I'm looking for some input on coilover spring rates from some of you guys. looking to see what you are running or what you would suggest for a project i am working on here in the shop.

I need some direction on the Front coil springs. the rear is 4 link w/ reg. Coils and shocks.

specs:

1979 Scout II
stock 345 v-8
727
D20
Full width Dodge D44 front with 37 MTR's on beadlocks



Using 14" Walker Evans shocks up front........looking for 4-6" of up and 8-10 of down...in that ballpark anyway.

what are you running w/ the 345 or similar set up?

thanks

I'm looking for some input on coilover spring rates from some of you guys. looking to see what you are running or what you would suggest for a project i am working on here in the shop.
thanks

Have you weighed the Scout?

Need to know at least the front and rear axle weights, if not the 4 corners independently.

the ih mills are HEAVY SOAB'S! plan around this:shaking:

the ih mills are HEAVY SOAB'S! plan around this:shaking:

yep

that is why i am asking what you guys have run....with success.

the truck is not suspended in the front yet....so weighing it is kinda out. the front sheet metal is gone. front is tubed and we are hanging the hood, grill and, fenders back on it.

i guess if i get an estimated weight of the 345, i can guess-timate the rest pretty accurately.

my thiking was if there is someone running a full bodied or better yet..... a tubed 78-80 scout II with 14" coilovers ....AND they like the springs they have...at least that gives me a starting point on this rig.

anyone?

i guess if i get an estimated weight of the 345, i can guess-timate the rest pretty accurately.



Depending on what you have for accesories, figure 750 to be safe.

the ih mills are HEAVY SOAB'S! plan around this:shaking:

LOL.

My Scout weighs ~4000lbs with driver. About 2400lbs on the nose, 1600lbs on the tail.

Now that I have my air bumps, I've been looking into coilovers.

14" stroke, 4-6" up-travel, ~10 of down-travel.. given my 2400lbs..

I need 1200lbs of spring over the 10" I've compressed the springs at ride-height.. 120lbs/inch would get me there.

..but that's probably over simplified. :D

I'd need to go dual-rate, and up the rate after that first 10", since putting just the front weight on one tire instead of two would bottom the shock out easily, so I'd want the spring rate to increase to accomodate holding up 2400lbs on one corner without using more than the 4" I have left. :)

yep

the truck is not suspended in the front yet....so weighing it is kinda out. the front sheet metal is gone. front is tubed and we are hanging the hood, grill and, fenders back on it.


Is the link suspension done, just no shocks/springs yet? Substitute a hunk of tube for the springs, and tack it in place.. then you can weigh it.


i guess if i get an estimated weight of the 345, i can guess-timate the rest pretty accurately.


I'd say 700-ish.

Tom, if you go coils on that frame of your's I'm going to smack you. Start FRESH@

the ih mills are HEAVY SOAB'S! plan around this:shaking:

yeah that silly water neck nust be at least 100# by itself :flipoff2:

seriosly.......tsm1mt........that is helpful. I guess i'll post a pic of the truck tomm when i get to the shop. that should be helpful to at least see what it looks like.

i know there is no way yhis will way 2400 up front. I would geuss no more than 1400-1600 both sprung and unsprung.

Snoopy............what are you running up front?

There was a guy on the BB that was looking and found that 250lbs over 350lbs front and 200lbs over250lbs in back worked well

Here's the thread
http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36611&highlight=coilover

i know there is no way yhis will way 2400 up front. I would geuss no more than 1400-1600 both sprung and unsprung.


I'll be shocked if it's that light.

My 4,000lbs Scout is full width, full frame, 19gal tank, 31" tires (15.50 Terras on steel wheels in back, aluminums and 10.50s up front).

I have no inner fenders, no interior, no roof, no windshield, no tailgate, no doors.. one seat. Hood lightened, no heater, no dash, etc.

More or less a bare tub, frame, 4 corner leaf springs, full widths, and what looks like a front clip.. that, n' a rollcage.

And I'm at 4,000lbs.

The 304/727/D20 combo is probably really close to 1,000lbs. Most of that weight is up front.

Tom, if you go coils on that frame of your's I'm going to smack you. Start FRESH@

I'm on the prowl for a new frame. This one has seen too much abuse.

Preferably one without a useable Scout still attached to it (I don't want to feel guilty, and the the good tub and frame I have lying around, already stripped, is too nice for this purpose, and is earmarked for my trail rig eventually).

Continue to flog the current chassis while the new frame sits in the shop and I build it. That's the idear, anyhow.

work ont he up-welds and just build a frame.
:) Some 3/16th 3x4 should do the job nicely

I say TSM is very accurate, my fiberglass SSII was 2400 front, 2000 rear with a 345/727

work ont he up-welds and just build a frame.
:) Some 3/16th 3x4 should do the job nicely

Matkins is just down the road.. :)

I need to retain a stock manufacture frame for my class... if I were to hand-build a "frame" it'd just be a tube-chassis instead... and if I ever wanted to play with the big boys I'd have no choice but to play with the *BIG* boys.. since I'd wind up with a "Trophy Scout".. that'd never run with the rest of the crowd.

Besides, a 3/16" frame would just be heavier than the stock frame, and weight is the big problem. I think a properly reinforced 1/8" stock frame - beefed up BEFORE the stress fractures and fatgue sets in - can be more than adequate.

Back on topic.. I'm anxious for those pictures coming tomorrow. :)

work ont he up-welds and just build a frame.
:) Some 3/16th 3x4 should do the job nicely

Matkins is just down the road.. :)

I need to retain a stock manufacture frame for my class... if I were to hand-build a "frame" it'd just be a tube-chassis instead... and if I ever wanted to play with the big boys I'd have no choice but to play with the *BIG* boys.. since I'd wind up with a "Trophy Scout".. that'd never run with the rest of the crowd.

Besides, a 3/16" frame would just be heavier than the stock frame, and weight is the big problem. I think a properly reinforced 1/8" stock frame - beefed up BEFORE the stress fractures and fatgue sets in - can be more than adequate.

Back on topic.. I'm anxious for those pictures coming tomorrow. :)

work ont he up-welds and just build a frame.
:) Some 3/16th 3x4 should do the job nicely

Matkins is just down the road.. :)

I need to retain a stock manufacture frame for my class... if I were to hand-build a "frame" it'd just be a tube-chassis instead... and if I ever wanted to play with the big boys I'd have no choice but to play with the *BIG* boys.. since I'd wind up with a "Trophy Scout".. that'd never run with the rest of the crowd.

Besides, a 3/16" frame would just be heavier than the stock frame, and weight is the big problem. I think a properly reinforced 1/8" stock frame - beefed up BEFORE the stress fractures and fatgue sets in - can be more than adequate.

Back on topic.. I'm anxious for those pictures coming tomorrow. :)

Howmany frame you want Tom?? I got atleast two of them kicking around.... maybe a third soon.....


:D :flipoff2: :D

Howmany frame you want Tom?? I got atleast two of them kicking around.... maybe a third soon.....


:D :flipoff2: :D

Bring one or two to the JI Bash and I'll find room on the trailer. :D

Here are some spy pics I took a few weeks ago (planning similar reconstruction on the front of the BIG Scout). Prolly will let Matt at Independent4X do the fab work as he seems to be alot better at it than me....
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/DSC00058.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/DSC00056.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/DSC00054.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/DSC00053.jpg

Sean

Might :D


will depend on if I trailer, drive or even make it....


depends on whether the Mrs will let me out of the house that long ;)

HOLLY BIG PICS SLIP!!


can you edit and re-size those a bit so they fit on my screen!! :eek:


I like some of your idea though..... might just have to stee..... er... borrow them :D

HOLLY BIG PICS SLIP!!


can you edit and re-size those a bit so they fit on my screen!! :eek:


I like some of your idea though..... might just have to stee..... er... borrow them :D
Just set your monitor resolution to 1600x1200. They fit on my screen just fine, with room to spare! :flipoff2:

Sean,

Is that the replacement for the old scout? The reason I ask is that I don't see any RockWells!

nah,,,, that is not sean's scout...that is another one of my customer/wheeling budy's trucks. I've been building this for a while........started at the back.....getting the front end done. i'd be happy to post additional pics and specs if anyone is interested.

here is a more "reasonable" pic......for the scrolling impared :p

nah,,,, that is not sean's scout...that is another one of my customer/wheeling budy's trucks. I've been building this for a while........started at the back.....getting the front end done. i'd be happy to post additional pics and specs if anyone is interested.

here is a more "reasonable" pic......for the scrolling impared :p
Better, thanks :flipoff2:


I like it, looks good!! :beer: I see some ideas........ :D

here is another....better idea of what it looks like:

here ya go.....old school........Day 1 ....spring over, stock leaves........complete w/ a D&C cage inside

http://www.independent4x.com/Images/SCOUTDAY1.jpg


good idea of the sheet metal

http://www.independent4x.com/Images/scoutMOCKup.jpg

.

here is a more "reasonable" pic......for the scrolling impared :p

You know me....everything I do is extra large! (I have to compensate somehow.)

Dig it. :beer:

I'll be shocked if it's that light.

My 4,000lbs Scout is full width, full frame, 19gal tank, 31" tires (15.50 Terras on steel wheels in back, aluminums and 10.50s up front).

I have no inner fenders, no interior, no roof, no windshield, no tailgate, no doors.. one seat. Hood lightened, no heater, no dash, etc.

More or less a bare tub, frame, 4 corner leaf springs, full widths, and what looks like a front clip.. that, n' a rollcage.

And I'm at 4,000lbs.

The 304/727/D20 combo is probably really close to 1,000lbs. Most of that weight is up front.





ok so now that you se a pic of it.............i'm guessing it is less than 4000....what do you think?

i'd say in the 3500 or less range..........but i still think i will spec the coilovers on the stiffer side up front....that drivetrain is a lot of weight to be throwing around on the trail.

we'll weigh it when it's done

here is another....better idea of what it looks like:

i dont like it:shaking:

i dont like it:shaking:
That is not the kind os input he was looking for! :rolleyes:

What is not to like?

dude...its my rig:idea:

dude...its my rig:idea:
Geeee it's soo clear with all this information on who owns it:

nah,,,, that is not sean's scout...that is another one of my customer/wheeling budy's trucks. :flipoff2:

Geeee it's soo clear with all this information on who owns it:

:flipoff2:

well ive been in this forum with the same rig since 2001...this is the first major change since the O.G. build...

i know...i dont post up enough for anyone to recognize my shit...just fawking around a bit...:flipoff2:

Geeee it's soo clear with all this information on who owns it:

:flipoff2:

we'll i was trying to be discrete....... since it was a customer's rig...and i figured the owner would eventually see it and chime in.


Don't worry OS........we don't like him either :laughing:

Is there some sort of rule that scout welds have to look like shit?? :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Mine are barely any better, but now I know I am in good company?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/slipscomb/DSC00056.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0028_001.jpg

Is there some sort of rule that scout welds have to look like shit?? :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Mine are barely any better, but now I know I am in good company?


yes, I think so :D :D

Is there some sort of rule that scout welds have to look like shit?? :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Mine are barely any better, but now I know I am in good company?


:flipoff2: I've actually put down some nice ones lately.. but then I decide that a pretty little weld like that must not be enough, so I cover it up with a few more passes. :D


Besides, if I left my welds pretty my friends would start asking me to weld stuff for them more often, and I don't have the time. :D

Edit - kinda funny, that picture of my air bump you posted shows welds from three different machines (220 stick, 120amp mig, 180 mig) made over a 7 year period.. some of the nicest ones (IMHO) were early on with the stick.

Besides, if I left my welds pretty my friends would start asking me to weld stuff for them more often, and I don't have the time. :D


It's working, I wont be asking anytime soon :D :flipoff2:

Is there some sort of rule that scout welds have to look like shit?? :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Mine are barely any better, but now I know I am in good company?



yeah yeah......that one sucks..........it's going to get some cleanup....but shit even a pro can have a bad day :flipoff2: that is....in retrospect a tuff way to join 2 tubes........long knotch on a 90* bend.....and yeah had to have a lot of fill in.

i really can weld................i promise :grinpimp:

oh...and of course Sean had to post the WORLD'S LARGEST pic of a SHITTY weld on a big, long project :shaking:

:laughing:

oh...and of course Sean had to post the WORLD'S LARGEST pic of a SHITTY weld on a big, long project :shaking:

:laughing:


oops....:D

Any updates on this thread? What did you end up doing for coil rates?

Any updates on this thread? What did you end up doing for coil rates?

i want to say we ended up with 250 over 350...with a little more ride hieght than needed...possibly swapping to something similar in rate but shorter...im sure matt will correct me...this is only my hobbie (my head is filled with trivial surveying knowledge)...

as for a general update, the truck is rolling...its down to details now (paint, plumbing, wiring the winches)...i have one floorboard made, so some body parts still need to be fabricated...also need to retube the driveshafts (the only out-of-house fabrication)...its getting close, and we now have a dealine; a wheeling trip in early june...

im sure matt will chime in with some pictures (im not computer savvy, and cant get my camera and computer to talk) and comments...

until then i will continue to lurk and occasionally make an ass of myself:beer:

you think lurking on pirate is bad.......try walking out of your shop and seeing this guy lurking around the parking lot......he occasionally pops up from behind a tuck or the dumpster. scares the shit out of me :laughing: :laughing:


well here are a few pics from yesterday eve..............truck is siting at full compresion (on the bumpstops) ........rided height will be 3" higher.

i have gotten a few PM's on this rig (sorry i haven't replied...i'm too busy working).........Maybe we should start an actual build up thread on this with some tech.


profile:

it was quite a challenge to get htis rig down low............front is a 3 link with track bar and stock scout steering box.

here is full stuff.......i'm pretty psyched with the way it has turned out so far :D

37" MT/R's ............. & sittin' LOW:

I'm diggin' the linked suspension. I gotta ask, though.... when building a buggy like that one, why keep the firewall and windshield? I think it detracts from the looks of the buggy. Why not just fab a firewall that would look a lot more "finished" than the hacked off front of an SII tub?

I can't speak for him, but fabbin' a firewall sucks. Its easy yes, but then you add the time and expense of mounting your steering column, gauges, pedal assembly, master cyl and booster as well as everything else that goes along with having the firewall in place.

Then you get into the "why keep the stock MC when I can get a nice Willwood one" or 'hey, this stock column sucks, lets get a Flaming River ~ or full hydro'.

Like I said, I can't speak for these guys but if you're looking to stick to a budget, then its just easier, faster to use what you have than to ADD all the time and expense of doing something custom.

Oh, and you can still somewhat bolt the body panels back on it too.

yeah, that's just it.

for one...the major issue on this rig is economy. this didn't really start as a buggy build from a budget standpoint. it started as a "modify" project. Well as time progressed and we made decisions on it ......... well it's pretty much a buggy now.

BUT, the fact still remains, this is a trail rig / occasional street driven rig that is really still what it started as. It has a VIN #, the original frame, a windshield, drivetrain, etc. It will have all the original front sheet metal and grill..........the sides and back will be coveredand all painted to (from a distance) look like a full body....sort of. it will have legal lighting all the way around. He can run the windshield if he wants........or take it off for a weekend trail run.

this truck carries Antique Plates in Va and is exempt from all of the red tape. it does not have to have a state inspection, but can have a legal plate for street use.



in retrospect, it is a lot of work and a PITA to work around a firewall..............but you do have some peramiters layed out in front of you and it eliminates a BOATLOAD of issues.



besides, when you sit in it and look forward it feels like a narrowed scout without doors :smokin:

yeah...what he said

this didn't really start as a buggy build from a budget standpoint. it started as a "modify" project. Well as time progressed and we made decisions on it ......... well it's pretty much a buggy now.
:laughing: Dude, that described Rusty. It makes me feel stupid reading through the first couple of pages of the build. See how things progressed, or in other words fell apart into the way Rusty turned out. I'm not sorry it's a buggy, but it certainly didn't start that way. :laughing:

yeah, that's just it.

for one...the major issue on this rig is economy. this didn't really start as a buggy build from a budget standpoint. it started as a "modify" project. Well as time progressed and we made decisions on it ......... well it's pretty much a buggy now.

BUT, the fact still remains, this is a trail rig / occasional street driven rig that is really still what it started as. It has a VIN #, the original frame, a windshield, drivetrain, etc. It will have all the original front sheet metal and grill..........the sides and back will be coveredand all painted to (from a distance) look like a full body....sort of. it will have legal lighting all the way around. He can run the windshield if he wants........or take it off for a weekend trail run.

this truck carries Antique Plates in Va and is exempt from all of the red tape. it does not have to have a state inspection, but can have a legal plate for street use.



in retrospect, it is a lot of work and a PITA to work around a firewall..............but you do have some peramiters layed out in front of you and it eliminates a BOATLOAD of issues.



besides, when you sit in it and look forward it feels like a narrowed scout without doors :smokin:

As a Bastardized Scout owner myself, we should probably start our own support group. :D
My Scout does LOOK like a Scout more than that rig. :flipoff2:
Well, at least there will be another IH added to the list the purist will hate. It is nice not to be alone in my troubles.
If your like me, you probably are losing sleep over it also. :grinpimp:
I like the build up you are doing though. :smokin: It is very nice.

i doubt matt is losing any sleep..............hes a japanese purist........i bought into the IH brand because of the v8, solid axles and removable top.............its just a natural progression..why replace rusted crap with soon to be rusted crap when you can have DOM....it takes that shit longer to rust...

well, i've never claimed to be a purist by any means :shaking: ........... certainly not a japanese purist, but i am pretty fond of the sheet metal.



i guessing Shadowman actually meant "you aren't losing any sleep"

[QUOTE=TrooperRS]well, i've never claimed to be a purist by any means :shaking:

QUOTE]



LIES!!!:eek:

your shit is ALL isuzu:flipoff2: