt on the assembly... let me know if you'd like it cheaper than 200 before i tak it back.

Well that was the average online price I found. I could have bought the $150 one I found or the $250 one I found. I have a contact that owed me so ended up getting the $250 ones for wholesale ($84 each). The $250 ones were for ABS rigs (althoung there is no difference between the ABS and non-ABS as far as I know. I am running an ABS outer with the non-ABS hub on the pass side of my truck since I thrashed mine and it works fine.

Lloyd

If you need to disassemble the hub and rotor from the knuckle it's not a problem. Remove the caliper, caliper mount, axle nut and washer. Go through the grease hole in the hub with a 3/8 12 pt socket on a 6 in. extension and remove the 6 bearing retainer bolts. As you probably won't have the special puller you can use a good sized 3 jaw mounted to 3 lugs and press off of the end of the axle. The hub, bearings, retainer, and outer seal will come off as an assy. To reinstall clean rtv off retainer and knuckle face, add new black rtv and reverse the procedure. Make sure all 6 retainer bolts are started well before tightening, grease as necessary and go wheelin. Resurface the retainer only when replacing bearings. All parts must be assembled to hub and rotor before anything goes into knuckle. :zzz: :zzz: Sounds like a lot but once you've done it you can replace bearings in about 30 min. a side. BTW bearings are about 55 bucks per wheel. Hope I didn't bore ya.

another problem is how thin the knuckle is around the bearing. cracked three knuckles, leading to an out of round hole and a thrashed bearing. i think the service you have to do isn't worth just swapping to a part time setup. just my .02:beer:

Ah, I understand. That makes it simple again :) . Do you know how those six bolts are indexed relative to the balljoint axis? I'd hope that something is parallel to it; off a few degrees one way or another would be good to know about before I cut the plate to mount the knuckle for milling.

I really don't want a part-time setup, at least in the sense of manual lockouts. If I do go to GM outers I have drive flanges to use. Six months of the year there's so much snow and ice here (8200 ft) that everyone with hubs just leaves them locked in all the time; and the other six months there's enough steep stuff (we live about a mile off the pavement) that you end up needing to get out and lock them about every other time you drive it. I've got a 205 to use with the front half of the 203, so I may go to part-time in that sense, but I want to be able to get power to all 4 without getting out of the thing. I'd probably just run the 203 as-is, but it pops out of "loc" at the worst possible times, and could really use some more reduction.

Originally posted by Lloyd
I'd probably just run the 203 as-is, but it pops out of "loc" at the worst possible times, and could really use some more reduction.

That's what a bungie cord is for. Rap it around the shifter and hook it to the dash ;):D:P


Listen to pop he knows his $hit.

if you like the fulltime so much, why dont you get a 203/203 doubbler.. I plan on putting one together just because I have 2 203's and dont have a 205.

and maybe i missed it, but how strong are the milemarker part time hubs.. only reason i ask is because I already have them.. aka: installed when I bought the truck.

I can't tell you about the Milemarker hubs for Dodge. I've seen a lot of other people on the board post that they're running them with CTM joints (and carrying a spare set of hubs) because the Milemarkers have a lifetime warranty and with CTM's they're the weakest link in a 44. Kind of a hub fuse with free replacement.

I hadn't really considered a 203/203 doubler because I've heard so much crap about the back half of the 203 - chain drive, diff won't stay locked, locking ring weak, prone to blowing up all the time, etc. But all the new cases are chain drive, and it's entirely possible that all the noise about this case is something like those fulltime front hubs and bearings.

Perhaps Old Syko will give us the real scoop on the NP203?

Lloyd

Been off the board a few days. What did I miss?

203 tcase, no problem

In 14 years I only went through 2. Not bad considering the treatment. The only mod necessary is to do away with the planetary set in the rear and replace it with a solid gear. Makes it strictly shiftable 2wd or 4wd no more full time. Give me a day or so and I'll give you part #s and instructions. [having puter problems. Syko's on the case] This gear change and as syko said about the bungee are all that's necessary for a long life. Anyone who's had repeated chain trouble in the past just needs instruction in proper install. This chain will take a lot of $h1t when put toghether right. The gear change is 60 or 70 $ in parts and takes 30 min. Let me know if you want the gear change info. :question:

Originally posted by Old Syko
Let me know if you want the gear change info. :question:

Yes, please! :D There's no substitute for gathering information and exploring all the options. The conversions I've seen from Milemarker are either a set of crown gears that lock the differential, or a replacement shaft that has a reverse-spider pattern in it to mate with the existing rear output shaft, thus replacing the differential. It sounds like you may be talking about something different.

I may still use the 205, since the overall size of the ORD doubler is the same as a 203 and it gives more gearing options; sounds like the net effect of the gear change you're describing is functionally about the same as a regular part-time case. Plus the 205 can be set up twin-stick, which adds another set of advantages. Of course the down side is that it'll cost close to a kilobuck.