Thanks to Marc Olivares for the 'Benz. I'll get it in the garage tomorrow and start yanking out the engine/trans.

Get some measurements going, get some pics going, etc...

I'll try to document as much of what I find that I can. I know that there are at least two people that are interested to find out what is possible with this engine, so some pics and maybe a sporadic ongoing thread about the potential conversion will happen.

Thanks again Marc! I owe you! (I think). :flipoff2:

Is it the 4 or 5?

This is the 5 cylinder with the turbo. The car is an '82 320SD.

I am doing a search for a Swedish LR board where I can start asking the stupid newbie conversion questions.

Hopefully someone there has already skinned this cat.

Should be a 300SD. 300 designates a 3.0L, S is the "big body", a 126 in your case and the D means it's a diesel. Nice car.

Uhhhhh, yeah. He's right. :D

Just found this page...anyone know what the Landrover R6 is?

Seems they already make a Merc 5-cyl adapter to got to the Landrover R6. Anyone got any ideas what they're talking about?

Tiico adapters page. (http://tiico.com/roveradapters.htm)

:confused:

what's this free crap i'm seeing... i got 2, count em' 2, pieces of cheese cake for that thing, and i still think i got the better end of the deal :flipoff2:

Just found this page...anyone know what the Landrover R6 is?

Seems they already make a Merc 5-cyl adapter to got to the Landrover R6. Anyone got any ideas what they're talking about?

Tiico adapters page. (http://tiico.com/roveradapters.htm)

:confused:

me too! I found the site looking for the tiico vw vanagon site last year or before...got me thinking about the ford engine..

wtf is a r6?
you europe or aussie guys? let us know...

Cheese cake? New York style?
MMMMMMMMM

Adaptor... Time and materials so far... should have a better idea soon..

I assume R6 means the conversion kit is to replace the notoriously complex, underpowered, gas guzzling ,oil and exhaust valve burning, F head (overhead inlet side exhaust valve) Landrover 6 cyl engine built mainly for export markets approx between 1966 to 1982. This horrible Dinosaur of an engine alone should have spelt the end of LandRover worldwide, without all the other stupid structural and mechanical faults that were built into the Series 3.
Bill.

What do you plan to put it in? I'm in the midst of a transplant now, and the initial measurements I have are not promising - At least for me. A IIa is a little short under the hood - at the very least the radiator needs to be pushed all the way to the very front of the rad support - so a bit of trimming there. If you change the fan or do some other mods, you might be able to get away with something there.

On the other end, the turbo dumps the exhaust really close the bulkhead. If you move the engine back, you can probably trim the bulkhead a bit and make it work, but if you're using an 88 you'll have to think about driveshaft length depending on the trans you use. If you use the stock series trans, you have to think about how long it will last. The td is 117 hp and 170 lb-ft torque and I've been told that's too much for the series trans - I don't have firsthand knowledge of it though.

My transplant is a bit stalled right now as I planned on using a 110 frame and realized after I got it home that it's much heavier than the series frame it would replace. I'm just not sure the merc engine will be big enough to haul all that around. So two issues then - what to do with the merc, and what engine to find for the 110. I think the merc is going to find it's way into another series truck I have and I'm going to have to find something more significant for the 110.

Take notes and pictures for me!

Mark

I'm thinking I want to put it into a LWB RRC. The power thing still has me curious...I'm not sure it's got enough oomph quite yet. I've got feelers out to see if I'm wrong.

what's this free crap i'm seeing... i got 2, count em' 2, pieces of cheese cake for that thing, and i still think i got the better end of the deal :flipoff2:

...yeah...you probably did. :D

There's a guy from Croatia who claims that they do the 5-cyl diesel conversion all the time.

Check this thread out from Outerlimits. (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=64625)

Still looking for some solid info...

Another thread with a dead-end. (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=53540&highlight=mercedes+diesel)

I compared the power/weight of the merc, the power/weight of my disco, the power/weight of what the 110/109 would be, and decided the merc would be far too weak, especially with bigger tires, sliders, etc. I figured the 4.0 has more power and torque than the merc and it's underpowered as it is. What struck me most though, was that the merc engine seems to have almost no low end power (seat of the pants driving). It seems good once you're up to speed though.

It does have a turbo though, so maybe you could boost that, and do some other tricks and see what you could get. My guess is that you would have to have a standard trans no matter what you do.

Fitting it into the RRC doesn't sound like it would be too much trouble - at least the size piece, not sure about connecting it to electronics etc.

Mark

On the other end, the turbo dumps the exhaust really close the bulkhead. If you move the engine back, you can probably trim the bulkhead a bit and make it work, but if you're using an 88 you'll have to think about driveshaft length


You can get a new/modified manifold made up to locate the turbo further forward. I have seen this with other diesels. If you can welod and have a tube bender could even give it a try yourself.

As far as the drive line, you can get some custom jointed shafts made up by Tom Wood or some of the board vendors. A well made shaft will eliminate any concerns with steep angles.

If you really aren't sure what to do with the 110 frame let me know :D

<<If you really aren't sure what to do with the 110 frame let me know>>

Oh, I'll use it! Just not sure in what capacity. It's so beefy and even though I want a diesel, I could probably put an american v8 and drivetrain in for very little investment.

I bought a 109 pickup off ebay that I was going to plow my driveway with, but the frame is swiss cheese. Thought about using for that.......

There's a guy from Croatia who claims that they do the 5-cyl diesel conversion all the time.


1: My borther-in-law is in Serbia right now, if you need him to stop by and visit and take pics, lemme know, he'll be returning soon.

2: Aren't free vehicles frighteningly similar to "free" pets?

If I'd known you had a 110 frame you didn't know what to do with, I probably had room for it!:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

On the other end, the turbo dumps the exhaust really close the bulkhead. If you move the engine back, you can probably trim the bulkhead a bit and make it work,

Can you turn the turbo around on the exhaust manifold and bring the exhaust down in front of an engine mount?
It'll take some plumbing, but trying to fit a cold air inlet against the bulkhead is a lot more comforting than a hot exhaust.

Was it the R6 that made landrover NA bolt a buick V8 into a series and ship it back to Solihull?

If indeed the conversion was designed for a six cylinder 2.6 litre (160 cu in) Landrover and you want to retain your Rover transmission you will have to source and fit the six cylinder bellhousing to the front of your gearbox casing as these have a different bolt pattern and locating diameter (register) where it enters the flywheel housing.


Bill.

KC has that same engine in his almost 6000 lb doka unimog. It'll go 70 on the highway with 42s. It's all about the gearing. You also have to remember those 80s benz weighed in over 2 tons. I don't think you are going to have a problem moving the rangie with it. Now it may not be all that fast but I'm sure it'll work. I know that KC has an extra unimog transmission sitting in his driveway (it was out of the mog we torched apart) maybe you can put that in the rangie :)

-ben

I can buy a 5cyl Merc cheap and I've thought about a RRC conversion. The adapter question is what I'm interested in. I already have an R380 out of a Disco...

What was asked in a previous thread without an answer is whether or not the ZF auto shared a common pattern with the R380. I don’t think so but it would be nice to get a picture of each of them from the engine side.

If you’ve got an R380 and want to go the manual-shift route you need not worry about an adapter as I make them. They are already successfully between a 4cyl Benz engine (616) and a Series transmission as well as between a 5cyl engine (617) and a R380. The Series tranny, LT77 and the R380 share an almost identical bolt pattern save a bolt here and there.

What you will have to worry about is a manual shift flywheel for the 617 as Mercedes never imported a manual 617 car to North America. There is also MUCH debate whether bolting a 616 manual flywheel to the back of a 617 will work as the 616 and 617 are balanced completely differently when they’re built. It has, however, been done many times as a popular conversion in the Benz world is to put a 240D 4-speed manual transmission in a 300D (that is as mentioned always an automatic in the US). Some say it works, some say it doesn’t. I have no first-hand knowledge but I would suspect a balance problem.

So we’re back to the question of whether a ZF and an R380 share a common pattern. I’m assuming most of you interested in this conversion will be running a ZF.

Oh, and whether 125 horsepower is enough to push a Rangie or Disco down the road and if the turbo lag these engines are known for are acceptable for off-road, low rpm driving. Also keep in mind that the weight isn’t going to be your biggest problem with this engine in a Rover…It’s the fact that these trucks have the aerodynamics of a building. Wind, by far is the limiting factory for my truck over the road. On the flats with no wind it will do 65 mph all day long whether empty or loaded heavy. Give me a 30 mph headwind and I can have trouble maintaining 50.

It runs!

Spent about 2 hours this afternoon futzing around with the car. Put a battery in it, had to learn about the manual fuel pump primer through the manual (thank heavens it was in the car), and got it started!

There are NO fuses or relays in the fusebox, but it started anyway with the key ignition. Interesting thing...the car did not turn off when I turned off the key and pulled it out. I had to use the little 'STOP' lever on the throttle linkage to get it to die. Luckily I remembered about that from when we had our 300TD wagon. :D

The transmission I believe must be electrical, because when I put it in gear it didn't move. I had to rev up the motor way high and the tranny finally kicked in a bit and the car actually moved under it's own power.

Motor revvs very good, sounds and feels smooth.

Plenty of oil/sludge/grime on the motor, typical diesel stuff I think.

I'm going to get some fuses tomorrow and see if the tranny will shift properly.

The front seat is a milk crate and a moving pad. Pics of the beast tomorrow...

Any ideas on the shifting and turning-off issues? Should I move this to 'Benz tech? :flipoff2:

Marc Olivares has a 300TD motor sitting in his garage. If I'm told what views and measurements would be needed, I can get over there and shoot some images very easily this week.

Crazy diesel sniffing bastidge. You will be sorry. You will rue the day. Welcome to the club. Lemme know when your wife starts turning up her nose and saying "but it stinks" when you suggest you take the diesel RR for that night out to dinner and a movie.

Simon

the car did not turn off when I turned off the key and pulled it out. I had to use the little 'STOP' lever on the throttle linkage to get it to die.

Vacuum leak back to the door locks. Yes, the door locks are vacuum. The same vacuum closes fuel to the injection pump. Typical with these old Benzes. If you're not going to keep the car don't worry about trying to track it down.

Simon,

We've been in and out of the club for several years now. Had a 300TD wagon in Portland, sold it and we bought her a TDI Passat last fall. Beautiful car...reminds me of the 300TD a bit.

Diesel-sniffer indeed! :flipoff2:

Vacuum leak back to the door locks. Yes, the door locks are vacuum. The same vacuum closes fuel to the injection pump. Typical with these old Benzes. If you're not going to keep the car don't worry about trying to track it down.

But what about turning it off? Just use the little lever? I did see two rubber hoses on the ignition lockset. Thought it was pretty interesting actually.

The door panels are off, so I might be able to track down the vaccum leak.

The entire dash is ripped out, so getting to stuff is easy...if it's there.

Engines without distributors (and breaker points) are bad enough, but engines without spark plugs are the devil's spawn!

you can reroute the vacume system to bypass everything but the engine to make it start and stop normal. I used an ARB solonoid to shut down my 240D. They plumb in real easy

i told you it ran, did you not believe?

check to make sure that the vaccuum module on the engine has all the hoses connected, that's where the merc slush box gets it's vaccuum to shift.

tell you wife i'm sorry....hopefully i wont be banned from your house.
you find the title yet?

you can reroute the vacume system to bypass everything but the engine to make it start and stop normal. I used an ARB solonoid to shut down my 240D. They plumb in real easy

hmm! at the arb solenoid price, it's better to just replace the mercedes switch i think..but it's a pita to get to if i recall teh talks about it...look on te mercedes diesel forums...it's such a pita that JoE who hs the same issus is talking about rigging a cable to inside(ie choke cable...) that you can pull to activate the lever on teh engine

I'll remember the ARB solenoid route. I have some 'spares' around.

I found the title, thanks.

I'm not sure what the vacuum thingie in the engine bay is supposed to look like, but I'll try to figger it out.

Any ideas on the transmission not working basically at all?

I use a simple air switch from McMaster car to shut mine down in the truck. As you're not going to put this car on the road I wouldn't worry too much about tracking it down. In any even, the vaccuum manifold looks just like it sounds...A plastic manifold with six or seven vacuum line leading to it. It should be just inboard of the brake booster. Ya know, every once in a while these engines will launch a vacuum pump. You might want to make sure you're producing vacuum first.

Ditto with the tranny, though it might be nice to take it for a spin to see how it runs on the road. The pre-'85 trannys were a little sketchy if they were'nt maintained well and if I remember correctly, they have a rear pump.

P.S. Did you see Audi won the Mobil-1 12 Hours of Sebring Saturday.....With a diesel!!!!!

24 Hours of Le Mans is next!

Wilsby brings on the tech!!!

Check this adapter stuff from Scandanavian Marine Trading. (http://www.smt.nu/default.asp?Expand=4&Display=2)

Those crafty Swede's have figgered it out already.

But, what I don't see is the adapter from the crank to the torque converter (maybe it's hidden in the Swedish text...).

Hmmmmm, seems like that part is already done. I wonder how they're getting along with the oil-pump issue.

It says everything included in the kit, including engine mounts and first piece of the exhaust. You figure out cableing and hoses, but no welding needed. Assuming manual, uses Benz clutch with slight mod. You need to notch the firewall to be able to remove the rocker cover. Engine mounted at a sligth slant.

Apparently your Swedish isn't as good as you claim. :D
It says on the site:

Kit includes:
-Adapter plate
-....

A friend of mine has that kit for a manual tranny. He bought it along with the motor from a guy in Nova Scotia that had it in a 110 but changed it out for a Perkins or something. "Slight slant" = about 15deg. for the oil pan to clear the front diff. Same old story.

I'd forgotten he had that. I have a bunch of pictures of it at home. I'll see if I can find them and post them up tonight.

Guess we know if the oil pan will clear in a coil-sprung or not.....

Yeah...I'm starting to get cold feet about this particular engine.

I wonder how the Swede's deal with the front axle/oil pump issue?

:confused:

Oh, and I never claimed my Swedish was very good...I just like the pickled Herring and furniture from Ikea (EEEE-kay-ah). :flipoff2:

I wonder how the Swede's deal with the front axle/oil pump issue?

By tilting bottom of the motor 15 degrees to the driver's side. I guess it works but it must look a little silly in there.

Salomon gundy.....mmmmmmmmm!

They say the slant is for the starter to fit in the bellhousing. They also claim there is plenty of room, not counting the firewall thing.

Slade, why don't you sound out the guys on slrk.org who have actual experience from these diesels?

Or just be a man and run a TD40 without a muffler.

I have not been involved in these things myselft, but SMT is definitely the authority here.

Slade, why don't you sound out the guys on slrk.org who have actual experience from these diesels?

I tried again today. The slrk.org site won't let me post *OR* respond.

Apparently my reputation precedes me. :shaking:

I tried again today. The slrk.org site won't let me post *OR* respond.

Apparently my reputation precedes me. :shaking:

New to the Internet, huh? :flipoff2:

I have created a thread for you under Rangerover -> Motor.

Now go read it. And figure out how to post. If you can't post, chances are you aren't registered. Did you get a reply mail, and did you act on it?

1. No

2. Thanks

3. Yes.

4. Yes.

:flipoff2:

OK! Now let's see what happens. It's bedtime here, so not likely too much in the next few hours. And the guys who have firsthand experience from engine swaps aren't necessarily material for English professors. Their English is probably still way ahead of your Swedish, though. :D

Here's what I get when I try to reply and/or quote a message:


» Welcome Michael Slade
[ Your Control Panel :: Log Out :: New Posts ]
SLRK Forum » Ikonboard Message



Ikonboard Message
Sorry, you do not have permission to reply to that topic

You are currently logged in as Michael Slade


Dunno whassup, but we'll see if you get any answers. :)

By tilting bottom of the motor 15 degrees to the driver's side. I guess it works but it must look a little silly in there.


Just tell people it's a slant 5

Here's a picture of the adapter my friend has. It's for a manual shift as you can see.

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/swedkit.jpg

Why isn't it in his truck?

He had a 110 that he bought off the British Military up in Happy Valley/Goose Bay. Drove it for a while, bought the kit from a guy out in Nova Scotia with plans on doing the conversion but sold the truck before he had a chance to do it. Far as I know he's still got the kit. I'll shoot off an email to him.

Here's what I get when I try to reply and/or quote a message:


» Welcome Michael Slade
[ Your Control Panel :: Log Out :: New Posts ]
SLRK Forum » Ikonboard Message



Ikonboard Message
Sorry, you do not have permission to reply to that topic

You are currently logged in as Michael Slade


Dunno whassup, but we'll see if you get any answers. :)

Mike,
at least you are registered. Your name is at the bottom of the page, welcoming you as the most recent member.

Try clicking "New Posts" and drill down to the actual post. You SHOULD be able to post then.

EDIT:
Just saw that you made it. Welcome to the Internet! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

What was asked in a previous thread without an answer is whether or not the ZF auto shared a common pattern with the R380. I don’t think so but it would be nice to get a picture of each of them from the engine side.

If you’ve got an R380 and want to go the manual-shift route you need not worry about an adapter as I make them. They are already successfully between a 4cyl Benz engine (616) and a Series transmission as well as between a 5cyl engine (617) and a R380. The Series tranny, LT77 and the R380 share an almost identical bolt pattern save a bolt here and there.

What you will have to worry about is a manual shift flywheel for the 617 as Mercedes never imported a manual 617 car to North America. There is also MUCH debate whether bolting a 616 manual flywheel to the back of a 617 will work as the 616 and 617 are balanced completely differently when they’re built. It has, however, been done many times as a popular conversion in the Benz world is to put a 240D 4-speed manual transmission in a 300D (that is as mentioned always an automatic in the US). Some say it works, some say it doesn’t. I have no first-hand knowledge but I would suspect a balance problem.

So we’re back to the question of whether a ZF and an R380 share a common pattern. I’m assuming most of you interested in this conversion will be running a ZF.


Do you want to know if the bolt pattern at the rear (t/case end) of both transmissions is identical ? If so the answer is yes. If it's the front you are concerned about Then I will check at work tomorrow.
Bill.

It's the front that Mike needs to know about Bill. Thanks for checking.

I don't mean to butt in, but, I'm very curious about this conversion. I have a 1985 benz 300sd that I love, but have been contemplating transplanting that diesel engine into a newer rover (preferably a disco). I commute too much and can't justify 12-18 mpg from the stock disco.

as for the power, you should be fine. my benz weighs about 4200 lbs, and will cruise at 80mph all day long. It won't win any drag races, but will get me around town nicely. Since they are a strictly mechanical engine, it is very common for them to be out of adjustment and not make their full power. There are some very simple adjusments that will bring back power, and economy. There are also some threads on turning up the injection pump for a noticable bump in power. visit the diesel forum at:
www.mercedesshop.com
great guys and very knowledgable.
I have 330,000 mi. on my Benz and it still runs strong. But I am very curious to find out how well that engine might fit into a newer Rover, and how it might match up to an existing rover tranny.

I think this guy is selling the Range Rover that has the conversion we REALLY want. (http://www.blocket.se/vi/7116991.htm?ca=11_s)

If it's an '86 Range Rover, would you have problems importing it???

I think this guy is selling the Range Rover that has the conversion we REALLY want. (http://www.blocket.se/vi/7116991.htm?ca=11_s)

If it's an '86 Range Rover, would you have problems importing it???

what teh hell is a td40?? don't rcall volvo having a four litre!????

I want one! :D

Yeah, there's all kinds of cool shiat we don't have any idea about.

Don't know what your import rules say, but the truck is well traveled. It started life in Saudi, and was brought to Sweden by a PO as tax exempt "luggage".

It's not grey market imports, you have to own the vehicle for a year in the contry where you're stationed, and then keep it for another year when you go home. After that you can sell it without tax implications.

He want's a grand, but I think this is one of the rare occasions when a Classic may actually be worth it. It says dull paintwork and some rust showing on rear tailgate, but mechanically first class. Has recently been regeared in the transfer (and rebuilt) to cruise at 60 mph á 1,850 rpms. 120 liters stainless tank - nice range for desert driving?

I think this guy is selling the Range Rover that has the conversion we REALLY want. (http://www.blocket.se/vi/7116991.htm?ca=11_s)

If it's an '86 Range Rover, would you have problems importing it???

It's the front that Mike needs to know about Bill. Thanks for checking.

Did a quick check today.( we were busy and time was too short to even have lunch)
A ZF V8 and a R380 V8 has the same bolt pattern, as they both bolt directly up to the block, but a ZF 300 tdi has a factory adaptor plate approx 1 inch thick, wheras the 300 manual has a flywheel housing about 2.5 inches thick.
The ZF to 300 tdi bell housing bolt pattern is a much larger diameter than that of the R380 to 300 tdi I didn't have time to measure it but it was approx 3.5 inches larger.
I hope this helps and if you wan't I could take some more accurate measurements as time permits .
Bill.

Bill,

Thanks for the info. We're finding out interesting things about the MBZ and where the turbo kicks in relative to shift points on the ZF.

IF the oil-pump thingie can be figured out, then it seems like everything ought to line up with the parts that can be easily found.

I'm falling in love with that Volvo conversion though, even though I have a free 300TD sitting in front of my house. :(

Mercedesrover,

I was wondering if you could email me some info on your adapters between the 240D and the Rover 4speed and an R380 (V8 version, if possible). I tore the 2.25P down today in the shop for a blown head gasket and crappy rings that never did seat properly. All in all, I would like to be done running this motor in my 88 and would LOVE to replace it with a diesel - I've always been fond of your conversion. I recently installed a rebuilt Suffix B SIII fully syncro tranny that would be nice if it wasn't for the troublesome 2.25. I also have an R380 in the Disco that I would like to remove one of these days to fit a rebuilt one (typical early R380 with 1st-2nd syncro issues - but I wouldn't complain in the Series), so that may also be an option for a 5 speed. To top it off I just found a 240D engine available locally with 150,000 miles for as cheap as it would cost me to get a new head gasket and rings.

PLEASE let me know as I may very well go this route. I'm not looking for a fast rover, just one that will give me better mileage and that I can run on biodiesel and WVO. At this point I'm prepared to make all the necessary mods to fit the 4 cyl diesel in.

Thanks so much Jim,
Ethan
ewmakaro@hotmail.com