Hello All!
New to the group and after some ideas….

Hears a brief spec of my latest project:

1969 SWB Series 2A
300 TDi Discovery engine
Rover SD1 LT77 gearbox matted to a Series transfercase
British Spring Company Parabolic Springs
Rear Salisbury Axle
LWB, twin leading shoe brakes + Defender servo

Because I’ve got selectable 4x4, I’m going to keep some nice big freewheeling hubs on the front axle but I’d really like to use some kind of auto locking setup. It’s a pain (and embarrassing) having to get out and lock the hubs manually… especially if I’ve had to drive onto a soft verge to avoid a shiny 4x4 who’s owner doesn’t want to get it muddy!

There are lots of 4x4s out there with auto locking hubs; does anybody make them for series axles? Are there any options for doing this with a self locking diff of some sort?

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I can’t find a ‘search’ bit on the forum??

Much appreciated! T

I've never seen auto FWHs on a series.

If the rig is going to be a weekend warrior/off road rig only, then do away with the hubs and get flanges. But if you plan on hitting the road a lot then the hubs are very nice.

If it makes you feel better, one of my hubs is busted and I have to use needle nose pliers to engage and disengage it :p .

Thor MAP/Fairey and others have made auto locking FWH. You're honestly embarassed to have to lock your manual locking hubs? Perhaps you shouldnt own an old land rover, because even more embarassing than getting out to lock your hubs will be getting out to push.

I haven't seen a auto hub worth a shat. Ford has used them with crappy results. Ford also used a vacuum actuated hub that was switched through an electric over vacuum solenoid triggered through the transfer case that worked until the vacuum lines broke.

One of my Scouts had auto hubs. I had one blowup, not sure if I neglected some sort of maintenance on them or what. There where roller bearings in some sort of cage and it all disentegrated. Started making noise and when I felt it the thing was hot as hell.
Replaced them with manual Warns.

Map Auto hubs were not designed for regular 4wd usage and as with most other brands the engagement were a bit hit and miss. Whatever hubs you end up with, note that it is not compulsory to run them in the unlocked position. You can lock them before you leave home to save your embarresment ???
The only brand of manual hub that I have not managed to blow up were the very early case hardened steel bodied Selectro brand . Like all Selectros these had crappy pot metal engaging cams that break but after making steel cams they have been totally reliable.
The worse hubs I ever used were the old manual MAPS that you operated with your wheelbrace socket. They used to slip and grab suddenly sometimes causing a front halfshaft to snap. These were only slightly worse than Warn hubs in which the ten spline drive member was adapted from early Jeep/Scout ones. Problem was the Landy axle shaft didn't go all the way through to drive against the thickest part of the drive member so all the drive was effectively tranmitted through a short piece of tube approx 1.4 inches
diameter and about 1/16'' thick. Broke far too many of those. AVM hubs weren't too bad but the engaging mechanisms would explode if an outer half shaft broke at an angle forcing the two halves apart. Fairey hubs werent bad either but many were destroyed by people including mechanics who didn't know how to dismantle and reassemble them. Are you certain you want freewheel hubs?


I am sorry to tell you that the SD1 gearbox would have to be the worse choice you could make. Surely in Britain you can find an R380 and LT230 tranfercase at a reasonable price?
The LT230 is easily converted to selective 4wd if that is what you want.
Bill.

Thanks for the replies!

Just to explain this “embarrassing” bit… this Landrover gets used to tow a horse trailer most of the time and often this entails going down narrow, single track lanes.

Scenario:
Towing horse trailer down lane, meet shiny 4x4 (driven by somebody who has moved to the country from the city and therefore must have a 4x4 as it’s THE thing to be seen driving) and they wouldn’t move over… after all, they have spend the weekend polishing it. I have to take to the soft, wet grass verge to pass them. So, ether I chance it in 2WD and possibly get stuck leading to the owner of the shiny 4x4 laughing at me and reassuring him/her self there 4x4 is obviously superior to my dinosaur of a Landrover. Or I have to get out and lock the free wheeling hubs manually… again there thinking theirs is obviously far superior… whist I’m trying to crawl though a hedge to reach the passenger side hub!

It would be so nice if they locked automatically and I just had to pop it into 4WD and show them what 4x4s are designed to do :)

I could of course leave them locked all the time… but at 94p per litter, nearly £4.30 per UK gallon, I need to save all the diesel I can!

I’ve managed to track down some new Fairy automatic locking freewheel hubs for £130…

Sounds like you need a Pajero with a trailer hitch.

Just thinking about this some more… got a question about Detroit lockers…

Hypothetical Setup:
Selectable 4WD Landrover; Detroit lockers in front and rear axles.


Now it’s my simple understanding (just been trying to Google this) that a Detroit locker works like a pair of ratchets on each half shaft. Each wheel can turn faster than the propshaft (forgetting diff ratio for now), but not slower.

So what happens to engine braking? How does the diff work in reverse gear? If you’re in 2WD, is the front propshaft still being motored?

These question arises because my understanding of Detroit locking diffs is seriously flawed so please bear with me!

Detroit Lockers Front and Rear, in Britain ? Do not go there, because they are also serously flawed. I could go into another of my long winded explainations as to how I formed this opinion, but suffice to say that after wasting AUS$3000 on 2 Salisbury detroits about 12 years ago I could only try to stay alive with them for about 2 years before relegating them to the scrapheap and installing selectable lockers.
Bill.

Bill,
Your expierience wih free wheel hubs is exactly the opposite of mine. I have found the Warn M-11s and MAPs to be far more durable than the AVMs and faireys. The metal bodied hubs have been much more reliable for me than the avms and faireys with their plastic internals. I know a lot of people that run the warns and MAPs with some healthy engines and have had good results. Ive broken a 30 spline inner shaft in my front salsbury and the warn m-11 hub held up fine.
-Ike

Bill,
Your expierience wih free wheel hubs is exactly the opposite of mine. I have found the Warn M-11s and MAPs to be far more durable than the AVMs and faireys. The metal bodied hubs have been much more reliable for me than the avms and faireys with their plastic internals. I know a lot of people that run the warns and MAPs with some healthy engines and have had good results. Ive broken a 30 spline inner shaft in my front salsbury and the warn m-11 hub held up fine.
-Ike

IKE, It is entirely possible that Warn improved their original design for LandRovers from the type I spoke of (Finned housing ,roller drives). but They are the only Warn hubs I have ever seen in Oz for Rovers before AVM,s (produced under Warn license)came on to the local market.
A broken inner halfshaft shouldn,t explode the engaging mechanism on any hub but a broken outer stub shaft, unless it broke clean ( very rare with tracta joints) always destroyed my AVM,s. as it wouldn't do any hub much good either. The only hubs I would run now are the early steel Selectro,s I mentioned , but they haven't been available for decades, and now that I have portals I dont use free wheel hubs at all in order to reduce the number of locations that oil can leak out from.
Bill.

I've got a MAP hub in bits... can I post a photo or two on the group to show how seriously engineered these ones are?

Also, can somebody help with the explanation of Detroit lockers? I’m sure it’s been covered countless times before… but there’s no search on the list?? Is this normal?

I've got a MAP hub in bits... can I post a photo or two on the group to show how seriously engineered these ones are?

Also, can somebody help with the explanation of Detroit lockers? I’m sure it’s been covered countless times before… but there’s no search on the list?? Is this normal?

The search function has been disabled for a few weeks now. Not sure if it is permanent for ordinary members or not.
There are those who could give a better description of how a Detroit works than me but I will try. The Detroit or No Spin consists of a dog toothed central drive member that is splined or pegged to the ring gear carrier .this drive member also has unlocking cam or ramp teeth concentric with the drive dog teeth. On each side of the central drive member is a dog toothed side gear by which the axle shafts are driven. both side gears engage via their dog teeth with the dog teeth on the central drive member . The side gears also have concentric unlocking cam or ramp teeth similar to the central drive member,but clearances are arranged so that only one side gear can be diengaged at any given time. Both wheels on the same axle are locked together when they are travelling at the same speed in a straight line. When cornering the outside wheel , which needs to travel further than the inside wheel disengages from the central drive member via the unlocking cam arrangement
and freewheels(undriven) until its speed slows down and matches that of the inside wheel whereby the dog toothed side gear re engages with the dog toothed central drive member. Theoretically no wheel can revolve slower than the ring gear but I have been in situations where I have lost traction and noticed that one front wheel was not driving. I'd reverse down the hill a little and try again and sometimes all would be good again. sometimes when descending steep treacherous off camber hills with uneven traction side to side, the detroits would mistakenly sense that I wanted to make a turn and would cam out(unlock) one front and one rear wheel, resulting in the truck making a horrific uncontrollable sideways descent. They are also sensitive to uneven tyre pressures causing the truck to pull one way or the other during accelleration or decelleration. It is also difficult to keep the vehicle under control on firm but slippery narrow forest or outback roads at higher speeds due to the unpredictable locking /unlocking nature.
With the various choices of selectable lockers available in Britain for Rovers their is no need to put up with all that crap.
Bill.

With the various choices of selectable lockers available in Britain for Rovers their is no need to put up with all that crap.
Bill.

Except for cost. :grinpimp:

Where oh where did you find an LT77 to Series t-box adapter? Is this an old Ashcroft's unit or is somebody making them again ? Please do tell. Pics of the 300 TDI in the SWB also most welcome!

Detroits fron and rear on stadard Rover axles ? It would add a lot of weight to your rig.








Say 12/15 lbs for the rear halfshafts and 18/20 lbs for the front with u-joints and stubs. That means roughly 280lbs of halfshaft that you would have to carry for @ every 10km you plan to travel. Bit pricey too:laughing:


With the 300TDI in there you might be a bit too torquey to risk it, but I had a rear Trutrac LSD in my 88" and liked it. I think that's the most traction aid you should consider on 10 spline half shafts....

Sounds like you need a Pajero with a trailer hitch.

Ewww.:mad3:

I thought all yanks would know them as "Monterey", since the spanish know pajero as something quite different.