Why do people spend so much time trying to get tre's for there vehicle when all they need to do is use a big feckin heim joint?

i have wondered the same thing more than once.

I got TRE's because I had two new ones laying aroud the shop. I also had fairly new ones on the vehicle. That is all I need for my X over so, for me, it would have been more expensive up front to use Heims. Also, I cant buy good heims at any local parts stores, so I would have had to pay big $$$ to ship them up here. :usa:

Dude, What the fawk are you talking about?:smokin:

Originally posted by Keith
Dude, What the fawk are you talking about?:smokin:

Are you talkin to me? If so then i would kindly ask you to read the title of the post you entered and commented on, then you will see what the fawk i am talkin about.

Originally posted by Keith
Dude, What the fawk are you talking about?:smokin:


I dunno what the Fawk he's talkin about either.
What are we suppose to assume from the KIA PRIDE picture:rasta:
I mean, I've got nothing against using heims joints for off road applications, but I dont even see any heim joints in the fawkin picture. In fact most of the pics appear to have TRE's in them.

Anyway to answer your feckin question,..TRE's are used for many automotive steering application because of their tolerance to survive very long periods of poor maintenance. Also their design, keeps the linkages captive, even when extremely worn.

I dont see any major advantage of a TRE over a high quality heim joint, but Detroit doesnt typically see it that way.

I like heims because the are easier to adapt to different conditions

do'nt think there is a reason for debate on this issue.

heims are no doubt better and easier to handle.

the reason people use TRE can only be that they allready have'm
in their systems. it's one thing to change a TRE and another to totally replace the system(steering, for example).

if you start from acratch and have to build a system, there's no doubt a heim would be better.

frog

IMO heims are for a lazy mans steering design. Suspension, they're fine. In steering applications I feel heims are totally fawkin lame. Only used because they're quick and dirty. I'll admit to using them for the last 9 years and counting, but simply because they were easy at the time. when I redo or replace my existing axle it will definitely have tre's. In my experience (9+ years, I've used 'em all) heims always wear out way too fast. Plus, not many people care but tre's are dot approved, and I drive my rig. If you get cought with heims for steering around here (El Dorado county) you WILL lose your rig. Fortunately, only the chp in bronco's know to check for that type of thing. Steering and welded parts shouldn't go hand in hand IMO and how often do you see a heim in double shear (the correct way) without something being welded together? How often are thay even used in double shear? :rant over: fire suit on, bring it!

Originally posted by Aggro
IMO heims are for a lazy mans steering design. Suspension, they're fine. In steering applications I feel heims are totally fawkin lame. Only used because they're quick and dirty. I'll admit to using them for the last 9 years and counting, but simply because they were easy at the time. when I redo or replace my existing axle it will definitely have tre's. In my experience (9+ years, I've used 'em all) heims always wear out way too fast. Plus, not many people care but tre's are dot approved, and I drive my rig. If you get cought with heims for steering around here (El Dorado county) you WILL lose your rig. Fortunately, only the chp in bronco's know to check for that type of thing. Steering and welded parts shouldn't go hand in hand IMO and how often do you see a heim in double shear (the correct way) without something being welded together? How often are thay even used in double shear? :rant over: fire suit on, bring it!

sounds like someones pussy is starting to hurt!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

heims rule

I plan on switching over to heims because I can build a big beefy tie rod, and almost all the guys I wheel with all use the same size heim:D I like the idea of common parts on your partners rigs;)

Originally posted by Mustard Dog
:D I like the idea of common parts on your partners rigs;)


Hell with that, I have donated a small fortune in spare parts, to the "Help a Pirate Rig, Get Home" foundation, just since Ive been here last summer. Im hoping I can write Lances rig off, as a dependent on this years taxes. :flipoff2:

if you start from acratch and have to build a system, there's no doubt a heim would be better.

I'm affraid that is not technically accurate. PLease allow me to inject some actual technical knowledge into this thread:flipoff2:

The chief reason that a common automotive tie rod end (TRE) is superior to a spherical rod end (offten called a Heim joint after the Heim mnufacturing company, an early producer), is not really relatde to the joint itself, but to the method of attachment.

That is to say, most of us are using "heims" and attaching them with SAE fasteners to brackets with drilled holes. SAE fasteners are not designed or produced for this type of close tolerane fit, nor is drilling the appropriate method for creating a precise dimension hole (the proper way is to use a proper close tolerance bolt, like an -AN style, and to drill a hole undersize and ream to final dimension). On top of this, in most cases, the Heims are not placed in double shear as they are designed. The result is a steering joint that is improperly engineered...with anywhere from 5-7 or more thou slop between bolt and bracket, that can, over-time lead to wear, stress, fatigue, and failure. That's why Detroit uses TRE's - with their tapered inteference fit, superior lubricity without loss of strength (as in a Heim that is greasable), better sealing, and all the other stuff H8 mentioned.

Now - it IS entirely possible to engineer and construct a proper and safe steering joint using a spherical rod end, IF one uses proper techniques and hardware....race cars do it all the time....but none of us ever does.

And unless you do, IMHO, the TRE is better.

Oh, and just to be thorough - we can;t really compare them unless we specify the spherical rod end we are talking about, as they are available in two, three, or four piece design, and have dramaticly different materials used in the construction of the housing, race, and ball.

I could go on and on.....

In short - use a TRE or at least a 3 piece design SRE made from hi-strength materials (4130/4340/CRES) mounted in double shear with a proper An bolt in a proper close tolerance hole.


Or not....what the fawk do I care :p :p

My picture does suck but it was the only one i could find of tre's. Was too lazy to post a pic of a heim joint. So the kia pic is not relevent to anything other that the fact that it shows a pic of a tre.
My personal feeling is that the two piece heims last longer than the 3 piece design. Seems the three piece ones fail a lot. Will always use heims because of the ease and adaptability.

fyi some of use do it at least partially correct. i always have my holes reamed to size. not just drilled.

on the steering i don't use the double sheer design because i just don't see the need for it on a trail rig using 3/4" grade 8 bolts and high strength 4340 heims.

I'm upgrading to the Cheby TRE's. They are available at every parts store, and don't cost much. How much does a quality heim cost?

Aside from all the stuff mentioned above, I don't think it's a coincidence that almost every heim I see on the trail is worn out.

I don't want to add anything, just post an old pic and stir up some troubble

I agree with the folks who have already said that SREs wear out too fast, are too expensive for good ones, can't be purchased at the BFE auto parts store, and are a safety issue mounted in single shear. As for the people who like SREs because they're easier, do you shit your bed because it's easier than getting up and walking down the hall to the bathroom? I'll guess not, probably because there are compelling reasons to make that short walk. There are equally compelling reasons to make the slight extra effort to put together a steering system with TREs.

i agree with billavista on this one. unless its done right heims are the lazy mans solution. i'm doin mine with TREs. i can get replacements at any parts store, and its a more professional setup.

Dallas

Originally posted by Nobody
I'm upgrading to the Cheby TRE's. They are available at every parts store, and don't cost much. How much does a quality heim cost?

Aside from all the stuff mentioned above, I don't think it's a coincidence that almost every heim I see on the trail is worn out.

And . . . LIFETIME WARRANTY!!!

No ones gonna say anything about the fact that some TREs are availble that have much more available movemnt than heims? (EXCEPT for the above trouble maker:D )???????

I used tre's on mine cause I already had them and cause I have to pass a motor vehicle inspection here.
trail repairability is also an issue, snap a heim someplace and you're off looking for a specialty shop, snap a tre and the nearest parts store will probably have one for you.

Originally posted by Mustard Dog
I plan on switching over to heims because I can build a big beefy tie rod, and almost all the guys I wheel with all use the same size heim:D I like the idea of common parts on your partners rigs;)

Nothing personal but you can build a big beefy tierod with TRE also! Check out Rockstompers Rock Rod!

I am stickin with TREs for steering.

some of use do it at least partially correct. i always have my holes reamed to size. not just drilled.

That's pretty impressive.....me, I'm all talk...mostly I'm lucky if I can find a bit that's even close, and then I gotta hold the damn drill half steady :flipoff2:

And you are correct....it is not imperative to use double shear, depending on other aspects of the design....but I left that out as it weakened my sermon :eek: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by BillaVista


....but I left that out as it weakened my sermon :eek: :flipoff2:


AMEN Brutha Bill!!!:D

Damn Bill, thats pretty down to earth...I'm impressed

You gotta get a drillpress... I'll never go back !