Permitted Axles List

[CronusTRD]

I think we should have a list of the permitted axles from particular vehicles to address any further questions.

As I see it:

Allowed
79-85 Front
79-85 Rear
86-95 Rear

Replacement Housings are permitted.

Not Allowed
Any FJ 40, 60 or 80 Axle, front or rear
No Tacoma axles, or 96+ 4runner axles.
No Dually Toyota Axles (U-Haul axle)
No Tundra or T-100 axles.

3rd Members that are allowed:
Fj80 Front 8" Hypinion/E-locker versions
79-95 Toyota 4 cyl and 6 cylinder 8" 3rds
8" E-locker from 96+ Tacoma/4runner

Not allowed:
FJ80 Rear
FJ 60 3rds
FJ 40 3rds
Tundra/Tacoma Non-Elocker 3rds. Easily distinguishable as the 3rd member bolt pattern is a larger than the 8" 3rd. All the studs along the housing would need to be relocated, unlike the two require for the e-locker swap.

My opinion is that custom widths should not be allowed, as it defeats the spec concept. If someone wants to go wider, let them use spacers or different backspacing on their wheels.

[desertoy]

I have a problem with 2 things.

3rd Members that are allowed:
8" E-locker from 96+ Tacoma/4runner

and

My opinion is that custom widths should not be allowed

The only problem with custom widths is that it opened a hug can of contraversy.

As far as I know the 96+ tacoma 8" will not fit in a stock 79-85 housing.

[CronusTRD]

Why? What is your reasoning?

[CronusTRD]

As far as I know the 96+ tacoma 8" will not fit in a stock 79-85 housing.


Neither does an FJ80. Both have different bolt patterns from the stock housing (two studs) and require the same housing mods.

Hell, the gaskets are the same, just flipped different directions.

[Brian Ellinger]

Neither does an FJ80. Both have different bolt patterns from the stock housing (two studs) and require the same housing mods.

Hell, the gaskets are the same, just flipped different directions.

Killing this now. The bolt pattern for hi and low pinion are IDENTICAL.

[a2b]

3rd Members that are allowed:
8" E-locker from 96+ Tacoma/4runner

As far as I know the 96+ tacoma 8" will not fit in a stock 79-85 housing.

ya, the original rules werent meant to allow taco thirds. they need to be expounded on to exclude the taco 8" third.

[Air Ride]

The rule book is going to end up looking like the LA phone book.
Just put this blanket statement in the rules
"If it didn't come off of an 79 to ?? you cant use it unless the rules specifically state that you can"

[Heywood]

Since aftermarket housings are allowed, In my opinion that means ANY housing is allowed. No need to make a list of which is and which isint.

Front needs to have 79-85 PU/4rnr KNUKLES, birfs and 8"r&p.
If you can get all that on any housing it should meet the requirements.

Rear needs to have 8" R&p and toy drum brakes.

I dont see a need to add any more details.

Everyone knows or should know which 3rds are allowed and which arent.

Hobies allready been over the reasoning behind allowing any width.

As far as changing any rules I dont think any rules should be changed untill the season is over.

[CronusTRD]

Killing this now. The bolt pattern for hi and low pinion are IDENTICAL.


That's not true. For example, the gaskets are mirror images of each other and two different part numbers. The difference is small however.

http://4-low.com/temp/e-locker-differences.gif

From my understanding, regular V6 gears you would use in a pre-tacoma carrier would fit the e-locker carrier, so where is the difference what would exclude it? What makes the FJ80 locker acceptable, and the Tacoma locker unacceptable. I'm just not seeing the logic here.

Camo had addressed this before the class even began

I'll put in another vote for YES TO EFI. I'd have a hard time pulling it off of my Legends class truck if I were to someday build it to this class.

Also, I havent had the time to sift through everything but the outline states only aftermarket lockers are allowed. Does this mean no OEM lockers are allowed?

any locker allowed

Why would this have changed?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1819017&postcount=364
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1819395&postcount=365

[Tim Florian]

The fj80 third, non-elocker will bolt right up with no issues. The e-locker third needs some modification.

The issue your talking about above and Camo saying any locker is allowed, in my opion refers to the locker itself, not the complete third. FWIW


Why is everyone fighting the rules so much here. They are what they are. Live with it.

[ATLRoach]

ya, the original rules werent meant to allow taco thirds. they need to be expounded on to exclude the taco 8" third.


Then why allow the high pinion e-locker FJ80 thirds? It would be no different than running a low pinion Taco E-locker third. Both would require modification to the housing to allow them. Kinda makes no sense to exclude one without the other.

[CronusTRD]

They only want to allow the high pinion 3rd member w/o the locker.

[Brian Ellinger]

That's not true. For example, the gaskets are mirror images of each other and two different part numbers. The difference is small however.



Think about it, the motors interchange, this person is incorrect.

[Pook]

They only want to allow the high pinion 3rd member w/o the locker.

Heywood's running a hipinion elocker i think.

[Heywood]

Heywood's running a hipinion elocker i think.

Yes I am, It was less than $800 new from Toyota, and has been problem free:D
I was/am under the impression a rear elocker 3rd is "8" 3rd and legal.

I think the idea of the rules is to keep it affordable, where a guy with a stock welded 4cyl diff is on the same level or close too anyways.

[desertoy]

Yes I am, It was less than $800 new from Toyota, and has been problem free:D
I was/am under the impression a rear elocker 3rd is "8" 3rd and legal.

I think the idea of the rules is to keep it affordable, where a guy with a stock welded 4cyl diff is on the same level or close too anyways.

Did you have to modify your housing (drill holes, change stud size)? If so, it sounds like you are outside of the rules.

[Heywood]

Did you have to modify your housing (drill holes, change stud size)? If so, it sounds like you are outside of the rules.

Are you telling me you dont know how a Hp elock 3rd goes into an 85 housing?
And you dont know the difference between the so called 8" and 8.4" 3rds?

Or are you just trying to stir more shit up?

And outside the rules?

How so?

Directly from the rules

"Must use Toyota 8" third members (FJ80, V6 or 4cyl)"

[Pook]

I would want to think that the elocker would be allowed as a cheap alternative to the blingy ARB... helps the junk yard scrounger if they need it

I know around here its harder and harder to get the older toy diffs and parts, the wreckers don't carry anything that old, and you pretty much need to find someone thats partying one out.
What is th ebig deal with the Taco rear end? Its way stronger?

I can understand the bigger knuckles and birfs from a landcruiser steering setup etc... on a front diff being an advantage.

[Nissan Recovery Team]

I'm still baffled why this topic is such a sticking point with some people.

I had some bling ARBs lined up for my build, even was going to pull the trigger on a rear diamond..but you know what...FAWK that.

Found a 4cyl rear and going to run welded front and rears with a twin stick and FROR hydro assist just to be as basic as possible. Retro.

This is a drivers class so my thoughts are to quite worrying about this and that, get the sum bitch built then wheel the shit out of it.:flipoff2:

All these minute differences (arguing about rules) is not going to make anyone more competitive or a better driver.

:D

[Pook]

I'm still baffled why this topic is such a sticking point with some people.

I had some bling ARBs lined up for my build, even was going to pull the trigger on a rear diamond..but you know what...FAWK that.

Found a 4cyl rear and going to run welded front and rears with a twin stick and FROR hydro assist just to be as basic as possible. Retro.

This is a drivers class so my thoughts are to quite worrying about this and that, get the sum bitch built then wheel the shit out of it.:flipoff2:

All these minute differences (arguing about rules) is not going to make anyone more competitive or a better driver.

:D

I'll be running th elow budget welded 4 cylinder thirds for the tinbender jambo anyways... between building the ftoy and a new shop cash is getting hard to find.

[Stupid frnch jackasS]

Did you have to modify your housing (drill holes, change stud size)? If so, it sounds like you are outside of the rules.
I'm pretty sure a rear elocker has been offered as a factory option on 1990-1995 "hilux" minitrucks on certain markets.

[Nissan Recovery Team]

I'll be running th elow budget welded 4 cylinder thirds for the tinbender jambo anyways... between building the ftoy and a new shop cash is getting hard to find.


Amen on the cash thing...my wife and I are doing some H.I. projects:rolleyes:

Several weeks ago Hobie sent a PM with an invite to call him. We talked Ftoy for a half hour or so. Ever since that call, my thoughts towards how to build this has changed and keeping in the spirit of FToy is important. My enlightenment:laughing: :grinpimp: Less is more.

[desertoy]

Are you telling me you dont know how a Hp elock 3rd goes into an 85 housing?
And you dont know the difference between the so called 8" and 8.4" 3rds?

Or are you just trying to stir more shit up?

And outside the rules?

How so?

Directly from the rules

"Must use Toyota 8" third members (FJ80, V6 or 4cyl)"

That is what I am telling you. I don't know anything about Tacoma's because tacoma parts are not legal in formula Toy.

[a2b]

Found a 4cyl rear and going to run welded front and rears with a twin stick and FROR hydro assist just to be as basic as possible. Retro.
:D


:eek:

IMO, welded front is cool for backup, but not for comp or wheeling. you will defintely want the howe system just for turning that sucker. at the least, i would put a lockright in the front. i am thankful all the time i have an arb in the front. it keeps me from breaking stuff. when the whole rig is vertical on its nose and you need to take a hard left, you dont want to be locked during that time. ask bobby, welded fronts or spools, just wear the heck out of birfs.

[Pook]

:eek:

IMO, welded front is cool for backup, but not for comp or wheeling. you will defintely want the howe system just for turning that sucker. at the least, i would put a lockright in the front. i am thankful all the time i have an arb in the front. it keeps me from breaking stuff. when the whole rig is vertical on its nose and you need to take a hard left, you dont want to be locked during that time. ask bobby, welded fronts or spools, just wear the heck out of birfs.


well I thought about it and just ordered an elocker, makes sense that it'd be hell on the front diff parts having a welded diff in the rocks. Up here I'd run it for a while but with going to the jambo and moab this year in the same trip I'd rather have one less thing to worry about breaking.

[Nissan Recovery Team]

I have the ARB sitting on the bench...we'll see I guess..know what you mean and it's not my first choice, but setting up gears is not something I can do myself and no one around here can do them either.

Would have to send away so I may as well run them welded for now and see what unfolds later in the year I guess..

[Rob_O]

Since aftermarket housings are allowed, In my opinion that means ANY housing is allowed. No need to make a list of which is and which isint.

Front needs to have 79-85 PU/4rnr KNUKLES, birfs and 8"r&p.
If you can get all that on any housing it should meet the requirements.

Rear needs to have 8" R&p and toy drum brakes.

I dont see a need to add any more details.

Going by this, the E-locker and the Tacoma/Tundra rear axles so equipped should be legal as the "correct" ring gear is used.

Pair up the Tundra rear with a FJ80 front axle and you gain 5" of track up front, almost 9" in the rear with lockers in both ends for at least a few $$$ less than the cost of custom housings and ARBs. This gives the junkyard scroungers a chance to get into the game for less $$$ which I can't see being a bad thing for the class

[desertoy]

Since aftermarket housings are allowed, In my opinion that means ANY housing is allowed. No need to make a list of which is and which isint.

Front needs to have 79-85 PU/4rnr KNUKLES, birfs and 8"r&p.
If you can get all that on any housing it should meet the requirements.

Rear needs to have 8" R&p and toy drum brakes.

I dont see a need to add any more details.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Going by this, the E-locker and the Tacoma/Tundra rear axles so equipped should be legal as the "correct" ring gear is used.

Pair up the Tundra rear with a FJ80 front axle and you gain 5" of track up front, almost 9" in the rear with lockers in both ends for at least a few $$$ less than the cost of custom housings and ARBs. This gives the junkyard scroungers a chance to get into the game for less $$$ which I can't see being a bad thing for the class

You guys keep making assumptions. Without the BOD approval you are setting yourselves up for a dissappointment.

[Rob_O]

You guys keep making assumptions. Without the BOD approval you are setting yourselves up for a dissappointment.

Not making any assumptions, just offering up an opinion to consider. Even as an entry level class, F-Toy can get kind of pricey and having more junkyard parts to use as an option can drive down the cost

[Nissan Recovery Team]

I totally agree with Desert Toy that you need to get BOD approval but if you read closely to what Heywood said: then what Rob O has described should be legal for the rear end at least. The FJ80 axle up front is a stretch unless you plan to degrade the knuckles to the smaller minis?

IMO, messing with a FJ80 front end would be worthless for Ftoy. Time better spent on a 'legal' axle from the beginning.

Rob O, I know the search has been down, but look for a thread I started about running diamond axles and you'll see the width issue is discussed in detail and why you should'nt be to concerned about it...for Ftoy...narrower is better:smokin:

[Im4yotas]

You guys keep making assumptions.

Funny you say that, right after saying this -

That is what I am telling you. I don't know anything about Tacoma's because tacoma parts are not legal in formula Toy.



I didn't see anywhere in the rules that says you can't used Tacoma PARTS:shaking: Are you making assumptions, or making up rules:rolleyes:

Last time I checked, Sean was on the board of directors and you were not.

[Hammer Hog]

...diamond axles and you'll see the width issue is discussed in detail and why you shouldn't be to concerned about it...for Ftoy...narrower is better:smokin:

Just my 2 cents on after market axles such as “any width” Diamond axles.
I personally see a problem deviating from stock housings or at least stock widths.
The thing I see wrong with allowing the after market housing is the mere fact that it's allot stronger and that can be a huge advantage over the weaker stock housing. I'd be more apt to pound on my front end knowing it's more capable of the abuse over the stock housing. Also the Diamond housing is heavier and may be an advantage for center of gravity over a lighter trussed stock housing.
If after market housings can be allowed then why not allow other things such as rear disks brakes, etc. I think for the "Speck" class, it should remain as close to stock as it was originally sold out to be including no rear disks, etc.
I also don't buy into the reasoning that stock housings are becoming hard to find. I can find them with no problem. As far as strength goes, trusses are cheap to fab. So the need for an expensive after market axle housing baffles me especially when you are allowed to deviate on the widths. Wheel spacers are permitted if it’s a tire/spring clearance issue.
Running a wider axle with deeper back-spaced wheels as opposed to stock width axle with wheel spacers or shallower back-spaced wheels would have a huge advantage as in easier turning, better turning Ackerman, less stress on the knuckles and birfs, and so on. So if nothing else, if after market housings are allowed, I'd suggest sticking with stock dimensions just for the above advantages mentioned.

These rules need to be consistent and as close to stock specks as possible within reason as it started out to be. Otherwise the guy with the most bucks and a commercial shop has the advantage over the guy with a limited budget and a home garage for a shop.

[Pook]

a down side for wider diffs is the fact that its more expensive to have spare axles for custom widths, and no one else would have any spares to lend you if you needed some.

[a2b]

yes, everything yall have pointed out is valid. but while we are at pointing out valid facts about spec meaning and what not, lets talk about how the tire size is unlimited, or wheelbase can be different. wow, those 2 things right there make each buggy way more different than someone rolling up on a diamond housing. also, sure, get a wider housing. but a stock housing with spacers has a great scrub radius and we all know that can mean getting over or not getting over certain obstacles sometimes. so while we are all listing cons to aftermarket housings, lets list the cons to wheel base and tire size. the list will be alot longer and have more reasons NOT to allow those than not to allow aftermarket housings.
that said, my point is: no its not an advantage to have a diamond housing. the fact that they will hold up to more abuse is not an perfomrance advantage. if they are heavier, weld steel to your stocker. and stockers being hard to find had nothing to do with allowing aftermarket housings. :shaking:
descisions are made to allow the class to grow fast and to avoid headaches. i didnt see anyone complaining to allow EFI. then the EFI guys want to take away the penalty. I am the only one carb because i built mine when it was the rule to. i didnt complain, i saw the rules and built to them. then i heard everyone bitch and moan about EFI, so i had to vote. i voted to allow them to get the class to grow. and it did. the crybabies built their ftoys with EFI. great, now i can beat them with my carb.
our goal is to get the class to grow and for all buggys to be built within the same limits as to make them all equal within reason.
i see alot of IDEALS being thrown out there but no real world reason being input to those IDEALS. just like the guys that want to bend their own chassis, i understand their point. i understand why, and i understand why some think that its cheating not to let them do it. but i also understand why we have to have vendors. do you? i have some IDEALS too. lets not have world hunger anymore, and no more war, and hell, lets find homes for the homeless.:flipoff2:

why dont yall go back to complaing about mike hendrix being the only vendor or complain about camo for something he did:flipoff2: :laughing:

[Hammer Hog]

So what gives?

This morning there were 2 posts including one of mine following Hobie's (post #34). Why were they deleted?

[Nissan Recovery Team]

So what gives?

This morning there were 2 posts including one of mine following Hobie's (post #34). Why were they deleted?


Hey Steve, they did a board upgrade today about that time and the posts you and I made are gone:eek:

Lost some of my pms also...

[Hammer Hog]

...lets talk about how the tire size is unlimited, or wheelbase can be different. wow, those 2 things right there make each buggy way more different than someone rolling up on a diamond housing.

Tire size and wheelbase as originally ruled has never been an issue as far as I know.

also, sure, get a wider housing. but a stock housing with spacers has a great scrub radius and we all know that can mean getting over or not getting over certain obstacles sometimes.
Not true. Lets say I have a Diamond housing that is 4" wider over-all than stock and I am running 4" back-spaced wheels, and you are running a stock axle with 2" back-spaced wheels. The over-all width of my wheels are exactly the same as yours. You with the narrower axle with a shallower BS has 2 disadvantages not counting the extra strength of the Diamond housing.
1) Turning scrub is farther outside of the pivot point and will not turn as effectively.
2) Being that the wheel/tire is that much farther out from the pivot point, the axle ends, birfs, trunnion bearings, knuckles, steering arms, etc. are being stressed allot more than if the pivot point is closer to the center of the wheel.

The wider Diamond axle with the greater back-space DOES have a major advantage. Meaning that the guy w/o the wider axle is less likely to finish as opposed to the other due to breakage. I with the wider Diamond housing WOULD be able to hammer harder knowing I can take it better than you. You on the other hand would have to baby your rig and risk being later at the finish line and or risk breakage.

...no its not an advantage to have a diamond housing. the fact that they will hold up to more abuse is not an performance advantage. if they are heavier, weld steel to your stocker. and stockers being hard to find had nothing to do with allowing aftermarket housings. :shaking:

"Holding up to more abuse" IS a performance advantage. The weaker competitor has to baby his crap in order to survive the stronger competitor.

True, weight is not that big of an issue but it is an added bonus.

It WAS mentioned before as one of the excuses to allow the Diamond housing due to the alleged growing lack of availability of stock housings.


...our goal is to get the class to grow and for all buggys to be built within the same limits as to make them all equal within reason.

Don't get me wrong. I too want to see this class grow. But there has to be some consistency with the rules and the tweaking of rules. Before you know it, this class will be more of a pro-mod class than a "Budget Stock Spec" class as it was originally sold out to be.

The only thing that has be consistent has been the tweaking of rules. It started out with deviating from the stock motor and allowing the LC stroker. Might as well allow the 6 studded knuckles, rear disks, rear discos, and a 9" diff (It's only an inch bigger :shaking: :laughing: )

Consistency = Growing Class, and less room for BS :smokin:

EDIT: (Adding to what was lost in my deleted post)
I too like the bitch'n stuff on my F-Toy, even the Diamond housings. And I can afford all that stuff too if I want. But I if I was to spend that kinda money, I'd rather spend a bit more and do D60 outers w/ a 9" and a 9" at the rear w/ full floaters. But that wouldn't allow me to compete if I wanted to. So I will stay as is for now for when I do.

[a2b]

[QUOTE=Hammer Hog]Tire size and wheelbase as originally ruled has never been an issue as far as I know.

why arent you making it one? its a much bigger not spec things than the aftermarket housings. you love to start stuff. i'll start a thread on it if you want?

Not true. Lets say I have a Diamond housing that is 4" wider over-all than stock and I am running 4" back-spaced wheels, and you are running a stock axle with 2" back-spaced wheels. The over-all width of my wheels are exactly the same as yours. You with the narrower axle with a shallower BS has 2 disadvantages not counting the extra strength of the Diamond housing.
1) Turning scrub is farther outside of the pivot point and will not turn as effectively.
2) Being that the wheel/tire is that much farther out from the pivot point, the axle ends, birfs, trunnion bearings, knuckles, steering arms, etc. are being stressed allot more than if the pivot point is closer to the center of the wheel.

yes true. you got it right about wider axels and 4" BS wheels is less stress on the knuckles. but a stock housing with spacers will perform better than the wider. you know why? cuz of scrub radius. scrub radius rocks! but there is a compromise to everything. too much out too much stress, harder to turn but can grab certain things like a SOB....

The wider Diamond axle with the greater back-space DOES have a major advantage. Meaning that the guy w/o the wider axle is less likely to finish as opposed to the other due to breakage.

who is breaking a housing during a comp? no one. not one. and who is having to baby is crap? no one. come compete then you can discuss rules and what applys at comps and what doesnt.


"Holding up to more abuse" IS a performance advantage. The weaker competitor has to baby his crap in order to survive the stronger competitor.

yes i break housings all the time. i had one just split in have the other day:shaking:


It WAS mentioned before as one of the excuses to allow the Diamond housing due to the alleged growing lack of availability of stock housings.

who? i dont care what you heard, that wasnt the reason. i said that it wasnt based on that. am i just lying now? just cuz you heard something, come on:shaking:




Before you know it, this class will be more of a pro-mod class than a "Budget Stock Spec" class as it was originally sold out to be.


how did you know. next year we are going allow any motor, axels and chassis. what rule do think is going to be added "before long" that will make the class a real expensive pro mod class.:shaking:



like i said, go complain about camo:D

[Hammer Hog]

Tire size and wheelbase as originally ruled has never been an issue as far as I know.

why arent you making it one? its a much bigger not spec things than the aftermarket housings. you love to start stuff. i'll start a thread on it if you want?
No need to get pissy...:shaking: As I said "Wheelbase and tire size is NOT an issue"! And no I'm not "starting stuff" that has already been started by others as you well know. I'm just adding my 2 cents worth. I just don't think all the concerns have been properly concidered...that's all. As I said, I like all that cool stuff too and I can afford it more than most of you. But in MY OPINION, I don't think it helps the class any for the guys who can't afford it. In other words, it tips the playing field in favor to the one with the most buck$. And I DO say that there IS a substantial advantage with wider after market axles as I shared.




like i said, go complain about camo:D Why? He has nothing to do with it :shaking:

[a2b]

No need to get pissy...:shaking: As I said "Wheelbase and tire size is NOT an issue"! And no I'm not "starting stuff" that has already been started by others as you well know. I'm just adding my 2 cents worth. I just don't think all the concerns have been properly concidered...that's all. As I said, I like all that cool stuff too and I can afford it more than most of you. But in MY OPINION, I don't think it helps the class any for the guys who can't afford it. In other words, it tips the playing field in favor to the one with the most buck$. And I DO say that there IS a substantial advantage with wider after market axles as I shared.




Why? He has nothing to do with it :shaking:

oops. sarcastic joke. sorry.:D

thats the norm steve. everybody thinks that no consideration is taken. quite the contrary. the folks that have listed up reason for to and not to have only hit the iceburg, there were alot more consideration that was taken and ideas that were kicked around that are not even mentioned in this thread. but thanks for your input, before we make another desicision without thinking, i will call you first:flipoff2:

like i said, come compete and your wider is better theory will be out the window. there is no way that a diamond housing rig is gonna beat me because it has diamond housing. not ever. so therefore, no scale has been tipped.

but a skinny 103" WB on 35's is going to great on bob's courses, but todd's 111" rig on 37's and if he had a little wider axels will do better on riches courses than the shorter rig. now there is a REAL scale tipper.

[desertoy]

Hobie, Are you guys going to make a decision on the Tacoma 3rds or not?

[Nissan Recovery Team]

but a skinny 103" WB on 35's is going to great on bob's courses,

That's a good piece of 411 to know. :D

[Hammer Hog]

...thanks for your input, before we make another desicision without thinking, i will call you first:flipoff2:


Sweet!!! http://sandtastictoys.com/dance.gif

See ya Sunday :D

BTW Hobie, do you want me to bring one of those 2" BS Beadlocked 17's for ya to see? I sell'em to ya for what raw cost I've got in them...$165 each (I've got 5) Anybody else would be 185- ea.
Beadlock build (http://sandtastictoys.com/new_page_23.htm)
http://sandtastictoys.com/BeadLockDone1-.JPG

[a2b]

na, i will keep looking. i am about to take a month of work. good to know the price though. nice wheels.

[a2b]

Hobie, Are you guys going to make a decision on the Tacoma 3rds or not?

i will put it up for a vote and get an official answer for everyone. check back in a few days. i think todd can only check his email on the weekends.

[Heywood]

Hobie, Are you guys going to make a decision on the Tacoma 3rds or not?


Theres no decision to be made.

8" diff is legal
8.4" is not
Thats how its allways been.

I dont know what you are trying to accomplish with all this.
To get 8.4" diffs made legal? And open a whole other can of worms.

Or make to make a spefic rule that people cant have a rear elocker?
That would be retarded, Its a fawkin 8" DIFFthe fronts are and have been legal since the begining, and theres no reason to make a rear illegal, particulally in this "budget" class when a new 3rd w/elocker is about half the cost of that ARB.
The Tacoma 3rd with the elocker is the 8" one. So how and why are you gonna make it illegall when its the same r&p as yours? Make a rule of which kind of lockers you can have? We cant have the $800 one we have to have the $1500 one if we want selectable?
Not only is there no reason to make it illegal, its no way as good as an ARB,
so theres no unfair advantage.

[SeaBass44]

Theres no decision to be made.

8" diff is legal
8.4" is not
Thats how its allways been.

I dont know what you are trying to accomplish with all this.
To get 8.4" diffs made legal? And open a whole other can of worms.

Or make to make a spefic rule that people cant have a rear elocker?
That would be retarded, Its a fawkin 8" DIFFthe fronts are and have been legal since the begining, and theres no reason to make a rear illegal, particulally in this "budget" class when a new 3rd w/elocker is about half the cost of that ARB.
The Tacoma 3rd with the elocker is the 8" one. So how and why are you gonna make it illegall when its the same r&p as yours? Make a rule of which kind of lockers you can have? We cant have the $800 one we have to have the $1500 one if we want selectable?
Not only is there no reason to make it illegal, its no way as good as an ARB,
so theres no unfair advantage.

I thought the question was, is a toyota elocker housing from tacoma with pumpkin 8" complete axle allowed so they don't have to convert an older one?
not just the 8" elocker part;) nI could be wrong, but I thought that was asked then it went crazy from there:rasta: :rasta: :vader2: :vader2:

[a2b]

you are up way too late. go to bed darin:flipoff2:

[SeaBass44]

you are up way too late. go to bed darin:flipoff2:

YA i KNOW:flipoff2:

[Heywood]

I thought the question was, is a toyota elocker housing from tacoma with pumpkin 8" complete axle allowed so they don't have to convert an older one?
not just the 8" elocker part;) nI could be wrong, but I thought that was asked then it went crazy from there:rasta: :rasta: :vader2: :vader2:

Thats a good question, and one I havent heard it asked. I understand not wanting to open the door for a whole bunch of Tacoma parts.But you cant just say "no tacoma parts allowed". What about chevy leafs and ford shock towers etc...?
I just dont think outlawing elockers is the way to do it.With aftermarket housings anywidth allowed it seems a taco rear with the so called "8" 3rd would be legal. I dont see a way to outlaw it and stay within the current rules. Or really a reason to when the rules allow a tacoma width diamond axle with arb 3rd and cro mo axles.
Actually I believe outlawing it at this point would make the rules bias to those with more cash.
I think keeping the limit to "8" diff is limiting enough.
The 8" and 8.4" are two different things, the only lockers avail for the 8.4" is arb and lockright.
The step was made to allow aftermarket housings anywidth. I dont think we can limit it to certain vendors, yes to diamond and sky but no to toyota?

Im not trying to step on anyones toes or lay down anylaws, just giving my opinion and interpertation of the rules, any final descions would be voted on by the 5 b.o.d.

[Brian Ellinger]

I have to agree with heywood. The taco rears, are an 8" ring gear, whether its a elock, or "8.4", they are both 8" in diameter. I dont see a reason not to allow this rear end. I see plenty of reasons not to run it though (wide...) But who knows, maybe someone is going to run a Dimond front housing, or spacers up front, and deep backspaced wheels to make up for it.

Either way, the taco rears are 8", 30 spline and still have current rule complying lousy drums.

Maybe limit to 8" measured ring gears in the diffs, and PU/runner front knuckles. Other than that, go to town. I dont see anyone having an advantage or disadvantage.

[RE:Todd]

Maybe limit to 8" measured ring gears in the diffs, Ship pulled in, we broke it :( . Still won't make the comp, gotta work to fix the ship. Brian, no one's gonna make anyone take apart a chunk to measure it. As far as the Diamond housing, I'm still of the opinion that it doesn't make a difference in the outcome of an event. If someone can explain to me in layman's terms why it would, I'd be willing to listen!!


As far as everything else, Hobie and the rest of the board volunteered to do this, because we also had our rigs built to compete. Steve, your rig was ready and you could have been a part of the BOD also, don't know why you're not, seriously don't know why. However, we are just trying to help the class advance, make the rules work for the majority of the class, and make a level playing field for all competitors regardless of income and budget (Hollywood producer, Hobie; poor military guy, RE:Todd) :D .All suggestions are welcomed, discussed at great length, and then a decission has to be made. We make the decission, popular or not.

My junk was built out of the junkyard (remember the first seats??) and then I got a little lucky with some stuff. The Jake (LazyBum) father and son team aren't on here much, but they're just as competitive as everyone else and they have their drivelines sponsored and that's all. If you are that ate up about a choice or decission, send Hobie, me, Matt, Chris, or Sean a PM or E-mail with the pro's con's and options. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. I don't want to hear from vendors or trail rigs, but want to hear from guys with at least 1 to 2 comps under their belt, then they truly have an idea what's an advantage or not.

[Rob_O]

Rob O, I know the search has been down, but look for a thread I started about running diamond axles and you'll see the width issue is discussed in detail and why you should'nt be to concerned about it...for Ftoy...narrower is better:smokin:


a skinny 103" WB on 35's is going to great on bob's courses, but todd's 111" rig on 37's and if he had a little wider axels will do better on riches courses than the shorter rig. now there is a REAL scale tipper.


I think there's a time and a place for everything. As this class spreads there will be more need for regional specialization for the local landscape and skinny isn't always better.


These rules need to be consistent and as close to stock specs as possible within reason as it started out to be. Otherwise the guy with the most bucks and a commercial shop has the advantage over the guy with a limited budget and a home garage for a shop.

Don't get me wrong. I too want to see this class grow. But there has to be some consistency with the rules and the tweaking of rules. Before you know it, this class will be more of a pro-mod class than a "Budget Stock Spec" class as it was originally sold out to be.

I couldn't agree more completely. Maybe one day there can be a real "budget" class with homemade cages, stock 22re, single Xfer case, stock axles and small tires and the current cars can go even more hardcore than they've already become with stuff like supercharged Tundra V8s!!!


Theres no decision to be made.

8" diff is legal
8.4" is not
Thats how its allways been.

the fronts are and have been legal since the begining, and theres no reason to make a rear illegal, particulally in this "budget" class when a new 3rd w/elocker is about half the cost of that ARB.
The Tacoma 3rd with the elocker is the 8" one. So how and why are you gonna make it illegall when its the same r&p as yours? Make a rule of which kind of lockers you can have? We cant have the $800 one we have to have the $1500 one if we want selectable?
Not only is there no reason to make it illegal, its no way as good as an ARB,
so theres no unfair advantage.

I understand not wanting to open the door for a whole bunch of Tacoma parts.But you cant just say "no tacoma parts allowed". What about chevy leafs and ford shock towers etc...?
I just dont think outlawing elockers is the way to do it.With aftermarket housings anywidth allowed it seems a taco rear with the so called "8" 3rd would be legal. I dont see a way to outlaw it and stay within the current rules. Or really a reason to when the rules allow a tacoma width diamond axle with arb 3rd and cro mo axles.
Actually I believe outlawing it at this point would make the rules bias to those with more cash.
I think keeping the limit to "8" diff is limiting enough.


Like I said earlier, the cost of entry for this class is not exactly cheap and allowing people to get into the game using more JY parts will only help the class to grow

[surlynkid]

the supposed 8.4" T100 rear ring gear is no such thing. it measures exactly 8". i have one right here with a tape measure. if you guys want to disallow it, you better come up with a better plan than claiming all 8" V6 thirds are allowed. my T-100 has an 8" ring gear and came from a V6 truck (3.4 but still a V6). that meets your definition unless you specifically disallow it. where people came up with the 8.4' i'll never know.

[Hammer Hog]

I think there's a time and a place for everything. As this class spreads there will be more need for regional specialization for the local landscape and skinny isn't always better.



I couldn't agree more completely. Maybe one day there can be a real "budget" class with homemade cages, stock 22re, single Xfer case, stock axles and small tires and the current cars can go even more hardcore than they've already become with stuff like supercharged Tundra V8s!!!



Like I said earlier, the cost of entry for this class is not exactly cheap and allowing people to get into the game using more JY parts will only help the class to grow

I think you are reading into this too deeply :shaking: Go back and do some homework on this class before you get too carried away :rolleyes:

BTW, Do you have or plan on getting an F-Toy?