hey bitches :flipoff2:

what are the pros and cons of these?

i saw on another forum, that some of the guys were commenting that the nitrogen was far better for on board air then co2.

this is beyond my techincal knowledge, i was wondering what you guys thought?

i always read about co2 tanks and group buys on them and suchm, by why no mention of nitrogen?

is it that much more to fill? can ya run air tools (one of the main reasons of MY co2 setup)?

pros and cons from the experts?

thanks

nitrogen is a high pressure gas that is not stored in a liquid form, it is also dry. as you use it pressure drops untill empty. like running the air out of your air compressor without having it plugged in. nitrogen bottles can be used on their sides or upside down because there is no liquid inside.


c02 is a liquid in the bottle that boils off into a gas as the pressure is dropped in the bottle. (valve opened, filling tires etc) c02 causes massive temp drops at point of pressure change ie: regulator. this causes moisture in the air to condense on the regulator which looks like frost. the extreme low temps cause the regulator body to shrink to the point that it starts to stick the needle valve inside and cannot properly regulate pressure anymore. having liquid c02 passing through your air tools is hard on the tools. make sure that the bottle is upright so no liquid c02 gets in the regulator. for a proper regulator for the c02 that can handle large volumes without freezing plan on spending about 200.00... useing a welding machine regulator is doable kinda but not the best choice.

as far as volume per fill, i believe that c02 gives you more cubic feet of gas to use over nitrogen. could be wrong on this but im pretty sure thats right.

guess it comes down to personal preferance. i personally use c02 and have a high-flow reg for it. never used nitrogen for this so i cant comment on trail performance.


chris:cool2:

nitrogen can come in a liquid form too called LN2, it is very cold like liquid o2, but LN2 is used mostly for pressurizing aircraft fuel tanks.

Just filled my 15 lb CO2 bottle today for 21 bucks. I've done my tires, 33x12.50's about 10 times 5 to 20 psi, 39.5's twice 3 to 10 psi and some 33x10.50's 10 to 30 psi a couple times. 56 tires before it ran out this past weekend. Knew it was going to happen too since the bottle felt pretty light.

I think it depends on how much you will be planning on using it. I think the N2 will hold less. The sweet part is if you are running air shocks/coilovers you can fill them or somebody else's on the trail.

CO2 will also "fade" out of your tires a small percentage more than N...

Go with a compressor and be done with it. I got tired of filling up CO2 tanks every time I went out wheeling. There was always some moocher who wanted me to fill their tires up after I did mine. Right Kev?:flipoff2:

Seriously, get an electric compressor and be done with it if you dont want to engine mount one on the 80. I love my extreme aire and I think there's a generic version floating around on Ebay. Just make sure its 100% duty cycle. The initial cost is a bit steeper than a good CO2 setup but add in 10 fills of CO2 to the price and it'd be even. Add a tank to the setup and it'd be tits. And you wont be adding CO2 to the already polluted air. I raced Waller with his York and my electric filled up a 35 tot he same PSI one second slower than the York.

And you wont be adding CO2 to the already polluted air.

That's a good one, but I think it's CO (Carbon Monoxide) that you need to worry about, not CO2, the stuff that makes your beer better. Could you imagine if the greenies started saying we couldn't have CO2 in our beer ?

Go with a compressor and be done with it. I got tired of filling up CO2 tanks every time I went out wheeling.

Yeah, i have a brand new York sitting in my garage that i will someday get the motivation to find a way to fab it into my engine compartment, But until then, the c02 tank is staying! I think i can get quite a few tires fills from a 20lb tank, and NO no one will be mooching off me! They can all go fawk off! :smokin:

There was always some moocher who wanted me to fill their tires up after I did mine.

Yeah, thats cause your :rainbow: :flipoff2:

Seriously, get an electric compressor and be done with it if you dont want to engine mount one on the 80. I love my extreme aire and I think there's a generic version floating around on Ebay. Just make sure its 100% duty cycle.

I got a nice 20lb c02 Tank with reg for free, so i will make it work until i get motivated to start the york install!

The initial cost is a bit steeper than a good CO2 setup but add in 10 fills of CO2 to the price and it'd be even. Add a tank to the setup and it'd be tits. And you wont be adding CO2 to the already polluted air. I raced Waller with his York and my electric filled up a 35 tot he same PSI one second slower than the York.

See! Its slower! Case Rested! :flipoff2:

:D

Nope, you're wrong. CO kills you, but CO2 is what comes out of your tailpipe and pollutes the air. Not that I really think our use of CO2 is enough to do any damage to the world, but every little bit helps. The other thing to watch out for is that CO2 is an oxygen displacer. That is why it is used for welding. What this means to you is that be careful with it in an enclosed environment. I had my tank in the back of my 4Runner and somehow the valve cracked open a little. I didnt hear it but I did get dizzy and after a while pulled over to find that it was leaking. What was happening is that the cb was filling up with CO2 and pushing all of the oxygen out of the cab. Not good. Especially if you're camping in the back of the 80 and you accidentally knock the valve open while having rough animal sex with your boyfriend. :barf:

...I got tired of filling up CO2 tanks every time I went out wheeling. There was always some moocher who wanted me to fill their tires up after I did mine....Yeah, thats cause your :rainbow: :flipoff2:...What was happening is that the cb was filling up with CO2 and pushing all of the oxygen out of the cab. Not good. Especially if you're camping in the back of the 80 and you accidentally knock the valve open while having rough animal sex with your boyfriend. :barf:Case proved? :confused:



:flipoff2:

With nitrogen, you are not going to see pressure rise in your tires if ran low for a while from heat.

CO2 is what comes out of your tailpipe and pollutes the air. Not that I really think our use of CO2 is enough to do any damage to the world, but every little bit helps.:
Better stop BREATHING then too buddy!:flipoff2:
Trees/plants etc. NEED CO2 so really we are doing the world a favor by using CO2 in our OBA systems.

And CO is a byproduct of gasoline internal cumbustion as well. So is water and a bunch of other noxious gases.

Some other good points to make for CO2:

It costs me the same to fill a 5,10,15 or 20# tank of CO2-- $12. So I bought two 15# tanks and one regulator from PowerTank. So that means half as many trips to the refill station.

CO2 is FAST! Try about 25 CFM!
CO2 is safe to store in your rig. If the tank ruptured (which it wouldn't) or the reg got knocked off (much more likely, that is why Powertank will not sell their regulator without their tank and guard for liability reasons) the contents can only be expelled relatively gradually (as opposed to an explosion) and the liquid would then freeze solid (autorefridgerate)
So just roll down the window and let the cab air out.

I used to run CO2. I'm not going to debate the environmental effects of CO2 because I really don't care. We could debate the effects of methane from Kev's ass too but I was hoping that someday, we could harness the power from them and solve the world's enegy crisis.

I got tired of having to fill up my tank all the time. There is no gauge to tell ya when its getting close to empty either. A 10 Lb CO2 tank only got me about 10 tire fill ups, 35 x 12.5 from 10 PSI to 35 PSI. To each is own, but coming from someone who has had it all, a compressor is the way to go. Second would be CO2.

A tank is $100 to buy. You bought 2.
A regulator is $50
$250 total plus 10 fills at $120 and you're almost to the cost of an Xtreme Aire compressor that will give you endless air.

The only benefit that CO2 has is that it doesnt need electricity to work.

Better stop BREATHING then too buddy!:flipoff2:
Trees/plants etc. NEED CO2 so really we are doing the world a favor by using CO2 in our OBA systems.

And CO is a byproduct of gasoline internal cumbustion as well. So is water and a bunch of other noxious gases.

Some other good points to make for CO2:

It costs me the same to fill a 5,10,15 or 20# tank of CO2-- $12. So I bought two 15# tanks and one regulator from PowerTank. So that means half as many trips to the refill station.

CO2 is FAST! Try about 25 CFM!
CO2 is safe to store in your rig. If the tank ruptured (which it wouldn't) or the reg got knocked off (much more likely, that is why Powertank will not sell their regulator without their tank and guard for liability reasons) the contents can only be expelled relatively gradually (as opposed to an explosion) and the liquid would then freeze solid (autorefridgerate)
So just roll down the window and let the cab air out.

I got tired of having to fill up my tank all the time. There is no gauge to tell ya when its getting close to empty either.


The only benefit that CO2 has is that it doesnt need electricity to work.


I gotta disagree. I have run electric on board air systems, a york and now I run CO2. I find the CO2 tank much easier to use and rely on. FYI, you weigh the tank empty, note the weight, weigh it full, note the weight (should be 20 pounds more for a 20 pound tank, which is what I run). This is an accurate way to know how much you have left. Plus I run my ARB's off the CO2 tank and love it. No wires, no mess, RELIABLE as hell as there is nothing to go wrong, it is all mechanical and pneumatic. SO, A BENEFIT to CO2 is that it is more reliable to an electrical setup in many ways.

Neither one is better than the other really. It just comes down to personal preference and what works for you. :smokin:

Noah

I used to run CO2. I'm not going to debate the environmental effects of CO2 because I really don't care. We could debate the effects of methane from Kev's ass too but I was hoping that someday, we could harness the power from them and solve the world's enegy crisis.

I got tired of having to fill up my tank all the time. There is no gauge to tell ya when its getting close to empty either. A 10 Lb CO2 tank only got me about 10 tire fill ups, 35 x 12.5 from 10 PSI to 35 PSI. To each is own, but coming from someone who has had it all, a compressor is the way to go. Second would be CO2.

A tank is $100 to buy. You bought 2.
A regulator is $50
$250 total plus 10 fills at $120 and you're almost to the cost of an Xtreme Aire compressor that will give you endless air.

The only benefit that CO2 has is that it doesnt need electricity to work.

The two CO2 tanks are for backup just in case my Oasis compressor on 24V goes south for some reason. The Oasis is good for about 16 CFM but will blow through 4000 amps in about 20 minutes so that is why I have CO2.

For those with spare room under the hood (NOT 80's or 62's), a York compressor is cheap and blows CO2 away IMHO... As always, tradeoffs...

Carl's old UROC buggy had the York systenm, ran air tools like a charm, flip the switch and your done using it... We used it quite a bit throughout the seasons...

York Pro's
No need to fill
Mount it just once
Safer (CO2 affixiation/missle factor)
Cheaper (never have to refill)
Doesn't freeze tools/regulators
Easy to plumb

York Con's
Not transferable between rigs
Won't fit with all the clutter of an 80 or 62 without some major work.

Of course, I run CO2 on both my rigs (10lb in the Taco, 20lb in the Cruiser)... always done what I asked :D

And for the cheap guys, pull a plug out and screw in a air fitting, start your motor & instantly 120+ psi ;) :D (I seriously remember a company that used to market those? Anyone remember?)

For those with spare room under the hood (NOT 80's or 62's), a York compressor is cheap and blows CO2 away IMHO...

I second that!

Safer (CO2 affixiation/missle factor)
Since the contents of a CO2 bottle are never available all at once (builds pressure through evaporation) your "missile factor" is an impossibility.

I wouldnt mind trying a new generation powertank. I had one of the first and the regulator was a complete POS and froze up on me constantly, leaving me with no air. I have heard good things about the newer setups, but since I own a compressor, the only way I'd go back to CO2 is if I wanted the tank on the trail for welding too.

I wouldnt mind trying a new generation powertank. I had one of the first and the regulator was a complete POS and froze up on me constantly, leaving me with no air. I have heard good things about the newer setups, but since I own a compressor, the only way I'd go back to CO2 is if I wanted the tank on the trail for welding too.

I personally think the new powertank setups are WAYY overpriced!

But then again, most of you that know me, know that i am a cheap SOB anyway! :flipoff2:

Since the contents of a CO2 bottle are never available all at once (builds pressure through evaporation) your "missle factor" is an impossibility.

Good point, I didn't even think about that... Though isn't there some harm in the valve coming off?

Either way I feel plenty safe with my CO2 system... I have it inside a sealed Pelican 1650 case, wonder how much pressure it can hold :D

dude, why buy a powertank?, make one yourself and it is way cheaper, buy all the ingredients locally.......

dude, why buy a powertank?, make one yourself and it is way cheaper, buy all the ingredients locally.......

I have bretts old one

Good point, I didn't even think about that... Though isn't there some harm in the valve coming off?

Either way I feel plenty safe with my CO2 system... I have it inside a sealed Pelican 1650 case, wonder how much pressure it can hold :D

No, there is also a relief valve that will activate if the tank has been overfilled and then heated. Either way, quickly blowing off CO2 will almost instantly freeze the liquid CO2 solid (autorefridgerate) which dramatically reduces the amount of gaseous CO2 available-- so that is what is meant by the contents are not available all at once.
The Pelican is good for negative pressure but not positive pressure. I would be surprised if it could hold even 50-100psi. By negative I mean atmospheric pressure.

hey bitches :flipoff2:

what are the pros and cons of these?

i saw on another forum, that some of the guys were commenting that the nitrogen was far better for on board air then co2.

pros and cons from the experts?

thanks

CO2
Pros: You get 845 CuFt of gas per Cu Ft of liquid CO2 (at room temp and 1 atmosphere pressure) This alone makes using CO2 way better than N2.
Cons: If the tank pops off in a closed room, you are more likely to be asphyxiated.

Nitrogen:
Pros: None (unless you are operating below -80C)
Cons: Full cylinders are 2000 PSI and if the valve gets knocked off they launch like a missile.

BTW, you can die from lack of oxygen with CO2 and you can die from lack of oxygen from N2.

I use N2 for work. It is best used on shocks and not in your tires..
;)

It is best used on shocks and not in your tires..?????

why not your tires? every airplane you see services their tires with nitrogen. the only reason is water content

I use N2 for work. It is best used on shocks and not in your tires..
;)

So why do all the Costco's use it around where I live?

So why do all the Costco's use it around where I live?

It is dry, it contains no oxygen which reacts with rubber and it is cheap.

Sigh...


For a compressed gas it is more expensive than air..

You can get about the same amount of N2 in a tank as air you can get in a dive tank. And the dive tanks are a lot cheaper to refill.

Airplanes use N2 due to the stability under extreme tempertures. Which is why it is nice for shocks as well. (It does not expand and contract nearly as much as Air will)

How about a comprimise for those CO2 haters and N2 haters, beer gas!
80% nitrogen and 20% carbon dioxide, goes great for those stouts and porters. If more of you homebrewed, more of you would have CO2 tanks laying around.

Actually powertanks are way overpriced, and nitrogen tanks are not as easy to obtain, so homebrew CO2 or compressor is the way to go. And if you want a regulator gaurd, try most homebrew shops or morebeer.com. I got one after I knocked off a gauge off the regulator. Just a lot of gas, no missle.