Ok, I Did It, I Put 38" Boggers On A Cj5 With Amc20 Rear End - How Long Will It Last?

What Is The Differance Between Solid Axles & Floating Axles?

I Have A 4" Sup & 3" Body Lift, Will I Have Any Problems - If So, Should I Go With A Soa Lift Or Just Add 2" Add A Leaf.

I Need Answers.

Thanks,

WOW, I think that this is more of a newbie question.....

But, how long is lasts depends on how heavy your right foot is, or how slippery the clutch pedal is.

A floating axle is similat to what is under a 3/4 ton truck. I/E the axle only propels the vehicle, not supporting the weight.

SOA,

Also sugest looking at other peoples builds and projects.

In other words research the idea for some time before asking for everyone to answer your questions.

I hope the info above helps a little...

MB

:rainbow:

http://4wheeloffroad.com/eventcoverage/29599/

9 th pic on the right

I wheeled it for a year with no problems

but if I went out west on the rocks it wouldn't last a day

:D

Solid axles are a little stonger than full floaters....the disconnect on a floater is the weak link.....
Overall, the AMC20 is a tough axle....once you replace the 2 piece axle with solid or floater, then your only weak point is the axle tubes....not as strong as a D44....if you add a truss (on top) and put in a traction bar (to prevent the pumpkin from spining on the tubes), then it's unlikely you will ever tear it up.

Thanks For The Advise, I Might Be A Newbee But I Have About 16 Thousand Invested So Far, So If You Don't Mind I Think I Have Bought The Advise.

I All Was Like To Ask - Nothing Is Betterr Than Experience,,,it A Whole Lot Cheaper To Ask Someone Before Tryiing New Stuff.

Thanks For The Advise!!!!!

I'll Keep Reading Threads, It Has Helped Greatly!!!

Thanks,

Please, easy on the caps :)

Ok, Who Makes The Best / Strongest 1 Piece Axles For The Amc20.

Wow...just wow.

For starters, please stop capitalizing each word, that is very irritating to read.

Superior, Warn, Alloy, those are all great companies, they're all pretty much the same...a one piece axle.

I'd like to point out that you have a CJ-5. Adding alot of lift to a short wheel base vehicle on narrow axles is not the best combo. If you left you're 3" bl on then sprung it over you would have close to 9" of lift...granted you were using stock leaf packs. If you are set on an SOA, take off the body lift, use stock leaf packs and trim a little.

Ok, Who Makes The Best / Strongest 1 Piece Axles For The Amc20.

stop throwin money at that POS get something a little more beefy :barf: :flipoff2:

i had mosers in my amc 20. then i smartened up and bought some rock's which is what i suggest you do cause moser one piecers are 300 plus dollars

Ok, Who Makes The Best / Strongest 1 Piece Axles For The Amc20.


Superior Evolution series

like said -> weld the axle tubes to the housing to keep them from spinning, slap in some one piece axles (which you should already have if you're running 38s on it already) and locker and have it :)

If it breaks -> upgrade it ;)

But I've seen some pretty big and heavy tires on AMC20s hold up pretty well ... and like I said above -> if you break it, it probably wasn't strong enough to begin with :D

dude that will so work, the whole setup lift, lots, 38's, model 20, two piece axles (bonus) you my friend fully get it. why spend any more?

I can't tell you how much i'm digging it.

my old nieghbor ran 38" swampers on his cj5 SOA with 1" body and not sure what size springs... his amc20 held up great.... never had a problem once. it was stock, jeep had a manual tranny and v8... maybe it was b/c he never took it off road... maybe it was bc the previous owner had beefed up the rear axle without mentioning it to him when he bought it... who knows.... looked great :)

You can make your AMC 20 last if you drive with a soft foot. As far as how high to lift it, the answer is just high enough to not chunk your tires to pieces rubbing on your fender wells or whatever. What bothers me is that if you are running the stock transmission, the T150, the first gear ratio is 2.99 to 1 and your AMC 20 is either a 3.54, a 4.10 or a 4.27 to one. The Dana 20 transfer is about 2.05 to one. Even if you've got the 4.27 to one, you are not going to be able to go very slow when the going gets rough without slipping the hell out of your clutch with your lowest ratio, especially with the 38s, so be forewarned.

No one that I have found makes a 4.27 ratio for the amc 20. It goes from 4.10 right to 4.56... FYI

Also, a Full Float kit is def. stronger than a 1 piece. The FF only weakness is in the locking hubs, but most front axles have locking hubs, and they seem to hold up just fine with big tires, lockers, ect. Quality hubs will have no problem. Not to mention they are great for towablity, or if you were to break an axle, spiders, R&P, ect. you can still limp off the trail with them unlocked and the rear DS out.

If you are still worried about the hubs breaking, Warn does sell drive flanges that are even stronger yet, or carry them as spares! Easy to swap out.

I believe that when an AMC 20 has a FF kit, flanges, and trussed it is just as strong as a D60 REAR (which is not as strong as a 31 spline ford 8.8 mind you).

No one that I have found makes a 4.27 ratio for the amc 20. It goes from 4.10 right to 4.56... FYI

Also, a Full Float kit is def. stronger than a 1 piece. It weakness is in the locking hubs, but most front axles have locking hubs, and they seem to hold up just fine with a decent set of hubs. Not to mention they are great for towablity, or if you were to break an axle, spiders, R&P, ect. you can still limp off the trail with them unlocked and the DS out.

If you are that worried about the hubs breaking, Warn does sell drive flanges that are even stronger yet!

I believe that when an AMC 20 has a FF kit, flanges, and trussed it is just as strong as a D60 REAR (which is not as strong as a 31 spline ford 8.8 mind you).


Your last statement leave`s me wondering what color the sky is in you world, and do other people REALLY believe the crap you spew?

Mine is blue, thanks. I stand behind what I said... I thinkg the model 20 can be AS strong, not stronger... D60 rears aint all that, not saying that a D60 is not strong. Here's a link to some torque specs on shaft diameters:
*scroll 1/3 down*

http://www.s10extremist.org/tech_articles/axle_u-joint_strength.htm

an OEM 1.5" dia., 1040 carbon steel, 35 spline, D60 shaft can hold up to 8,966.2 ft./lb. torque.

a 1.28" dia., 4340 chromoly (warn FF), 28 spline (AMC 20 is 29 spline) shaft can withstand 9,147.4 ft./lb. torque. give or take a little bit for the extra 1 spline.

** NOTE** 1 piece axles are usually 1510, not 4340 like the FF kit. Still alot stronger than stock.

So TECHNICALLY an AMC 20 chromoly shaft is stronger than a stock D60 (which is how most people run them). Plus, your also adding the FF design so you have an extra bearing on either hub, more strength.

The only weakness left on the AMC 20 is the housing.... TRUSS IT!!! fixed... :smokin:

The 20 saves alot of weight, and has better ground clearance.
In argument of the D60, its ring gear's diameter is 7/8" larger, but there goes that ground clearance thing!

I did my HW, so I would hope that other people will believe the FACTS I "spew" :flipoff2:

You're right about the 4.27:1, the 4.27 CJ5 was with a Dana 44 rear end. But that only makes what I said even riskier. With a 2.99, a 2.05 and a 4.10, you've got a crawl ratio of about 25:1 which with 38 inch tires truly sucks. You aren't going to break anything except frying your clutch. If you want to run with the big dogs, they all have 60 to 1 or more. The way I see it, the minimum acceptable would be around 30:1 and that would be with 31s.

4.56 is his ticket... minimum

your rear should be about dana 70 strength with those 1-piece shafts.

I think you can still run into more problems than just the material strength. You also have to remember torsional deflection of the shaft(angular twisting). The length of the shaft and the diameter greatly affects its resistance to twisting. For example, a 2" diameter shaft shouldn't have more than 1degree of twist for every 40" of shaft length.
FF is better than one piece any day.
How long will it last?....Stock axles and lockers is a definate break. You should atleast upgrade to one-piece. I have 1piece and 38's on the M20, but it's still open. I got a little ahead of myself and will keep this as a temp stage until upgrade falls my way. I have however heard of plenty of people who use 1piece and lockers with 38's and are still surviving. But consider that bigger axles are better for the long term lifespan.

I have searched warn web for FF kit for waggy AMC 20, but the offer only FFkits for CJs, which one is the righ one for waggy AMC? THX

I forgot to mention... The waggy AMC 20 housings are HD, and have thicker tubes than the CJ. BTW

Give Warn a call and talk to them directly about if they have a FF kit for the waggy 20. If not, CJ widetrack AMC 20's are dirt cheep and plentiful, look around... regaurdless, dont forget that truss!

not cheap and not plentiful :(

look at my location,,,, :shaking:

D35 is about 300-500$ in here

I see what you mean...
I assume that price is from a junk yard, and we're talking AMC 20 here, not D35... a D35 will probably cost you more than a 20, and junk yard should be your last resort, their prices are often rediculous on alot of things. You gota find another Jeep nut to get a reasonable price...

I think you didn´t get it :)

There are no AMC20 for sale in all 3 jeep yunkyards in this country. Last week a friend of mine bought an XJ Ch. 8,25 (without axleshafts) for 400USD :(

No D44, no AMCs, Everything expensive

Well thats quite a pickle... 2 options...

1) Call warn, tell them your situation, and Im sure then can cut the FF shafts to any length you need. They do sell blank shafts to cut and spline to what ever you need, I saw them somewhere.

2) Throw in aftermarket 1 piece shafts, more affordable, and will probably be fine if youre easy on the skinny pedel.

I think you can still run into more problems than just the material strength. You also have to remember torsional deflection of the shaft(angular twisting). The length of the shaft and the diameter greatly affects its resistance to twisting. For example, a 2" diameter shaft shouldn't have more than 1degree of twist for every 40" of shaft length.

Agreed, but 4340 chromoly shaft, I would assume, would have a much higher torsional (twisting) strength that a stock 1050 carbon steel shaft. AMC 20 widetrack shafts are 28 9/16" and 31 9/16". That will help out with torsional rigidity too. Just like how the shaft of a long scew driver will twist more than a screwdriver with a shorter shaft on the same screw.

XJMARTY I would check out http://www.moserengineering.com/Pages/Axles/floaters.html
They don't really list Waggy axles, but I'm sure they'd be more than willing to take your money and set you up for a kit. Go to their Contact page and give them a ring.

Agreed, but 4340 chromoly shaft, I would assume, would have a much higher torsional (twisting) strength that a stock 1050 carbon steel shaft. AMC 20 widetrack shafts are 28 9/16" and 31 9/16". That will help out with torsional rigidity too. Just like how the shaft of a long scew driver will twist more than a screwdriver with a shorter shaft on the same screw.

I'm sure it will have higher torsional strength, but the it'll still retain the smaller diameter shaft. It'll never have the same life expectancy as a larger dia. I'm sure one could run a higher alloy axle, however, once you add in larger factors like lockers and larger tires wear and tear is going to take place. Letting people know that the M20 will hold up depending on you driving style shouldn't be encouragement to keep it. I suggest if it doesn't break keep it, BUT when it does do the right thing and upgrade to a more suitable axle. Besides the M20 didn't get its reputation by sitting there.

Thanks, I´ll try the moser eng.

Hey guys, I know that M20 is not a big deal, but in here it is a BIG deal :) Trust me :)

Thanks for all advices