I did some searching and couldn't find how thick the square tubing should be and the width most people used. Any help would be appricated....

I used 2.5 X .25 for the outer and 2X.25 for the inner. This is the same steel used for trailer reciever hitch. I also had my yokes milled square so they would slip in, and welded the fawk out of it. It's a strong som-a-b1tch.

I think it would be a good idea to weld on some strips of about 24 gauge steel on two sides of the smaller shaft to help with the slop in the fit. It's kinda noisey when your hubs are locked but your out of 4WD ( no load).

On mine too was. Outer tube 2.5", .250" thick. Inner tube is 2" and I think it was also .250" thick. I put the slip up at the t-case (cv side)too, to help keep crap out of the drive shaft.

Thankx for the info... I will be making mine today..

I think I ended up with about 16" of slip.

Originally posted by Clifton
On mine too was.Who are you? Yoda?

<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square2.jpg">
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square3.jpg">
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square4.jpg">

What is the length of the 2 tubes ? I am going to make one now and then when I get dual cases I am going to just make a new inner ( male ) shaft. It will be cheaper to redo that then the 2.5" reciever . I am going to have 44044's in the front.

Glenn, why did you use a CV on a square drive? Why not just use a regular u-joint? :confused:

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
Who are you? Yoda?

A bit of retardation, it comes and goes.:D

Originally posted by BrianR
Glenn, why did you use a CV on a square drive? Why not just use a regular u-joint? :confused:

probably because thats what he had to work with. i was gonna do it that way but decided I need a new rear driveshaft so I'm gonna use one end of the rear for the front T-case end.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy


probably because thats what he had to work with. i was gonna do it that way but decided I need a new rear driveshaft so I'm gonna use one end of the rear for the front T-case end.

See, now that makes sense, I would have saved my CV for the rear. But then I have two set's of shaft's to work with :p

how do the square shafts work at high rpm?
Aren't they more difficult to balance than circular tube d-lines?
Also, you guys are using square normal slip yokes, right?
How does one mill a round yoke square?
Please explain the internal guts to these shafts..
:confused:

how do the square shafts work at high rpm?
Like shit, they are built for low-speed rock crawling!!


Aren't they more difficult to balance than circular tube d-lines?
You do not balance them

Also, you guys are using square normal slip yokes, right?
How does one mill a round yoke square?
With a grinder

Please explain the internal guts to these shafts..
The same way you put a trailer hitch into the recieiver, it slides together except you grease it.:rasta:

Originally posted by OPP'S


Please explain the internal guts to these shafts..
The same way you put a trailer hitch into the recieiver, it slides together except you grease it.:rasta:

I think I'm going to drill 2 small holes in the one I make to install grease fittings. I'll put them on oppistie sides and about 6" apart.

Originally posted by flimmy


I think I'm going to drill 2 small holes in the one I make to install grease fittings. I'll put them on oppistie sides and about 6" apart. Did that on the first one I made, did not put them up high enought and they both got knocked off by rocks. Another thing about the square d-shafts is if it gets on the rocks it can "walk" the rig sideways a bit.

Originally posted by OPP'S
Did that on the first one I made, did not put them up high enought and they both got knocked off by rocks. Another thing about the square d-shafts is if it gets on the rocks it can "walk" the rig sideways a bit.

Thanks, I'll have to remember that.

I believe I am gonna make some trail spares like these.
Any tips on getting them as straight as possible? Any tips on construction?

I thought those pics looked familiar, that's my driveline. I did go and put in 4 grease fittings after the paint dried. The driveline has been in for quite a while now and I love it. Don't have to worry about it in the rocks at all. I used the CV from Rick's 85 runner because I have an L45 4spd and even with the crawler, my front output flange is still about where a stock 84+ five speed sits.

ftp://crawlers:cc0202@ftp.cascadecrawlers.com/Pete/xd.jpg

(The nice part of this being that my breakover angle is greater) Any way, Rick used two u-joints on his square tube driveshaft so I snaked his CV for it's bigger bolt pattern and re-drilled my flanges to accept the larger 10mm bolts (I had to replace the front output flange with a 84+CV flange as the original '81 flange was SQUARE. I re-drilled the 84+ CV flange to also accept a 84+ standard u-joint pattern. (My 81 had the small 8mm bolts originally. For the diff end of the shaft I used the slip yoke end from a later runner (I literally found it on the ground out at the junk yard.)

As long as your applying power to the thing and the hubs are locked in you really don't notice it at all. If you drive around in 2hi with the hubs engaged you hear it banging a little. I do grease it about every other time we go wheeling. As long as there's grease between the surfaces it stays really quiet.

Oh yeah, a few more things:

I "machined" the slip yoke end "squarish" with an angle grinder until it slid in. Eyeballed the tubes into place so they would be in phase with the u-joints, then welded the hell out of it.

I cut off the round driveline off the CV and then welded the square tube to where the round tube used to be. Has held up just fine to loads of abuse. Lots of passes with the mig on that end...like 3-4 heavy-hot passes.

You use trailer hitch stock for the big tube because it doesn't have a seam on the inside of the tubing. I made the mistake of using seamed tubing on my bumper. That was a lot of time with an air file to make the hitch fit. Live and learn.

I capped off the inner tube by welding a little square plate to the open end of it. I have the slip at the bottom so any crap that does make it up in there will drain out. There's so much grease in between the two tubes though that nothing really gets up in there.

As for length, I welded up both sections, measured the distance from flange to flange, and cut off about 2 feet of excess tubing that I didnt' need. Just make it long and cut it off to fit. Measure twice cut once. Just for info: Ricks 85 runner with the crawler, and the front axle moved forward 2": HIs square front drive line is so long and has so much slip, that he can mount it as an emergency rear shaft if necessary. (I have no chance of doing that with my early short tranny and long wheel base (bed bobbed 17") even with the crawler.)

I did have to clearance my stock transfer case x-member. Just cut a notch out of it and then bend and weld a piece of sheet metal in there.

ftp://crawlers:cc0202@ftp.cascadecrawlers.com/Pete/x-member%20out.jpg

And yes, I know my transfer is hanging out just begging to be hit, that issuse is being addressed shortly.

Once again thankx for all the GREAT INFO!!! I didn't get to build it yesterday but today should be the day!!

Damn good stuff here.
Thanks, especially OPP'S. :D

Originally posted by NE-RokToy


probably because thats what he had to work with. i was gonna do it that way but decided I need a new rear driveshaft so I'm gonna use one end of the rear for the front T-case end.

You're right... I had three fronts. I needed a CV in the rear so one of em went there. I used one to build the square. Actually, Dustin Emick built it. Same guy who did my exocage. I still have a front left. I'm gonna get Jesse to make it into another rear (spare).

I did the grease zerks (two) and had the same problem with em getting knocked off on the rocks. I'm gonna try those little pinhole type that are more flush. Maybe a little further up too. :D

Has anyone ever broken a square Driveshaft?

Originally posted by Glenn
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square2.jpg">
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square3.jpg">
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/85runner/square4.jpg">

are they both trailer tube. cuase i noticed that the reciver tube they sell with the hole also hase the corners machined so that the 2x2 hitches fit. i bought trailer tube from the steel place and noticed the corners wern't machined and my hith didn't fit. would the 2" trailer tube be a bit smaller and fit inside the 2.5 trailer tube. i know the hiches are made of regulare 2x2 tube seamed just didn't fit the 2.5 seamless tube.

When I went to the steel shop I just asked for a 4' piece of trailer receiver stock (2.5 x 2.5 x .25) and a piece of hitch stock 2 x 2 x .25. Mine had a pretty tight fit. Rick's squre tube shaft was a little sloppy so he welded some thing steel shims in to tighten things up.

I would like to know if anyone has broken one of these, I assume if they have they broke at the weld. I wouldnt see how you could twist that trailer tube.....

The only place these shafts will break is at the u-joint or at the welds, and the welds just depend on how good a welder you are. Think about it, the shafts, when slid together are the equivilant of a 1/2" thck wall tube. Everything else will break before the shafts fold.

Originally posted by bigjeepinYJ
I would like to know if anyone has broken one of these, I assume if they have they broke at the weld. I wouldnt see how you could twist that trailer tube..... I have never heard of anyone breaking one. The three that I have made for other people are still going strong. But then again these are for rock crawling, u-joints are welds are where they are going to break.:D

After adding the dual case my front driveshaft needed to be longer.

I decided that I am doing this tonight and decided to go with one 1 1/8 solid and a real tight fitting piece of 1/4 square as the slip.

My driveshaft will be 34 inches long and I want about 10 inches of slip.



will this be as strong as reciever stock? Is solid tubing weaker than regular square? I know the diameter isnt as large but this stuff is used on tractors and as PTO shaft.

What do you guys think?

Im going to try it out .

Originally posted by flexlarson
Is solid tubing weaker than regular square? I know the diameter isnt as large but this stuff is used on tractors and as PTO shaft.



What is "solid tubing"?????

You do mean solid stock!!!!


Should be strong enough, try it and let us know!!!!

Originally posted by Lowtorious

Also, you guys are using square normal slip yokes, right?
How does one mill a round yoke square?
Just using the end that would normally have tube or the yoke. You mill a round tube square on a mill :flipoff2:

My spare square fits front or rear, driveline's are within 1" of each other on my rig :D

WOW :eek: Talk about a blast from the past i started this post 1 year ago this month... lol :D

Originally posted by drnut
WOW :eek: Talk about a blast from the past i started this post 1 year ago this month... lol :D

:eek: someone was heavy on the SEARCH button

Originally posted by drnut
WOW :eek: Talk about a blast from the past i started this post 1 year ago this month... lol :D

was wondering why none of the pics were showing up

My mistake Square STOCK
Ill post a pic later this afternoon on what if turned out like .

I had a local machine shop weld it up for me .

LOL, Every time I go to get steel for square shafts, the guys at the steel shop think I'm a fwaken Retard...... No matter how many times I explain it.... One guy even has a crawler! Some people...

To add to endless subject tech! :D
for mine, and others I've built...

I use 2.25"-OD reciver(seemless) .25 wall (about $1.15/foot) for the outter and reg 2"-OD (seemed) .25 wall ($0.35/foot) for the inner part. Fits real nice!
With my dual cases and axles moved 2" out. I have each end cut at 18" giving about 11" of usuable slip, could have gone more but didn't...

For others making these, try not to think too much into it.... really! It's a cheep easy solution to slow speed crawling...
I've had mine upto about 35mph before it started to really shake....

-Jerry-

I would love to see some pics of a build-up... thinking of doing this...

i've had the steel in the back of my runner to do it for the past week. hoping to get it done this weekend.

Originally posted by YotaRunner

For others making these, try not to think too much into it.... really! It's a cheep easy solution to slow speed crawling...
I've had mine upto about 35mph before it started to really shake....

-Jerry-

Are you running u-joints at both ends of the square shaft.

Originally posted by YotaRunner

I use 2.25"-OD reciver(seemless) .25 wall (about $1.15/foot) for the outter and reg 2"-OD (seemed) .25 wall ($0.35/foot) for the inner part. Fits real nice!


How do you fit a 2" into a 1.75"? Unless you meant to say 2.5" :flipoff2:

I used the same steek as Granite Guru and it works sweet!:eek:

That would be steel, not steek.

Originally posted by FYRDUDE
That would be steel, not steek. Then use the http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/edit.gif button next time. :p

could I build one of these for my willys with a dana 44 and np205 if so what size tube should I use

Yes.

The same size everyone else used. Reciever hitch stock.

Originally posted by OOP'S
Another thing about the square d-shafts is if it gets on the rocks it can "walk" the rig sideways a bit.

I let a buddy drive my truck a few weeks ago and watched this happen. Looks cool to see the truck move sideways as the shaft walks across the rock.

I know this is an old thread, but, I figured I'd post here instead of making a new thread.

I am making my square shaft today. I cut off the ends of my 88 4Runner IFS front shaft, and I have some 2.5"/2.0" seamless tubing that I'm going to use for the shaft. The u-joint end fits right down in the 2.0" tube just fine, but the CV end is too big to fit over the 2.5" end. I've seen where people just slip the 2.5" tube right over the CV end. Here's a pic for reference

http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig/posts/sqcv.jpg

Now comes the question. How should I get it to fit? If I were to take a little off the corners of the 2.5" tube, would that weaken it? Or just cut all of the tube off and weld it together? Am I just missing something really simple here?

As you said, one end you just cut the yoke off of, leaving an inch or two to line it up... and it drops in.

For the other end (the one in your picture above) I have a buddy who has (had?) a hookup at a machine shop. We turned it down in a lathe until it was a hand-tight press fit, lined it up, and welded it in. :)

does an ifs cv joint(stock) even have enough angle/dangle to be used on a vehicle with one tcase up front???????????????

I'm going to modify it for more angle


www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod

No, it doesn't. You'll have to take it apart to clearance it - ErikB has a writeup article on this in 4x4wire.com's toy section.

Personally, since the IFS CV is next to impossible for many people to get apart, I just kept my non-CV yokes at both ends. :)

Originally posted by Adam F
I'm going to modify it for more angle


www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod

good article, thanks for the link:D

So, being that I dont have a machine shop or a lathe, what would be the best method for making this work?

Originally posted by Adam F
So, being that I dont have a machine shop or a lathe, what would be the best method for making this work?

ill sell you a square shaft i have in the garage for $75:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Booger Weldz


ill sell you a square shaft i have in the garage for $75:flipoff2:


I'll trade ya a 4.10 IFS diff for it! :flipoff2:


I'll make it work one way or another. I just want it as straight as possible, so I can possibly drive in the snow in 4wd.

Originally posted by Adam F
I'm going to modify it for more angle

Just out of curiousity, why? I wouldn't think you could spin a square shaft fast enough to even matter?

I have a square drive shaft in the rear that has a sick angle on it and I wouldn't drive it over 30mph with it on wether it had a CV or not.

Originally posted by Adam F
I'll make it work one way or another. I just want it as straight as possible

kinda like your front spring hanger:flipoff2: :D J/K!! :D

Originally posted by Booger Weldz


kinda like your front spring hanger:flipoff2: :D J/K!! :D


Yep! :D :D :flipoff2:


If I dont modify it for more angle, won't it bind with extreme articulation?


As for spinning it fast enough, I would like to be able to make it smooth enough so that when it snows, I can still put it in 4wd on the street and drive up to at least 40 mph.

Originally posted by Adam F



Yep! :D :D :flipoff2:


As for spinning it fast enough, I would like to be able to make it smooth enough so that when it snows, I can still put it in 4wd on the street and drive up to at least 40 mph.

i square shaft out of receiver tubing is HEAVY. it wont be balanced and if you get it spinning real fast itll possibly destroy pinion or out put shaft bearings, if not wear the shiat out of them real fast???(i dunno). mine worked(no vibes/no cv joint) good on fireraods(i didnt have a speedometer) but i think the idea is bad.


:nuke:

Personally, since the IFS CV is next to impossible for many people to get apart, I just kept my non-CV yokes at both ends.

Works great for mine too. I have beat the crap out of it and no breakage. Not gonna go 40 with it but I dont need to go that fast in 4wd.

I don't think it will wear them out that fast. It only snows bad enough to use 4wd a few times a year over here. So I would only use 4wd at high speeds a few times a year, and when I do it would only be for 15 miles at a time, max.

I'm running 44044's and chevys, square shafts front and rear without CV's. I can't guess on my rear shaft angle but it's nasty. It flexes pretty good and i've have never broke a u joint or yoke. I would only run a CV in the rear on a round shaft that had a bad angle and was seeing highway speeds. Not only that but CV's add another component that can wear out or break on you.

the vibes might rattle off your front hanger:flipoff2: :D

http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/afertig/88/images/sas05.jpg

Who cares about the front hanger? That's old news. I'm not ashamed of it, and I'm not trying to hide it. I have access to a welder now, and probably this weekend I'm going to cut it off and fix it. Give it a rest.

i agree with Paul on this one ( or maybe it's just the drugs talking from surgery this morning :flipoff2: ) but anyway,the driveshaft is a very heavy thing and with it not being balanced,it will start destoying things at high speeds like pinion bearings,seals,etc.etc..you may not be able to see anything wrong, but its doing the damage..the square shafts are built mainly for sloooooowwwwwww speeds ( although some people do drive them 40+ mph.) but mine only gets to like 30 mph or so and starts to vibrate to hell and back and i took my time making sure everything was straight lined up and all...but if your wanting to drive it on the road during snow ( which i believe we are gonna have alot of this year in this area) i would just give jesse a call..but even if you get it straight as an arrow,it will still vibrate due to your front hanger and possibly your shackle hangers through the frame ( may not be straight either ) by using the torch

Originally posted by Adam F
Who cares about the front hanger? That's old news. I'm not ashamed of it, and I'm not trying to hide it. I have access to a welder now, and probably this weekend I'm going to cut it off and fix it. Give it a rest.


we aint trying to be assholes about it..damn :rolleyes:

just stating that it could cause problems and trying to help ya out .. no reason to get an attitude about us mentioning it ;)

Ok, thanks for the advice. Gives me something to think about. Guess I need to start saving up for a real shaft!

I'm not getting an attitude about it, just getting annoyed. He already make a joke about it once in this thread. I mean come on, why bring up stupid shit twice in a thread. Diddnt he get a good enough laugh the first time? It has nothing to do with this thread. The only reason it was brought up was to get a laugh.

sorry adam, im not trying to be a dick, but your hanger and front drive shaft at 40 mph could kill someones family on the road. ill quit making jokes about it and just plain tell you. its fawkin garbage, the welds are multiple layers of bird shit that may not have even penetrated and dont tie into one another. i have no family in ohio, so ill let someone else lecture you on the issues with your rolling death trap flying down the interstate.

i had the decency to pay others to weld/fab on my junk until i figured it out, take the responsibilty yourself(lots of others bitched at you about it and you apparently continue to drive it on the road). the life you save might not only be your own. im starting to understand the stringent lift laws and customizing restrictions in some states....

well, he may have brought it up for that but i didn't..just trying to help,besides he beat me on posting anyway( just too damn slow with all the damn drugs i have had today) ..i would just hate to see ya get out and have major problems from the hanger..really glad to see ya getting that fixed. you will be much happier down the road..didn't know if ya was getting an attitude or not,just kinda seemed that way to me but owell :p but when it all boils down to it,it somewhat has something to do with this thread..like i said, it can cause vibrations and such from not being straight..have you twisted the truck up ans see what the driveshaft measurements are yet? i made my sq. shaft thinking i would need it with all the travel i had,but with my duals in there and my shaft angle is different,i only use about 3" of slip on my shaft ( which i should have known that when you angle changes, you dont need that much slip-but had my head up my ass) so maybe with you setup,you could get away with just using a stock shaft,but get some tubing and just lengthing it :confused:


anyway enough rambling..hopefully you can understand it,cuz i sure dont :D i believe i have had 3 shots of demerol ( sp?) and 4 shots of morephine and im feeling pretty good ;)

Originally posted by Adam F
I'm not getting an attitude about it, just getting annoyed. He already make a joke about it once in this thread. I mean come on, why bring up stupid shit twice in a thread. Diddnt he get a good enough laugh the first time? It has nothing to do with this thread. The only reason it was brought up was to get a laugh.

i agree with ya paul..my buddy just did a SAS and it looks like shit and i told him that..also told him to call me when he is on the road,that way i will stay home..so he gets pissed and throws a big attitude,OWELL!! just trying to help him out so he dont kill himself or someone else..besides people see rigs like that and then they think all 4 wheelers have junk like that and dont give a flying rats ass...so then they make more rules against us :flipoff:

Originally posted by NoBrainR


See, now that makes sense, I would have saved my CV for the rear. But then I have two set's of shaft's to work with :p

What you do is goto the 3rd gen 4runner's (96-02 style) and get one of their rear shafts...we got one from a 97 and with no modification it fit on my old 88 4Runner that a friend of mine now owns. The part # that was stamped on the 97 shaft was PN28 and it fit perfect under the 88 (V-6/5spd) and gave him the CV front joint that he needed.

Later,
David