Hello all,

I have been lurking on pirate for a couple years now as I have built a scout buggy. So I figured I would start off by introducing myself and posting some pics of the scout. I have a '76 scout buggy with a fuel injected 350. Dana 60 fron and dana 70HD read. It has a 700r4 with a 203/205 doubler, and I am running 7.17 gears. Yeah everything is kind of overkill, but what the hell. I built a custom four link on the rear, using great info from pirate and the four link calculator. Anyhow here are some pics of the scout and the fourlink that I built. Question is, I took it out for the maiden voyage and busted the cross bar off of my axle, which busted my $600.00 drive shaft:mad3:. From the pics can anyone tell me what I F?!%ed up? I think I just needed to support the cross bar better, just want to get everyone elses opinion before I get to far into rebuilding it.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_f0feef50.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/f0feef50.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_77bfc3ae.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/77bfc3ae.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_6eead4c7.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/6eead4c7.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_f4578a4d.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/f4578a4d.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_01cfbea6.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/01cfbea6.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_a80cd991.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/a80cd991.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_93472889.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/93472889.jpg)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/th_f957e831.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/twiztidscout/f957e831.jpg)


Thanks,

Dan

Not sure but I always thought the lower links were strait and the uppers were in the V shape. It seems to me you got them backward but I have not built a 4link yet. Some of the other members are going to have better input than me sorry :(

You have been here a couple of years and built your bridge like that?

It is done both ways, I put all the measurement in the fourlink calculator and they came out good. I will post all that tomorrow. It looks to me that all I need to do is redisgn the hoop, crossmember, that goes over the pumpkin so that it can take the amount of torque the system is putting on it. I just don't want to do this until I get opinions on whether I need to move or adjust my links.

Dan

Old scout,

Yeah, yeah, I know. I newbie who thought that it would hold up. Like I said, I assume that is the problem, just wanted to make sure before I tore it apart. Anyone have any pics of any good bridges, since search is not working for a couple days?

Dan

http://beer.thisdysfunctional.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4424&stc=1&d=1137197242

this is how i did mine. it is on a 14 bolt, but something like this welded to the housing would work

That is kind of what I was thinking. It seems like it needs to be braced from moving back and forth, because that is were all the torque is being applied. I will post pics when I get it done. Any other ideas would be very much welcomed.

Dan

Where did you go to break your cherry? :smokin:

You have a lot of stress on that hoop. I have mine tied into a ring that I made to give it more beef. I have hammered it on pavement in reverse and forward and the thing is rock solid. Here is a pic....

http://www.northtexasbinders.com/normalpictures/2047.jpg?120079

I think you need to spend more time reading.are you using rubber bushings on both ends?it looks like your links are crashing into each other,on the picture anyway.that axle mount looks really weak,I mean weak sauce weak.110 flux core welder?

Cut it out and start over,all of it.

Nice brake lines too.learn how to double flare so you can get the right length lines.every time.

Have some self respect:shaking:

The Copper Cowboy, I broke it in the steet in the front of my house.

BChesley, That looks good. I figured I needed to brace it from moving front to back.

Binder Bound, I used Heims on the frame end and polybushings on the axle end. My welder is a miller 175, problem is those are when I first was learning to weld. From everything I have seen and all the links I have read and the pics I have looked at I don't think the problem is the setup of of the system itself, I think it is the setup of the bridge. Though I could be wrong. It is hard to see in the pics, but I used a 3x3 piece of 1/4 wall square tube to go across the frame to weld the tabs for the lower links to. The upper links, I built a 1/4 wall bracket and welded it to the frame, I then put the bolt through the frame and the bracket to insure that there is not any movement. I also left the option open for me to be able to move the link downward in case I need to adjust the system. My biggest problem is that I sent up the system about a year and a half ago, and the only thing I welded at that time was the bridge to the axle. I took it all apart about six months ago and welded everything else, I, in my infinite wisdom, decided that the bridge would be just fine so I left it. OOPS!!!!! The brake lines are going to be re-done, I just bought those from autozone to do the test drive. I have the double flare tool and 25' of line in my garage.

dan

I sorry but I don't think that 175 has enough poop to weld on the axle tubes or housing. My truss is 2x3" .250 wall, plus tied into the diff cover. The truss will see a lot of force.

it's got enough juice (mm175), but you really need to pre-heat those tubes as uniform as you can to prevent warping the tubes. Plus the pre-heating will help the penetration too and you won't get as bad of a cold start.

I will try and get access to a 225 welder, but if not I will just heat the tubes before I weld to them. I have been told not to weld to cast, but I have also heard that if you heat it up a little bit, I could weld to it. I am thinking the only way to do this right is to weld to the cast pumpkin.


dan

Your 175 is fine...and you don't need .250 wall tubing IF you properly gusset your bridge. I ran a 1.75 x .125 wall DOM bridge on my Mog axle and it never had an issue. I ripped the a-arm link apart twice though..so this give you an idea of the stress that it took.

Edit: And I would weld to the cast too. Either use higher nickle content rod, or a deep penetrating rod like 6010 or 6011. (I've used both sucessfully on cast housings, but the high nickle rod welds much better)

one thing that i see right off the bat is that you lowers are above the center line of the axle?

why are you running tham on top of the axle tube :shaking:

one thing that i see right off the bat is that you lowers are above the center line of the axle?

why are you running tham on top of the axle tube :shaking:

I'd say Ground Clearance, though running 'em to the center of the tube wouldn't hurt, but maybe he needs 'em raised up to make the rest of the system pencil out as far as AS and roll center.

I started them out on the center of the axle, but when i put the frame mounts where they had to be everything was off as far as roll center and AS goes as tsm1mt said. Moving them to the top of the axle allowed all my numbers to be more within range.

Oh, and by the way my AS is 67% and my roll center height is 29" and my roll axis angle is -12 degrees.

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is your extreme shock angle. They are going to be pretty much worthless laid over at that angle.

problem is those are when I first was learning to weld.

This is the problem for sure. The mitered cross mount is ugly but should hold up if welded properly. And yes weld it to the top of the diff.

I'd say Ground Clearance, though running 'em to the center of the tube wouldn't hurt, but maybe he needs 'em raised up to make the rest of the system pencil out as far as AS and roll center.


hmmm....just saying that it seems like you wouldn't have enough vertical seperation on the axle end... or the frame...which would certianly give you such a low AS #

it does look like you only have 4-5" of seperation at the axle.that is alot of stress on the mounts. if i were you i would move the lowers down to the bottem of the tube. i never gave a shit about all the #'s when i built my 3 links. they worked well were i put them so that is where they were left.

O.K, If I move me upper link out so there is 10 inches of seperation, and I move my lower links down to the centerline of the axle this is the number that I would have. AS= 75% Roll center height= 29" Roll axis angle= -11.

So I will rebuild my bridge, using gussets and welding to the pumpkin, move out my upper links, and lower my lower links all at the axle side.

The shocks and springs are hopefully temporary, until I can afford some coil overs.

I think you need to spend more time reading.are you using rubber bushings on both ends?it looks like your links are crashing into each other,on the picture anyway.that axle mount looks really weak,I mean weak sauce weak.110 flux core welder?

Cut it out and start over,all of it.

Nice brake lines too.learn how to double flare so you can get the right length lines.every time.

Have some self respect:shaking:


Damn

You are a major asshole just incase you didnt know.

You have been here a while and can surely add something helpful to this mans thread but insisted you insist on being a little bitch about it and trying to belittle him.
Not everyone can be as cool as you and know everything so learn some tact and help people out and try to let your PMS turn you into a total bitch all the time.

rfrankb4, thanks for looking out. It is sometimes easier to just ignore so that the thread keeps progressing. I am getting some great info from those who want to contribute, I will not worry about those who want to waste time and space by being ignorant. Constructive criticism is great, and this is how we all learn. Anyhow, back to the thread, and thanks for all the input so far everyone. I will get it all re-worked this weekend and post new pics.

Dan

O.K, If I move me upper link out so there is 10 inches of seperation, and I move my lower links down to the centerline of the axle this is the number that I would have. AS= 75% Roll center height= 29" Roll axis angle= -11.

So I will rebuild my bridge, using gussets and welding to the pumpkin, move out my upper links, and lower my lower links all at the axle side.

The shocks and springs are hopefully temporary, until I can afford some coil overs.


Trust me on this: Take those numbers and the program that you used to create them and throw them away... If you don't truely understand what the numbers means, then why try to strive to reach a certain goal? And what happens when the trail switches downwards 30º and you center of gravity that everything is based on shift to a different point and all you number are skewed?

I like how your lowers are on top of the axle. This helps flatten out your overall suspension. However, I usually try to 9" of seperation at the axle end. So this will require you to raise your bridge up accordingly. As I mentioned before, gusset it properly.

Not really trying to get anything exact. I am using the four link calculator, found here on pirate. Just using this as a guide, because I have never built a linked suspension before. I figured this would at least give me some guides as to where to place the links so I am not just shooting in the dark.

I'd say the problem isn't so much in your numbers, as in the beef of your setup. those numbers mean different things for different styles of wheeling. and are essentially guidlines for a rig in a static position. I'd reccomend just making a more beefy truss and going through everything else and making sure it is all strong enough as well, just so you don't have a chain of things that break. With that said neat buggy, do you plan on skinning it with some scout body parts?

toocoolforschoolTJ,
Thanks!!!! Yeah, I got a scout hood that is ready to be put on, with the IH logo painted on to it. I will post pics. I am also planning on putting modified scout fenders on it to cover the cowls/body post on the side of the scout. I also have a scout grill that I shortened and got rhino lined, but due to the cage design on the front of the scout, I don't think it is going to work.

Dan

You are a major asshole just incase you didnt know.
Damn funny thread.

asshole or not he is right. :flipoff2:

The beauty of a the 4 link calculator is it has demystified a link suspension. As long as you have a measuring tape and internet access you can custom fab a suspension. :D :laughing:

At least you have the stones to own up to it and try and fix the problem.

I think the mitered tube is hack. If you don't have a bender use some 1/2 or 5/8" plate to make your truss/bridge on the next round. If you are sketchy on your welds tack it up and take it somewhere to finish.