Most of you know Jack at CTM or have heard of his u-joints and axle work.

They are clearly a superior product. (at least in my mind) Jack's customer service and support is undeniably hard to beat.

There are some competitors coming down the pike and attempting to grab a share of this niche market.

My question is, what do you think of their chances? Or, put another way, has Jack's determination and good products established him as the better option with real world wheelers?

This concerns me as Jack is a wonderful friend of mine and I don't want to see his business diminish after all the hard work he has put into bringing a viable solution to us that like to run smaller front axles.

I also can't help but feel they are attempting to ride his coat tails in a copycat manner.

Any thoughts on this?

i think competition is good for any product. If his product turns out to be the best, people will always buy it. If not they'll buy something better. Either way the consumer benefits. This is part of what makes America the great country it is.:usa:

Steve

EDIT: BTW, this is Chit-Chat NEWBIE:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

...I always factor customer service and dedication to the sport into the equation along with cost. If CTM's joints are anywhere close to the cost of the copy-cat competition I'll spend the money for my next set of high strength u-joints (assuming that time ever comes) with Jack. I hate cheap-ass whiners who balk at throwing a little money at a small business that has worked hard to make my recreational activities more recreational!

Originally posted by offroadr35
i think competition is good for any product. If his product turns out to be the best, people will always buy it. If not they'll buy something better. Either way the consumer benefits. This is part of what makes America the great country it is.:usa:

Steve

EDIT: BTW, this is Chit-Chat NEWBIE:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I would guess if I did a search in Chit Chat, and then did one in this section, that there would be a far higher number of threads concerning CTM here than there. Thus, my reason for posting here.

If it is inappropriate, I am fairly certain that the powers that be are capable of relocating it to it's correct area.

so who is making the copies?

Originally posted by Lance
so who is making the copies?

I believe OX is. I saw some some stuff at EJS and looked pretty beefy.

Originally posted by Goat Boy


I believe OX is. I saw some some stuff at EJS and looked pretty beefy.

Didn't " they "get some of their technology from CTM? I seem to recall i heard something about that. Vaugly remember hearing that " they " screwed him on some design he had originally come out with. Please don't quote me on it and if you know some facts ( because all i have is hearsay ) then please post it up. No matter the price, i will always give my money to jack because of his product, and mostly because of his service.

when the big boys ( randys, superior and the like ) come out with their version they will most likley capture the majority of the volume from the masses because they have a huge customer base and do alot of marketing. i think jack will remain firmly planted in the hardcore market because of his involvment with the rockcrawls and with his support of this web site.

Originally posted by camo
when the big boys ( randys, superior and the like ) come out with their version they will most likley capture the majority of the volume from the masses because they have a huge customer base and do alot of marketing. i think jack will remain firmly planted in the hardcore market because of his involvment with the rockcrawls and with his support of this web site.

This is how i feel, the Supiroir joints are due out soon, from eveything i hear they are going to suck!. People will buy them because they will be cheaper the CTM's but i know people will snap them and then ask Jack for a set

I haven't heard jack ;) about the Superior joints.

I just asked a friend who's in the industry, his take is that the Superior joints are going to be comparable in cost and the joint looks good in terms of strength.

Some actual firsthand info would be great. With all the folks on this BB at the heart of the hardcore 4x4 industry, hopefully somebody will post the real poop soon.
I'm saving my pennies for CTMs, but if the Superior joints are comparable strength for less $ I'll buy them. Competition is healthy. It's ridiculous to suggest that because one guy inovates nobody else can come along and compete with him.

Were that the case, nails wouldn't have heads and they'd still be made of wood, and we'd all be driving horse-drawn buggies.:rolleyes:

...and the guy I talked to said that the Super Joint is at least a month out and they are currently looking at two designs; one 300m ChroMo with no rollers in the caps and another bi-metal? (WTF?) that does have rollers. No info on price other than "way more than a Spicer 297"

Originally posted by Lance
so who is making the copies?

Lance, I know of two and rumors of two more. One definite is Superior and the other is OX/DTD. Practically inseparable the last two for all intents and purposes.

I highly reflect Camo's sentiments and that's is what got me to wondering what everyone else's thoughts on the matter were.

I totally agree that in most normal business practices, that competition is a good thing. I just couldn't convince myself that a concept such as that, totally applied to Jack. I do admit to being highly biased in that area though. I consider Jack to be one of my better friends and have enjoyed many fun days in JV with him.

Hence, the reality check.

Personally, I tend to stick with the service oriented people similar to my experiences with America's Tire. Took a deeply gashed 37-12.50-17 MT/R in yesterday. The guy I always deal with took a look at it, stated that it wasn't quite to the cord yet and replaced it. He said he figured since it was already dismounted, why not?

Hard to do business elsewhere with that kind of service.

Well I guess we will see if their stuff is up to Jack's standads. For the record, nobody has still been able to break a CTM. That's gonna be tough to beat. And Jack is WAY cool, and has customer service like Jesse. :cool2:

superior keeps saying one more month.But i'll bet they got there hands on one of the CTM's and are trying to figure out how the hell they can make something that strong for less money. Like i and many others have said, Jack holds true to his service and who can complain about a lifetime replacement warranty. CTM kicks ass. Thanks Jack.

Jack is a great guy. I don't think he has anything to worry about. His "competition" can spend their time imitating him while he continues innovating. Keep it up Jack! :usa: :beer:

Inovating eh? I hear [albeit 2nd hand] that Jack took somebody else's idea, and made a usable product out of it.
Product/company (Jack) loyalty is one thing, and respectable at that. Just don't go slamming others for wanting to play.

Originally posted by cbassett
Inovating eh? I hear [albeit 2nd hand] that Jack took somebody else's idea, and made a usable product out of it.
Product/company (Jack) loyalty is one thing, and respectable at that. Just don't go slamming others for wanting to play.

I don't know that I would quite put it that way. It was more of a collaboration than anything else. Jack had previous been working on a stronger joint and it just wasn't working correctly.

Someone walked into the shop one day, a conversation ensued, the lightbulb turned on, and there you go, a very nice product.

That is not secondhand info.

Not trying to slam Jack, not at all. Just putting this into perspective. Maybe it came out wrong...sue me....but get in line>:D

Blaine: Ripped an MT/R? Damn, shoulda got Swampers. LOL.
dion

I have talked with Jack for almost two years before hardly anyone knew who he was including people on this board and what he was capable of producing. The first two pairs of joints he made for 60 fronts were for myself and a buddy of mine from missouri.Jack has always been extremely nice to talk to and one of the reasons is because he is a wheeler who enjoys the challenge of producing something that nobody else can make or has made yet. Unfortunately,I would have to agree with camo's thoughts that Randys,DTS/ox and superior are certainly going to be big players in the market considering their marketing budgets. Once a good product comes along their are always people lurking to come out with similiar product to compete for a niche in the market which at the time Jack started producing his joints there were none.It is simply a matter of economics and business.Not to mention a certain percentage of their(randy's,DTS/ox, superior) market base are people who don't exactly hang out on this board and are still in "the cutting their teeth" aspect of four wheeling who have absolutely no idea about CTM joints.They simply see what is in the magazines and that is it.. However, those that are more knowledgable and entrenched in the hardcore wheeling world will more likley be the market base for Jack. I called jack and talked to him a couple of months ago to just to say "hi" and see how life was for him..It was really cool to hear him say he was so happy and that his dream had finally come true as he was beginning to make a living doing what he loves. I am glad to see success for him and I absoultely wish the best for him.In the end I think he will continue to remain at the top of the market in terms of quality and customer service as it difficult to beat someone who puts so much into his product and stands behind it .just my 2 cents.