Okay. Just grenaded another diff, no suprise for 10 spline stuff on 34s. However, it is not the axles but the spider gears that keep going. SO-
Looking at it from the CB POV, would you
-go with the toyota conversion
-put tru tracs or similar front and rear, to move the weak point to the axles and CVs
-swap for another axle altogether
-wuss out and put smaller tires on it
I am not ready to go the Great Basin route, gears lockers and such for $3k plus. Flame away, just thinking it through before I put the spare diff in.

Volvos. Portal reduction and stock lockers.

OK I voted for bacon, just because I love it, but from the poll choices the toy conversion (or bacon) seems to be the most reasonable option. if you put in traction diffs with the 10 spline stuff (or even 24 spline rover) you are asking for breakage, unless you baaaaby your rig. Bacon is good, too.

OK I voted for bacon, just because I love it, but from the poll choices the toy conversion (or bacon) seems to be the most reasonable option. if you put in traction diffs with the 10 spline stuff (or even 24 spline rover) you are asking for breakage, unless you baaaaby your rig. Bacon is good, too.

I heard about this type of bacon you could get in Europe. You cook it down real good and then poor the grease from it into the dif house. Better then 90wt oil. Will help to hold your diff together.

Pete

Voted trutracs
It's what I've done myself on my DD/mild offroader RRC. I flog it hard, though.
Switched to 24-spline using Keith-Rovertracks axles rear but kept it 10-spline front. It's a 1989 so has the sturdier CV.

Bang for the buck absolutely rocking. Bombproof? No, but Iwheel with XCL's 7.50 equal 32" and with low tire pressure it gives plenty of traction.

Tobias

I used to go through Rover diffs at an alarming rate. I think the spider gears can't handle a huge amount of wheelspin before they seize on the shafts and your all done. Switching to a TT front and Detroit rear cured that, then I started breaking shafts and CV's. Rovertraks 24/30 spline axles (front)w/ Longfeild CV's cured that, and I've flailed the ever living shite out of them (product testing trying to see if the RP becomes the weak link?) no problems even w/ 35"s out playing on the rocks with the buggies. Good stuff.

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

Since we ave no search, I am working from memory here.
The Yota swap requires diffs, modifying the housing and 24 spline axles in the rear, correct? What else is needed? I intend to do all this myself exept for some machine work.

unless you want to swap the front differential at the same time, detroit + RT 24spl shafts.

if you're willing to do the front, too, you can regear to 4.10 fairly inexpensively and use whatever you want. the e-locker front seems to be the hot ticket, as getting a truetrack in there is 300 for the bare housing and ~400 for a TT; a built 3rd high pinion elocker is going for $880.

edit: 30spl in the rear :smokin:

D60! All the really cool kids are doing it (the cool kids are doing toyota).

Sal's in the rear! Mike McCraig has a few laying around his place over in your area, Chuck. If you talk with Keith at Rover Tracks, he can set you up with what you need for the disc brake conversion. A Detroit for that axle is cheap, and I don't think you would ever break anything in that axle with 34's and a 3.9 motor.

Go Toyota up front! By the time you add up axles, ARB, and re-gearing, the Toyota set-up is a stronger/cheaper route. OR, you could just build a HP60 and be done....

Don't know what prices are like in the US, but a few people in OZ have put entire LC80 series axles under their range rovers. If you can pick up the acles cheap this would probably be one of the cheapest ways to go. You can then upgrade to lockers and longfields at a later date if you want to.

Have a look here:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=67945

Ben, the FJ80 stuff isn't going for too bad, but complete axles are still fetching premium dollar, at least it is in the pacific northwest. I think a front axle w/ elocker is running around US $1,200 and up.

I can E Mail out the instructions to anyone who would like to see that basics of what is involved in a Toy conversion..
I will probably not be doing many more 35 spine Sals opting to bore the factory spindles using RR hubs (for Disc brakes) and 30 spline 300 M shafts.

Here’s a quick overview on the Toyota conversion in my truck…A Series. Basically the same as the coil sprung except my truck has 44 size front axles with u-joints instead of CVs.

http://seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html

Any of you coil-sprung Toyota guys consider using 4340 44 shafts and CTM joints? As they run in oil you could pull the seals and grease caps off the joints and they’d be happy up there. Ever consider it Keith?

Jim

Since we ave no search, I am working from memory here.


No search, but you can sort by replies and date. And the number one thread of all time is....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367387

edit: Obviously I vote Toy conversion.

Thanks for all the thread directs, I shall ponder this week while swapping the last spare in...

you can order a complete front 60 for 1150 shipped to your door from doug brown on this board in the vendor section.
drawback, big heavy cast iron monster instead of the sexy svelte setup that keith is selling.
but then when do we draw the line?
gm 6.2l na diesel, 700r4 tranny dodge and chevy 60s front and rear? keep the lt230?
why not just swap the rover body onto a cucv from the army surplus yard.



i drew the line at bacon.:D

you can order a complete front 60 for 1150 shipped to your door from doug brown on this board in the vendor section.



Does that include gears, axles and a locker? If so, what a deal!

Does that include gears, axles and a locker? If so, what a deal!
yep, it comes with gears and axles just like every STOCK axle comes with gears and axles, hence the word COMPLETE:rolleyes: .
and for $3 you can weld up the diff just like me. it steers fine. and no i don't unlock any hubs.
$1150 for a stock servicable axle is fair market price. sure i got my front 60 for $250, but i had to get very creative to do it.
basically buy a whole one ton chevy 4x and part it out. and it was a giant pain in the ass. not really worth it in my opinion.
in my case i would like to just have 8 lug on all of my vehicles as it makes things a little more simple.

now if you were really asking me if that was really the deal and not just being sarcastic then no, that is a complete axle with usually 4.10 or 4.56 (which is ok) and no locker.
$700 for the arb
$150 for the 5.38s you probably want
$500 for alloy usa axles (35 spline outers)
---you can still run new prod stock spicer u joints, as they actually hold up pretty well.
$180 for the drive flanges and bob is your uncle
cheaper than the toy conversion?
maybe not.
but hey......these go to 11...........

I will probably not be doing many more 35 spine Sals opting to bore the factory spindles using RR hubs (for Disc brakes) and 30 spline 300 M shafts.

Keith, I am interested in these 300M shafts for my sals - can you PM or email me a price.

SeaRover - thanks for the info, didn't know they were that $$$.

This morning, I am thinking I might just toss a trutrac in the back and eliminate the weak spot, the 2 pin set up and go from there. If axlesgo snapple, then put HD in there, but this should cover me for the level of stuff I am doing. If I do the install myself, then not much invested so far. Still thinking.

This morning, I am thinking I might just toss a trutrac in the back and eliminate the weak spot, the 2 pin set up and go from there. If axlesgo snapple, then put HD in there, but this should cover me for the level of stuff I am doing. If I do the install myself, then not much invested so far. Still thinking.

If you do break one of your stock axles with a truetrac in there you will most likley damage the truetrac as well.

Like I said.

If you are very easy on your stuff, a 10-spline might be OK.
I would at least find decent 2nd hand 24-spline original shafts, so you can go for a 24-spline TT, then the upgrade to stronger shafts is easielr, since it seems noone makes better 10-spliners anymore.

Keith sells his shafts at a good price, though.

T

Buy a complete rear axle assembly out of a discovery (24 spline) for a hundred bucks and throw it in. then stop driving so hard until you can afford to really upgrade the axles.

now if you were really asking me if that was really the deal and not just being sarcastic then no, that is a complete axle with usually 4.10 or 4.56 (which is ok) and no locker.
$700 for the arb
$150 for the 5.38s you probably want
$500 for alloy usa axles (35 spline outers)
---you can still run new prod stock spicer u joints, as they actually hold up pretty well.
$180 for the drive flanges and bob is your uncle
cheaper than the toy conversion?
maybe not.
but hey......these go to 11...........

Not being sarcastic for once.

In the end the Toy conversion might be cheaper and it would allow you to retain your stock width. If one had the fab skills and was so inclined there really is little doubt that the D60 would be stronger (at least with upgraded material), however it is still a hug pig and I would get hung up even more than I currently do if I had this.

But... Your CG would be way low with those heavy things under the truck!

I will say again, boneyard discovery rear axle for a hundred smackers and then throw a 24 spline TT in it. You could be on the road again for $600 with a bunch of spare parts to sell to somebody to recoup your cost (your complete 10 spline axle).

www.car-part.com

there is a yard near me that has these rear axles for $100. for a handling fee i will put it on a pallet for ya.

I just remembered, if you really want to do this on the cheap look at the possibility of swapping in a P38 RR/DII third member assembly into a earlier housing. These had 4 pin diffs.

Just remember that in order to run 24 spline shafts in your truck you might have to swap the spindles and hubs over as well.

he's got a 92 so ABS hubs and spindles - no issues running 24spline for him.

bolting up the whole axle is a ton more work than popping out the third, which has to be done anyway, and sliding in new shafts.

with all the parts there the whole ordeal should take less than an hour. sounds like our boy here as a bit of experience swapping diffs :flipoff2: so i think it's safe to say that a simple diff 'n shaft swap would be the easiest route.

92, but no ABS. Go figure. I agree about the disco swap, I can source what I need here for not much $$$. I will chase one down, swap the TT into the diff, keep the axles and hubs and see what breaks next.
Thanks for the offer to pallet one for me, I will get back to you if one does not materialize here.

I will say again, boneyard discovery rear axle for a hundred smackers and then throw a 24 spline TT in it. You could be on the road again for $600 with a bunch of spare parts to sell to somebody to recoup your cost (your complete 10 spline axle).

www.car-part.com



The biggest problem with this mentality is that you will break again! Which is fine in most instances, but if your on an organized trail run you are now inconveniencing other people due to your own cheapness. I don't mind people breaking on trails if they are setup to run trails.

If you break it more than once than you need to build it differently. i.e. upgrade.

One word of advice about the disco axles- they will all have the rotoflex useless piece of junk tripod pinion flange on them. You will have to buy a new flange (or proper used) in order to bolt it up to your RRC driveshaft.

OR you could put the 24 spline true trac in your 10 spline third and sell off the disco third for spares.

he will not break again if he is driving with his brain and only runs 34s. if strength ever becomes an issue there is always the availability to upgrade to HD 24 spline shafts without having to replace any other parts.

I know comparatively few people who have actually broken a HD 24 spline shaft under normal circumstances. I know that it has been done, but likewise there are a lot of people out there who mercilessly beat on there trucks and have had no issues with upgraded shafts.

Chuck,

If you want, I will trade you spindels, and hubs, and I will sell you some 24-spline axles (stockers). I need your spindels and hubs for the Sal's convert....

And, if you really want it, I have a stock 24-spline diff.

But still, if I were you, I'd call Mike and get a Sal's. You can always add the locker to it later, if your strapped for cash.

Just remember, your front end is not going to last much longer, either.....

the fronts actually typically last much better than the rears because the rears most often blow up when powering up a hillclimb or similar, IE lots of weight on the rearend. The front can be made to last by not winding it out with wheelspeed on flat ground or on a mild uphill.

Mike's sals' must be leaf sprungs, right? Any idea what he's getting for them?

I will say again, boneyard discovery rear axle for a hundred smackers and then throw a 24 spline TT in it. You could be on the road again for $600 with a bunch of spare parts to sell to somebody to recoup your cost (your complete 10 spline axle).

www.car-part.com

there is a yard near me that has these rear axles for $100. for a handling fee i will put it on a pallet for ya.


I would NOT do this!!! I just gave away a rear axle housing and diff for free. I never knew that going to 24 splines axles was an upgrade? If you go to 24 splines and even a TT, you will break that crap in no time! Just do it right the first time or you'll be fixing broken parts all day long. There's just no point in building something that you can't feel comfortable with on the trail and chances are, you'll eventually go to a little bigger tire. I didn't feel comfortable with GBR HD axles and 35's.

I'd rather have something that is slightly stronger than slightly weaker than what you need. Also, you've got a great truck, it deserves lockers not that TT crap. Remeber that those ring gears are weak too, I broke one with 33's.

Mike's sals' must be leaf sprungs, right? Any idea what he's getting for them?

Mike?
Front or rear?
Actual sals or conversion?

Not being sarcastic for once.

In the end the Toy conversion might be cheaper and it would allow you to retain your stock width. If one had the fab skills and was so inclined there really is little doubt that the D60 would be stronger (at least with upgraded material), however it is still a hug pig and I would get hung up even more than I currently do if I had this.

But... Your CG would be way low with those heavy things under the truck!
my front 60 on my rock buggy is shaved and has maybe 3/4 more sticking out than a stock toy. hanging my front diff is not one of my big problems (lack of skill is).
here is the deal.
you spend lets say $3k doing the toy swap front and rear. first off i want to profoundly say that i think what keith is marketing is a VERY SUPERIOR product. and it is fairly priced, not like some dynatrac sillyness.
but then what? my buggy weighs in at a svelte 3200lbs.
my disco? big pig.....
i am still running stock 60 axles, the neck down crappy ones with 30 spl outers, and i can still flog the piss out of them. stuff that a year ago was eating my d44 shafts for lunch.
if i want to upgrade the 60, $3k will buy a lot of bombproof goodies.

here is what it comes down to for me.
i like the cv style axle that is cool.
but the brakes on a rover, even a toy hybrid with d90 rotors....yada, yada, yada...are CRAP. and i don't know of a good solution.
and do i really think that the little tiny knuckles are going to hold up to some 36" iroks?
for our kind of wheeling there is no point in "modorately built" any trail i don't need some big guns for out here, i can get by in a stock disco.
i want one tons just so i can have front mounted crossover steering, get rid of my leaky ass stearing box, and have brakes that can actually stop me. so far all the pedal on the left is for is to signal my intentions.:rolleyes:

I didn't feel comfortable with GBR HD axles and 35's.

How many GBR axles did you break?

How many GBR axles did you break?

I didn't say that I broke any, did I? Twisting the splines was enough for me.

I didn't say that I broke any, did I? Twisting the splines was enough for me.

I think "you will break that crap in no time!" implies breakage on your part. Soo, no breakage but twisted splines? I was under the impression that the alloy GBR uses is the springy stuff that will regain its shape, or break. Apparently not quite so?

To break a 3.54 ring gear with 33s you must drive like a freaking moron.

Dan, we can suss this out in the near future, I know Will has some DI stuff floating around as well. I think a Truetrac or Detroit and some beefier 24 spline axles should eliminate the weakest points. My fronts are not an issue, I have three spare CVs and a full set of inner and outer shafts. Never had a problem with them, but I try to be judicious (sp?) with the pedal if the wheels are turned. Down the road the goal is to take some weight off the truck, lose the roof and maybe bob it. FWIW, another guy who was out with us on Sunday, wheeling the same lines I was taking, broke an outer axle in the front. He was running ARBs on Rovertracks CVs... I still think his breakage may have been due to a loose spindle nut, as the spindle was broken off between the two nuts.

To break a 3.54 ring gear with 33s you must drive like a freaking moron.

I know a few people who broke 3.54 ring gears on 33's (and even 32's) who don't drive like freaking morons. However almost all of these breakages were rear diffs when the vehicle in question was recovering another vehicle.

By contrast I know a few people with 35's and MD lockers who have never broken anything but CVs.

Chuck,
I think that breakage of the HD stuff just goes to show HD's are not the answer to the problems. Yes, it's better than stock; but you like to run the harder trails. When you run the harder stuff, you get a fever to go bigger and bigger. Your on 34's now. Soon, I can see you with no top, full cage, bobbed rear, and 38's.

If your going to pay 500.00 for a rear diff, 400.00 for rear axles, and ~100.00 on hubs; why not spend an extra few bucks and get a stronger set-up that will handle the harder trails?

Same with the front end....700.00 for an ARB, 1000.00 on axles and CV's. Or, build up a 60 hybrid. At the very least, Toyota.

If you were driving a clean truck on 265's and a rainbow sticker in the rear window, I'd say go with the HD stuff. But, you'll just break it. I'm just talking from experience here....

Oh, and I have a theory on Jeff's breakage, too. I think the CV gave loose first. That was a nasty looking break, and there were a lot of small pieces in there. I think when the CV broke, those little piece needed somewhere to go. Once the axle made another turn, those pieces got "jammed" between the CV and the spindle, causing the spindle to "expand" and break as well.

Anyway, I could be persuaded to sell you my Detroit and rear axles.....

To break a 3.54 ring gear with 33s you must drive like a freaking moron.


Funny you say that my friend. I have driven like a moren before which I attribute to the lack of experience. We all started with no experience if I recall correctly? When I broke the ring gear, it was the rear, on a steep hill climb on slick rock in MOAB. Nothing remotely moronic about it. :flipoff2:

Chuck,
Same with the front end....700.00 for an ARB, 1000.00 on axles and CV's. Or, build up a 60 hybrid. At the very least, Toyota.



Another thing to consider. If you go with Bobby Longs sexy new 300M CV's, they have a lifetime guarantee against breakager. Read only buy them once!

Also, they don't cost $1000. Probably closer to $700.

You gonna fit them in stock spindles without having the holes bored/machined? How about drive flanges, are they free? You wanna put a bearing or a bushing in there while your at it, or just let them run metal to metal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABrooks
Mike's sals' must be leaf sprungs, right? Any idea what he's getting for them?

Just have the one leafer left and it may go under my "88.

Oh, and I have a theory on Jeff's breakage, too. I think the CV gave loose first. That was a nasty looking break, and there were a lot of small pieces in there. I think when the CV broke, those little piece needed somewhere to go. Once the axle made another turn, those pieces got "jammed" between the CV and the spindle, causing the spindle to "expand" and break as well.

Anyway, I could be persuaded to sell you my Detroit and rear axles.....

Yeah, I think so too. I had both front hubs off after MAR, and Im a paranoid freak about tightnening, checking, etc. so I think the pieces just got mashed around whilst winching the junk up that hill. Just wasnt a comfortable place to stop and look...

Whatcha gonna put in the back if you sell Cptyarderho your rear??

Sal's in the rear, and a HP Ford 60 up front, if I can make it work. If not, I'll put a LP Chevy 60 in the front.

why are you being such a dick?

:shaking:

You gonna fit them in stock spindles without having the holes bored/machined? How about drive flanges, are they free? You wanna put a bearing or a bushing in there while your at it, or just let them run metal to metal?

why are you being such a dick?

:shaking:
You said you could get axles for 700.00. Okay, I guess you can, but thats like buying a motor with no crank and pistons; a whore with a dick; o'dules; a stereo with no speakers; a toilet that does not flush.... After you buy your Toyota axles, what are you going to do with them, skippy?

You said you could get axles for 700.00. Okay, I guess you can, but thats like buying a motor with no crank and pistons; a whore with a dick; o'dules; a stereo with no speakers; a toilet that does not flush.... After you buy your Toyota axles, what are you going to do with them, skippy?

It's not that much work to have this stuff done, or just get it from Keith. Machining isn't that expensive. This is truly a fairly straightforward swap. Well documented and well tested. To date, I believe there isn't a single toy swap that has broken anything. Unless you count the guys who swapped in stock parts (64rovr).

Anybody, even you, could perform this swap.

You said you could get axles for 700.00. Okay, I guess you can, but thats like buying a motor with no crank and pistons; a whore with a dick; o'dules; a stereo with no speakers; a toilet that does not flush.... After you buy your Toyota axles, what are you going to do with them, skippy?


ok wise guy - let me know when you get that kingpin Dana60 bolted in, mmK?

you can buy one of those for about $1200 and proceed to have fun with your "whore with a dick". your words not mine :laughing:

If you were in Australia or Britain where these components are readily and cheaply available' I would advise 110 (preferably not defender as these have crap shafts and flanges)Salisbury rear and Maxidrive uprated front with strengthened cv's. I think the early stock Salisbury shafts were very durable and probably stronger than custom Toyota shafts may be. Mal Story of Maxidrive once told me that unless you have complete 100% control over the design,manufacturing and heat treating process, even a titanium axle shaft would end up inferior to a good stock axle.The jury seems to still be out on the durability of Longfields in OZ. Until this issue is resolved it probably isn't worth going to a Toyota up front as the 3.54 rover ring and pinion is still capable of breaking a strengthened cv. The downside of the Sals is weight and ground clearance, even when shaved they have a lot of surface area at the bottom.
the upside is strength and stock,available over the counter parts. the ability to be upgraded to handle really big tyres and lots of horsepower
There is so much drivetrain backlash in Rover fulltime fourwheel drive systems that a Detroit locker would be my last choice as a traction aid as these multiply backlash considerably. My choice ARB.
Bill.

Your right Larry, but can you do it for 700.00 total? I said the set-up would be about 1000.00 for the front end..... He said it's closer to 700.00. I'm no rocket scientist, but I did do this.:flipoff2:
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/DSC00539%7E0.jpg

Let me know when you can do a Toyota swap, as Searover mentioned, for 700.00. Let me know when you can do it for double that!

If you use the 2522 CV's out of a 110, as mentioned, you end up with a 5-gallon bucket of this:
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/110cv.jpg

1200.00 for a D-60? They run half that over here.....

That CV looks too shite and briny to be a genuine 2522 one. I am color blind but genuine 2522's are a dark grey color I think.. I know people who have tried the cheap aftermarket cv's and can understand how one could end up with a bucket load.
Bill.

I think the early stock Salisbury shafts were very durable and probably stronger than custom Toyota shafts may be. Mal Story of Maxidrive once told me that unless you have complete 100% control over the design,manufacturing and heat treating process, even a titanium axle shaft would end up inferior to a good stock axle.The jury seems to still be out on the durability of Longfields in OZ. Until this issue is resolved it probably isn't worth going to a Toyota up front as the 3.54 rover ring and pinion is still capable of breaking a strengthened cv.
Bill.

This is absolutely false! It has been proven with a controlled test that the Longfield Toyota 300M 30-spline cv's are stronger than a stock D60 axle, essentially a sals axle. This is the CV we're talking about here, supposedly the weakest point of the front-end.

Bobby Longs manufacturing process is very controlled. I hope you assumed we were referring to stock components. That is not the case. Also generally when we talk about the toy conversion we are also talking about replacing the diff with a toy unit. The toy r&p is superior in every way to the rover unit.

That being said, one can just convert the axles and cv's and leave the rover pig in place. But what's the point really? :confused:

That CV looks too shite and briny to be a genuine 2522 one. I am color blind but genuine 2522's are a dark grey color I think.. I know people who have tried the cheap aftermarket cv's and can understand how one could end up with a bucket load.
Bill.
LOL....This is indeed a Genuine 2522. In addition, it has been treated with a tempering process to reduce the hardness. Anotherwords, Mal's shit ain't bulletproof either. But, that was a RT's CV pictured.

To top it off, that was done on 33's and a TT diff at about 1/3's of a mile-per-hour on some rocks. I don't know how some people get by with 35"+ tires and these CV's....

That CV looks too shite and briny to be a genuine 2522 one. I am color blind but genuine 2522's are a dark grey color I think.. I know people who have tried the cheap aftermarket cv's and can understand how one could end up with a bucket load.
Bill.

yeah - that looks like one of the generics. my AEU2522's have no sheen at all on the bell.

I do not disagree that the Toyota third is superior in everyway to a Rover one , and I want to believe that Longfield has produced the goods,but unless some of the comp guys in OZ have received a faulty batch of Longfield joints, which were deformed beyond usability, then I still think it isn't really worth fitting a toyota third member in the front in conjunction with my suggested Salisbury rear as the ratio's dont match anyway.
Bill.

i've beat the living shit out of my 2522's and have no breakage on 33's and a truetrack front diff.

LOL....This is indeed a Genuine 2522. In addition, it has been treated with a tempering process to reduce the hardness. Anotherwords, Mal's shit ain't bulletproof either. But, that was a RT's CV pictured.

To top it off, that was done on 33's and a TT diff at about 1/3's of a mile-per-hour on some rocks. I don't know how some people get by with 35"+ tires and these CV's....

If you have altered the heat treatment how can you call it a genuine CV ?
I cannot tell by the photo but it does not appear to have a ring welded to it to strengthen it. Did you dress the stock sharp edges of the ball tracks to reduce the likelihood of cracks forming ?
Bill.

If you have altered the heat treatment how can you call it a genuine CV ?
I cannot tell by the photo but it does not appear to have a ring welded to it to strengthen it. Did you dress the stock sharp edges of the ball tracks to reduce the likelihood of cracks forming ?
Bill.

LOL, yeah, I'm making it up as I go....You guys remind me of Steve Young.

Here is yet another 2522 CV. It is a Genuine CV that has been treated so it is stronger than it's stock form. If you don't understand that Agrover, do a search and you'll gather more information than I can ever tell you about it.
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/toys%20029.jpg
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/toys%20030.jpg


And another.....
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/toys%20027.jpg

Are the edges "dressed" or radius-ed? You tell me......
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/toys%20028.jpg

Want more????
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/cv3.jpg

Not one of mine, but here is one that broke this past weekend on 34's and an ARB. Oh, it's shiney too. Hmmm, must be fake.
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/DCP_6154.JPG

Not one of mine, but here is one that broke this past weekend on 34's and an ARB. Oh, it's shiney too. Hmmm, must be fake.
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/DCP_6154.JPG

Maybe not fake but the clean break at the stub shaft a couple of photos up suggest the heat treatment has been screwed with rather than improved.
I am not saying that genuine 2522's are the ultimate by any means, but a cv joint on a daily driven fulltime four wheel drive that is required to cover thousands of miles of on road travel as well as coping with the stresses of offroad work should have a balance of surface hardness for wear resistance with a tough ductile core to resist shock loads. Toyota CV's are quite ductile but have very little hardness, so they wear quickly.Rover ones are through hardened and the heat treater had better really know his trade before attempting screwing with them.
Bill.

I want to believe that Longfield has produced the goods,but unless some of the comp guys in OZ have received a faulty batch of Longfield joints, which were deformed beyond usability, then I still think it isn't really worth fitting a toyota third member in the front.

Bill,

You must be talking about the old longfields where they took a stock CV, welded a ring on them and heat-treated them. The NEW style of Longfield CV's are completely different and made new from 4340 for the CV portion and the cage is made from 300M.

I suggest you go over to the Toyota section here on Pirate and read up on the new CV’s because they are beating on them without issue. As a matter of fact I do not think anyone has managed to break one of the production units yet.

Here is yet another 2522 CV. It is a Genuine CV that has been treated so it is stronger than it's stock form.

But it's also possible that the person doing the heat treating didn't know what they were doing and in effect weakened the CV

After seeing what the Toy guys do with the Longs, I have to say that I was extremely impressed. If the choice is between upgradeing the Rover stuff and the Toy conversion, there just isn't much to debate about, Toy all the way.

However, when the debate switches to Toy or D60, I say D60 all the way. I have seen the nice little graph that shows a long CV holding up as well as a stock d-60 and I don't believe it for a second. 60's are the way to go, no doubt in my mind. I have been known to be wronge though... Pricing is a big issue. I wanted a kingpin axle and I had to pay $1050 for it and it was in pretty crappy shape. Then all the shortened guts, 35 outers and sundry and it gets real pricey.

But it's also possible that the person doing the heat treating didn't know what they were doing and in effect weakened the CV
Or, if that was the case he would be belly up and out of business.

Dave,
The New Longfields are breaking too. My friend has busted two 30-spline CV's from Bobby. He is wearing 38's, and of course, he's locked. They lasted about 4-months on an off-road only truck. Bobby did cover them under warrenty, though.

Agrover,
I know what your trying to say, but your way off track here. I can't explain the clean break, but I've seen it on different makes of axles. In theroy, the break *should* be broken like glass, but this is not the first one I've seen break clean.

Reguardless, the 2522 CV is not the answer to a HD set-up. If you think so, go ahead and waste your money. Yes, it's stronger than stock, but it's still going to break.

The New Longfields are breaking too. My friend has busted two 30-spline CV's from Bobby. He is wearing 38's, and of course, he's locked. They lasted about 4-months on an off-road only truck.

Got any documentation of this? Pics?

Bill,

You must be talking about the old longfields where they took a stock CV, welded a ring on them and heat-treated them. The NEW style of Longfield CV's are completely different and made new from 4340 for the CV portion and the cage is made from 300M.

I suggest you go over to the Toyota section here on Pirate and read up on the new CV’s because they are beating on them without issue. As a matter of fact I do not think anyone has managed to break one of the production units yet.

I believe the ones I referred to and read about on Outerlimts are the 300 m ones. I am not much chop at the Internet so maybe Ben,AKA IsuzuRover, if he reads this can do a cross post of that particular thread.
I was very interested in the machine tests that Longfield conducted on his CV's and other axles and have always believed that a Birfield joint is potentially stronger than a UJ in a purely torsional test. But the test doesn't reproduce cyclic shock loads or the effect of countless thousands of miles of on and off road travel that many trucks in Australia and I assume the USA are expected to cover. Maybe the Competition guys don't mind replacing worn but not broken CV's every few events, and a worn cv is not a disaster on the trail like a shattered one would be, but for my money (Longfields are $$$$ here in OZ) I want them to last at least 40,000 miles before I replace them. I have pulled 2522's out of early 110's with upwards of 200,000 miles of allround use and they were almost like new, so perhaps there is an ideal compromise between long wear life and durability.
Bill.

Roverjunkie has a D60 Under the front of the Truggie with another housing already shortend and sitting on the garage floor with rover brackets attached. I'm not saying it is for sale but you never know. The Eaton was a pretty straight forward swap into the back also.

The other issue that has only been lightly touched on here is brakes. The toy cnversion does nothing to improve the brakes. The Dana upgrade or similar complete axle swap will most likely address the weak brakes. I wish i had 1 ton brakes and axles :D

Got any documentation of this? Pics?
Not really. The only pic's I have you can't tell they are the new CV's.

But, if you want to, call Bobby and ask him what happened to Jeremy Graham's CV, from Dayton, VA. Or, link him to this thread. All I can tell you is to ask Bobby.....

Roverjunkie has a D60 Under the front of the Truggie with another housing already shortend and sitting on the garage floor with rover brackets attached. I'm not saying it is for sale but you never know. The Eaton was a pretty straight forward swap into the back also.

The other issue that has only been lightly touched on here is brakes. The toy cnversion does nothing to improve the brakes. The Dana upgrade or similar complete axle swap will most likely address the weak brakes. I wish i had 1 ton brakes and axles :D

John,
Have you thought about a Toyota V-6 truck steering pump? You can drill it to get a better power steering set-up for larger tires, and you can also hose in Hydro brakes! I have not seen this done, but the pump will fit the rover bracket with very little mods, from what I understand.

Yes Steering is another issue to be addressed. I planned on looking into it more after the garage was done but I seem to have aquired a J**p that needs some work so that will get put on the back burner for a while.

i also read about a chevy s-10 pump being a bolt in replacement. I think the rover pump is ok just needs the ram assist for the big tires.

What is it with J**p's and garages? http://virginia4x4.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=436

I heard about the S-10 pump too. Sounds cool. But, I like the Hydro breaks options, too!

What D-60 did Drew use up front?

Not really. The only pic's I have you can't tell they are the new CV's.

But, if you want to, call Bobby and ask him what happened to Jeremy Graham's CV, from Dayton, VA. Or, link him to this thread. All I can tell you is to ask Bobby.....


He's broken them. I used his shop to install my Toyo stuff.

Hey DChapman, they’re cheap when you get the centers for free. :flipoff2:

A V6 4:10 we towed in today. I’ll put a full used assm. in it and get the chuck for nothing. It seems I do a few of these every year. I’ve got a new style Tundra/T100 with the bridged bearing cap sitting in the shed too.

http://seriestrek.com/images/toy1.jpg

jim

V6 thirds are a dime a dozen..... I've got access to a stack of V6 diffs, 5.29 and 4.1 gear sets, if you want some spares.... Also have an E-locker with 5.29's in it my buddy is trying to sell, if you want something.

Either way, you can put your V6 rear end in the front of your rover, add your Longfield axles/CV's, etc... Then what? Are you going to add a locker? You can buy the entire 3rd from Inchworm, for what, 800.00? Is it really worth it? I don't think your 4-runner there has the E-locker, but I may be wrong....

Either way, you think that 3rd is as strong as a D-60? Are they still cheap if your broke on the trail?
http://www.virginia4x4.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/OHV%202005%20022.jpg

Nah, I’m all set. I put a pair of factory 4:56 e-lockers right from Toyota in my 88” Series. 4340 rears and 4340 Dana 44 fronts and it’s done. I could have put CTM’s in the front but as the outers are turned down to 24 spline I didn’t figure it was worth it.

You know what’s cool about running Toy stuff? Say I do break a rear out in the bush. (Doubtful in that little truck with 75 diesel hp!) Give me an hour and the front and rear chucks are out, front chuck goes in the back, hubs unlocked and I drive it 1000 miles home. Try to do that with a pair of 60s. :flipoff2:

Try to do that with a pair of 60s. :flipoff2:

If you break a D-60 diff, I have a feeling your going to have more problems than trying to get off the trail.

I agree with you the 3rd's are nice. But the whole idea is not to break. In your case, with an 88", the Toyota stuff is pretty over kill, especially the 4340 rear axles. But if you want to run a 37"+ tire in the rocks, the Toyota stuff is border line.

D Chapman
was that toy third in a full float axle or semi float. i don't think you will break the bearing caps in a toy diff that way when it is in a rover housing as it takes a diff that was made to be sf and changes to a ff but i could be wrong
Drew

It was a SF axle. But, the bearing caps did not break. The bearing fell apart after another part of the diff caused damage to it. I'm not sure what it's called, but a part of the locking mechanism is what let loose first.....

I thought I had a better pic of the damage, but I can't find it.

That's a known problem with the e-lockers (check the toyota forum). The fix is ARB.

My philosophy is different. i am not stupid enough to try to build something that will not break. Instead, I will build something that i know how it will break, and that shares spare parts with my wheeling buddies so that we can all support each other.

I agree completely that if you break a D60 diff you have bigger problems on your hands. But I will break a Rover or even a Toyota diff any day before I break a driveshaft, transfer case, transmission, etc. I'll stick to what i know, and to what i can easily swap around and fix to get home.

I believe the ones I referred to and read about on Outerlimts are the 300 m ones. I am not much chop at the Internet so maybe Ben,AKA IsuzuRover, if he reads this can do a cross post of that particular thread.
I was very interested in the machine tests that Longfield conducted on his CV's and other axles and have always believed that a Birfield joint is potentially stronger than a UJ in a purely torsional test. But the test doesn't reproduce cyclic shock loads or the effect of countless thousands of miles of on and off road travel that many trucks in Australia and I assume the USA are expected to cover. Maybe the Competition guys don't mind replacing worn but not broken CV's every few events, and a worn cv is not a disaster on the trail like a shattered one would be, but for my money (Longfields are $$$$ here in OZ) I want them to last at least 40,000 miles before I replace them. I have pulled 2522's out of early 110's with upwards of 200,000 miles of allround use and they were almost like new, so perhaps there is an ideal compromise between long wear life and durability.
Bill.

Bill; I take it you are referring to Tony's (RUFF) comments???

He said something along the lines of being able to deform a cro-mo longfield "beyond use" in one comp/stage. But I can't find the comment now. Let me know if you know where the thread is.

By contrast, beebee (dave) has been driving on his cro-mo longfileds for quite a while without braking them. But from the times I have seen them drive, Tony is a lot harder on components than dave.

The fact that the longfield design has recently been revised with larger balls, suggest that some people may have been experiencing wear problems. But there must be a lot of people running them in the US by now...

I’m getting to the point on my 110/series hybrid project where I’ll probably start messing with the axles in a month or two and want to order stuff now. While this topic is raging, I might as well ask:

If I put at most a mild (2”) lift on this thing and run at most 33’s w/ ARB’s front and rear – anybody think I’ll have any complaints upgrading the stock sals rear and rover front with GBR/maxi drive 24 spline stuff? Seems like the concencus is that the GBR shafts should hold up to 33’s and lockers. But what about CV’s and the 3.54 rover front 3rd… are they going to s$%t out on me? What’s the best upgraded CV that I can get for the stock rover axle, and will it work with the GBR shafts?

Just thinking about the pro’s of the toy conversion, $ and durability wise. I’m looking for a setup that – for a mild ride on 32’s or 33’s – would be bombproof. Hell, I wouldn’t really even mind keeping the 7.50x16’s if it came down to it.

Oh yeah – worth mentioning – I’m running a 4:1 Orion Land Cruiser case and an NV4500 for an 80:1 crawl ratio. The engine is a Cummins 4BT. So I’m probably putting a max of about 2.5 to three times the torque through this drivetrain than was stock (330ft lbs vs. stock gasser, 4:1 vs. 2.xx: 1 stock T-case). So a further question might be – will an ARB and the maxi shafts stand for 70% or so of that torque channeling through one tire that happens to hookup? These aren’t really sick numbers, but definitely more than any stock LR stuff.

[QUOTE=ISUZUROVER]Bill; I take it you are referring to Tony's (RUFF) comments???

He said something along the lines of being able to deform a cro-mo longfield "beyond use" in one comp/stage. But I can't find the comment now. Let me know if you know where the thread is.

I don't recall where the thread was Ben, but on that thread I do recall you saying you would test a stock 2522 in one side and one of your Longfields in the other side to compare wear rates.
Bill.

Greasy,
I think your Sal's stock shafts would be fine, with 33's.

Up front, I would not fuck with the GBR stuff, it's just a waste of time. For less money, you could do the Toyota convert, and have a stronger set-up for less money. You would have to swap the 3.54 gears in the Sal's, though.

Greasy,
I think your Sal's stock shafts would be fine, with 33's.

Up front, I would not fuck with the GBR stuff, it's just a waste of time. For less money, you could do the Toyota convert, and have a stronger set-up for less money. You would have to swap the 3.54 gears in the Sal's, though.

The other option is what Rovertracks sells. Cheaper than Maxi and there's a chance Keith will replace them if you ever break them.

Way cheaper than Maxi BTW. You can also just do the Toy outers and keep the rover diff, another option few people are aware of.

Why would you go with toy outers w/o upgrading the rover center? Wouldn’t that be bass ackwards?

What ratio do you have to switch the Sals to for the toy conversion? A 3.73 would actually be ideal, but anything higher would be no good unless I went bigger on the meats. I know I’ve seen info on some conversions here, but I can’t find it w/o search and google is giving me shit. I know there is a thread on the toy conversion somewhere…

Whats the down side to the GBR crap DC? No good? How do the Rovertracks units stack up?

I will pay somewhat of a premium (within reason) for something that plugs right in to the stock unit… or really anything that can be offered in a consolidated kit form. Not because I don’t have the machining ability or experience to do something more involved… more that I’ve got a LOT to do on this project and seemingly not enough time to do it, so I’d rather not fuck with sourcing random parts for a few months. I need to get it done within the next 18 mo’s, for various reasons. That’s why I’ve been looking at the “pre-packaged” stuff… i.e. maxi drive…

EDIT: That said, if there are "cookbook instructions" for a toy conversion and easy parts sources, I'd be all about it!

Keith sells a "kit" for the Toyota install. He is a "one stop" parts source for everything you need.

The GBR or Keiths HD axle package is stronger, but, IMO, it's not a fix to the problem. Really, even the Toyota package is yet to be seen in these heavy ass trucks.... But, nevertheless, Bobby Longs CV's are pretty damn tough. And, if your just going to run 33's, I think you'll be fine with the Toyota convert.

The install is not "plug-and-play" but it's pretty easy if you have the tools. If you did the Cummings swap, you can do this axle mod.....

An easier swap would be to retain the stock Rover 3rd, and just add an ARB, opposed to adding the Toyota 3rd. It's really no savings in cost, but saves time. I'd say either way, the ring and pinion would break before the Longfield CV's would. If your lucky, the inner axle would bust first.

[QUOTE=ISUZUROVER]Bill; I take it you are referring to Tony's (RUFF) comments???

He said something along the lines of being able to deform a cro-mo longfield "beyond use" in one comp/stage. But I can't find the comment now. Let me know if you know where the thread is.

I don't recall where the thread was Ben, but on that thread I do recall you saying you would test a stock 2522 in one side and one of your Longfields in the other side to compare wear rates.
Bill.

I remember the thread, but I still can't find it.

However - the longfield cro-mo CVs have a lifetime warranty against breakage (i.e. if you can break it bobby will replace it for free) - so I don't think there should be any worries about using them, except for people with a constant 4x4 or a daily driver that may wear them out from on-road driving (which is not covered).

I intend to give mine hell when I finally get around to fitting them, to see how they hold up.

OK – I talked to Keith at Rover Tracks this afternoon. He seems like a nice and knowledgeable guy. He suggested two potential options:

- keep the rover 3.54 third and upgrade to his proprietary shafts with longfield CV’s. Minor boring of spindles required and replacement of bushings. No biggie. Roughly $1425, plus roughly 700 for a 24 spline ARB for the rover third.

- complete toy third conversion – replacement 30 spline axles with longfields, bore spindles and knuckles, need to source my own toy third from Inchworm or somebody. Roughly $1800, plus roughly 900 for a toy third w/ ARB. Includes core flange for drilling pattern, pipe cap for front, new HD clearanced track rod for pipe cap.

Keith’s recommendation was that even with a crawler case and the Cummins, that I could probably keep the rover diff if I was running 7.50’s. If I could find a Toy diff in a 3.54 or 3.73 (which is the right ratio for the tires I’m running) I would say go Toy conversion all the way. Problem being the lowest Toy ratio out there generally seems to be 4.10 (doh). I seem to remember that Jack Mac diffs can be spec’d down to 3.54, but I can’t seem to find that info again (maybe it was on GBR’s site now that I think about it). Anyone know how much a Jack Mack diff w/ an ARB goes for, or could I just get a 3.54 R&P from him?

IIRC, talking to Bill at GBR he wanted about $1400 for 24 spline hytuff maxi’s and one ton CV’s.. So I’m not seeing how the Toy conversion would ultimately be “less money” than just going with the GBR/maxi’s. It seems like it would be at least an extra 500 bones… which I guess isn’t that much. If I went Toy I’d be blowing some extra $ and committing to a 3.54 ratio, but since sticking with the rover third means I’ve only got 3.54 or 4.88 anyway, I guess I’m really only *gaining* in terms of future options.

What I really wish is that I could get this thing together, test drive it to see how I like the ratios and suspension for awhile BEFORE sinking buttloads into any one route, and *then* make my upgrades! Unfortunately when you are starting from scratch with no driveshafts, engine, tranny, etc… everything sort of depends on everything else! Shit, you guys know how it is. What a fawking PITA. :(

I’m going to PM Revor for some more details.

If I could find a Toy diff in a 3.54 or 3.73 (which is the right ratio for the tires I’m running) I would say go Toy conversion all the way. Problem being the lowest Toy ratio out there generally seems to be 4.10 (doh).

You know that 4:10 is a lower gear ratio than a 3:54, right?
Factory Toy ratios include but aren't limited to 3:90, 4:10, 4:30, 4:56 and 4:88. That covers what most people seem to need.

p.s. I've got a new style T100/Tundra diff in 3:90 if you're interested. It's the most common gear in that diff and finding a second should be easy. All the T100, Tundra and Sequioa trucks use them as well as the new Tacoma without lockers. They take the same 30-spline axle as all the other diffs.

Thanks for the offer Mercedes but I don't think a 3.9 would work for me.

I talked to Bill at GBR about his maxi shaft and upgraded AU 2522 option yesterday. He suggested that I go pull my shafts to see what I have in there – to make sure I have 10 spline inners and see what spline count I had on the CV star. I was surprised at how easy it is to strip out those axles – had the whole thing torn down in 20 minutes, and that’s having never done it before nor having any shop pubs. Verdict: 10 spline @ the diff, 32 spline at the star wheel, and 24 spline outers.

It was nice to just pull the thing apart (being new to rovers) just so I could get a hands on feel for what I’m talking about with all these options. i.e. yeah, there seems to be plenty of meat on the spindles to take off .020 and “oh, there’s that locator bushing that they’re talking about”. Now I can see that the Toy conversion is a pretty elegant option w/o too much in the way of mods.

Problem being for me that I’d like to stick at 3.54. Both Keith and Bill alluded to the fact that the 3.54 rover, while the weakest option, is still decently strong with an aftermarket carrier like an ARB… a hell of a lot stronger than the factory single pin. I asked about a hypoid toy being “2.5 to 3 times” stronger than a rover, as advertised by Jac Mac, and Bill mentioned that this was in comparison to the stock rover carrier… and that an aftermarket carrier likely increases the gearset strength by 100% due to the rigidity. Bill’s suggestion was that the hypoid design of the Toy, with the bigger pinion taken into account, was probably 50% stronger when equipped with a similar carrier. I guess the easiest way to figure good numbers would be by comparitive pinion size… which I remember seeing but I don’t have offhand.

Whatever… obviously the Toy is stronger. But both Keith and Bill suggested that I’m probably more than safe sticking with the rover third w/ARB. Question then becomes: which would be the better aftermarket axle setup? Rover Tracks shafts w/ longfields or GBR’s with upgraded AU 2522’s (23 spline stars and 300M cages)? It seems to me like it comes down to a question of intended use. My intention is to use this truck as a daily driver, “expedition” type rig, and general work truck (some trailering, hauling supplies, etc). Seems like the wear resistance of the harder 2522’s would be more appropriate then than the more ductile but wear prone longfields. Plus the 300M cages might offer a bit more fatigue resistance and absolute strength. Has anyone put enough road miles on a set of Longfields to know how many road miles you can get out of them? Also, if I was running Longs, how much to replace just the Longs and outers… and how long would it take to get a set out to timbucktwo? Would be nice to be able to get parts in any civilized country, rather than have one source.

One of my first big trips with this truck may be from Seattle up to AK, to give you an idea what I’m thinking. The truck might see slickrock here and there, but will probably see snow and fire roads to trailheads a lot more.

As an aside – check this out. I’m going to fuel the Cummins just a little for lets say 360 ftlbs. Multiply by 80:1 crawl ratio = 28800 ftlbs. Knock it down to 27000 for parasitic losses. Divide by 4 = 6750 ft lbs per wheel. What does this mean? If I somehow hooked up one tire and channeled less than half of the available torque (not infeasible) into one wheel, I could break aftermarket dana 60 parts! If I just put the pedal to the deck, even channeled equally through *all 4* wheels, that’s enough torque to break anything less than a dana 60 part… 44 aftermarket axles included. Yeah yeah… I know… obviously that’s why you crawl at near idle. I’m just saying no matter WHICH option I went with, I could break it easy if I wanted to drive like a moron.

Thanks for the offer Mercedes but I don't think a 3.9 would work for me.


There is a toy 3.54:1 as well. Only low-pinion though AFAIK, so you would either need a bent (salisbury style) track rod or the special casing from JacMac that allows you to fit a low pinion toy diff into a rover.

Precision stock the 3.54 R&Ps
http://www.precisiongear.com/toy8.htm

I asked about a hypoid toy being “2.5 to 3 times” stronger than a rover, as advertised by Jac Mac, and Bill mentioned that this was in comparison to the stock rover carrier… and that an aftermarket carrier likely increases the gearset strength by 100% due to the rigidity. Bill’s suggestion was that the hypoid design of the Toy, with the bigger pinion taken into account, was probably 50% stronger when equipped with a similar carrier. I guess the easiest way to figure good numbers would be by comparitive pinion size… which I remember seeing but I don’t have offhand.

Sorry but I think this is a bit doubtful. Let's compare apples to apples (or at least oranges to mandarines) - an early 80's series rover with a stock 4.7:1 ring and pinion (and ARB or MD carrier), and an early 80's toy 4.88:1 ring and pinion with an ARB carrier. I have personally seen both os these setups break, and I am pretty sure there is a lot more than 50% difference in the two. The rover setup is lucky to handle 33's with an easy right root, whereas people run 37's on the toy setup, usually without problems.

Now sure you can get GBR 4.75 rover diffs, which are stronger, but you can also get aftermarket toy R&Ps.

Why would you go with toy outers w/o upgrading the rover center? Wouldn’t that be bass ackwards?



Because some people don't have the resources (money or skills) to replace the Rover 3rd with the toy. It does cost more money than keeping whatever you have. I think for 90% of the people WHO KNOW HOW TO DRIVE this is the best option. With stock gears I haven't seen too many rover diffs break. Although they do happen from time to time.

So I’m not seeing how the Toy conversion would ultimately be “less money” than just going with the GBR/maxi’s.


The biggest most important detail you are forgetting to take into consideration here is that comparing Bills stuff to Keiths is not apples to apples in any way. While the price may seem to be the same, wait until you break something. The total cost of the GBR stuff will quickly skyrocket as you have to pay for the replacements. Total Cost of Ownership.

Also, since it appears you have 10-spline stuff you will likely have to convert to 24-spline to gain anything at all. Unless you already have a locker you will be buying a new one and getting it set up. Easily tops $1000 plus the compressor. That's if you keep your stock gears. At this point the complete Toy conversion starts to come into range financially. Also, consider you have 10-spline in the rear as well.

Essentially you'll need to convert both front and rear to 24-spline to gain anything. It'll cost a bit, but good axles do no matter what you drive, rover or not.

Also, contrary to DChapmans beliefs, the toy conversion has been thoroughly tested with rovers and 37" tires in the hardest stuff CO and Utah have to offer. Enough said!

comparing Bills stuff to Keiths is not apples to apples in any way. While the price may seem to be the same, wait until you break something. The total cost of the GBR stuff will quickly skyrocket as you have to pay for the replacements. Total Cost of Ownership.


Yeah… with either RT or GBR shafts I’d go 24 spline ARB front and rear. Pain in the ass of course being that once you commit to that… you got almost 2G’s sunk into carriers that will not let you upgrade to the 30 spline stuff. I guess I could always sell the stuff and recoup *some* of my losses if I ever wanted to upgrade to Toy. It just seems like for what I’ll be doing most, the rover center should hold up.

My de-lemon is what to do between Keith’s or Bill’s shite. Are you suggesting that Keith is just going to replace the Longfields if I break them? What if they just wear out and get real sloppy after 50K miles??? In that case yeah, that’s probably the way to go!

Is Bill secretly a dick and I just don’t know it? Seems like he gets no love around here. Both seem to be good products… just trying to figure which would be best for my application.

Also, contrary to DChapmans beliefs, the toy conversion has been thoroughly tested with rovers and 37" tires in the hardest stuff CO and Utah have to offer. Enough said!

Yeah, true. But you are a very skilled and very kind driver to your equipment (minus your sheetmetal). What little I saw of your driving that is. And, the MTR's measure barely 36in on a good day. Not saying they are not great, but I have yet to see proof they will live in a heavy ass truck.

My de-lemon is what to do between Keith’s or Bill’s shite. Are you suggesting that Keith is just going to replace the Longfields if I break them? What if they just wear out and get real sloppy after 50K miles??? In that case yeah, that’s probably the way to go!

Is Bill secretly a dick and I just don’t know it? Seems like he gets no love around here. Both seem to be good products… just trying to figure which would be best for my application.

Bill is not a dick, he is a good guy, but he will not warranty most things. Keith's "Longfield" CV's are obviously built and sold by Bobby Longfield as Keith is a reseller. Bobby gives an unconditional guarantee for his 4340 front axles and 300M CV's. Bobby will warranty breakage, period. Thus it costs Keith nothing short of shipping to honor the warranty. Keith is still relatively small time as he has a day job, thus this helps him stand behind the products and not lose money. Of course Keith couples his axles with the CV's, I am not sure what Keith's policy on axle breakage is? Maybe he will chime in and fill us in.

I have the distinction of being the only "known" rover in the US with both Bobby's CV's and axles. I know my front end is warrantied for life.

BTW, I get no compensation from Keith for all of this. I truly believe in the Toy conversion and have beat on my truck from time to time. Just usually don't have a big crowd to watch.

Bobby gives an unconditional guarantee for his 4340 front axles and 300M CV's. Bobby will warranty breakage, period.

So if the Longs wear out (but don't break, per say) after 50K because they don’t have the case hardness, they are not warranted… I just have to buy new ones?

Also… I noticed that 3.54 R&P at precision… that was the first place I checked. Although it is an 8”/200mm ring gear, it is listed as a different application than the “Toyota V-6” diff. I don’t know much about them but I think this might be a 4 cyl diff… different carrier bearings or something. Its not clear that this would fit in the conversion, and I know Keith didn’t know squat about it cause as far as he knows the lowest you can go is 4.11…

If this was a valid ratio, it would significantly change the equation for me.

I don't *think* you can get the 3.54 gear in a high Pinion diff. I think it's only avaliable for the low pinion toyota diffs...

If the low pinion is the Toyota “standard” 8”, then I guess you’re right DC. Still can’t figure out whether one would fit without actually having the parts in front of me. This is off some random site:

“ Toyota has provided 4 differential types in pickups and 4Runners -- the 8" standard, the 7.5", the 8" V6/Turbo, and a new one in the Tacoma and third-generation (96+) 4Runners.

The most common is the 8" standard. It is used in the rear axle on '79-95 (96?) 4WD trucks and 4Runners, and 3/4 and 1 ton 2WD pickups, and it is also used in the front axle on 79-85 (solid beam) pickups and 4Runners.

The 8" V6/Turbo axle is found in some turbo and V6 models, and is a little beefier. It is a 4-pinion design, whereas the regular 8" is a 2-pinion design. Many V6's had 2-pinion cases too. “

Crap Larry...
Chime in? Now I have to... Happy as a clam, lurking about watching what unfolded...
Here is the deal... As we know now, Greasy has the worst set up any Rover can have up front... We had hoped for 2522's but alas they are the 32 spline versions, with 10 spline inners.
What to do next? The easiest solution is to go with some 2522's (probably have some good used GKN's around here) for potential longer wear. leave the Rover center with a set of my 23/24 front axles.. Obviously put in a better Diff.
That said the CV is still the weakest part of the picture by a good bit..
I personally would do the Toy outer bits.. Simply because I like them and I'm thinking that they're not gonna wear out that fast (part time T case), especially the new version, add to that the amount of torque that little 4BT is going to be pumping through a 4:1 T Case, even a good 2522 is going to be a problem... Further down the road we might want to do a Toy diff... Now sell the third (for exagerated prices) by a toy center and all you are out is a new set of halftshafts...
We have to remember that this is a daily Driver/expedition truck with a part time T Case that will be spending it's life on 33" inch tires doing things that Normal (well okay a little more than that) 110 Expedition trucks do... Carnage? Nope, Billing? Nope The Rubicon, sure but not with 2522's..

Leave the Sals alone out back.. If the axles fail get 30 spline side gears for the diff from ARB and put in 30 spline 300m shafts...

Them's my thoughts..

I don't *think* you can get the 3.54 gear in a high Pinion diff. I think it's only avaliable for the low pinion toyota diffs...

Going to guess the same thing. Call Jim at www.inchwormgear.com. He would know for sure. He absolutely has the best prices and built mine and many other toy conversion diffs for the rover.

Yeah… I just looked at the truck and reworking that tie rod would be a bitch. Real tough to bend it enough to get it OVER the third, which would mean you’d have to bend it DOWN and drop it even *closer* to the ground, inviting more carnage. High pinion or nothing! Maybe I’ll call inchworm. Again all signs point to leave rover diff though.

Keith's "Longfield" CV's are obviously built and sold by Bobby Longfield as Keith is a reseller. Bobby gives an unconditional guarantee for his 4340 front axles and 300M CV's. Bobby will warranty breakage, period.
Is this at all dependent on what vehicle they're installed in ?! A stripped down Toy pick-up is one thing but I cant believe he would cover the warranty in a big Rover pig...

Is this at all dependent on what vehicle they're installed in ?! A stripped down Toy pick-up is one thing but I cant believe he would cover the warranty in a big Rover pig...

Everybody keeps saying this. While weight certainly can be a factor, torque is by far the biggest factor. A Toyota with 42s and a 120:1 crawl ratio is waaayyy harder on a CV than a rover with 37s and about 70:1 (worse case).

That being said, I believe Bobby stands behind this. Early on he posted a few things in this board about these CV's and rovers. That was at least a year ago though.

Well, I'm envious of this Toyota setup, but I'm gonna stick with the RT 2522's for now, and keep watchin'....

It's always something isn't it ... You send the CV to me I will make sure it gets warrantied whether I pay the nickel or Bobby does. Same with my Axles...
You break 1 24 spline you get a new one, break it again and we'll start talking 30 spline.. Break one of those we'll start talking 300M or 35 spline.. In any case I will always work to keep my customers happy.. Especially if it is within my control (products I have made) Like an AEU2522 I have found a good supplier after a LOT of hard research (right Daniel?) I stood behind my product but the manufacturer was the problem.. If you break: Axles = five years, go to thirty spline and get a huge discount, 2522's= about a year depending on what the application is... Longs=forever (broken not worn out)
Drive flanges= Lifetime, 35 spline axles=Lifetime. Point is I want you guys to have a good time and not stress about warranty crap.. All my customers have given a lot to me, I feel I should give back..
Touching huh? Simple fact it that my confidence in my selection of products and my vendors allows me to allow for some (disclaimer here) "semi" worry free wheeling..
That said, if you call me and tell me you broke both 24 spline axles in the welded rear of your 89 RR with a 650 HP SBC with an underdrive on 38's, while just "pulling out of the driveway" I will personally come to your location and beat you with said shafts!!!! Now THAT is customer service!

I will say Keith has stood behind his products 100% for me.

My point is, broke is broke. For me, and others around me, the 2522's are not doing it. They just don't give me that warm and fuzzy feeling anymore. The "stronger" set-up is a 30-spline Longfield. But, people here are breaking them too. So, what do you do?? Do you go ahead and spend the extra 1400+ and upgrade to a longfield set-up, or do you install some New Holland axles like Randy Torrbit? You got to draw the like somewhere, but I'm tired of being broke.....

... Longs=forever (broken not worn out)
Drive flanges= Lifetime, 35 spline axles=Lifetime. ..!

So Keith would you recomend Longs for a sals front?

Pete

But, people here are breaking them too. .....

Do you mean here as in Pirate or in VA?

Pete

"So Keith would you recomend Longs for a sals front?"

Yessir Pete... Without a doubt... it's too easy to go 30 spline all the way out and be stronger than a 60.. plus have CV's instead of U joints!

Now Daniel remember the use Greasy's truck is going to get... i also think about the abuse my Longs get in the front of my fat Disco... Quite frequently I'll drive around town fully locked, squawking and chirping around corners, I want it to break! The assemblies have been out of the car for inspection and nothing seems to be out of the ordinary..
Hammering and bouncing on the loading docks at work.. It's all good.. For an extreme recreational wheeler these are good shiznit! The next step with CV is the D60 CV... Havign had one in my sweaty hand gave me lots of ideas but at 2300 per set!?! Plus a kingpin front 60 and the rest of the goodies... $10K
For me the BL CV will work for a long time I'm thinking..

New Holland/Ford stuff is kinda expensive for the DD crowd methinks... As cool as they are..

I see where you are going, Keith. But, I'm on 33's and a damn POS TT. Jeff is on 34's and an ARB..... By all means, we're not Big Dogs. In each case of the breakage, it is what I call mild wheelin. In two cases, it was shit I could do with open diffs. Whether it was quality control, a bad batch of heat treating, experimental equipment, etc... I've just lost interest in the 2522's; no matter who's making them. Also, after seeing two 30-spline LF's break, I'm skeptical as to if they will hold, either.

Just my .02

:crybaby2: :crybaby2:

if you're that concerned about breakage then pick up a pair of rockwells, source the chromo shafts and whatever else and leave the rest of us alone ... mmmK?

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:


I see where you are going, Keith. But, I'm on 33's and a damn POS TT. Jeff is on 34's and an ARB..... By all means, we're not Big Dogs. In each case of the breakage, it is what I call mild wheelin. In two cases, it was shit I could do with open diffs. Whether it was quality control, a bad batch of heat treating, experimental equipment, etc... I've just lost interest in the 2522's; no matter who's making them. Also, after seeing two 30-spline LF's break, I'm skeptical as to if they will hold, either.

Just my .02

Also… I noticed that 3.54 R&P at precision… that was the first place I checked. Although it is an 8”/200mm ring gear, it is listed as a different application than the “Toyota V-6” diff. I don’t know much about them but I think this might be a 4 cyl diff… different carrier bearings or something. Its not clear that this would fit in the conversion, and I know Keith didn’t know squat about it cause as far as he knows the lowest you can go is 4.11…

If this was a valid ratio, it would significantly change the equation for me.

Isn't the only difference between the 4cyl and V6 diff that one is 2-pin and one is 4-pin? - or is there a ring gear thickness difference too?

Either way, you there are people in OZ running the 3.54 toy R&Ps in rovers. We only got the 4cyl centre AFAIK, but I don't think there is much of a strength difference (both are way stronger than rover diffs), and if you have a non-stock carrier then there is no difference.

If you want to run the 3.54 low pinion toy R&P in a coil-sprung rover (with the stock tie-rod), you will need a centre-casing from here - already made to bolt straight to a rover housing. They sell the casing only for about $500.
http://www.mcnamaradiffs.com.au/hypoid1.html
Notice they list 3.42 and 3.54 along with all the normal toy ratios. (macnamara also make a toy 4.7 to match the rover 4.7)

:crybaby2: :crybaby2:

if you're that concerned about breakage then pick up a pair of rockwells, source the chromo shafts and whatever else

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Yeah, that would be a nice set-up :shaking:

The 6 Cyl diff has more gusseting on the case and bigger carrier bearings as well ... Big enough that with some mild machine work you can fit 1.5" axles in it...
Remember this though, the toy low pinion has a higher hypoid offset than a 60 so the pinion shaft and surrounding iron is lower than ever a front Sals, unfortunatly not low enough to make a steering arm go up and over it.. I believe that for the low pinion the gears are the same..

There are guys with big fat heavy Toys that run the Small longs, FJ55's and the like, the weight would be comparable to that of a 110..

"So Keith would you recomend Longs for a sals front?"

Yessir Pete... Without a doubt... it's too easy to go 30 spline all the way out and be stronger than a 60.. plus have CV's instead of U joints!
..

ohh your killing me. You know thats going to cut even more into my gun fun funds :flipoff2:

BTW nice new avatar.

".. plus have CV's instead of U joints! ..

Oh sure, now he tells me ;)

"30 spline all the way out and be stronger than a 60.. plus have CV's instead of U joints!

Are the new Long CVs stronger than a 60 CTM?

Are the new Long CVs stronger than a 60 CTM?

No. They are stronger than stock 30-spliners. I think the new $$$$ 60 CTMs are really expensive and uber-strong.

So in a part-time Sal, that's the way to go, no?

I once talked to Jack when I was building my axles and he said that running his joints with the seals and grease fittings removed in an oil-filled enclosed knuckle would be perfect.

So in a part-time Sal, that's the way to go, no?

I once talked to Jack when I was building my axles and he said that running his joints with the seals and grease fittings removed in an oil-filled enclosed knuckle would be perfect.

Thats what I am thinking.

Then again its not like I am breaking my 35 year old 10 spline shit now. :D

I can tell you that a 60-size yoke and u-joint won't fit in a standard Series knuckle. Are the Salisbury knuckles any bigger in there? If so, that would be the way to go.

A 44-size yoke and u-joint will fit into a Series knuckle...that much I do know.

Problem being for me that I’d like to stick at 3.54. (...)both Keith and Bill suggested that I’m probably more than safe sticking with the rover third w/ARB. Question then becomes: which would be the better aftermarket axle setup? Rover Tracks shafts w/ longfields or GBR’s with upgraded AU 2522’s (23 spline stars and 300M cages)? It seems to me like it comes down to a question of intended use. My intention is to use this truck as a daily driver, “expedition” type rig, and general work truck (...)Would be nice to be able to get parts in any civilized country, rather than have one source.
(...)

Hi there,
FWIW it looks like we share the same purposes.
I'm going to fit Longs with the axles I got from Keith (I'm a distributor!whoa!)
and mate them to my ARB.
Mine is a DD and far from being hardcore on 32"/33" tyres so far,
I only plan to enter some events/winch challenge in Europe when ready :rolleyes: and the UK scene is really interesting.

This I'd love to:
http://www.transilvania-trophy.com/

As to getting parts in any country,I got the stuff from K. in a week (excluding a bit of a slowdown at the custom).

As part of the job I find myself to sell Sc*rpi*n stuff also,
well,the last order is stuck since February IIRC.

I could break it easy if I wanted to drive like a moron

There are enough morons out there.
Don't drive like they do.
:D

I can tell you that a 60-size yoke and u-joint won't fit in a standard Series knuckle. Are the Salisbury knuckles any bigger in there? If so, that would be the way to go.

A 44-size yoke and u-joint will fit into a Series knuckle...that much I do know.

I mis-understood. Thought you were refering to running the long cv's in an oil bath.

Are the new Long CVs stronger than a 60 CTM?
having wheeled a rover (never broke, stock still) a toy, bot ifs, toy sas, d44 sas, and now i have a 60 front you need to actually see the size of a 60 yoke and the u-joint. it will remove the debate about the longfields. the 60 is HUGE. and i realize that bobby's chart compares the strength to a stock d60, but the new even stock spicer long life 60 u joints are holding up to cromo 60 shafts, so a ctm is light years beyond the toy cv.

that being said, what about the HUGE glaring issue that only has been brought up a few times in this monster thread........

WHAT ABOUT THE CHINTSY LITTLE ROVER FRONT BRAKES????:cool2:

i would be willing to do the toy swap if i could do something about the brakes. even put on 1/2 ton chevy stuff at least. rover uses go-kart rotors. and they are twice the price for replacements.

rover uses go-kart rotors.


Rotors? What's a rotor???

My 88 is on four drums and that's just fine with me.

put D90 rotors, and clipers on.. Then do a hydroboost.. Remeber what the car is ... It's a DD not a Truggy...
I'd love a 60 but only with CV's UJ's bite..
CTM 44 joint... Hmmm still a U joint,, still feels like a flat tire.. Not suitable for an AWD car..

...

WHAT ABOUT THE CHINTSY LITTLE ROVER FRONT BRAKES????:cool2:

i would be willing to do the toy swap if i could do something about the brakes. even put on 1/2 ton chevy stuff at least. rover uses go-kart rotors. and they are twice the price for replacements.

WTF? I cannot believe that you guys are complaining about the effectiveness of Rover disc brakes. For most of us Series Rover owners they are the stuff wet dreams are made of. and everywhere except the USA it seems, parts ore cheap and readily available.
Bill.

I had a heavy-ass '91 Rangie that I sold a year ago with stock anti-lock Rover brakes....I thought it stopped fine.

ditto - my '91 with the ABS system works awesome on 33's. the rangie rotors are vented units up front with 4-pot calipers. we're going wheelin' not oval track racing :rolleyes: I held off converting mine over to manual because I thought the ABS system was better (w/o the ABS computer or any of the sensors working :laughing:). i'm glad I did - i think it works great, and has more pedal than any car I've driven.

maybe if you're trying to tow too much you'd complain about the brakes?


I had a heavy-ass '91 Rangie that I sold a year ago with stock anti-lock Rover brakes....I thought it stopped fine.

No problems here with my go-kart rotors. I like 'em. :)

So.....RoverTym Steve has been running CV Unlimited axles w/ 4.7's , TR beadlocks and 35-12.5 BFG MT's with no breakage yet ( and he's not exactly easy on 'em) ........anyone else run these or know anything ??

I had a heavy-ass '91 Rangie that I sold a year ago with stock anti-lock Rover brakes....I thought it stopped fine.

My '90 RRC stops fine as well. Surely their talking about discos or D's?

So.....RoverTym Steve has been running CV Unlimited axles w/ 4.7's , TR beadlocks and 35-12.5 BFG MT's with no breakage yet ( and he's not exactly easy on 'em) ........anyone else run these or know anything ??

The CVU stuff holds up pretty well. Sometimes they go together pretty hard . Some sets you have to work for a while as the splines don't want to fit. Other than that there is the whole 27 spline thing that may or may not be an issue. If they were to stop making them you'd be in a tough spot for replacement, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. I've seen them run on a classic with 37's.

My '90 RRC stops fine as well. Surely their talking about discos or D's?
yes i am talking about the disco.
you guys have to be kidding me.:confused: my rover can barely get out of its own way. these are the worst brakes i have ever had, except my old vw type III fast back, that was possibly worse.
yes i want my disco to stop like my 3000# buggy with 1 ton rotors.
i guess no one is interested in carrying on the improvements, we just want to stop with the toy conversion.:flipoff2:

even my old toyota drums worked better.

having wheeled a rover (never broke, stock still) a toy, bot ifs, toy sas, d44 sas, and now i have a 60 front you need to actually see the size of a 60 yoke and the u-joint. it will remove the debate about the longfields. the 60 is HUGE. and i realize that bobby's chart compares the strength to a stock d60, but the new even stock spicer long life 60 u joints are holding up to cromo 60 shafts, so a ctm is light years beyond the toy cv.

that being said, what about the HUGE glaring issue that only has been brought up a few times in this monster thread........

WHAT ABOUT THE CHINTSY LITTLE ROVER FRONT BRAKES????:cool2:

i would be willing to do the toy swap if i could do something about the brakes. even put on 1/2 ton chevy stuff at least. rover uses go-kart rotors. and they are twice the price for replacements.

Hey Aaron.

Where did you hear that about the New Spicers? I just bought some, and I need the u-joint to be the weak spot on my front end, I don't love this!

Aaron

D90 Rotors+D90 Calipers+ 87 Astro van Hydro boost = Broken nose on the windshield..

I too do not understand WTF them boy where thinking when they put these puny brakes on the heaviest pig they sold at the time.. Well and the decent ones on the lightest..

Just the 90 rotors and Calipers make a huge diff.. The HB makes it almost scary...

I love easy steering I love exceptional brakes... I won't stop pursuing this till it's right!!!

Hey Aaron.

Where did you hear that about the New Spicers? I just bought some, and I need the u-joint to be the weak spot on my front end, I don't love this!
one of my friends has alloy usa shafts in his 60 and just runs the stock spicers. they are the new long life version, but still the off the shelf napa stuff. they are still the weak link in the setup, after you have torn the bead out of the beadlocks:D

if you are running the stock 30 spline stub shafts, they WILL explode before the u joint and wipe out your spindles, wheel bearings and maybe hurt the hubs. that is why the need for the 35 spl outers, even the stock 35 spline outer chevys are better.

and even if you grenade a u joint and it is your "fuse" it still has a good 89% chance of killing the ears on your shafts.

i vote no fuse, and wheel appropriately.

i built my 60 to be able to flail. i don't break when i am spinning tires, i break when something binds up.

Aaron

D90 Rotors+D90 Calipers+ 87 Astro van Hydro boost = Broken nose on the windshield..

I too do not understand WTF them boy where thinking when they put these puny brakes on the heaviest pig they sold at the time.. Well and the decent ones on the lightest..

Just the 90 rotors and Calipers make a huge diff.. The HB makes it almost scary...

I love easy steering I love exceptional brakes... I won't stop pursuing this till it's right!!!
keith,
where can i find said d 90 parts?
and are they a fortune?

i have a one ton hydro boost unit from a chevy truck, too big?:smokin:

one of my friends has alloy usa shafts in his 60 and just runs the stock spicers. they are the new long life version, but still the off the shelf napa stuff. they are still the weak link in the setup, after you have torn the bead out of the beadlocks:D

if you are running the stock 30 spline stub shafts, they WILL explode before the u joint and wipe out your spindles, wheel bearings and maybe hurt the hubs. that is why the need for the 35 spl outers, even the stock 35 spline outer chevys are better.

and even if you grenade a u joint and it is your "fuse" it still has a good 89% chance of killing the ears on your shafts.

i vote no fuse, and wheel appropriately.

i built my 60 to be able to flail. i don't break when i am spinning tires, i break when something binds up.

I have 35 spline 4340 outers and drive flanges. I have 4340 inners too. The problem is they neck down to the 31 spline ford 9in center section and I don't have the coin right now, or maybe ever :), to upgrade the center to 35 spline. So, I want a weaker link out near the ends that will go first. The ears will hold up as long as you stop immediately after it pops. Sometimes hard to do! As long as the spicer is still the fuse, I am good.

I have 35 spline 4340 outers and drive flanges. I have 4340 inners too. The problem is they neck down to the 31 spline ford 9in center section and I don't have the coin right now, or maybe ever :), to upgrade the center to 35 spline. So, I want a weaker link out near the ends that will go first. The ears will hold up as long as you stop immediately after it pops. Sometimes hard to do! As long as the spicer is still the fuse, I am good.
man i am no expert, but i would wager that the u joint will long out last the rest, however, the nine center is pretty strong. so i suppose you will be ok. but unless you are running 250+ hp on 7500#s of truck with 40" tires, i doubt very seriously that that u joint is going anywhere for a very long time.

if someone wants to send me a front disco knuckle (d1), spindle, and hub, i will find a way to put chevy half ton calipers and rotors on it. you can buy the calipers for $35 loaded at your local vato zone, and the rotors for another$20.
i am serious about this. if some one wants to donate said parts i will make it happen. unless it is totally impossible, but i don't see why not.

Regarding brake, my 88 weighs 5000lbs has four wheel drums and I can lock up all 4 wheels at 45mph.
I have not tried any faster cuss 45mph scared the piss out of me.
I am using 109 rear drums and cylinders at all four corners and a GMC hydroboost master. So I am not stock.
But if you are having problems with the stock discs I would imagine there is a problem with your master that needs correcting.

1) the Defender 110" or 90" front callipers make a great improvement over the standard items in a RRC (without ABS) or a D1. They give 25% more clamping power.
I think the rotors of the RRC/Disco can stay. At least I put said callipers onto the front axle of my RRC and it would have been plug and play - if there hadn´t been minor issues with the brake line routing.


2) If the toy conversion involves reaming out the stub axle that implies that theres very little space between the stub and the half-shaft. Has anyone seen problems in this area ? (in conditions like, say, excessive (because lack of care) wheel bearing play)

D90 D110 Calipers are a direct bolt one with not much extra plumbing either, the disco brake lines come from the front, defender from the rear.. The hard line from the Disco Caliper can be used to work out the differences.
You can get the calipers from Rovers North.. Rovers down south any rover parts house or even Napa... All NAS spec 90's had the big caliper for Vented rotors.. That said you don'y need the vented rotors for the slow stuff but heck they're only like $40 per each, plus the only 110 in this country to come with non vented rotors was a 93 NAS 110... You may have to find Cores for some out fits, call me I have some... Out right purchase throught RN is under $500 last I checked..
I just bought 4 core 90 calipers for $40 each... They're out there..

It's the Hydaboost that really makes it happen though... Ant one of them will work.. My sources told me that the 91 Chevy Astro Van booster worked the best and I liked the fit..

As for the boring of the spindle, we take out abou .010" on the diameter.Just enough to get the 30 spine end through. In some cases the "close tolerances" of the Rover Stub axles has given us the inside diameter we needed without boring!!!??? I have measured the ID of these stubs running from 1.26" to 1.285" The CV is waisted to prevent contact with the stub
My 110 front stubs have been bored to 1.285 for about 3 years now and I have not had any problems with the spindles bending.. It's actually pretty common for some of the custom builders to do such a thing, finish is important..

keith, i just got a toyota front for a couple of hundred. it has been in a fire, so all of the seals are bad, but should be easy to fix. then the key will be to come up with some type of adapter to make the axle longer and take the five bolt pattern. also i am going to see if i can adapt the toy hubs to accept gm 1/2 ton rotors and calipers.

I built a Hybrid Landy/Rangey for a friend. This truck has a 4.6 V8, weighs
4500 lbs empty, sits on 38 inch TSL's and is fitted with early Rangey non ventilated disc brakes and booster m/cyl assembly. My friend is an office type who is not into exercise and likes everything easy,His daily driver was a supercharged XKR Jaguar which obviousely has brilliant brakes,but he is more than capable of hauling his Landy to a stop and keeping it under control on our mountain roads and never complains about poor brakes. All you guys that whinge about brakes must have something seriousely wrong with your systems.
Bill.

I built a Hybrid Landy/Rangey for a friend. This truck has a 4.6 V8, weighs
4500 lbs empty, sits on 38 inch TSL's and is fitted with early Rangey non ventilated disc brakes and booster m/cyl assembly. My friend is an office type who is not into exercise and likes everything easy,His daily driver was a supercharged XKR Jaguar which obviousely has brilliant brakes,but he is more than capable of hauling his Landy to a stop and keeping it under control on our mountain roads and never complains about poor brakes. All you guys that whinge about brakes must have something seriousely wrong with your systems.
Bill.
the key word is RANGIE. i have a us spec disco and its brakes S.....U.....C....K.

the disco brakes are a much lesser brake than even a rangie, and a disco weighs in at over 1500 lbs more than the truck you mentioned.

not true, he said non-vented rangie brakes. they should be the same thing as the later disco brakes.

if you are so concerned about your braking issues why dont you upgrade to vented RR stuff? there is no need to re-invent the entire rotating assembly and run cheap ass chevy brakes.

Jaysus....I can't beleive I just read that whole fawkin' thing. I need a drink.

24 spline TT with GBR reverse cut 4:10 gears, Rovertraks 24/30 spline axles, Longfeild CV's, 35's. Seems to me like a fairly low budget, pretty goddam rugged solution. And it is rugged. Plus Keith will get you straight on shit even if you are a pain in the arse.

Don't know what to say about the brakes.

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

the disco CALIPERS suck bad too. they are dual piston little junkers. the d90 has a nice 4 piston caliper. so to "upgrade" to rangie calipers and rotors, i am looking at at least $300 or more for the parts. that is more than i have into my whole dana 60 front end in my buggie. you guys have to be kidding me. and my info is coming from kieth.
this is getting frustrating. i understand if you want to stick with the wine and cheese crowd and leave the 33" tires on, but i have bigger plans. and maybe some of you guys need to come out to arizona and see what actual rocks look like..
i am not trying to be a jerk, but the "i need a drink" comments are frustrating. you don't need to talk down to me just because i want to do a non van tassel approved rover mod.:shaking:

not true, he said non-vented rangie brakes. they should be the same thing as the later disco brakes.

if you are so concerned about your braking issues why dont you upgrade to vented RR stuff? there is no need to re-invent the entire rotating assembly and run cheap ass chevy brakes.
nothing is truly the same.
these are british cars we are talking about right?

man i am no expert, but i would wager that the u joint will long out last the rest, however, the nine center is pretty strong. so i suppose you will be ok. but unless you are running 250+ hp on 7500#s of truck with 40" tires, i doubt very seriously that that u joint is going anywhere for a very long time.

The 9in r+p is stronger than the dana 60. The problem is the weak(er) 31 spline shafts. As long as the u joint lets loose before the axles I am happy. I am on 140hp, 39.5s and about 3200 pounds, so I should be okay! Thanks :grinpimp:

The 9in r+p is stronger than the dana 60. The problem is the weak(er) 31 spline shafts. As long as the u joint lets loose before the axles I am happy. I am on 140hp, 39.5s and about 3200 pounds, so I should be okay! Thanks :grinpimp:

.I don't want to come over as a nit picker and know all but a 9'' Ford with a few mods and aftermarket support(nodular iron housing, solid pinion bearing spacer, Detroit locker or other better quality carrier) makes a fine rear diff but on a stock one the pressure angle of the ring gear teeth means that the weak grey iron pinion housing is under enormous stress when the ring and pinion is driving on the coast side as in front application. Actually a friend of mine blew a 9 inch rear diff in a Landyto smitherines just by shifting from 4 th gear into 2nd at 30 mph. The mangled pinion was laying on the ground still attached to the tailshaft (driveshaft) with what was left of the pinion bearing housing. and inside the diff housing was a pile of broken ring gear teeth.
Bill.

.I don't want to come over as a nit picker and know all but a 9'' Ford with a few mods and aftermarket support(nodular iron housing, solid pinion bearing spacer, Detroit locker or other better quality carrier) makes a fine rear diff but on a stock one the pressure angle of the ring gear teeth means that the weak grey iron pinion housing is under enormous stress when the ring and pinion is driving on the coast side as in front application. Actually a friend of mine blew a 9 inch rear diff in a Landyto smitherines just by shifting from 4 th gear into 2nd at 30 mph. The mangled pinion was laying on the ground still attached to the tailshaft (driveshaft) with what was left of the pinion bearing housing. and inside the diff housing was a pile of broken ring gear teeth.
Bill.
this is a hotly debated subject.
pro for the nine is the pinion support bearing.
but a d 60 is still on the coast side of the gear in the front. so that is a wash.
only the hp s 60 has a reverse cut gear set so when in the front it is stronger than a chevy or dodge. however when we start blowing up ring gears i will give you a call.:flipoff2:

.I don't want to come over as a nit picker and know all but a 9'' Ford with a few mods and aftermarket support(nodular iron housing, solid pinion bearing spacer, Detroit locker or other better quality carrier) makes a fine rear diff but on a stock one the pressure angle of the ring gear teeth means that the weak grey iron pinion housing is under enormous stress when the ring and pinion is driving on the coast side as in front application. Actually a friend of mine blew a 9 inch rear diff in a Landyto smitherines just by shifting from 4 th gear into 2nd at 30 mph. The mangled pinion was laying on the ground still attached to the tailshaft (driveshaft) with what was left of the pinion bearing housing. and inside the diff housing was a pile of broken ring gear teeth.
Bill.


Ditto to what Aaron said. It's been debated to high heaven. But, 10to1 says that your friend had a terrible install job on his 9. I've seen a Dana 70 let loose before a Dana 30. What does than mean? Nothing.

Ditto to what Aaron said. It's been debated to high heaven. But, 10to1 says that your friend had a terrible install job on his 9. I've seen a Dana 70 let loose before a Dana 30. What does than mean? Nothing.
with my own two eyes i saw the axle tube tear out of a 14 bolt, ripped the casting right off of the rosettes. this was in a toyota truggy with just a 4 cyl motor and dual tcases.

(not really important, but to put it right, Aaron : All the coil sprung Rover have 4piston callipers front and 2piston callipers rear at each wheel. There are two diameters for the pistons: D110 and D90 have the larger diameter at the front and the smaller diameter rear. The D130 and D110 have the larger diameter at the rear as well. ALL the other cars have the smaller diameter piston all round (no matter whether Disco or RRC)).(not talking abou Freelander, DiscoII,P38 and newer and 2WD).

Ditto to what Aaron said. It's been debated to high heaven. But, 10to1 says that your friend had a terrible install job on his 9. I've seen a Dana 70 let loose before a Dana 30. What does than mean? Nothing.

I rarely make flippant comments on these forums, and because there is so much missinformation floating around ,my policy is to never post unless I know a thing or two about the subject matter relevant to the particular thread.
It just happens to be that my friend is a professional diff installer who works for Jack McNamara Diff specialiat in Melbourne. That doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't do a botched job on his own diff, but I doubt it.
Take a good look at the ring gear on a nine inch and you will see that the angle on the coast side of the teeth is relatively shallow. this gives a very high degree of side thrust when driven in reverse or when driven forward as in front application. Or when loading is suddenly reversed from drive to coast as in the afore mentioned down change and the stock shitty grey iron housing wasn,t designed to cope with those loadings.Why do you suppose that expensive nodular iron housings are available for performance applications? for Most other differentials do not have as severe a bias in pressure angles between drive and coast sides and therefore are less affected by their location front or rear.
Bill.

(not really important, but to put it right, Aaron : All the coil sprung Rover have 4piston callipers front and 2piston callipers rear at each wheel. There are two diameters for the pistons: D110 and D90 have the larger diameter at the front and the smaller diameter rear. The D130 and D110 have the larger diameter at the rear as well. ALL the other cars have the smaller diameter piston all round (no matter whether Disco or RRC)).(not talking abou Freelander, DiscoII,P38 and newer and 2WD).
oh yeah, i see that you are indeed correct.
the brakes still suck.:flipoff2:

I rarely make flippant comments on these forums, and because there is so much missinformation floating around ,my policy is to never post unless I know a thing or two about the subject matter relevant to the particular thread.
It just happens to be that my friend is a professional diff installer who works for Jack McNamara Diff specialiat in Melbourne. That doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't do a botched job on his own diff, but I doubt it.
Take a good look at the ring gear on a nine inch and you will see that the angle on the coast side of the teeth is relatively shallow. this gives a very high degree of side thrust when driven in reverse or when driven forward as in front application. Or when loading is suddenly reversed from drive to coast as in the afore mentioned down change and the stock shitty grey iron housing wasn,t designed to cope with those loadings.Why do you suppose that expensive nodular iron housings are available for performance applications? for Most other differentials do not have as severe a bias in pressure angles between drive and coast sides and therefore are less affected by their location front or rear.
Bill.

Okay, I get it. So what's your point? You saw one crap out. Sweet. I don't have a stock housing and I don't have a stock carrier. I have no idea what you are trying to get me to do. You want me to pull my 9-60 and put in a 60? If you think there so weak, go argue with all the comp guys running Hi-9's and 9's in the front. Try to convince them.

This circumstancial evidence attitude gets annoying. I have seen rockwells break, so are they weak? Mogs, seen those go, made of straw right? I guess I'll just have to wait untill I break mine, and then tell everyone I saw one break and 9's suck hard :flipoff2:

Okay, I get it. So what's your point? You saw one crap out. Sweet. I don't have a stock housing and I don't have a stock carrier. I have no idea what you are trying to get me to do. You want me to pull my 9-60 and put in a 60? If you think there so weak, go argue with all the comp guys running Hi-9's and 9's in the front. Try to convince them.

This circumstancial evidence attitude gets annoying. I have seen rockwells break, so are they weak? Mogs, seen those go, made of straw right?

Buckon37,s.If you are not prepared to listen to logical argument then everything you read on Pirate and any other forums could be considered circumstantial evidence, but I couldn,t care less about point scoring with you, and I am not trying to get you to do anything, but don,t come on here trying to tell people that 9 inch diffs are the best invention since the wheel either.You don't have a stock housing or carrier, good for you. I already mentioned a 9'' can be made into a fair diff with aftermarket parts . In my own 2 year stint with Jack Mac differentials I saw more than my fair share of Ford 9 inch carnage and generally ,trucks in Australia are nowhere near as high powered or have as large tyres as the US,(even 35,s are not legal on most 4x4,s.)
IMHO unless longfield cv,s or Dana60 UJ,s are used Then a D60 or 9 inch, built or otherwise in the front is a waste of time and money in a Rover period. With Longfields then a Toyota 3rd becomes practicable. Stock or strengthened Birfields, Then a built Rover diff is good enough.
Bill.

Buckon37,s.If you are not prepared to listen to logical argument then everything you read on Pirate and any other forums could be considered circumstantial evidence, but I couldn,t care less about point scoring with you, and I am not trying to get you to do anything, but don,t come on here trying to tell people that 9 inch diffs are the best invention since the wheel either.You don't have a stock housing or carrier, good for you. I already mentioned a 9'' can be made into a fair diff with aftermarket parts . In my own 2 year stint with Jack Mac differentials I saw more than my fair share of Ford 9 inch carnage and generally ,trucks in Australia are nowhere near as high powered or have as large tyres as the US,(even 35,s are not legal on most 4x4,s.)
IMHO unless longfield cv,s or Dana60 UJ,s are used Then a D60 or 9 inch, built or otherwise in the front is a waste of time and money in a Rover period. With Longfields then a Toyota 3rd becomes practicable. Stock or strengthened Birfields, Then a built Rover diff is good enough.
Bill.

Dude, seriously, what are you talking about? I said 9in are stronger than Dana 60's, thats all. And, though it's argued a lot, most people here agree with that statement. Search for the 9in-60 poll. You are getting all butt-hurt because I don't think 9's are weak. Well, most people don't think thier weak, so are you going to go argue with all of them? If your not trying to score points, why keep posting? I listen to all logical arguements, if you want me to listen to yours, make one.

All joking aside, if you don't like the 9 in the front, don't run it. But I'll be keeping mine. Thanks for playing.

Dude,

All joking aside, if you don't like the 9 in the front, don't run it. But I'll be keeping mine. Thanks for playing.

Thats ok but I am still in the game. No I won,t run a 9 inch front or rear, and I appreciate your permission not to do so. Same with 60,s, been there done that. They may be common enough in the USA to be popular but they are overweight, ground clearance sucks, and I have seen too many toasted pinion bearings when they have been tilted for SWB rigs. Over here a better , stronger, easier to maintain and more sensible option when considering complete axle swaps is either Toyota Landcruiser or Nissan Patrol assemblies.
All that aside, this thread was started by CPTYARDCRHO, who asked for opinions on the various options he listed. I may be wrong but If I read his thoughts correctly, none of the above really applies, so we are looking at ''the most bang for the buck''. in which case the options I listed at the bottom of my previous post bears consideration.
Bill.

Aaron, I didn't mean to offend you by needin' "a drink". I'd just been away from the computer for a couple of days and that was a shitpile of reading, and damn good stuff. I still voted for the Toyota swap, but then again I'm wheelin' east coast (USA) style and have no idea what you need to have fun in Arizona on the "real" rocks (no offense intended)

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

Aaron, I didn't mean to offend you by needin' "a drink". I'd just been away from the computer for a couple of days and that was a shitpile of reading, and damn good stuff. I still voted for the Toyota swap, but then again I'm wheelin' east coast (USA) style and have no idea what you need to have fun in Arizona on the "real" rocks (no offense intended)

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering
thank you matt.
sorry for my misunderstanding. and what i mean to say is we either seem to have dirt roads or 5 plus trails those seem to be the basic options. stuff you can wheel with a geo metro or stuff you need a buggy for.
we have the big rocks curtesy of the earth and the cheese ball "trails" courtesy of the local jeep idiots. land use out here is somewhat sketchy, so in the tucson area new trails are not to be found or made. in fact the desert in the tucson area is fast being gobbled up in urban sprawl. (not ok to wheel it, but it is ok to build 1000 ugly ass houses that all look the same)

having said all of that, i just bought a cheap full toy mini truck front end for a couple of hundred bucks. going to modify it to take gm calipers and rotors and some HUGE wheel spacers so i can run on the very outside wheel bearing. but at least then i will actually have brakes.

Thats ok but I am still in the game. No I won,t run a 9 inch front or rear, and I appreciate your permission not to do so. Same with 60,s, been there done that. They may be common enough in the USA to be popular but they are overweight, ground clearance sucks, and I have seen too many toasted pinion bearings when they have been tilted for SWB rigs. Over here a better , stronger, easier to maintain and more sensible option when considering complete axle swaps is either Toyota Landcruiser or Nissan Patrol assemblies.
All that aside, this thread was started by CPTYARDCRHO, who asked for opinions on the various options he listed. I may be wrong but If I read his thoughts correctly, none of the above really applies, so we are looking at ''the most bang for the buck''. in which case the options I listed at the bottom of my previous post bears consideration.
Bill.

Thats cool. To each his own. So, in your opinion D-60s and 9in are both weak and the Landcruiser and Patrol diffs are way stronger. Well, I can't argue with that! :eek: :flipoff2:

having said all of that, i just bought a cheap full toy mini truck front end for a couple of hundred bucks. going to modify it to take gm calipers and rotors and some HUGE wheel spacers so i can run on the very outside wheel bearing. but at least then i will actually have brakes.

I am often very critical of Australia,s vehicle modification restrictions, but when I read of some of the shit that goes on in the US I think our legislaters have a point. Some people shouldn,t be allowed anywhere near a set of tools and a motor vehicle.You are a hazard to yourself and everybody else on the road.
I wonder if you have any real concept of vehicle mechanics? Running on the outside wheel bearing is definately to be discouraged. The extra leverage will place the spindle under far more stress than it was designed to handle, If it didn,t break off completely off road, you could stress it to the point of cracking whereby it could shear off while you are barreling along the freeway at 60 mph and spear you and your POS into a station wagon full of children.
Bill.

Absolutely right Bill. I don't think that kind of work is typical of the shit that goes on in the US. For $200 he could have found some used 90 brakes that would stop him fast enough to make his nose bleed.
Aaron...now you at least have a good 3rd....just so this has SOMETHING TO DO WITH DIFFS. I think thats what the poll was about?

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

apparently the sarcasm was missed. no i won't be running on the wheel bearings. my plan is to either retube the toy housing to match the front factory width or go ahead and graft the toy swivel balls to the rover housing and do a real swap. then i can have my steering in the right place etc. high steer arms, hydro assist, yada, yada.

by the way, you guys need to go over to the toy forum and gain a little more insight.
common set up
toy front 55.5"
ifs toy hub conversion 1.5" per side
2" backspaced rims
nets you about 80" track width depending on tires. never seen a wheel bearing failure.

apparently the sarcasm was missed. no i won't be running on the wheel bearings. my plan is to either retube the toy housing to match the front factory width or go ahead and graft the toy swivel balls to the rover housing and do a real swap. then i can have my steering in the right place etc. high steer arms, hydro assist, yada, yada.

Yes I did miss the sarcasm ,and for that I apologise. After re reading that post
I picked it up but it was a bit too subtle for a serious old fart like me.

I have no doubt that some people get away with the track widening mods that you described in your last post, but then there are those like the farmer who lived down the road from me with an FJ45 Toyota tabletop fitted with stock wheels and 7.50x16 tyres with a 6/246 perkins deisel which would not be much if any heavier than the stock petrol engine plus a winch. This guy is not a serous offroader. He just uses his truck to feed his cattle on a 60 acre farm in dry times. he broke both spindles in the space of 6 months last year.
I spose my friend Buckon 37,s would say that just because I say I,ve seen it doesn,t really mean that it happened. but that,s what these forums are about .call it bullshit if you wish, but other people who read these threads can make up their own minds.

by the way, you guys need to go over to the toy forum and gain a little more insight.
common set up
toy front 55.5"
ifs toy hub conversion 1.5" per side
2" backspaced rims
nets you about 80" track width depending on tires. never seen a wheel bearing failure.
yeah man.....got it. I work on Toyota's in the shop also. Still own a couple, mostly for my kids to drive. Got Toyota parts in my Rover. I just didn't understand the merits of the whole swap. Its not hard to get good brakes, my Rangie, fully loaded, will lock 35" tyres. The axle / diff combos for a rover housing are out there (vote Toyota with bacon). Then there is the high steer,
very cool. Now I get it. Does the Rover steering box drop arm get in the way of that?

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

yeah man.....got it. I work on Toyota's in the shop also. Still own a couple, mostly for my kids to drive. Got Toyota parts in my Rover. I just didn't understand the merits of the whole swap. Its not hard to get good brakes, my Rangie, fully loaded, will lock 35" tyres. The axle / diff combos for a rover housing are out there (vote Toyota with bacon). Then there is the high steer,
very cool. Now I get it. Does the Rover steering box drop arm get in the way of that?

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering
yes, the rover arms swings in front of the box. some how this would need to be addressed. either a toy box or a saginaw. either way i need a new box as mine leaks even the lucas molases now. once again, i can find a seal kit for either a toy ifs gear box or saginaw, but none for the rover.

discussing with a local friend that has a part time fab shop here about taking the rover front housing, and machining the flange off of the swivel ball and press the toy swivel into it. then the toy outer stuff can be used, keep the rover housing and be done with it. only custom part then needed will be inner shafts.

Yes I did miss the sarcasm ,and for that I apologise. After re reading that post
I picked it up but it was a bit too subtle for a serious old fart like me.

I have no doubt that some people get away with the track widening mods that you described in your last post, but then there are those like the farmer who lived down the road from me with an FJ45 Toyota tabletop fitted with stock wheels and 7.50x16 tyres with a 6/246 perkins deisel which would not be much if any heavier than the stock petrol engine plus a winch. This guy is not a serous offroader. He just uses his truck to feed his cattle on a 60 acre farm in dry times. he broke both spindles in the space of 6 months last year.
I spose my friend Buckon 37,s would say that just because I say I,ve seen it doesn,t really mean that it happened. but that,s what these forums are about .call it bullshit if you wish, but other people who read these threads can make up their own minds.

Question. Do you even know what "Circumstantial Evidence" means? I don't doubt your farm buddy broke a spindle, but I don't care and it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Let me try to phase this another way. Take the following scenario. Lets say your farm buddy was riding in his Toyota and a meteor fell from the sky, hit the hood, and burned it to the ground. Most people would look at that and think, "Damn, you don't see that everyday". You, on the other hand, would conclude that all Toyota's attract meteors and never ride in a Toyota again. Then later, you would log onto a discussion about Toyota's, and say something like this:

"This farmer who lived down the road from me with an FJ45 Toyota tabletop fitted with stock wheels and 7.50x16 tyres with a 6/246 perkins deisel which would not be much if any heavier than the stock petrol engine plus a winch. This guy is not a serous offroader. He just uses his truck to feed his cattle on a 60 acre farm in dry times. He got hit by a meteor driving that truck. Toyotas attract meteors."

There, do you get it? Do you see why nobody cares about your farmer buddy? :shaking: :flipoff2:

most of the toy guys i know run at least 3" of wheel spacing (per wheel). they are all shooting for 60-61" wms.

by the way, can any of you guys tell me what the wms-wms width of a disco is anyway?

[QUOTE=Buckon37s]Question. Do you even know what "Circumstantial Evidence" means? I don't doubt your farm buddy broke a spindle, but I don't care and it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Let me try to phase this another way. Take the following scenario. Lets say your farm buddy was riding in his Toyota and a meteor fell from the sky, hit the hood, and burned it to the ground. Most people would look at that and think, "Damn, you don't see that everyday". You, on the other hand, would conclude that all Toyota's attract meteors and never ride in a Toyota again. Then later, you would log onto a discussion about Toyota's, and say something like this:

"This farmer who lived down the road from me with an FJ45 Toyota tabletop fitted with stock wheels and 7.50x16 tyres with a 6/246 perkins deisel which would not be much if any heavier than the stock petrol engine plus a winch. This guy is not a serous offroader. He just uses his truck to feed his cattle on a 60 acre farm in dry times. He got hit by a meteor driving that truck. Toyotas attract meteors."

There, do you get it? Do you see why nobody cares about your farmer buddy? :shaking: :flipoff2:[/QUOTE

Well, If a meteor ever strikes your truck, don't come crying to me saying I never warned you
Bill.

discussing with a local friend that has a part time fab shop here about taking the rover front housing, and machining the flange off of the swivel ball and press the toy swivel into it. then the toy outer stuff can be used, keep the rover housing and be done with it. only custom part then needed will be inner shafts.
I beleive that most places that sell rover parts sell a seal kit for the Rover box, Rovers North, DAP, Atlantic British etc.

I'm running Longfeild CV's in the Rover housing with a Rover 3rd. All the parts are available from Rovertaks including the 24/30 spline axles. Easy swap and relatively inexpensive, especially for what you get. Although you seem pretty determined to go your own way........nuthin' wrong with that.

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

I guess I should jump back into my own thread...:flipoff2:
My thoughts at this point, with a baby due in May- swap to 24 spline in the rear, and drop in a trutrack or detroit. I can do all this for about $600, including stock axles and hubs.
1. eliminates the current weak spot, the 2 pin set up
2. stronger shafts, easy to get my hands on more if needed.

If I toast the shafts, I will look at getting HD ones. This is a trail truck, not shooting for the full on Rock Crawler set up yet. I also have several options with others selling existing axles or diffs with lockers, and that will be considered when I finally pull the trigger. Given the info I go here, I would probably do the Toy swap front and rear to get the gearing improved, but right now that is more money than I care to dump into it at the moment. I really appreciate all the opinions, I learn more here than anywhere else on the web when it comes to "real world" applications of ideas.

I beleive that most places that sell rover parts sell a seal kit for the Rover box, Rovers North, DAP, Atlantic British etc.

I'm running Longfeild CV's in the Rover housing with a Rover 3rd. All the parts are available from Rovertaks including the 24/30 spline axles. Easy swap and relatively inexpensive, especially for what you get. Although you seem pretty determined to go your own way........nuthin' wrong with that.

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering
that would be me. i have always been determined to go my own way. just like the first guy to do anything to any rig:flipoff2: i have built some things that were works of modern art (and never should have seen the light of day), and i have built some things that the critics didn't like but turned out quite well.
i haven't got a lot of experience, but i am driven to build things and i follow my gut. works quite well so far.

so to our friend with the axle dilemma, if you buy a locker and a true track for your rover diff, unless you plan on "just a trail truck" for the rest of your life (which there is nothing wrong with that), just wait until you do have the money and build it right the first time.

I guess I should jump back into my own thread...:flipoff2:
My thoughts at this point, with a baby due in May- swap to 24 spline in the rear, and drop in a trutrack or detroit. I can do all this for about $600, including stock axles and hubs.
1. eliminates the current weak spot, the 2 pin set up
2. stronger shafts, easy to get my hands on more if needed.

If I toast the shafts, I will look at getting HD ones. This is a trail truck, not shooting for the full on Rock Crawler set up yet. I also have several options with others selling existing axles or diffs with lockers, and that will be considered when I finally pull the trigger. Given the info I go here, I would probably do the Toy swap front and rear to get the gearing improved, but right now that is more money than I care to dump into it at the moment. I really appreciate all the opinions, I learn more here than anywhere else on the web when it comes to "real world" applications of ideas.
If your thinking about upgrading the diff I'd wait until you can also do the axles. Broken axles very often (in my experience) damage both Detroits and, to a lesser degree ,True Track's. It's not worth going trough all the hassle of setting up a diff to wreck it.

Matt Browne
Overland Engineering

discussing with a local friend that has a part time fab shop here about taking the rover front housing, and machining the flange off of the swivel ball and press the toy swivel into it. then the toy outer stuff can be used, keep the rover housing and be done with it. only custom part then needed will be inner shafts.

I am also curious as to why you would want to do this. It seems like there was a weak point with the Toy outers, just can't remember what it was.

Then there is the lug pattern issue. You would ultimately have to do something in the rear so you would only have to carry 1 spare (matching patterns).

Now, with that being said I'm not discouraging you from doing it. Custom stuff is cool! Who knows, maybe you'll have a better option in the end.

I am also curious as to why you would want to do this. It seems like there was a weak point with the Toy outers, just can't remember what it was.

Then there is the lug pattern issue. You would ultimately have to do something in the rear so you would only have to carry 1 spare (matching patterns).

Now, with that being said I'm not discouraging you from doing it. Custom stuff is cool! Who knows, maybe you'll have a better option in the end.
toy outers are pretty strong. better than a d44. don't know how strong the rover swivels and knuckles are, but i can't do high steer with them.

as far as lug patterns go, i will do 8 lug all the way around. wheel adapters in the front and d 60 shortened on the r side like a sals.
the only weak point of a toy is the birf in comparo to the rest of the front end.

i have friends that are wheeling toy buggies, with just the longfield cromo birfs on 42" iroks. now granted they aren't "gettin it awn", but wheeling quite judiciously, but that is hella better than what one can do with the rover axle.

it is funny to watch some of the evolution occur over here on the rover board. a lot of these swaps and issues had arisen over on the toy forum about 5 years ago.

people fought hard and spent a lot of money trying to upgrade the toy stuff and resisted the move to swap in 60s for a long time, but eventually a lot of us sold out.

i did it in my toy and i will never go back. most of the myths about the 60s are just that.

like my favorite the "ground clearance" myth. total crap. never had that problem with my 60.

doug brown from new york (highhonda on the vendor section) can send me a chevy front for $1150 shipped to my front door. that price includes the cost of shipping. cheap? well no, but it is fair. if you can drive to new york it will be $800 for a complete axle. how will a toy swap be that cheap? that is the cost of just the high pinion e locker third you will have to have in order to make the rover front work. and i am still left with the brake issue. pound for pound i like the 60.








but i don't have $1200:(

discussing with a local friend that has a part time fab shop here about taking the rover front housing, and machining the flange off of the swivel ball and press the toy swivel into it. then the toy outer stuff can be used, keep the rover housing and be done with it. only custom part then needed will be inner shafts.

I am confused. Why go to all the trouble? Why not just use the entire Toy front axle?:confused:

I am confused. Why go to all the trouble? Why not just use the entire Toy front axle?:confused:
55.5" wms to wms
thats why. it will take 3" of wheel spacing per side to make it useable.

OK, I found the solution to front axle probloems in Gen4x4

:smokin:

just registered for my free set that i am going to win:smokin:

OK, I found the solution to front axle probloems in Gen4x4

:smokin:

unfortunately you would have to sell your first born to pay for them. That "might" get you in trouble at home depending on how much the better half likes the first born.

If it were my parents, they would have sold me...

unfortunately you would have to sell your first born to pay for them. That "might" get you in trouble at home depending on how much the better half likes the first born.

If it were my parents, they would have sold me...

Yeah, she is pretty attached. That is why I plan on winning a pair :D

Pete