Thought it would be good to try and get some specifications on the Rockwell 2.5t axles all in one place.

So info that I have got (from the archives):

Steering axle:

80in WMS-WMS with hubs flipped out
70in WMS-WMS with hubs flipped in
Running two short axles decreases these measurements by 7.5in

Inner axle spline OD 1.75in
Outer axle spline OD 1.625in

So is what I got so far correct?



How about some more numbers anyone know these?

Inner and outer axle spline counts ?
Inner and outer axle base diameters (the dia that they neck down to or the minimum axle diameter) ?
Short inner and long inner and outer lengths ?

Clearance height from the axle centre line to the top of the centre section (ie the bit that will hit the motor) and from the axle centre line to the bottom on the centre section (ie the bit that will hit the rocks) What about shaved ?

How about the width of the flange of the pull out centre section (the top loader part) This measurement would be good so that you could then use pictures to measure other stuff off.

And off course all the same info for the rear.

And how about some stuff on pinon brakes etc.

And wheel brakes if anyone has got them (I know not likely).

Size wheels that can be run on them and backspacing ?

If we can get some of this info together it would be really a great help to people that are thinking of doing something with them.

So cmon guys, those that have got em or got good info give it up for us poor wannabies. :D

Sam

Hey SR...Post your plans for the RW's once you compile the info...Might get people goin'...

--D

Originally posted by RockRover
Hey SR...Post your plans for the RW's once you compile the info...Might get people goin'...

--D

Yea I will do that. Just need to find out if Jack Macnamara can make me up the spindles. They are on holidays until next week.

I really should just drive down there and measure them up myself. The guys only a good 1/2 hour away. Thing is he has never pulled one apart but I said that I would probably need to pull one apart to have look (even to make sure it has got the uni joints) before I bought them and he seemed cool with that.

But if I can get some more info together it will save me some leg work to see if I can setup the spindle/hub for the wheel brakes and get it under 70in WMS

Sam

I think its an excellent idea. I dont want to run these axles any time soon but would like to know the facts. Most people start blurbing out junk and have nothing to back it up.

I think the inner and outer axles are all the same diameter, I can go measure, I've forgotten. I can give you all that info later tonight if someone doesn't jump in. The spline count is 16 course.

I really think it is going to be tough to get wheel brakes with the hubs flipped in. I considered narrowing the housing and running the hubs flipped out but you'd still be wider than regular housing and hubs flipped in and your pinion would be much more centered probably giving some clearance issues with the driveshaft and bellhousing/tranny.

CJ

has anyone talked to chucks trucks and found out how much the disc brake conversion on the hub costs? i haven't been able to get a hold of anyone yet.

Talk to Daniel from USA 6x6. He's probably jump in on the list soon. I know I'd like to know some of the same stuff you want to know because I'm going to run a set under my XJ! :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Thanks CJ if you can get that informantion it would be great. Also while you are at it do you know what the inside diameter of the front rockwell spindle. I am guessing that it will be a little bit bigger than 1.625in but I really need to know fairly accurately. Also what is the width of the front housing from the spindle mounting face to the spindle mounting face.

The way I am going to get the wheel brakes is firstly to run two short axles in the front (shorten the housing) This then gets me to a WMS of between 62.5 and 72.5 (hubs in or out). Then I will run a Land Rover hub and disk brake on the rockwell spindle or machine up a new spindle that replaces the Rockwell one and adapts to the Rover hub.

The reason I want to run the rover hub is because it is as big (bearing size and drive flange size) as any 1 ton hub, they have disk brakes, can run a 15in wheel standard and I have lots of rover stuff.

Now I can fit a 80mm OD wheel bearing inside the rover hub easily (only have to machine off small amount) and the biggest ID with the 80mm OD is 50mm (almost 2in) so to get the hub to fit I will have to machine the rockwell spindle down to this 50mm or make up a new spindle. So the question is can I machine the rockwell spindle down to 50mm (or make a new spindle with an OD of 50mm and still fit the rockwell outer axle through the centre of it)

Now sorry guys I gotta go metric. The outer axle OD is 1.625 or 41.275mm so the spindle ID will be about 41.3mm and the OD needs to be the same as the wheel bearing which is 50mm. This gives the spindle a wall thickness of 4.35mm. So is this wall thickness thick enough??? The stock rover spindle has a wall of about 6mm. So the spindle will be a little bit thinner than the stock rover but it will be at a much larger diameter and it will be close enough for me. I can probably scrounge a bit more thickness by shaving a millimeter or so off the outer axle spline as well then I can make the custom spindle with a bit smaller ID and pick up some more spindle wall thickness that way.

I might see what sizes I can get a 2in ID bearing in as this might also work and get me some more space for the spindle.

I need to narrow the housing to fit the disk rotor and calipor on the outside of the spindle mounting face. This is why I need the outside of spindle mount face to outside of spindle mount face to see what WMS-WMS measurement I will come up with. I would like to get it under 70inches.

So that the plan. Wheel brakes, 15in wheels, Rockwell axles and a WMS-WMS less than 70in. I think that it is possible.

Sam

Strange Rover,

Why do you have to bring metric into this!

Alright...I got some measurements for you.

OD of spindle outboard of bearings: 2.44"
OD of spindle where bearings ride: 2.51"
ID of spindle: 1.73"
Length of Spindle: 7.625"
OD of wheel bearing race: ~4.43"

OD of axle shaft: 1.56"
OD of axle shaft splines: 1.61"
Length of stub shaft: 12.5"
Length of short shaft: 25.5"
Length of long shaft: 33"
16 Splines on all shafts

Centerline to top of diff: ~11"
Centerline to bottom of diff: ~6-6.5"
Width of opening in housing for diff: ~13"

Ok back to your problem...

Your wheeling bearing with od of 80mm(3.15") is fairly small compared to the rockwell bearings. The 50mm(1.77")ID quite a bit smaller than you need too. I'd say these bearings won't work.

The biggest thing about running disc brakes at the wheel is the clearance between the spindle mounting face and the back of the wheel hub. I'd guess there is about 3/8" - 1/2" of clearance between the back of the wheel hub and the face of the spindle flange...the flange is probably 1/4 - 3/8" thick. You'd need a rotor with a very big hat od, very small hat height and somewhat small rotor ID(compared to the needed hat diameter) to fit inside a 10" wheel. I run 15x10 with 4" bs on my rockwell with no problems.

The problem with narrowing one side is that it will really move the pinion closer to centerline and I think it will kill driveshaft clearance. Perhaps with a two piece shaft it would be doable.

Let me know what you think.

CJ

CJ Lagos

I can see that narrowing one side will create bigger clearance problems. If I did run two short axles and centred the front diff what would the offset of the pinion be, is it 5 inches as Im led to believe. I havent realy looked under my rig to check this out yet I figgered that if I could get the wheel brakes then nothing would stop me.

Ill reread your measurements and comments and post back soon.

Sam

Hmm, it would be offset about 5" I think. Not very much.

CJ

OK Ill try to talk non metric.

It looks as though the rockwell spindle wont be able to be machined down. Its ID is too big and I if I make my own spindle then a can get away with less clearancd between the OD of the splines and the ID of the custom spindle.

So the way im going to do the wheel brakes is this:

Pull the rockwell hub and spindle off and throw them away. They are just too big.

Machine up a custom spindle with an ID just bigger than the 1.61" say 1.62 " and an od of 2" cause the wheel bearing will have an ID of 2". The bearing this size is plenty for the weight and size of tyre that I am running as this bearing is bigger than a 1 ton axle (i think) but way less than the 2.5t. This will give a wall thickness to the spindle of (2-1.62)/2 = 0.19" (4.826mm) which although is thiner than what it should be (a rover is 0.24" thick) I think it will be close enough. If I shaved the OD of the axle spline (say by .02" or maybe more) I can get a thicker spindle that way.

Then I just mount the stock Rover hub and rotor on the new spindle and mount the calipor as normal. I would guess that this entire assambly (from the calipor outwards) will mount as close to the face of the spindle flange as possible so that this entire assambly will be on the outside of the face of the spindle flange.

What determines the WMS measurment is the distance between the two faces of the spindle flange plus whatever the width of the Rover brake assemble is out to the wheel mount surface.

Do you know what the distance is between the two spindle mount surfaces is???

Can you see what I am proposing.

Sam

Yes I see. I haven't seen how a rover brake setup looks but here are a few thoughts off the bat.

1) NOTHING can extend inboard of the spindle mounting surface. The knuckle is just so big that it will be in the way, this is really the biggest problem in my mind.

2) What about machining the axle shaft to a smaller ID so you could run an off the wall lockout hub for your rover? For instance, you could machine the stub shaft to 1.5"/35spline so you could use off the shelf lockouts. I guess you'll have to find someone who can make a broach for the rockwell splines to make you a driveflange.

3) The rockwell shaft is somewhat long... I'm wondering if you can push the inner wheel bearing outboard to line your driveflange up with the end of the axle shaft, this might give you some needed clearance for a caliper.

Let me know what you come up with...i'd love to run brakes at the wheels with hubs flipped in.

CJ

Another way to do this would be to get a 14 bolt spindle and hub and drill the centre of the spindle out enough to clearance the rockwell outer spline (take the ID from clearing a 1.5in axle to clearing a 1.61in axle so I guess drill it out another .11") This may weaken it too much I dont know. Then just addapt the spindle onto the rockwell spindle mount face and voila bolt the whole thing up.

Oh yea you might have to make up a couple of drive flanges or just machine and redrill the rockwell ones.


Just reading your post now. Ill repost soon.


Sam

All the brakes on a rear 14bolt and 60 that I have seen have brakes that go inboard of the spindle mounting surface which will be a problem. Hubs out might really be the only viable solution.

CJ

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Yes I see. I haven't seen how a rover brake setup looks but here are a few thoughts off the bat.

1) NOTHING can extend inboard of the spindle mounting surface. The knuckle is just so big that it will be in the way, this is really the biggest problem in my mind.

2) What about machining the axle shaft to a smaller ID so you could run an off the wall lockout hub for your rover? For instance, you could machine the stub shaft to 1.5"/35spline so you could use off the shelf lockouts. I guess you'll have to find someone who can make a broach for the rockwell splines to make you a driveflange.

3) The rockwell shaft is somewhat long... I'm wondering if you can push the inner wheel bearing outboard to line your driveflange up with the end of the axle shaft, this might give you some needed clearance for a caliper.

Let me know what you come up with...i'd love to run brakes at the wheels with hubs flipped in.

CJ

Yes I think that you understand what Im proposing.

There is nothing special about the rover stuff except that is as big as any 1 ton stuff (in terms of the bearings and OD of the drive flange that it uses), rund disk brakes, accepts 15in wheels and I have plenty of them.

Your point No 2 I have thought about this and it may be the way to go.

Your point No 3. Yes this is what I am proposing. Everything from the calipor out will be on the outside of the spindle mounting surface. So the WMS-WMS is determined by the spindle mount surface distance plus whatever it takes to fit thre calipor and everything else to the wheel mount surface. This is also why I have to norrow the housing.

Sam

Yeah, I don't have the exact measurement of spindle mounting surface to spindle mounting surface but I'd guess if the WMS to WMS is 69.25 then it is 68.25", that should get you close enough for calculations until you get into it.

CJ

OK just looking back you say the length of the spindle is 7.625. I just took a rough measurement and if I jam the calipor againse the spindle mount surface the end of the spindle will be in the correct position ( similar to where it is on the rover spindle would be) Meaning the stock formation distance from the back of the rover calipor to the end of the rover spindle is about 7.5in. So that should work out fairly well.

The wheel mount face of the rover is set back 1.5in from the end of the rover spindle.

So to do the WMS-WMS calculation this would be the 68.25 +7.625+7.625-1.5-1.5 = 80.5inches.

So its very similar to the stock rockwell mounting face. So by running with the two short axles it would give me a WMS of 80.5-7.5 which is 73inches.

This is not to bad for a first guess. Would be able to get more by grinding a bit off the calipor and also by clearancing the spindle flange (maybe loose a spindle mount bolt or two???)

I think that it is possible!!

Then only have to work out if the toploader will fit when it is centred.

Sam

To be honest...I would just narrow the housing and run hubs flipped out. It may end up being 2-3" wider overall but is that really worth the time and effort for specialized parts? It would be cool though.

CJ

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
To be honest...I would just narrow the housing and run hubs flipped out. It may end up being 2-3" wider overall but is that really worth the time and effort for specialized parts? It would be cool though.

CJ

Yes that is true.

Do you know what wheel size and stud pattern I would have to run. I had the impression that I wouldnt be able to run a 15in wheel with say 4in back spacing over the stock rockwell drum brake.

Sam

You can't. You have to pull the brakes off, they are freaking huge. I don't think you could run anything more than 4" bs, my wheel is pretty close to the knuckle steering arm, perhaps another 1/4" - 1/2" but is is close.

I think it is 6x8.75"....

See ya.

CJ

just run the 20" rims with the 52" michelin tires...

Originally posted by CrazyHorse
just run the 20" rims with the 52" michelin tires...

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Nah really want to run my 15in wheels and my 42s. I just got too much $$$$ in them.

I think that I will run the rover hubs. A guy down here Jack Macnamara Differentials (hes the other guy ,not ARB or OX, that makes selectable lockers for dana 44, 60, 70s and rovers and toys) makes a spindle to convert a rover to 1.5in 35 spline. So I can just buy them off him and get him to bore them to the 1.61in for the rockwell. Then the easiest way to convert them is to treat the rockwell spindle as a normal old rear axle tube and cut it at the length I want and weld on a flange that I can cut off a rear axle tube. Then the hub and rotors and calipers and wheels will all just bolt up easy. Then all I got to do is modify the rockwell drive flange (cut it down and drill a couple of holes) to bolt onto the rover hub.

And the job is done. Too bloody easy.

Now all I got to do is work out if these rockwells down here have the uni joints or the other type.

Thanks for all the help CJ Lagos. I owe you some :beer: :beer: .

Oh yea your rig looks absolutely killer. Gonna make myself one just like it except its a Land Rover :flipoff2:

Sam

Wow,

Great thread you guys!

Sam...I love your rig...where can I see more?

I know you're talking Rockwells, but how are the 44's standing the 42" TSL's (my tire of choice for my new project)

Originally posted by BillaVista
Wow,

Great thread you guys!

Sam...I love your rig...where can I see more?

I know you're talking Rockwells, but how are the 44's standing the 42" TSL's (my tire of choice for my new project)

Check out http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39384

Ive only just put this thing together. It used to be a 76' Range Rover that was cut in half with a tray back on the rear with scout II dana 44s. I have now just put the series 2a body on it and also the new 42in tyres. So it has changed a lot over the past couple of months and have got some weight distribution problems (too front heavy) and rear anti squat probs also (with the larger tyres and light rear springs and light rear weight it really wants to hop in the rear) so I gotta fix these and get some more wheeling in.

Only driven it a couple of times, it has got temporary wheel spacers on at the moment so I havent wheeled it that hard. I have to wait till I get some proper wheel spacers.

My current gearing isnt low enough (55:1 with 4.09 diff gears) so I do need to regear which will cost some money and basically I really dont think the d44s will hold them so I dont want to waste money on regearing. This is why Im looking at the rockwells.

What my plan is to wheel it as is (with the 4.09gears in the d44s) and see how it goes and if I brake too much then I will start to do something with rockwells (d60 fronts are too expensive in Aus and the rockwells are cheap).

So hopefully over the next few weeks I will get the spacers, redo the rear links and shift a bit of weight around and then I can have some fun and see how it goes.

Sam