I was reading 4wheel & Off-road and saw the zuk that was in the ultimate adventure. Said it had Subaru Birfs? Anyone heard of that mod?

Thanks!!

I have, but why? Try and find a spare Subaru birf on the trail. I doubt there stronger than a Toyota also. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by fatkid:
<STRONG>I have, but why? Try and find a spare Subaru birf on the trail. I doubt there stronger than a Toyota also. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

When I build, I don't want to swap in Toy axles, I want to stay as stock as possible. BUt this mod interests me. What IS the mod? Also I don't suggest you could find spare Subaru birfs on the trail. But I'm assuming you could always swap back to zuk birfs, right?

Could someone please enlighten me?

This is an old school Tim Hardy mod that involves lots of special machine work etc. IMHO it aint worth doing nowadays, so I second Fatkid. If you are married to zuk axles buy birfield rings and call it good.

Leave the Birfields you week point....It is alot easier changing a broken birfield than a broken axle that you busted the splines off in the R&P!!

OK thanks for the info! Just curious, what WAS it? And, where do you get birfield rings? Do you weld them yourself? Sorry for all the newbie type questions but I want to know as much as possible before I buy a zuk. And I WILL I just have to WAIT until I can afford to build the rig <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

on the subtect of birf rings those Calmini ones look interesting anybody know bout them?

Originally posted by RudeZuk:
<STRONG>Leave the Birfields you week point....It is alot easier changing a broken birfield than a broken axle that you busted the splines off in the R&P!!</STRONG>

Yup...same way I see it. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

what would be the best sub for birfields dont want to change the frount axel lots of work putting coils on it pluse the money in r&p so any one hurd of the unbreakible birfield that is garented for life he rehardenes them and welds a ring on them he says if you break one you can just send it back and get your money back or get a new one let me know k



Dan Johnson :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

You can get TT new front axle with 44 outers.....no more birfields...

call tim at northcoast offroad great price on rings and easy to put in definately better than staying stock . I"m locked front no
problems so far

Another option is our Long Axles. The Birfield joint is warranted for life to never break on you......EVER. If it does - Long will give you a new one no charge and no questions asked.

(There are NO restrictions on this warranty. Run any size tires you want)

http://www.roadlessgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RGL&Product_Code=LES100

We'll see about the Long axles this weekend, the Tin Benders will be field testing them on desertoy's buggy. If they can withstand the carnage like they say they'll get the Tin Benders seal of quality. The other issue to address is the rumor about the loss of turning radius with the Long axles.

We shall soon see...:skull:

it's peaked my interest. :D

I thought you had a redline kit...

nope nothing like that yet. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by duckblink
I was reading 4wheel & Off-road and saw the zuk that was in the ultimate adventure. Said it had Subaru Birfs? Anyone heard of that mod?

Thanks!!

I think the Subaru came with a somewhat larger Birfield than the Samurai uses. I think it's O.D. still fits in the housing, but you gotta do a bunch of machine work for it to fit in the Sam. spindle = $$$. The inner axle is quite a bit bigger - you use the side gears from the Sam Rear up front & a custom inner axle to give you a beefier setup. This is what Brent at Trail Tough does I believe. They are expensive, but substantially stronger I'm sure. Stronger than a Toy Birf? I dunno - haven't heard of any tests.

We did some testing on those birfs this weekend and I think it safe to say so far so good, I can't recall a problem with em and we ran some tuff trails, Wrecking Ball, Sledge, and Jack. I also had the chance to take a look at em and I was told that they didn't have a limited turing radius. But one weekend is hardly a test, so we shall see. If they work well than I don't see how you can beat them for the price, I hope they work out.:)

Originally posted by fatkid
We did some testing on those birfs this weekend and I think it safe to say so far so good. If they work well than I don't see how you can beat them for the price, I hope they work out.:)

Please keep us informed. Are these the Trail Tough axles you're talking about? I'll probably buy a set eventually, I'm running outta stock axles and don't really want to $wap to anything heavier. $600 is not too bad if I can keep my gears, lockers, x-over steering, and wheels.;)

There the Long axles for Toyota's, however I've heard that they make some for the Suzuki's. If so I'd like to see some one test those out at the Hammers. :)

ONLY the Birfield is gauranteed on the Long Ent. Samurai axles, which wouldn't help much, IMO. Of the four front axles I've broken, two of them were the axle shaft and not the Birfield. A stronger (less brittle) Birfield would definitely move the weak link to the wimpy 22 spline axle.

To Long Ent.: Put that indestuctable Birfield on a 26 spline axle and you'll have something!;)

Your are right, but for some they just want a stronger Birf. I say just get rid of the Suzuki stuff altogether. I think it's all about letting people learn there own way.:)

I'm sure Long would love to move the warranty to the axle shaft itself - but then people would say "that just moves the break point to the next weakest link - the R&P gears and they are expensive and hard to replace".

So you get somebody to lifetime warranty R&P gears.

Then it's "that just moves the break point to the next weakest link - the TCase and they are expensive to replace"

So you get somebody to lifetime warranty the TCase. Then it's (well...you get the picture).

Let's face it - stock parts break. If it aint breakin you aint doin it right.

If you never want to break a birfield in a stock axle again - get a Long Axle. If you'd like your birfields to be the fuse in your drivetrain - run all stock.

But personally I think this: run Long axles and get a set of Warn fuse hubs if you want a weak link that's easy and cheap to replace. Birfield joints do not make very economical fuses.

Originally posted by CSR
ONLY the Birfield is gauranteed on the Long Ent. Samurai axles, which wouldn't help much, IMO. Of the four front axles I've broken, two of them were the axle shaft and not the Birfield. A stronger (less brittle) Birfield would definitely move the weak link to the wimpy 22 spline axle.

To Long Ent.: Put that indestuctable Birfield on a 26 spline axle and you'll have something!;)

With that said, just change out the stock axles all together.:)

Originally posted by figmo
personally I think this: run Long axles and get a set of Warn fuse hubs if you want a weak link that's easy and cheap to replace. Birfield joints do not make very economical fuses.

That should work.;)

Originally posted by figmo

If you never want to break a birfield in a stock axle again - get a Long Axle. If you'd like your birfields to be the fuse in your drivetrain - run all stock.

But personally I think this: run Long axles and get a set of Warn fuse hubs if you want a weak link that's easy and cheap to replace. Birfield joints do not make very economical fuses.

Just don't run the Hub fuses with an automatic locker...they only work with spools, arb's or a weld job. I saw a hub fuse let go on a D44, and it ate the lockright up. I have also heard that detroits don't like hub fuses either. When the fuse breaks it puts a tremendous strain on the side gears and locking mechanism in an automatic locker...So if you have a spool or an ARB they will work for you...

:trooper:

Just get rid of the stock weak shat.:flipoff2:

I widened a sammy front axle, works great under my sidekick... problemis the lengthened shaft was welded... yes i know...it breaks. SO anyways, I am thinking about sammy rear side gears, sammy rear axles resplined to fit into either my sammy birfs with the rings on already, or pressed into subaru birfs...

If you know the details of the subaru birf build, post it please. If you are going to say "toyota axles" one more time, don't post. :flipoff2: I want the exceptional ground clearance of my shaved sammy diffs, and the 5:12 gears of the kick 3rd.

BTW, anyone have a clue which is stronger: sammy birfs with rings or subaru birfs???

Also, how big of a tire can a guy run on a rear tacker/sammy shaft?? I don't intend on going past 33"... and I wheel mostly mud and snow...

Damn, dusty thread this one.

I have done a bunch of searching, poring over manufacturers CV lists, cross referencing measurements and I can't find any Subaru birfs that would be work as a replacement for the zook birf.

I'm not saying they don't exist, but i'm buggered if I know what was used.

However, Kia Sportage CVs may be a candidate from what I have found. I haven't got a hold of one to measure up though.

Damn, dusty thread this one.

I have done a bunch of searching, poring over manufacturers CV lists, cross referencing measurements and I can't find any Subaru birfs that would be work as a replacement for the zook birf.

I'm not saying they don't exist, but i'm buggered if I know what was used.

However, Kia Sportage CVs may be a candidate from what I have found. I haven't got a hold of one to measure up though.


Not much more details....but maybe a little more info for ya.....
I was just reading a 4x4 mag this weekend (can't remember which one...but I know it was a 2006 issue) and it mentioned something about the subaru birfs that Hardy used (uses). IIRC, they were from a later 70s/early 80s subaru with a turbo motor. They didn't go into detail on how they are made to work in a samurai though.

Edit...it was the July 2006 issue of petersens 4wheel and off road...they are from a 79-83? subaru wagon with a turbo...I guess they did say (or maybe I was reading it in another mag) that Hardy does cut the axle shaft off the birf and weld a samurai one in place of it. They also said the birf is big enough that the knuckle has to be removed in order to install (or remove) it.

well, I think it might have been a 70's subaru brat, and I heard whispers that it is done by cutting the cup of the birf and welding the sammy stub onto the subaru birf... damned if i know what anyone means by that, and it sounds like a lot of frigging work. Plus, I imagine it would need to be heat treated afterwards... something I should have done for my welded axle shaft but didn't...

Something else I have been looking into is just running 31's (it does PHENOMENAL, even with a busted shaft!!!-matches jeeps with dual lockers and 35's) and getting a new shaft made, 22 spline, but longer (20 1/4" long) and having it tougher than the rest of the stock front axle parts, so if anything blows, it won't be my custom shaft.

So far NO ONE has been able to make it for me. I've sent letters to Superior, Currie, Trail Tough, Axle System, Dutchman, Currie, Strange...


One idea that Axle system had was to take a long side shaft and cut it, then heat and press fit it together to the new shorter length inside of a 1/4" wall tube, then weld. They've done it before and it holds... Only problem is my seal area right? :D I would have to machine it bigger and get a seal plate to bolt in there ha ha :shaking: Then the shaft would go in first, followed by the seal, and THEN whack that birf on... Oh lord... :barf:


I would frigging LOVE to find SOMEONE who could make me a custom length sammy shaft. End all my troubles.

In 2-3 years, I go landcruiser. :mad3:

the subi birf is the basis of the sami longfield also tim hardy used a subi birf in his front drive shaft . the guy is an amazing machinist so what he makes cheap would cost us a fortune

well, I think it might have been a 70's subaru brat, and I heard whispers that it is done by cutting the cup of the birf and welding the sammy stub onto the subaru birf... damned if i know what anyone means by that, and it sounds like a lot of frigging work. Plus, I imagine it would need to be heat treated afterwards... something I should have done for my welded axle shaft but didn't...

Something else I have been looking into is just running 31's (it does PHENOMENAL, even with a busted shaft!!!-matches jeeps with dual lockers and 35's) and getting a new shaft made, 22 spline, but longer (20 1/4" long) and having it tougher than the rest of the stock front axle parts, so if anything blows, it won't be my custom shaft.

So far NO ONE has been able to make it for me. I've sent letters to Superior, Currie, Trail Tough, Axle System, Dutchman, Currie, Strange...


One idea that Axle system had was to take a long side shaft and cut it, then heat and press fit it together to the new shorter length inside of a 1/4" wall tube, then weld. They've done it before and it holds... Only problem is my seal area right? :D I would have to machine it bigger and get a seal plate to bolt in there ha ha :shaking: Then the shaft would go in first, followed by the seal, and THEN whack that birf on... Oh lord... :barf:


I would frigging LOVE to find SOMEONE who could make me a custom length sammy shaft. End all my troubles.

In 2-3 years, I go landcruiser. :mad3:

have you checked with Moser. im not sure about sammy axles, but they can build just about anything you want.

I think I heard a fellow from Idaho mention that OTT from Canada made custom shafts for their sammy axle to a sidekick conversion.

Try "Double Tough Front Axles" @ TT
I have had them for years (going on 8).

Yup, this is an old thread alright.... :)

Go Trail Tough's double tough birfs or cal OTT and have 'em make you some new shaft outta Astralloy (sp?) and yes OTT can do a longer shaft no prob.

Yes I did call OTT, they can do it for appx $250 CDN...
And yes Moser can do it too! Hooray!!


I think I'll just run the one upgraded shaft for now, with my 31's...that way, the shite I do break will be stock.

In a few years I plan on going FJ80 front (63") and taco rear (60"), with e-lockers, and on 35's...so yes saving $$$$..!


Just out of curiousity, how big of a tire can you go on a sammy axle with the trail tough axles?? Anyone tried the Roadless Gear newfields?? Figmo at Roadless says the may be able to do custom lengths around January 2007 or so... In the back of my head there is this evil little voice that is yelling something about upgrading the entire front axle while I'm at it...

Yes I did call OTT, they can do it for appx $250 CDN...
And yes Moser can do it too! Hooray!!


I think I'll just run the one upgraded shaft for now, with my 31's...that way, the shite I do break will be stock.

In a few years I plan on going FJ80 front (63") and taco rear (60"), with e-lockers, and on 35's...so yes saving $$$$..!


Just out of curiousity, how big of a tire can you go on a sammy axle with the trail tough axles?? Anyone tried the Roadless Gear newfields?? Figmo at Roadless says the may be able to do custom lengths around January 2007 or so... In the back of my head there is this evil little voice that is yelling something about upgrading the entire front axle while I'm at it...

I've got 35" Boggers, 4.16 T-case, and a 2.0 liter Vitara motor in my Zuk and so far the TT Double-Tough's are holding up to the task. These are the new shafts that Brent @ TT sells which are made out of 300M.....BETTER THAN THE NEWFIELDS!!! ....I broke three Newfield shafts (two shorts and a long side) before going to the Trail Tough 300M shafts. I beat the $hit out of my Zuk and I think upgrading the front to the TT axles and the rear to the Calmini HD shafts are both good investments for those that already have geared and locked Zuk stuff.

HTH

Sean DeVinney

Trail tough won't do custom lengths for their axles.... Roadless will in January... if anything changes I'll be happy to hear about it!!