Anyone run after market (non O.E.M) replacement fuel injectors
in their vehicle. If so, do they work OK or have they been a
problem? (After market at autozone is $42, toyota wants $160 each and I likely need 4).

Before it starts, please spare the "you get want you pay for"
comments and respond with real data or intelligent speculation.

Thanks,

TF Senior

Have you considered having your existing injectors cleaned and balanced? I haven't done this myself, but I do know of several people that have, with excellent results. Great place to send them is RC Engineering, in Torrence CA: http://www.rceng.com/

I just recenlty had mine done, and all I can say is DON'T GO WITH NON TOYOTA!

You'd be better off getting a pair of used toyota injectors and cleaning them than going with another brand.

The reason I say this is that the toyota injectors are the closest matched from the factory than almost any other car manufacturer out there. That's why when people get them ultrasonically cleaned they come back looking like they've been "balanced and blueprinted", the truth is you can't adjust and injector, only clean it.

I actually have a pair of 85 celica injectors I could sell to you, cleaning them wouldn't be a bad idea ($25 an injector). The cool part is that you get all new o-rings, and grommets when you send them to get cleaned, which alone from the dealership are like $70. So cleaning them becomes much more price effective, since you should replace all those things anyway.

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Oh yeah let's say $50 plus shipping.


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You can call Tim at DOA or the guys at LC Engineering and get rebuilt injectors for under $200. I cant remember the exact price...but you can find it on there web pages.

You could also get them from Downey for a lot less! What type of injectors do you need? i got a set of "type F" 200cc/min injectors out of a 87 Corolla GT-S that should just drop in your fuel rail,they did'nt work for me because I need 250 cc/min but if they'll work for you i'll let you have them for free,you'll need to have them cleaned though.Take a look in this page,you might be able to find your injector in another Toy.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9975/dataBySubject/Injectors.html

What is the matter with your current injectors?? Missing, Physical damage or is this to do with your driveability problems you have been having. I would just go with used Factory injectors and have them serviced. On my recent rebuild of a Milkshaked and seized 22RE I got the injectors serviced - $12 a injector and spent another $25 on new O-Rings, grommets and insulators. The Toyota injectors are basically a Bosch design, so I cannot see why quality aftermarket injectors would be a bad idea as well. I have a spare housing in the basement with the injectors you could have for free, but the shipping from my igloo is going to kill you.:D

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have a "closed Loop" miss when the throttle is held steady. When I accelerate or deaccelerate, no miss---the computer is running "open loop" and goes full rich with the mixture. Also when I disconnect the O2, which by the way puts it in "open loop" mode, it runs fine with no
miss. I'm reading the O2 with a meter so I see what it's telling the computer.

Last week I took my injectors out and had them cleaned and flowed at Napa in Sacramento. They said they tested good and after cleaning increase flow on 1 by 6%, two others by 3%, and the last 0% improvement. That didn't solve the problem.

Anyway, to make a long story short I changed just about every sensor the computer reads at least once as well as the computer and cleaned and tightened every harness contact.

My buddy who is an ASE certified mechanic helped me diagnose several possible cause (with no luck yet) as well as parking a good running 4-runner next to mine and swapping many parts one by one.

So basically since every part was changed at least once and all parts were run against the FSM procedure with the ones that looked the least bit suspicious changed, this leaves us to the injectors again.

My buddy brought up an expensive fuel system and injector tester computer setup on friday and he ran thru an number of non running tests to the engine. He found nothing blatantly wrong but the computer did show that the injector flow was ~1.9 instead of the 2.0 (or 2.1) that they should be.

So could this lean miss be caused by a weak injector? That is
still the best theory right now that's why I posted the question on injectors. I haven't swapped injector yet only cleaned them.

I just hand cleaned a set or 4 used injectors from a buddies spare EFI housing and am about to try them to see if the problem symptoms change.

Thanks for your suggestions.

TF Senior

sorry I have no help for u, but I think u will be the expert to talk to when u r all done!

Have you checked the fuel pressure Regulator and the return hose to the tank? Methinks that a non operative/Intermittent pressure reg. or a blocked return line could cause you these problems as well due to resonances in the fuel rail. You have checked your codes so that rules out anything being blatantly wrong with the electronics. It could be what is called an "accumulation of production tolerances" where each sensor is fine when tested by itself, but when all of the tolerances are added up the system exceeds the tolerances. You have changed all of the sensors with ones off of a good running truck, so that probably rules the accumulation theory out. When you tested your sensors did they all tend to read to the high or low part of the operative limits? The TPS is functioning properly at a steady state??

JasonMT:

I don't recall what all the sensor readings were so I don't know if they were all skewed high or low. I did find an out of spec Start Injector Time Switch and replaced it. I now have fast idle when started up cold which I never had before.

As for the TPS, the one installed check out within range and it had been changed before. Just yesterday I tried 2 others by just unplugging the connector and plugging them in then operating the TPS by hand as I changes the throttle position---no difference.

I just stopped to eat lunch and check the board. I'm about to turn the key to check the replaced injectors. While I pulled it apart,
I changed fuel rails so now I'm trying a different regulator, dampner, and 4 injectors. Wish me luck.

TF

good luck!

Sent you a PM Nick

Let us know how it's going!

Still does it. Unless anybody has any brilliant ideas, I'm giving up and taking it to the dealer to figure out.

"Have you checked the fuel pressure Regulator and the return hose to the tank?"

Did U check that?

I changed both the fuel pressure regulator, dampener, and fuel rail when I swapped in 4 used injectors today. No difference

The return hose is clear.

Good suggestion. Anyone got anymore?

Originally posted by ToyFamily
I changed both the fuel pressure regulator, dampener, and fuel rail when I swapped in 4 used injectors today. No difference

The return hose is clear.

Good suggestion. Anyone got anymore?

That was jasonmt suggestion from above;) what about fuel pressure, is it high enough?

Sorry I can't remember your other thread, did U check all the Ingnition system, plugs wires, igniter, distributor?

Yep, igniter, distributor, etc was all checked and changed before I figured out it was fuel/ECU related by disconnecting the O2 and seeing it runs fine in "open loop" mode.

Before you ask, the O2 is new but I also tried another one of off a good running 4-Runner.

Originally posted by ToyFamily
Yep, igniter, distributor, etc was all checked and changed before I figured out it was fuel/ECU related by disconnecting the O2 and seeing it runs fine in "open loop" mode.

Before you ask, the O2 is new but I also tried another one of off a good running 4-Runner.
Well Damn! when u do fix it U have to tell us!

One last suggestion - Knock Sensor??. You have said it is a closed loop problem, so I would hazard a guess that if it not mechanical, it would be a sensor that affects the closed loop operation (patently stating the obivious):confused:

Back to one SeaBass mentioned...did you check your fuel pressure to make sure the fuel pump is putting out enough psi and flow?

Pull the ECR fuse, pull the connections on the ECU, clean, and reconnect, then replace the fuse.

Also, if you have a EGR, pull the SMALL hose to the EGR, and plug it.

These two things together fixed a condition on mine which sounds similar to yours.

Dont put ANY aftermarket injectors. Local Toyota shop told me they see this a lot - they will use ONLY Toy injectors, even old ones cleaned are better than the aftermarket.

I have a fuel rail off a Mazda 323 1.6L and I swear that the injectors are the same as in the toyota...the elect. plug is even the same...when I get a few minuets I will match them up...I would'nt know if they are of the same flow but if by some chance they are there is a local yard with several efis sitting with motors pretty much all there... I tested these for backups on my sons car and they work like new...anyone else know anything on this???:D

Well I matched these up and they are identical in all aspects except for the part #...both will interchange with each other in my 85 rail...the only thing is I need to know is if the flow is the same...:D

Well now I need to try an EFI engine harness. Roseville Toyota was able to affect the problem by twisting the piss out of the EFI harness where it loops from the EFI intake to the firewall. The mechanic and I peeled open the harness there and there are some splices (several 1 wire to 2 wire, One 2 wire to 4 wire) that when opened up to bare wire were extremely corroded and shitty. The mechanic said to change the harness because he is not sure how many other splices are corroded or frayed.

At home, I opened up about 8 inches of the harness in that area, cut out the bad splices, and re-spliced then soldered each. There were several in that area and they all were badly corroded. Feeling pretty confident that this was the problem, I started up the engine only to find that the miss is still there. As the mechanic
said, he could fix one or 2 splices but there was no way to know if more were corroded and high resistance.

So I'm looking for a good EFI harness to either purchase for cheap or borrow to at least isolate the problem to the Harness.
I listed an ad in the wanted section for one. If anyone has one or knows someone that does let me know. You don't want to know what Toyota is asking for them new.

BTW, many other things were checked on the diagnostic machine and nothing conclusive besides this was found. They were able to determine that I had a lean miss also.

Originally posted by ToyFamily
You don't want to know what Toyota is asking for them new.
:rolleyes: yes we do

btt

not that alot of this will help alot, but on this web page there is a chart for cross referacing injectors by #, color, etc.. i cant tell you how many times this has saved the day

http://volvo.alvarogil.com/EFI/FuelFlow.html

Hey I have the efi harness out of a Celica that I got the complete unit from....I had to cut it and have not made it back to the yard to get the rest of it...yea dumb of me I should have pulled it all through the firewall....you can borrow it if you want if it will help...

5Spd,

Is the Celica EFI harness the same as a 4-Runner? Is the one you have cut or intact from engine to Computer?

TF Senior

I sent ya a pm with my #...I had cut it at the firewall as I was being dumb that day....It all looks like the same as my 4runner and fits all the right parts....drop by anytime after 6pm and look at it if ya want.....I will pop my hood and you can see it...I am going back to the yard sunday if I can make it and grab the rest of the harness to the computer.....I am not sure what it looks like at that end as I did not bother to look under the dash that day...

Junk Yard in Marysvill has a celica with a 22re, looked intact, trans gone, u could pull the harness. if u want it I'll find out the name and # of the place. email me if u want it. place is pretty cheap too:)

I had heard the Celica harness is wired different even though it looks the same. Does anyone know for sure?

I just took the one I have out to my truck and it all looks the same except for one connector that is not used one the top side...I still do not know what the end that I cut off looks like though...I have a feeling it will not plug into the 4runner computer..

Here's a harness for sale:

http://www.colorado4x4.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000625

Well my truck is 80% better. I had multiple problems exibiting similiar symptoms. That's why it's been such a b!tch to troubleshoot.

Here is a brief description of the problems found so far.
1. Corroded splice joints inside harness on several 1-to-2 wire connections including the injector wires which were probably the worst.
- I striped the sheat of the entire harness and re-spliced and soldered all connections.

2. Insufficient ground from computer to EFI manifold. Turns out this was a service advisory for Mid-80 EFI toyotas where the ground path would gain resistance or open from the 3 ground pins on the computer to the bolt-on lug on the EFI manifold.
- The fix was to scotch tack an additional wire from the computer ground to the EFI mainifold
- I soldered 2 additional wires in my harness.
- By doing #1 and #2 alone, it improved my situation by at least 50%.

3. The new aftermarket 5 month old O2 sensor I bought didn't response correctly and athough it's voltage signal to the computer was about mid-range it wasn't fluctuating as it should.
- Exchanged it at AutoZone for a new one and got about 80% of my problem to go away now.
- I borrowed a factory O2 sensor from a friend but couldn't try it since it's too long for my manifold and bottoms out before the O2 bolt flanges reach the manifold. This says I don't have an 85 EFI manifold which might be the rest of my problem.

You guys wanted to know so here it is. Now I need to figure out what year/type of manifold I have and find the correct 85 EFI manifold and try it with a factory O2. Anyone got an 85 EFI manifold they want to get rid of?

TF Senior

There is that 85 celica manifold off the 22re at the chico self serve yard...it is identical to mine...I nabbed the 02 off it a month back but 2 weeks ago it was still there...

Thanks 5Spd, I consider that but I'm trying to find one soon and close to Rocklin so I can try it on Sunday.

No problem..I though you were up here working on it all this time...:smokin: