This is a buddy’s rig that we are currently adding mog diffs to. Usually, I provide the basic designs and drawings and he does the execution. Well…when we agree on the way the mods should be done anyway.

The project is an already fairly modified 84 Suzuki SJ 410 Pickup. The plan is to put some modified 1969 411 axles (clamshell type) to replace the current Toyota diffs and keep the passenger side drop tcase.

Here’s a few specs on the rig and stuff that is staying:
-1.6L 8 valve Suzuki engine
-Suzuki automatic 3 speed transmission
-Custom adapter to mate Toyota pickup tcase to Suzuki auto
-Toyota pickup dual cases using AA adapter (2.28 in front case and 4.0 in rear case)

The rest of the current drivetrain we are changing.
So…here are the plans:

Front:
-For the front diff, we will be moving the pumpkin to the passenger side to have ~6” offset from centre. Currently it is ~4” offset to the driver side. Details on the shaft will come later as we get to that.
-We will do a pinion conversion and shorten the pinion ~ 2-3 inches.
-The drums, we will convert to disks and change to a Chev 8 bolt pattern.
-We will be using 12” SAW airshocks in the front. No more coils
-Front suspension link set-up is still being decided. Will depend on clearance.
-Steering will be full hydro with a single ended ram.
-Steering will be converted to high steer. We’ll make some custom arms.

Rear:
-The rear diff housing and shafts will stay the way it is.
-We will do a pinion conversion and shorten the pinion ~ 2-3 inches.
-The drums, we will convert to disks and change to a Chev 8 bolt pattern.
-Suspension will be a 4 link (XX style) using Aerostar coils.

-I’ll be adding lots of pics as we go along.

The 411 we started with was an old mining truck and had a custom ugly ass body. It actually never made it to my shop. As you can see from the pic, what did make it was a welded up frame with a tranny and engine half apart, but diffs that looked to be in great shape.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232532&stc=1&d=1141571162

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232533&stc=1&d=1141571162

Let's start with the rear diff.

All the various stock brackets were cut off and the stock drums and brakes were removed. If someone needs new 411/406 brakes, let me know.

The torque tubes were cut to give us a little extra to play with. They will be cut down some more to make them 6 inches long and will hold 2 extra seals. It's no more effort to double up the pinion seals and will add a little safety against seal failure.
For the new pinion flanges, we used one drive shaft end and cut two 2" pieces. We'll weld flat flanges to these. They will be setup for Toyota driveshafts.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232534&stc=1&d=1141571237

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232535&stc=1&d=1141571237

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232536&stc=1&d=1141571237

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232537&stc=1&d=1141571237

Just as an aside. The tube size used for the front diff housing is the same as used in the torque tubes. I'd bet it is the same for the rear. Good to know if you want to retube one of these diffs.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232538&stc=1&d=1141571351

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232539&stc=1&d=1141571351

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232540&stc=1&d=1141571351

On to the brake conversion...

The hubs were custom made from 6061 AL and use some late model rear Chev 3/4 ton 13" rotors. The centre of the rotors was enlarged. These rotors were chosen because the dimensions worked and they were relatively cheap. Too bad making the hubs was not. I'll add detailed costs when the diffs are done for those that are curious.

We are designing this set-up to use Hummer H1 rims. Caliper clearance will be very tight... but will fit. More to come on the calipers at a later date.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232541&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232542&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232543&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232544&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232545&stc=1&d=1141571453

That's all for now. I'll post more as we make progress.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232548&stc=1&d=1141571581

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232549&stc=1&d=1141571581

VERY NICE!!! Thanks for the pics. that adapter is awesome!
I always liked the SJ 410 pickups, too bad they never sold them in the states

Looks great Mat! Did you do the adaptors and pinion flanges yourself?

Shawn had a buddy at a local machine shop do the hubs and the flat parts of the flange. I provided the drawings and dimensions and they did the machining. They did a very nice job, although a little pricier than expected. Anyway, I just didn't have the time or feel like doing them. :D

I'll be doing the final machining of the flanges, turning the tube inserts for the links, making the diff tube sleeves and stuff like that. I've been helping Shawn when he needs it but I'd rather use my shop time on my own buggy.

Unfortunately, I dropped my camera in the shop this afternoon and busted it :( $#%^$^$#^@!!!!
Too bad too cause I had some more progress pics of the pinion conversions and the front housing diff mods.

Sweet! Are they about the same width as the Toy axles? (before the spacer/adapters)

Also, I meant to ask you on the labour day weekend run last year how those Aerostar coils were working for ya? They looked like they were really flexy. I'm thinking about using some on the rear of my LWB project. I'll have a Ford 4.0 under the hood so they might be too weak for the front but before I fab something up I figured I'd ask.

Are ya gonna come up to Sudbury again this year? I'd love to see that buggy on 404s tackle Depot's crack!!!:grinpimp:


Sean :cool2:

[QUOTE=SamiFlyer]Sweet! Are they about the same width as the Toy axles? (before the spacer/adapters)

About 57" WMS to WMS for the front and 56" for the rear.

[QUOTE=SamiFlyer]Also, I meant to ask you on the labour day weekend run last year how those Aerostar coils were working for ya? They looked like they were really flexy. I'm thinking about using some on the rear of my LWB project. I'll have a Ford 4.0 under the hood so they might be too weak for the front but before I fab something up I figured I'd ask.

I'm running the Aerostar coils in the front of my buggy. Shawn was pretty happy with his. I'll be trying different rates/versions on my buggy. I'm starting with the AA's which are the softest I believe. If I don't like thoses I have a set of BB's.

[QUOTE=SamiFlyer]Are ya gonna come up to Sudbury again this year? I'd love to see that buggy on 404s tackle Depot's crack!!

I hate to say this...but yes I will be trying Depot's crack...

Mat

I hate to say this...but yes I will be trying Depot's crack...

Mat

LMAO! You know it's pretty hairy cause Bill broke his shaft in there! :p I hope you have some good rubbers! :D


Sean :cool2:

LMAO! You know it's pretty hairy cause Bill broke his shaft in there! :p I hope you have some good rubbers! :D


Sean :cool2:

I'll be sporting 4 new 40 inch rubbers... and they're 8 ply too :D

Mat

I hate to say this...but yes I will be trying Depot's crack...

Mat



Awesome job on the 404's, now lets see if shawns right foot gets any heavier to match the beef of the axels!!!


As for the crack, i think there's gonna be a full day of carnage and attempts of this thing. I'm glad you'll be there in the buggy too, as i knew it was chewing you up inside to sit there and watch last year.

YIKES! :eek: y is everyone so hard up for my hairy crack???? :smokin: :smokin:

nice job XTR... see yah in may

D

Ok, let's get back to the build here. I fixed my camera, so I took a few more pics of yesterday's work.

The pinions were cut down about 2 inches using a piece of the female splined end from the driveshaft as a guide. The fabricated flange was then used as a guide to drill a hole in the centre of the pinion which was taped for a 3/8 retaining bolt. Worked mint.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232848&stc=1&d=1141674406

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232849&stc=1&d=1141674406

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232850&stc=1&d=1141674406

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232851&stc=1&d=1141674406

We then got started on the front diff housing pumpkin relocation.

We decided the easiest way to do this was to cut both sides in half and exchange the outer pieces. This is allowing us to make this diff a passenger side drop and to add 2 inches of length originally on the short side to the new long side.
To align the two pieces, I machined a press fit sleeve that slides inside the diff tube. I left a 1/8" groove between the two diff pieces to make sure the weld penetrates. Stock caster was kept, but we may adjust it if driveshaft clearance dictate the need.

The long side is still waiting for it's sleeve.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232853&stc=1&d=1141675165

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232854&stc=1&d=1141675165

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232855&stc=1&d=1141675165

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232856&stc=1&d=1141675165

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232857&stc=1&d=1141675165

Oh yeah!

Shawn finally listened to me and decided the back of the rig had to go. Need the clearance :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232859&stc=1&d=1141675801

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232861&stc=1&d=1141675801

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232860&stc=1&d=1141675801

Interesting build. I will have to follow this one....

Also very interested to see the steering arms you come up with as well.

Jay

Wow!

I am really thrilled to see this post as I am about to start similar mods to my own 411.119 Mog axles.

My mog was also used for mining at an underground mine near Thunder Bay, Ontario. The mechanics used it to haul parts down the ramp to an underground garage.

While I haven't heard of any others in this area, apparently there were some used in Elliot Lake.

Your work looks great. I am planning to use rims with less backspacing so I am hoping to have more room for calliper clearance. My goal is to be able to run 15" rims, as I have a new set of 15" 44" swampers on hand. Any thoughts on this?

If you need any technical references I have a full set of original factory service and parts manuals. Just PM me.

Looking forward to more posts.

J.P.

I am planning to use rims with less backspacing so I am hoping to have more room for calliper clearance. My goal is to be able to run 15" rims, as I have a new set of 15" 44" swampers on hand. Any thoughts on this?
J.P.

Hi JP,

If you want to run 15" rims, you better stick with the stock drum brakes. A 15" rim can just slide over the drum with around 3" of back spacing. It looks pretty much next to impossible to do a disc brake conversion with less than a 13" diameter rotor, so you won't fit 15s with a disc conversion. Let me know if you need brake parts as Shawn's diffs came with new shoes and good drums we won't be using.

Might take you up on the diff section of you manuals. I'll let you know

What are your plans for this mog?

Shawn did a little more progress. I mainly supervised :flipoff2:

The rear is taking shape. He used 1.75" .120" wall ERW tubing sleaved with 2" .120 wall ERW tubing. The 2" was a real pain in the ass to slide on because of the seem. Nothing a good sledge wouldn't solve though.

The short driver side shaft is now 2 inches shorter and will be used as the passenger side shaft. The long shaft will have to be custom.

Aside from that, we just did little things like a bunch of 1 1/4" tube inserts for the links.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234007&stc=1&d=1142214871

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234008&stc=1&d=1142214871

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234009&stc=1&d=1142214871

I do not approve of this weekends progress, go finish the pinion conversions and come back with pics :flipoff2:

Seriously though, I'm getting ready to the exact same thing to my 416's, narrow, offset diff more, custom shafts, homemade pinion conversions, homemade 8 lug conversions, etc. I love reading this stuff...

[QUOTE=willyswanter]I do not approve of this weekends progress, go finish the pinion conversions and come back with pics
QUOTE]


I agree, Shawn did some serious slacking this weekend. I'll make sure it does not happen again. :flipoff2:

As for the pinion conversions, I finally got around to giving him some choices for the seals. Hopefully we'll have that done by the end of the week if he can find some seals.

Since we're doing pinion conversions on clamshell type diff, I thought you guys might like to see pics of factory pinion conversions on 406 diffs. These were converted by a Unimog dealer as requested by the mine (mining trucks of course). The torque tube suspension was removed in favour of a 4 link plus panhard. I'm not sure what the reason for these conversions was though.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234020&stc=1&d=1142217799

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=234021&stc=1&d=1142217799

Come on no updates this weekend??? :(

Well, nothing got done last weekend. I had relatives staying in the guest apartment over the shop and had family stuff to do.

Anyway, the pinion conversion housings did get done this week. We'll be running two outer seals plus the stock mog seal at the bearing. Why? Because we can.:D I hate leaky pinion seals.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236152&stc=1&d=1143254541

As well, I machined the sleave for the new driver side of the diff housing. We'll press the outer piece in tomorrow after I've checked the caster angle and made a couple tacks to hold the sleave to the inter housing half.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236153&stc=1&d=1143254541

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236154&stc=1&d=1143254541

More to come soon...

no extra support bearing???

no extra support bearing???

Nope! I really don't see a need for one. The end of the pinion is only 3.5" from the current mog bearing.

We finally assembled the front diff halfs today. Here's two pics of how it looks. The pumpkin is now offset ~6 inches to the passenger side.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236280&stc=1&d=1143334682

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=236281&stc=1&d=1143334682

come on dude, your as slow as me, we need updates :D

Ok! Here's a little update. The rear 4 link is almost done... for now. We'll put the coils and shocks when the front ride height is figured out. The center diff truss is not finished and it will be further reinforced.

As well, after the second set of 37x13x16.5 Boggers showed up with sidewall splits near the rim edge, Shawn went with the 37x14x16.5 Irok. I have to say that Interco's tire quality controls is non existent! I had the same issue with one of my 39.5" Iroks.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=237491&stc=1&d=1143860787

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=237492&stc=1&d=1143860787

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=237493&stc=1&d=1143860787

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=237494&stc=1&d=1143860787

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=237495&stc=1&d=1143860787

lookin good !!!!

Sweet project!

I am really interested in seeing what you guys come up with for the rest of the 8-lug brake system!!

Keep up the good work!

A little update...

The long side shaft has been modified. The short spline end was cut off and a chunk of 4340 was splined to work with the locker side. The 4340 piece was pressed on the end and welded. Since the shaft is almost 1.75" o.d. I'm sure it will hold but we will see.

The weld still needs to be cleaned up a bit.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238839&stc=1&d=1144539010

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238840&stc=1&d=1144539010

The rear is pretty much finished aside from a few extra gussets here and there and the shock mounts. The coils Shawn is using for now are Aerostar BBs. They may need a spacer, but we'll figure that out when we set ride height.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238842&stc=1&d=1144539746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238843&stc=1&d=1144539746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238844&stc=1&d=1144539746

As for the front, it just got a major chop. :D
Shawn cut it all off in front of the engine mounts and we will be tubing the front.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238845&stc=1&d=1144539746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238846&stc=1&d=1144539746

Sweet project!

I am really interested in seeing what you guys come up with for the rest of the 8-lug brake system!!

Keep up the good work!

Here's a little preview of the brake calipers. We tried a lot of different calipers before we found these. They are early 90s Nissan Pathfinder front calipers.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238847&stc=1&d=1144542203

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238848&stc=1&d=1144542203

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238849&stc=1&d=1144542203

Very cool!!

Here's a couple pics of how the front suspension is turning out.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=240758&stc=1&d=1145465746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=240759&stc=1&d=1145465746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=240760&stc=1&d=1145465746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=240761&stc=1&d=1145465746

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=240762&stc=1&d=1145465746

looks real good. how are you going to mount the caliper?
thanks ovrez

This is where all the ZookPower boyz are hangin these days!!! Lookin good , keep up the updates. It is giving me insentive to work on mine....LOL. Can't wait to see this at SuziCan. I hope your coming too with Shawn:)

This is where all the ZookPower boyz are hangin these days!!! Lookin good , keep up the updates. It is giving me insentive to work on mine....LOL. Can't wait to see this at SuziCan. I hope your coming too with Shawn:)

Hey Mudlite,
I doubt I'll make it to Suzican this year. I'll be doing the holidays with family thing.

looking good Matt!

I think this is due for an update.

The portal boxes are back on the front diff. After some angle mounting issues, the 12" SAW airshock are finally mounted on the front. The lower shock heims get very close to maxing out their misalignment travel at some points in the diff travel and turning but they seem to be ok. Ride height will have ~4" of shock shaft showing in the front.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243667&stc=1&d=1146916618

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243668&stc=1&d=1146916618

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243669&stc=1&d=1146916618

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243670&stc=1&d=1146916618

And for the brakes...
The pics show how the Nissan caliper bracket is cut and tapped for two 1/2" bolts. Two tabs were then made from some 1/2" plate and will be welded on to the portal box. As for all the old tabs on the portal box which were needed for mounting the old shoes, they are getting ground off to clean things up.

The caliper clearance will be very tight and the caliper will require a very small amount of grinding in one spot. More pics to come on this, but Shawn needs to make duplicate tabs for all four corner before we weld the first set of tabs on and do some caliper grinding.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243671&stc=1&d=1146917401

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243672&stc=1&d=1146917401

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243673&stc=1&d=1146917401

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243674&stc=1&d=1146917401

It looks like Shawn was hard at work this afternoon. He finished plating the front section of the frame and added some much needed bracing. The stock frame showed some noticeable flex before this strengthening.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243711&stc=1&d=1146959192

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243712&stc=1&d=1146959192

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243713&stc=1&d=1146959192

He also started on finishing the back tubework.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243714&stc=1&d=1146959192

I guess it's probably time for an update.

A few overall shots...
In these pics the front is a little higher than planned.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248205&stc=1&d=1149424352

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248206&stc=1&d=1149424352

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248207&stc=1&d=1149424352

Here's the engine bay and upper shock mount setup. It will be getting more cleanup. and no it's not crooked! Must be the pic.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248208&stc=1&d=1149424743

Lower airshock mount...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248209&stc=1&d=1149424743

Lower rad mount...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248210&stc=1&d=1149424743

The fuel cell is from Summit Racing and was cut down to fit between the frame rails. The mounts aren't completely finished yet and the cell will be strapped down.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248211&stc=1&d=1149424743

Rear shocks are in, but the mounts need finish welding. The coil spacers for the Aerostar "BB" coils are 1.5" nylon. They may change if needed to get the stance Shawn is after.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=248212&stc=1&d=1149424743

Is there any binding happening with those lower mounts on the airshocks?

Is there any binding happening with those lower mounts on the airshocks?

Maybe read the thread before asking questions?:flipoff2:

... The lower shock heims get very close to maxing out their misalignment travel at some points in the diff travel and turning but they seem to be ok....

Let's post a few progress pics...:flipoff2:

Quick shot of the rear.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251602&stc=1&d=1151366652

A shot of the final rear upper link mounts.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251603&stc=1&d=1151366652

Orbital valve is in and mounted.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251604&stc=1&d=1151366652

Rear lights are in.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251605&stc=1&d=1151366652

Shot of the front crossmember. Tube is 2"x3" 0.250" wall.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=251606&stc=1&d=1151366652

bad ass !! what ration are those mogs running ? flex shots please

Well, the rear disk brake conversion is done. It was a major pain in the ass. We would not do it again.

The calipers took forever to find some that would clear the Hummer rims with a 13" rotor. Finally we found some from an early 90s Nissan Pathfinder that we could work with. The bracket that came with each caliper needed a fair bit of grinding to make is work. Some cutting and two new holes had to be drilled and tapped in this bracket. As well two tabs had to be welded to the portal box to hold the bracket and caliper. I ended up using the arc welder and nickel type rods to weld the two 1/2" tabs to the outer portal housing since the housing is cast. For the caliper it also needed a small amount of grinding on the surface facing the wheel and the bleeder needed to be ground a little shorter.

All this allows the stock Hummer H1 16.5" rims to fit.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252373&stc=1&d=1151711869

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252374&stc=1&d=1151711869

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252375&stc=1&d=1151711869

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252376&stc=1&d=1151711869

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252377&stc=1&d=1151711869

bad ass !! what ration are those mogs running ? flex shots please

The diffs have a ratio of ~8.2:1 :eek:

Flex pics will have to wait till it's done. Here is a good pic though... :flipoff2:

damn thats fuukin bad ass

Shawn dropped by with the "raw" steering arms back from the machine shop. These were laser cut from 1 1/2" plate. The mounting surface was then milled on an angle and drilled. They will still get hit with the grinder and flapper to remove any stress points and make them look pretty :p .
The way I had drawn the arms up, they should have a very, very, small amount of ackerman angle. This is pretty much an offroad only rig so I don't see the need to have the correct "street" ackerman angle.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253020&d=1152225575

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253021&stc=1&d=1152225576

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253022&stc=1&d=1152225576

How do you guys like the custom high strength steering link? :flipoff2:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253023&stc=1&d=1152225576

On to the brake conversion...

The hubs were custom made from 6061 AL and use some late model rear Chev 3/4 ton 13" rotors. The centre of the rotors was enlarged. These rotors were chosen because the dimensions worked and they were relatively cheap. Too bad making the hubs was not. I'll add detailed costs when the diffs are done for those that are curious.

We are designing this set-up to use Hummer H1 rims. Caliper clearance will be very tight... but will fit. More to come on the calipers at a later date.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232541&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232542&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232543&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232544&stc=1&d=1141571453

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=232545&stc=1&d=1141571453

Very cool build. I just very fortunatley cought it as I really don't get much/any pirate time any more.

I have a question about your hub adapters. I see that you are using socket heads in place of the original double wasted Mog hub bolts. Did you use any kind of a special ground dia. bolt to do this conversion as from what I see of the design , accurate bolt dia. is fairly important to it working well.

Also , do you have any concerns of being able to properly torque the hub bolts through an allen key. I don't have any numbers in front of me ut I thinthose bolts are torqued to 270 foot pounds or so. I guess you better use a good allen key! Also do you have any insight as to what you should now torque the bolts to since they no longer have the reduced diameter sections that the originals had?

I have had a concept design a conversion hub myself. My concept kept the original bolts, and because of their counter bore size being quite a bit larger than that of a socket head it left me with some compromises that I didn't really like ( Less than desireable counter bore to wheel stud clearance on two of the holes, and no room for a hub-centric ring inside of the wheel studs). I had considered the swap over to socket heads, but my concerns above matched with a lack of time to give the project made me never look further into it.

I look forward to your reply. And thank you for your time.

Thanks,
Sean

So whats happening with this thing? Any response to me prevous questions?

Regards,
Sean

So whats happening with this thing? Any response to me prevous questions?

Regards,
Sean

Keep your pantys on!:D

I just got back from 2 and a half week of holidays overseas. I'll take some updated pics and will answer your questions later today. First, I'm taking a nap.:flipoff2:

LOL , No worries I've had these panties on for like 15 days now, they are sorta growing on me.

Sounds good, I was just wondering because the thread just suddenly died and I had no idea why.

Sean

LOL , No worries I've had these panties on for like 15 days now, they are sorta growing on me.

Sounds good, I was just wondering because the thread just suddenly died and I had no idea why.

Sean


You should know all about mog axled build up threads dieing out all the sudden :flipoff2:

Still waiting to see what your doing with some CV shafts for your axles Sean. I'm about ready to contact RCV performance about some for mine.

You should know all about mog axled build up threads dieing out all the sudden :flipoff2:

Still waiting to see what your doing with some CV shafts for your axles Sean. I'm about ready to contact RCV performance about some for mine.


DOH!! OUCH! I guess I had that coming.

Sean

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253020&d=1152225575

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253021&stc=1&d=1152225576

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253022&stc=1&d=1152225576

How do you guys like the custom high strength steering link? :flipoff2:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=253023&stc=1&d=1152225576


Hey Matt,

I'm totally diggin the steering arms! Are u doing something similar for your 404s?

I have a question about your hub adapters. I see that you are using socket heads in place of the original double wasted Mog hub bolts. Did you use any kind of a special ground dia. bolt to do this conversion as from what I see of the design , accurate bolt dia. is fairly important to it working well.

Also , do you have any concerns of being able to properly torque the hub bolts through an allen key. I don't have any numbers in front of me ut I thinthose bolts are torqued to 270 foot pounds or so. I guess you better use a good allen key! Also do you have any insight as to what you should now torque the bolts to since they no longer have the reduced diameter sections that the originals had?

Thanks,
Sean

The hub alignment is done by the step machined in the center of the new aluminum hub that mates to the portal flange. I don't see a need for the bolts to be used in the alignment. For that reason I really don't have too big a concern with the bolts not being special ground. The bolts are standard off the shelf 10.9 grade metric socket head bolts. I can't quite remember the length right now though.

We torqued each down to 85 ft.lbs and used some Locktight on each for safety. I figured that since 12 mm or 1/2" wheel nuts should usually be torqued somewhere around the 80 ft.lbs mark, it should be ok for this. The bolts seemed to torque down fairly well. We'll be keeping an eye on them for the first few runs, but I dought they will loosen.

Are you sure about this 270 ft.lbs you quoted?


On a side note, I just saw some pics of Taradon's adapters on some diffs in the for sale section and they only seem to use five of the ten bolts for mounting his adapter. That would kind of concern me...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484195

I need to get back looking at my axles again so I can really start taking the hub conversions on. Any experience of yours you would be willing to share would be greatly appreciated.

I just looked up in the FSM , and it specs 320 + , - 20 Nm for those bolts. Thats 236 Lb. Ft. . I have the whole factory sevice manual for these trucks. If any of it would be beneficial for you I could scan some pages for you.

Regards,
Sean

this is a sweet build up, good job on doing something different!

Checked my factory manual for torque specs for this vintage 411 axle.

29 mkp

Manual conversion table reads 1mkp=7.233 ft. lbs.

29 x 7.233= 209.757 ft. lbs.

Not sure why there seems to be a discrepancy. I would be happy to scan and email as well.

Kudos on the nice work. You are inspiring me to get to work on my axles as well.

John.

Tightening Torques (Nm)
Front axle
Designation Thread Strength Tightening torques for
001 030 002
031 130 102
032 320
101
Gear hub to driven gear M 16X1.5 12.9 290 290 320
320 1) 320 1)
M 20X1.5 12.9 - - 600 1)
Brake disk to gear hub M 18X1.5 12.9 - - 400 1)
Nut of clamping screw M 20X1.5 10.9 220 220 220 3)
to driven gear
Driving wheel to drive shaft M 16X1.5 12.9 - - 300 1)
M 20X1.5 12.9 - - -
Wheel hub drive M 12X1.5 10.9 090 090 090
to steering knuckle M 14X1.5 12.9 - - 200
M 20X1.5 8.8 - - 350 1)
Bearing ring to steering knuckle M 10 8.8 - - 40 1)
Steering arm respectively M 12X1.5 10.9 90-100 90-100 90-100
steering knuckle arm M 16X1.5 12.9 - - -
to steering knuckle M 18X1.5 12.9 - - 400
M 20X1.5 12.9 450 450 450 1)
Clamp to steering arm M 10X1.5 8.8 - - 050
resp. steering knuckle arm M 12X1.5 8.8
Drag link respectively M 16X1.5 - - 95±5
track rods to steering arm M 18X1.5 150±10 150±10 -
resp. steering knuckle arm M20X1.5 8.8 - - 180±10 1)

1) Only for axle-model 737.1./3.
2) M 16 X 1.5 10.9.
3) Only for axle-model 737.002.


I have most of the pages from the manuals in Excel. I can send them too you. I stil haven't loaded them to my site yet, WAY BEHIND IN THAT...

Tightening Torques (Nm) I have most of the pages from the manuals in Excel. I can send them too you. I stil haven't loaded them to my site yet, WAY BEHIND IN THAT...

Sapper,

Could you email me the part of the manual for the diffs? My email is xtrmtoy@xplornet.com.

Thanks,
Mat

A few pics of new progress...

First, some of the finished steering arms. Shawn added a 3/8" plate to increase the mounting thickness so the factory bolts would work. I think the arms turned out very nice. If anyone is interested in some let me know. I could be convinced into making more and may make a set for my own mog 404s when I add rear steer.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256355&stc=1&d=1154106537

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256356&stc=1&d=1154106537

The brake lines are also done. shawn ended up using the stock Nissan pathfinder flex hoses. They work well in the front and back.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256357&stc=1&d=1154106537

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256358&stc=1&d=1154106537

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256359&stc=1&d=1154106537

For the brake master cylinder, we first tried the stock Suzuki non power brake master, but it just didn't displace the needed brake fluid volume. Since I had a GM master from a 95 Impala SS that had front and rear disks, we figured we'd try that next. The GM mounting allows us to try a lot of different GM masters if needed. We actually just finished bleeding the system and the pedal feels good with reasonable travel. If the pedal is too hard to push, we'll first try to change the pivot on the pedal and if that's not enough, we'll try some smaller masters from mid size GMs. I suspect it will be good though.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256360&stc=1&d=1154107057

Nothing too exciting, but the muffler is in. A tailpipe still needs to be added.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256361&stc=1&d=1154107057

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256362&stc=1&d=1154107057

And a preview shot of the steering cylinder. It's a 2"x10" with and 1 1/4" rod from Princess Auto. The shaft end has been cut to shorten it and tapped for a 3/4"x3/4" heim. We'll probably have to add a heim to the other end, but I'm waiting for Shawn to finish the steering link to see clearances. He's been having problems finding the tubing size I recommended. We'll see what he finds today...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256363&stc=1&d=1154107057

why not throw a gusset from the steering arm over to the portal mounting bolts to help tie it in and not have all your steering based off of just the two lower bolts? Even made of .120 plate would seem to help.

Sapper,

Could you email me the part of the manual for the diffs? My email is xtrmtoy@xplornet.com.

Thanks,
Mat


Email sent. I hope you can use some of it.

Jay

Those arms look great. I would be interested in a set.

I sent you an email with scans from the front axle section of the manual. Let me know if you want anything else.

John.

why not throw a gusset from the steering arm over to the portal mounting bolts to help tie it in and not have all your steering based off of just the two lower bolts? Even made of .120 plate would seem to help.

Shawn and I have discussed adding a gusset from the top of the arm to the portal box but decided that it wasn't needed. These arms are serious beef! I don't think the arm will flex enough to warrant an extra gusset.

Sapper... Thanks for the spreadsheet.

jptbay... Thanks for the jpegs.

Are the spots on the steering arms where the tie rod would go cut at the wrong angle? It looks like they slope outward instead of inward.

Are the spots on the steering arms where the tie rod would go cut at the wrong angle? It looks like they slope outward instead of inward.

The mounting does slope outward to bring the pivot point of the tierod to the outside. I did this on purpose. The reason for this was to minize the angle miled into the arm at the bottom mounting. I wanted to keep the most meat at the bottom mounting area.

Following are some pics of the finished tie rod. Since Shawn could not find the DOM we needed, he ended up getting some 1.5" solid aluminum. It was drilled and tapped 7/8" 18tpi at each end for the 85 GM Blazer ends (2234R ends). Looks like it should work well and we have the needed clearance for the steering cylinder.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256470&stc=1&d=1154195711

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=256471&stc=1&d=1154195711

Looks like it should work then.

How was welding the shock tabs to the portal box? I'm planning on doing the same but I have significantly more weight. Did they weld nice like cast steel or were they more like cast iron? Did you preheat?

Looks like it should work then.
How was welding the shock tabs to the portal box? I'm planning on doing the same but I have significantly more weight. Did they weld nice like cast steel or were they more like cast iron? Did you preheat?

Quick edit...

The shock tabs weld fine like cast steel. The portal boxes where we welded the caliper tabs on the other hand welded like cast iron. A real pain in the ass to do. I did not preheat but did short 1" long welds at a time with peening of the weld right after each. I alternated welding the left portal then the right portal with Shawn doing the peening. It worked well but the welds are not what I would call pretty. A flapper corrected that though. It would have been a lot easier if Shawn had removed the boxes so I didn't have to do vertical welds.

Here's some quick info on the two ways to weld the cast:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/castironpreheat.asp

Do your steering arms not have the 3rd bold under them or did you chose to just not use them?

Also curious on the lenght you used from the front bolt to the centre of the TRE mount?

Do your steering arms not have the 3rd bold under them or did you chose to just not use them?

No 3rd bolt on these 411 axles for the steering arm mounts.

Also curious on the lenght you used from the front bolt to the centre of the TRE mount?

9"

Any update?

Ok...Here's some new pics.

Shawn actually took it out to wheel at his cotage for a week. Nothing too serious since the lockers were not hooked up but everything seemed to work well. He's very happy with how the suspension works and loves the full hydro. The gearing setup and brakes also seem to be perfect.


Here's some shots of the finished steering setup:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259429&stc=1&d=1155989866

The ram mount at the diff... The end of the ram is kind of ugly as I had to use the arc welder due to my mig not working when we welded a nut on the end for the heim. It's plenty strong though.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259430&stc=1&d=1155989866

The steering link and ram get very close when turning right... We've made some adjustments since these pics and the ram now maxes out its travel.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259437&stc=1&d=1155991463

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259438&stc=1&d=1155991463

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259431&stc=1&d=1155989866

For the lockers, Shawn is using an air compressor from a Caddy or Lincoln with airbags. The air tank will be a 4" od tube, 24" long and will be mounted right behind the fuel cell.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259432&stc=1&d=1155990758

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259433&stc=1&d=1155990758

For the hydro, we were able to fit a nice large reservoir and a full size hydraulic oil 10 micron filter. The breather is mounted remotely just ahead of the tank and uses a 40 micron breather. If you're curious on the oil, we are using ISO 46 AW hydraulic oil (Shell Tellus 46).

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259434&stc=1&d=1155990758

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259435&stc=1&d=1155990758

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259436&stc=1&d=1155990758

And here is how she looked after her maiden voyage.:grinpimp:

My daughter Danica decided to inspect the work... I'm not sure if she was impressed.:D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259439&stc=1&d=1155991802

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259440&stc=1&d=1155991802

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259441&stc=1&d=1155991802

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259442&stc=1&d=1155991802

I'll get some action shots soon so :flipoff2:

that is really really NICE. You do some damn good work !!!

that is really really NICE. You do some damn good work !!!

Thanks but Shawn deserves most of the credit. He's done 90% of the work and has put a lot of time in this. My involvement has been with the designs, drawings and some of the fabrication that needed my personal attention :smokin: .

Here's some of Shawn's work this weekend. My involvement only included harrasment for the booty fab work. :flipoff2:

The air tank is almost done. He used a 4" o.d. 1/8" wall 24" long tube. I think he will relocate a couple inlet/outlets but it's pretty much done. It will really only be used for the lockers.

As well, work on the beginnning of the exo cage for the cab started.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259571&stc=1&d=1156118497

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=259572&stc=1&d=1156118497

Thanks but Shawn deserves most of the credit. He's done 90% of the work and has put a lot of time in this. My involvement has been with the designs, drawings and some of the fabrication that needed my personal attention :smokin: .


i;ve seen your buggy so my statment is true, so you BOTH do great work :grinpimp:

Well, we're pretty much at the end of this build up.

Here's a few final shots of the air tank in place, the rear bed, the front end look and an interior shot.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261764&stc=1&d=1157291233

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261765&stc=1&d=1157291233

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261766&stc=1&d=1157291233

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261767&stc=1&d=1157291233

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261763&stc=1&d=1157291233

And here's a few shots of playing around the shop.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261768&stc=1&d=1157291622

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261769&stc=1&d=1157291622

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261770&stc=1&d=1157291622

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261771&stc=1&d=1157291622

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261772&stc=1&d=1157291622

And some final ones of how it looks overall.

The front does like to lift a couple inches with lots of gas...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261774&stc=1&d=1157291852

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261775&stc=1&d=1157291852

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261776&stc=1&d=1157291852

Yeah, Shawn's pretty happy with how it works.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=261773&stc=1&d=1157291852

I like your build very much. Congrats.

A little update...

The rig was tested at Paragon. No real issues showed up but a few changes have been made since the original build. Not much though, Shawn just finished up the exo cage and added a skidplate. Damage at Paragon was minimal and included a slightly bent front suspension link and a bent front steering link.

Now for the fixes, the front Currie Joints at the frame end of the front lower links developped some slop. Shawn changed them to heims. No problems now. Aside from that, the only issue is that the front driveshaft makes some noise at the steady bearing due to a little play in it. That can be fixed easy enough.

Here's a few pics from Paragon.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268648&stc=1&d=1161386906

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268649&stc=1&d=1161386906

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268650&stc=1&d=1161386906

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268651&stc=1&d=1161386906

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=268652&stc=1&d=1161386906

that thing is awesome, great job!

Here's a little preview of the brake calipers. We tried a lot of different calipers before we found these. They are early 90s Nissan Pathfinder front calipers.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238847&stc=1&d=1144542203

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238848&stc=1&d=1144542203

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=238849&stc=1&d=1144542203

were did you buy the disc brakes im making my own 406 and im interested to make it whit disc brakes

were did you buy the disc brakes im making my own 406 and im interested to make it whit disc brakes

Maybe, just maybe, you could READ the whole thread and find out for yourself instead of being spoonfed! :flipoff2:


Matt, Samiflyer from ZP here (bought the HAD flanges from ya), I don't know how you got Fred to part with those axles but you sure did a nice job with them. I bugged him for like a month straight and a case of beer each week but he wouldn't budge. They wouldn't have turned out this good with me anyhow.

Hell I didn't even realize what axles those were at the beginning of the thread. MuddMachine was over at my shop the other day and told me! Anyway, I'll see you guys at the Labour day bash. :smokin:


Sean :cool:

by far one of the coolest samurais ive seen.......fawk i want mogs!!!!:(

Matt, Samiflyer from ZP here (bought the HAD flanges from ya), I don't know how you got Fred to part with those axles but you sure did a nice job with them. I bugged him for like a month straight and a case of beer each week but he wouldn't budge. They wouldn't have turned out this good with me anyhow.

Hell I didn't even realize what axles those were at the beginning of the thread. MuddMachine was over at my shop the other day and told me! Anyway, I'll see you guys at the Labour day bash. :smokin:


Sean :cool:

Hey Sean,
Shawn traded Fred a front dana 60 and rear 70 which he bought off his brother in-law for the mog. I think Fred was looking for some, so it saved him some looking.

I'll have to post some updated pics soon. Shawn widden it a bit, put some 38" boggers, moved the airshocks to the back and just went coilovers on the front. Looks really good now.

Mat

Oh! And zamudioagustin, (inserting spoon :flipoff2: ) The rotors are rear 2003 GMC 3/4 HD with the center machined a bit bigger.

I'm a little bored tonight so here are some new pics.

The rig now sport 12" Fox coilovers all the way around, 38.5" bogger and the rims were recentered for ~4" of backspacing. Aside from that not too much new has been done to it.

That sammy is sweet!

So how have the brake adaptors been holding up for you? I mean the welded portions?

So how have the brake adaptors been holding up for you? I mean the welded portions?

No issues at all with the brakes and the welds to the cast. Shawn has been wheelling it quite a bit since he finished it so it has been well tested.

update?:homer:

This rig still gets wheeled all the time. No real major changes. Shawn just made some new upper front links from 7075 AL and is switching to 7/8" heims at each end for the new links. He also got a PSC pump for the steering and is relocating the rad ~2" higher for a little more diff clearance.

This rig is pretty much done. It works for how it is wheeled. You're not going to see a lot of changes any time soon. Shawn is happy with it.

Wow!

I am really thrilled to see this post as I am about to start similar mods to my own 411.119 Mog axles.

My mog was also used for mining at an underground mine near Thunder Bay, Ontario. The mechanics used it to haul parts down the ramp to an underground garage.

While I haven't heard of any others in this area, apparently there were some used in Elliot Lake.

Your work looks great. I am planning to use rims with less backspacing so I am hoping to have more room for calliper clearance. My goal is to be able to run 15" rims, as I have a new set of 15" 44" swampers on hand. Any thoughts on this?

If you need any technical references I have a full set of original factory service and parts manuals. Just PM me.

Looking forward to more posts.

J.P.


Hey guys

My name is Antony and i am from Greece.
I recently bought a 411 Unimog and i am in desperate need of a proper service manual.
Surfing around the net i found this thread and a couple page back you say you have some manuals.
Is it possible, you or someone else that also has unimog manuals has, to send them to me if there are in a pdf or similar form?
I especially want an electronics manual....
You can see my Mog on this site :
http://www.skartaekato.gr/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2028&start=0
(I know it sounds all Greek to you!!!)
My mail is antdiam@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance and sorry for the offtopic.Btw Amazing rig!!!

might have more luck if you just made a general thread of pm'ed the specific user.

great build, looks like a fun little truck.

thanks mate, i will truy that!

It's up for sale...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11637080#post11637080

WOw, nice build. Those axles look huge!!