Since Damian was asking earlier.. and has the same thing in mind..

I'd taken some pictures and got around to getting 'em uploaded..

Keep in mind my engine has been raised 1.25", when you consider where things are.

After dinging the pass bottom corner in, just from the lowest "rib" down.. it fits between the frame rail, and sits on the corner gussets.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0011_002.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0012_002.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0013_002.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0015_003.jpg

Lower hose fitting is smack in the middle of the frame rail.

Here, with the engine installed (again, 1.25" engine lift)

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0014_004.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0013_003.sized.jpg

Lower hose should be easy, slipping a 1.75" universal hose over the fitting, and the 2" lower SII hose over that.

Upper will be more fun.. a 1.5 hose isn't quite 2" OD.. I had some ideas about using rollcage tubing, welding some adapters together, etc.. but instead, I'm going to try going for some :bling:

I have a 24" long SS hose coming with a 1.5 reducer on one end, and a 1.75 fitting on the other - and a 1.75 to 2" adapter.

This should replace the entire upper radiator hose assembly, and I don't have to deal with getting the bends right, etc.

Still not certain how I'll mount it.

Leaning towards a lower plate with rubber bushings for the bottom to sit on, then do something similar for the top, but probably run a crossbar over the top of the radiator, that I could then use to cinch down AND stabilize it front to back.

Tom,
When I put that rad in my Scout I had new necks the same sizes as the inlet/outlet welded on and just used universal rad hose. Been working great for 3 or 4 years now.

Not sure how much of your front clip is going back in, but the placement has to be right on the money. The radiator cap sits in a little notch the factory has cut out of the hood support beam, and if you shave a Taurus fan down to nearly-rubbing you have about 1/2" between the water pump and fan.

Of course, if you're tubing the front out you don't have any of these issues and I envy you. :)

Darel

Wait...I see tube. Never mind, it wasn't visible in the pic I was referencing.

D

Tom,
When I put that rad in my Scout I had new necks the same sizes as the inlet/outlet welded on and just used universal rad hose. Been working great for 3 or 4 years now.


If this were for a "stock-ish" Scout, that's what I'd be doing - having the fittings adapted to a SII and welding on the mounts.

But..


Not sure how much of your front clip is going back in, but the placement has to be right on the money. The radiator cap sits in a little notch the factory has cut out of the hood support beam, and if you shave a Taurus fan down to nearly-rubbing you have about 1/2" between the water pump and fan.

Of course, if you're tubing the front out you don't have any of these issues and I envy you. :)


I don't think the Taurus fan will fit with the radiator in the stock location without moving it forward a bunch, even with a stock radiator, which I was running (the one you gave me, actually) until October when I rear-ended someone on the start-line.

I built a removable radiator hoop after the roll last year, and the stock rad used to mount to that, so now the Ford radiator will mount up to it in some fashion.

All tube front with sheetmetal skins hung off the tilt front for this Scout.

I don't want to customize the radiator for the Scout.. I want to customize the Scout for the radiator.

Mostly because there's a good chance this radiator will meet an untimely demise as well.. :D

Silly question...

What Ford application is this radiator from?

THANKS!

Silly question...

What Ford application is this radiator from?

THANKS!

:shrug:

it's one of those "Universal" Ford racing radiators out of the back of Summit and such.

$159 from Summit +s/h (I paid $200 from my local radiator buddy)

The GM radiators have the fittings in the wrong locations.. the Ford fittings are just the wrong sizes. ;)

General shape and size is different on the radiator, too. This is the smaller of the two Ford radiators commonly offered, and I had to ding the lower edge to get it to sink between the frame rails - not much, though.

I was looking at getting a "univeral radiator" too, as Scout radiators are an odd size. (too tall) I need to ask IHonly Jeff what he did, as I saw a summit rad. on one of his projects. I think he just used a different neck??

Tom why did you raise your engine? oil pan issues? I thought most people were sliding them back and down for better center of gravity. Also instead of making new frame mounts, would a spacer have worked for you?

Not the best photo

I was looking at getting a "univeral radiator" too, as Scout radiators are an odd size. (too tall) I need to ask IHonly Jeff what he did, as I saw a summit rad. on one of his projects. I think he just used a different neck??


The simple method would be to have someone weld new necks on (top one needs to be a 90 and both need to be 2" or so) and angle brackets and use the stock setup, though it might be a bit wide for the stock core support still.

Since this radiator is at "high risk" of being wiped out, I'm going to customize my setup around the radiator, instead of making the radiator fit the Scout.. so I'm going to see how my bling SS radiator hose kit works out.


Tom why did you raise your engine? oil pan issues? I thought most people were sliding them back and down for better center of gravity. Also instead of making new frame mounts, would a spacer have worked for you?


Oil pan was fine. I wanted to move the engine down and back to lower the COG.. but the driveshaft was hitting the 727 at full bump, making the pan dump red stuff, which results in the Scout slowing down. ;)

I didn't want to lower the stops more, so I had to raise the 727..

I didn't HAVE to raise the engine, and didn't need to do the 1.25" I wound up doing.. and a spacer would've done the job.. but while all of this was happening I folded the driver's side engine mount. The mount remained attached to the frame, but the flat section bent down, and the corners bent up and out - with enough pressure, I think you could fold the engine flat spot down flush against the frame rail.

This bent the 1/4" (or is it 5/16?) engine mount bracket on the engine, and damaged the indestructible RPT engine mount.

So the engine mount (frame side) is a weak point, and needed rebuilt anyhow.

..so I opted to raise the engine while I was at it. I didn't really want the 1.25".. 3/4" would've been fine, but 1.25" turns out to be how much "lift" you get if you make the mount flush with the top of the frame, which I wanted to do for ease and strength - the top plate of the mount wraps over the top of the frame, instead of being JUST welded to the inner face.

Should make it very difficult for the mounts to collapse again.. plus I gusseted the center of the mount for good measure.

I'm currently pondering cutting them back off and dropping the top plate 1/2" though.. 1.25" may have just been a tad bit much, thanks to the driveshaft angles..

Some progress.

I welded some 2" channel I had to the frame, just behind the front crossmember.

The bottom lips of the radiator sit over this. Some camper-tape/foam-rubber is attached to the underside of the radiator for some cushion.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0007_007.sized.jpg

The radiator hoop I built for a stock SII radiator back in place.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0010_007.sized.jpg

And with the radiator sitting in place, with the first placement of the fan/shroud.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0012_004.sized.jpg

I set the radiator height such that the lower hose is a close match, but that puts the upper hose as you see it, with the outlet pointing right at the V-belt for the alternator. D'oh.

Revise the shroud/fan mount for more clearance.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0037_001.sized.jpg

That's just 1/2"x.120 strap, some 1/4" bolts (all thread on the ends cut to length).

Lower mounts are "u-nuts" which are low-profile enough that the radiator still sits over the C-channel.

If I'd used regular nuts, I was going to notch the C-channel.

And back in mock-up place.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0040_001.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0041_001.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0043_001.sized.jpg

I switched to the York AC + alt bracket to lower the alternator and get the belt out of the way.

The upper bar now visible is 1x1x.120 angle. It will be U-bolted to either upright, spaced out as needed.

The "L" brackets over the top of the radiator were bent in my press brake, and will hook over the top (rear) of the radiator, come forward, and be bolted down to the angle cross bar to hold the radiator "forward" and down against the lower C-channel mount.

In the picture, the upper hose is hitting the alt bracket and holding the radiator up. Final position will be with the top of the radiator tilted forward a bit, to keep the hose from the bracket and provide more water-pump snout clearance.

Where'd you get that carb bonnet, Tom?

Where'd you get that carb bonnet, Tom?

Ebay. Same as Bill's.

$50-ish after freight, comes with some ricer-bling shiny aluminum tube and a cone filter.

Ultimate goal is to duct it around to the old heater hole, but that's not a priority at the moment. I need more 4" aluminum tube and some elbows if I'm going to pull that off.

At that point, I'd probably ditch the cone filter and put a big 14x3 or so K&N inside the cab on the firewall instead. :D

The 9" K&N I was using just wasn't providing enough air. The little 304 would suck the filter in on itself when I'd try for more than ~6300rpm. I'm hoping more air will free up some more top-end.

I dont know the rules of your class, but why not mount the rad in the back? You could run a BIG rad, get better weight dist, and probly not have to buy another one for a long time.

i'm sure you thought of it already, im just asking.

I dont know the rules of your class, but why not mount the rad in the back? You could run a BIG rad, get better weight dist, and probly not have to buy another one for a long time.

i'm sure you thought of it already, im just asking.

I've thought of this several times. Some friends have done it with success, many more have fought it for a long time before making it work right.

You ADD weight by moving the radiator, since you add that much tube and water. Not a huge deal, but something to think about.

I thought about doing it after the roll last year. I thought more about it this time around, too.. but both times decided "Nah"

It's easier to leave it up front, and I'm building a bumper to keep from tearing it up again. :)

Aside from being lazy, the next biggest factor was.. how/where do I route the darn hoses!

I can't run them under the tub without a big body lift.

Can't run them without lifting the tub, because the headers take up any extra room between the frame rail and the engine/transmission. The scattershield then gets in the way as you get to the tunnel area.

I could go THROUGH the body tub, which makes me a little nervous, but not overly.. but even at that point, I couldn't figure out how to run the coolant from the front of the engine to the rear of the engine.

The shock hoops are in the way of going around the side, along with the alternator, p/s pump, and steering box/column.

The only solution that panned out was to go UP and OVER the engine, running the coolant over the valve covers to the rear of the engine, then probably going right through the center of the cab (because I can't go around the 727 and scatter shield, can't go under the tub without a body lift, can't go between 727 and frame because of the exhaust and Dana 20).

That would work.

But I didn't like the idea of big coolant tubes running over my valvecovers.

First, I'd have to support them, then there's the PITA maintenance aspect.

The entire front clip removes in a few minutes.. to make maintenance easier. The idea of tubing right over the valve covers doesn't make maintenance easier if I need to pull a valvecover (haven't yet on this motor), or get at various things.

If I rework the shock hoops and outboard them a bit more, a rear radiator with coolant tubes running down the frame becomes a possibility, and then I can support the tubes with the frame, keep the water as low as I can, and maybe hoop the floor to keep the tubes out of the passenger compartment.

Class rules don't say anything about where the radiator is, so I'm OK from that standpoint.

From a "big time racing" perspective, the moment I put coils on the racerunners I'm screwed out of Class 3 anyhow.. at which point, the engine NEEDS to come back to give me a shot at more front travel without tearing up the 1310 U-joints..

The 9" K&N I was using just wasn't providing enough air. The little 304 would suck the filter in on itself when I'd try for more than ~6300rpm. I'm hoping more air will free up some more top-end.
You do know that redline on a 304 is about 3800 rpm, right? :D Are you sure you won't :nuke: a motor with that many rpms?

You do know that redline on a 304 is about 3800 rpm, right? :D Are you sure you won't :nuke: a motor with that many rpms?

Redline is 3900! :flipoff2:

I've already :nuke:'d *this* engine once (and two others before it, but not at the same level of RPM) from sustained 5000+rpm operation. Seems IH didn't engineer them to oil particularly well at that level of operation. :D

That said, after replacing the bent rod, turning the crank and putting new bearings in it, I made some changes to the oiling system, then dialed in sometiming and the carb, and ran it for the past two years.

Saw more RPM (6300rpm.. had a hard time getting 6k before) through the lights, and after 2 seasons I pulled the pan and found the bearings still at 0.0250 clearance, just like when I put it together last.

So the oiling system changes seem to have done the job.

When I rolled the Scout last February, I was in 1st place in the Baja. I had blown up the transmission, and only had 1st gear that race.

So I ran the little 304 at well over 5000rpm for 25 minutes or so, non-stop. With 4.88s and 31s, that's 40-something mph.

Good enough to roll with 5 minutes to go and still take 2nd place. :D

So.. a 304 WILL hold up to sustained 6000rpm operation without blowing up.. if built right. :D

I want to see if more air cleaner will help get more RPM out of it. Conventional wisdom is that the square-port heads are choking it, but mebbe there's more here. I'm also still running a fairly mild cam.

If Mike would hurry up and make me an aluminum 4V intake for this 304...

If Mike would hurry up and make me an aluminum 4V intake for this 304...

I'm sure you saw this.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=235453&stc=1&d=1142975230


Did you "port" your oil returns in the head?
What about running zero wt synthetic oil for better flow?
5-30 oil pours out of the bottle like water.

Did I miss outside the frame?use those 'c'shaped hanger for PVC pipe and mount it right to the outside of the frame.if your gonna use the weight thing,you can't if your gonna build a gaurd.I think that's more weight than a couple extra gallons of water and 2 6' pieces of tubing.especially hanging off the front of your already nose heavy rig.with it in the back your adding weight low and rear.can't loose IMO.

I'm sure you saw this.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=235453&stc=1&d=1142975230


Yep, but no short-deck SV intake yet.


Did you "port" your oil returns in the head?
What about running zero wt synthetic oil for better flow?
5-30 oil pours out of the bottle like water.

Oil returns were ported originally. Rods were lightened and then polished to shed oil.

Originally I ran a SII oil pump and pan, with 6qt of oil. Sustained high RPM operation, and some water from time to time, resulted in #7 rod bearing spinning after two or three years.

When I put it back together, I painted the valley with Glyptal to promote better oil drainback, then changed to a rear-sump 74/75 truck pan that doesn't have the "hump" in the middle, but does have a baffle.

I now run 7qts.

After 2 seasons, no rod or main wear.

Next time I open it up, I'll probably throw a crank scraper on for kicks, and maybe Ismail will have the aluminum 304 4V ready.

In the meantime, I still have a cast iron custom 4v 304 intake if anyone wants one..

Update:

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0003_007.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0004_008.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0002_007.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/DCP_0001_007.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/PlainGallery/2006DevilWinterOverHaul/IMG_5456.sized.jpg

I've now had it filled and ran it up to temp.. no issues thus far.

Upper hose is the bling stainless job shown. Moving to the AC bracket fixed my V-belt intereference problem.

Lower hose is a stock lower with a short sleeve over the Ford output - works fine.

I had to cut the stock upper radiator hose and sleeve it over the stainless hose at the water neck - so I couldn't use the fancy anodized clamp cover there. :pout:

Fan still works, and clears everything.

Upper mount is some "J" straps of 2x1/8 over the top of the radiator and cinched forward and down onto a 1x1 angle across the front of the radiator.

Both tranny coolers are "camper taped" to the radiator to provide a good seal (max air flow) and then a piece of steel strap across the face to hold them in place.

Ran it up to 190-deg - had some coolant weeping out of the overflow (no bottle yet) - but no leaks from anywhere else, and turning the fan on brought the temps back down.

So far so good.