Crunched some numbers and this is what I came up with. I put everyone in a spreadsheet and then rated them 1-10 (10 being best) in several diffrent cat. Then weighted them and added up the scores. Scores are listed. Anyone else have any guesses?

1st: 67 - Barry Toledano, Frog 84.2
2nd: 13 - Tim Dzaman, '72 Landcruiser 81.9
3rd: 7 - Robert Bryce, '83 Chevy Blazer 81.5
4th: 31 - Scott Godfrey, Raptor 1001 80.3
5th: 12 - Jerry Cantrell, '56 CJ-3A 79.6
6th: 54 - John Reynolds, Fat City Bronco 79.2
7th: 25 - Cory Dean, '85 Chevy K20 76
8th: 53 - Abelardo Ramirez, 78 IH Scout 73.8
9th: 28 - Jess Haines, '86 Toyota Pickup 72.1
10th: 48 - Matthew Parkes, 66 Landcruiser 68.8

Well I guess I didn't figure in the actual competitions, just on the equipment they listed. To include each competition would be better but almost too much work. I figured driver expirence in too.

I'm thinking you have some very capable rigs . Driver error could determine the winner.
If I had to pick what I think will be the top three I would have to go with

#13- I've wheeled with many a time and know what he can do- watch out :D
#67 - intrigues me
#54- specs and look impress me

....but there are others in there that could definately take those spots.

As far as I'm concerned driver experience will play a key role in this competition

*edit* Not long and fat, just phat. My bad.

1st: 12 - Jerry Cantrell, '56 CJ-3A. Honestly I could care less though, they don't place enough emphasis on rockcrawling in my opinion. Giving points for "show and shine" is pretty lame too.

WOLF359 all the wayyyyyy. Check out his site, all he does is wheel in terrain EXACTLY like what's at top truck. Hey wolf, if you read this, you need nitrous, seriously. a 200 shot for the mud pit, and the dump truck pull will really help out. you should still have time to get it done.

plus, it's a cruiser, it has to win.

Originally posted by Weasel
I was suprised 54 placed as high as it did. That thing just looks to long and fat, but we'll see.

Were you thinking of somthing more like this ?

Well, I see a problem with your calculations. How does possibly the weakest vehicle in the field finish #7? That thing probably also has less ground clearance than anyone, least articulation, could be the heaviest vehicle, and has one of the highest crawl ratios.

Then you say you think #54 is just long and fat and you are suprised it finished #6 in your rankings? I think you might want to do a little more homework on this.

Curious how the frog could finish so far ahead of the Fat City bronco? The Bronco is obviously professionally built, where as the frog looks capable but not nearly as engineered as the Bronco. All i'm saying is 42's + well over 400HP + Coilover suspension + portal axles! + light weight = a lot better then 6th if just based on equipment.

Unfortunatly you can't calculate the most important factor and that is driver skill.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy
[B]Curious how the frog could finish so far ahead of the Fat City bronco? The Bronco is obviously professionally built, where as the frog looks capable but not nearly as engineered as the Bronco. All i'm saying is 42's + well over 400HP + Coilover suspension + portal axles! + light weight = a lot better then 6th if just based on equipment.

No way man! That thing is just long and fat! He'll probably get last.:rolleyes:

There are SOOOOOoooooooooo many 'opinion-based' scores that rest entirely on the judges' own standards (Show and Shine, Engineering Point, Driving Style). Also a 'bad day' competing can wipe out a team's scores, and order-of-competition (luck of the draw) makes a HUGE difference (how tore up the twister is, seeing preceding competitors' lines, etc.) And don't get me started on whether advertising in the print mags works FOR you (judges give a bit extra to those who advertise) or against you (judges try to be EXTRA fair so that nobody complains about favoring vendor-spenders). And of course... the topper: FourWheeelr NEVER publishes the exact weighting for the individual events, and they seem to change each year.

Predicting is impossible. If ya wanna have some fun, let's predict who's gonna break what.
* If the big Scout hits the full nitrous when he launches on the 1/8-mile, I foresee shrapnel in the rearend... there's a reason why dragracers don't use 60's.
* I'm expecting the longbed Toyota to break/bend at least one link hammering through Tank Trap or Twister... they hang so low!
* The rockwell-buggied Frog seems destined to show us the failure point of a 2.5 ton axle/u-joint

Randii

Its not a longbed.

I don't think I will bend a 4-link bar in the frame twister or tank trap. I think it will happen on the mini rubicon.:D

Originally posted by NE-RokToy

Unfortunatly you can't calculate the most important factor and that is driver skill.

I’m still waiting for Fat City to send me the owner’s manual.
Hopefully it will tell me what all these freakin levers do.


:eek::D

Originally posted by JR


I’m still waiting for Fat City to send me the owner’s manual.
Hopefully it will tell me what all these freakin levers do.


:eek:

You see those two switches, What ever you do, don't use the MIDDLE one!!!:nuke:

The rockwell-buggied Frog seems destined to show us the failure point of a 2.5 ton axle/u-joint

I heard that! You just know Frog's not toting that thing all the way from Israel, by AIR to drive catiously!

Top 3 (based purely on emotion) are Wolf, JR, and Frog.

JR - you remember "Animal House"...you just need to figure out and label 1 lever......."Ramming Speed!!" :D

Think what you want but I'm going to win and I'm not even in the comp ;)

Umm, four wheeler says it has a rear 9" if I'm reading it right. And maybe it's just the picture but it looks long and fat to me. Damn, chill guys, just having some fun. People do the number thing for NBA, NCAA, MLB, NHL, NFL, so why can't I do it for this. So to all ya'll that don't like it. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Ok, here what I did. Rated the engine first. Biggest got the 10 then down from there.
Trannys: SM465 first then, TH400, C6, TH350
T-case: Atlas first, double t-case next, then single
Gear Ratio: Lowest first then down ward
Axles front and rear seperate: Rockwell or Unimog first, D70, D60, etc.
Lockers: Spool first, Detroits, ARB or Cable, etc
Tires: Boggers, Swampers, Dick Cepek
Tires size: Biggest to smallest
Beadlocks: Yes or no
Lift: Coilover or leafs
Drivers Expirence: Most years got 10 and downward
I also though in body size though it only counded for ten percent of score. The scout is not listed as having NO2 in the mag. If the bronco is normal size I can change that. Each part was weighted too. Here's the weights:
Body - 10%
Engine - 30%
Front Axle - 80%
Rear Axle - 80%
Tranny - 80%
T-Case -80%
Gear Ratio - 60%
Tire Brand - 60%
Tire Size - 50%
Lift - 50%
Front Locker - 80%
Rear Locker - 80%
Beadlocks - 80%
Driver Expirence - 100%

What you all think?:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by randii
There are SOOOOOoooooooooo many 'opinion-based' scores that rest entirely on the judges' own standards (Show and Shine, Engineering Point, Driving Style). Also a 'bad day' competing can wipe out a team's scores, and order-of-competition (luck of the draw) makes a HUGE difference (how tore up the twister is, seeing preceding competitors' lines, etc.) And don't get me started on whether advertising in the print mags works FOR you (judges give a bit extra to those who advertise) or against you (judges try to be EXTRA fair so that nobody complains about favoring vendor-spenders). And of course... the topper: FourWheeelr NEVER publishes the exact weighting for the individual events, and they seem to change each year.

Predicting is impossible. If ya wanna have some fun, let's predict who's gonna break what.
* If the big Scout hits the full nitrous when he launches on the 1/8-mile, I foresee shrapnel in the rearend... there's a reason why dragracers don't use 60's.
* I'm expecting the longbed Toyota to break/bend at least one link hammering through Tank Trap or Twister... they hang so low!
* The rockwell-buggied Frog seems destined to show us the failure point of a 2.5 ton axle/u-joint

Randii I just pulled my N2O off before Moab. It was'nt because of a 60 or 70 failure. It was the tranny broken in 5 pieces, 12 hours before I left for Moab that did it!!
But I WILL have to go SCOUT all the way forr TTC!! :)

Originally posted by Weasel
Umm, four wheeler says it has a rear 9" if I'm reading it right. And maybe it's just the picture but it looks long and fat to me. Damn, chill guys, just having some fun. People do the number thing for NBA, NCAA, MLB, NHL, NFL, so why can't I do it for this. So to all ya'll that don't like it. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Ok, here what I did. Rated the engine first. Biggest got the 10 then down from there.
Trannys: SM465 first then, TH400, C6, TH350
T-case: Atlas first, double t-case next, then single
Gear Ratio: Lowest first then down ward
Axles front and rear seperate: Rockwell or Unimog first, D70, D60, etc.
Lockers: Spool first, Detroits, ARB or Cable, etc
Tires: Boggers, Swampers, Dick Cepek
Tires size: Biggest to smallest
Beadlocks: Yes or no
Lift: Coilover or leafs
Drivers Expirence: Most years got 10 and downward
I also though in body size though it only counded for ten percent of score. The scout is not listed as having NO2 in the mag. If the bronco is normal size I can change that. Each part was weighted too. Here's the weights:
Body - 10%
Engine - 30%
Front Axle - 80%
Rear Axle - 80%
Tranny - 80%
T-Case -80%
Gear Ratio - 60%
Tire Brand - 60%
Tire Size - 50%
Lift - 50%
Front Locker - 80%
Rear Locker - 80%
Beadlocks - 80%
Driver Expirence - 100%

What you all think?:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I think you have way too much free time.

Actually we have to do these things (Decision Matrix) for all out engineering decisions we make so it's good practice. It only took 20 min.

Originally posted by Weasel
I was suprised 54 placed as high as it did. That thing just looks to long and fat, but we'll see.

I got to looking at the Bronco again--and I dont think it's so long...:D

Okay, here's my $0.23 worth :flipoff2:

Your first mistake is going off what the mag says the equip is on all of these rigs. You don't think people are going to change parts and pieces without saying anything in public to try and get as much upper hand as they can? Of course they are ;)

Driver experience can be a bit misleading when that gets factored into the equation. Mike Ladd is going to spot for Abba. Mike came in second a few years back. Talk about experience.

On the other things:

Trannys: SM465 first then, TH400, C6, TH350
That sounds about right to me

T-case: Atlas first, double t-case next, then single
I don't think one Atlas is better than a 203/205 doubler. Perhaps it's equal, but not really better.

Gear Ratio: Lowest first then down ward
Yeah, but you could have too much gearing like #7. I mean 7.56 gears?

Axles front and rear seperate: Rockwell or Unimog first, D70, D60, etc.
Unimog? Just too many moving parts in the portals for my liking.

Lockers: Spool first, Detroits, ARB or Cable, etc
Tires: Boggers, Swampers, Dick Cepek
Tires size: Biggest to smallest
Beadlocks: Yes or no
Simple enough :)

Lift: Coilover or leafs
Isn't one of them just plain old coils? Like the cruiser?

Drivers Expirence: Most years got 10 and downward
see above

I also though in body size though it only counded for ten percent of score. The scout is not listed as having NO2 in the mag. If the bronco is normal size I can change that.
This makes sense. I admit Abba will have a hard time cause of the body weight, BUT kick in that 454 and, well and, get it. As long as nothing breaks ;) the weight is negated, IMO. Otherwise, I think you weighted them good enough.

Also, I think people miss a big part of the comp, which is the streetability part. Sure these parts of the comp make up smaller parts of the overall score, but they are still there. If one rig rips it up in some categories while it sucks ball juice in others it will finish lower in the standings than a rig that can win a couple of categories and do solidly in all the other ones. It's alot of variables

Good post to get some discussion going :D :D :D

Oh yeah. Who do I think is going to win? I have to idea, but I'm going to help Abba as much as I can and be there to do what I can to help him win it ;) :D

Wow. On paper I did pretty good in this poll.

Originally posted by Curtis
[B]
Your first mistake is going off what the mag says the equip is on all of these rigs. You don't think people are going to change parts and pieces without saying anything in public to try and get as much upper hand as they can? Of course they are ;)

I listed everything on the truck in the mag.... I did mention the 200 hp nitrous, the coilovers and the tube frame rear didn't I?

oops... ;)

Tim.

Originally posted by WOLF359
Wow. On paper I did pretty good in this poll.



I listed everything on the truck in the mag.... I did mention the 200 hp nitrous, the coilovers and the tube frame rear didn't I?

oops... ;)

Tim.


bwhahaha

Originally posted by randii

* If the big Scout hits the full nitrous when he launches on the 1/8-mile, I foresee shrapnel in the rearend... there's a reason why dragracers don't use 60's.


Randii

Yeah, there is a reason, but not that it is weaker than a ford 9":rolleyes: , which is what a lot of them use, it is because it doesn't have a removeable third member.

And even with that handicap, there are some drag racers who still prefer the 60. Just take a look at the summit catalog and see their offerings for 60 ring &pinions for dragsters, and all of the neat shit Strange makes for a 60 rear............there is a reason why dragracers USE 60's.

Updated results
67 Barry Toledano 85.5 1st
13 Tim Dzaman 83.3 2nd
31 Scott Gdfrey 81.6 3rd
12 Jerry Cantrell 81.1 4th
7 Robert Bryce 79.5 5th
54 John Reynolds 78.6 6th
25 Corey Dean 76.6 7th
53 Abelardo Ramirez 73.7 8th
28 Jesse Haines 72.6 9th
48 Matthew Parks 70.5 10th

54 still scored low cause it's got smaller tires and the 9" rear really hurt it in the scoring. There's is alot of stuff that can't be number as already mention but can't wait to see what really happens.

So what would you score a unimog axle under? A D60?
I made the Atlas 4.3 and 203/205 equal. Also changed the gear ratio a bit.

I'll wait till I hear everybody finish talkin shite.
Then... The guy who never said a thing...

That's the winner! :D

Originally posted by Weasel
I was suprised 54 placed as high as it did. That thing just looks to long and fat, but we'll see.

Yeah John, you realy need to narrow that thing about a foot or so and shorten it up too. And while your at it, why dont you do something about that crappy ground clearance!

Yo Kev, great hammering with you guys this weekend!

Originally posted by Ramstein


Yeah John, you realy need to narrow that thing about a foot or so and shorten it up too. And while your at it, why dont you do something about that crappy ground clearance!

That how it looked in the pic so :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:.

And JR, thats the pic I saw. haha

Originally posted by mudtruck44
Its not a longbed.

I don't think I will bend a 4-link bar in the frame twister or tank trap. I think it will happen on the mini rubicon.:D

Make a complete set of lower links for trail spares....problem solved.

Shaker, I just thought the same thing last night. I already have a entire set of extra links and they are easy to replace so I'm not worried. I will call you some time and get your ideas on what else I should do to prepare.

At the (minor) risk of providing "unfair advantage" to the readers of this thread....

Beef your driveshafts! I'm not talking about big joints or big tube (sorry Jess, I realize there's a normal way and an abnormal one--this one's abnormal), I'm talking thick walls. I wouldn't *go* to TTC with less than 0.188 wall driveshafts. I *drove* on mine in the Frame Twister, watched Robin Hood mangle his (on 44's, no less) on the Mini Rubicon, and having seen stuff like that, well... you can all figure out why I'm running my own 1/4" wall driveshafts on the current project truck. I personally swapped mine from normal to burly after the Car-n-Driver style events, just before the 'wheeling events, but I've never swapped it back to a normal one... the Mantis has never *had* normal driveshafts hooked to the 9" or the 60.

Oh... a few other suggestions...

Waterproof waterproof waterproof. Especially for the mud pit.

Mudtruk44, having spare parts will help. Not needing them will help more... if you have spare links, great... but there's not enough time in any of the events, to change a bent one and still compete in that event. If they bend, but you make it through, you've got (a little) time to change 'em between events... but you're better off not having to change 'em at all. I know, I'm preaching to the choir here, but trust me on this one.

The test I used to know if the undercarriage was strong enough, was basically this: Can I floorjack the truck off the ground, on anything I can hit with the jack? If I couldn't, I beefed whatever I couldn't jack on, till I could lift the truck by *anything* underneath. The Four Wheeler course builders are sadistic--carnage sells magazines. If it's under there, *expect* that they'll build something that'll smack it.

Spare parts to carry:
Axles (of course)
Driveshafts
U-joints
Starter (or two)
Steering linkage (didn't see much steering damage last year, but I'll bet they "improve" upon that this year)
Wheel(s)/tire(s)
Alternator (added in--good point, Morpheus--I didn't see issues last year, but there've been plenty in past years)
Anything specialty that you have and nobody else does.

One other suggestion for quick-n-easy semi-waterproofing... get a Ford distributor condom. Go down to the dealership, it's about $12 brand-new, and tell 'em you need the rubber cover for an '87 Crown Vic distributor. Makes an excellent splashguard for stuff like the Frame Twister.

Yeah, after the TTC two years back where almost everyone broke a driveshaft and two or three competitors dropped out because they didn't have more than one spare... I'd say Scott's advice is well-said.

hey Scott, you have any problems with your alternator. i know from reading/watching the past TTC's that something about the silt in the mud/water eats them up it seems ...

- jack

Originally posted by morpheus
hey Scott, you have any problems with your alternator. i know from reading/watching the past TTC's that something about the silt in the mud/water eats them up it seems ...

I didn't have any issues with mine. Not to say that nobody ever does, but I didn't see any issues last year. That said, good point, I may just go back and edit alternator into my list of "should bring" spare parts... :)

Originally posted by Weasel
Umm, four wheeler says it has a rear 9" if I'm reading it right. And maybe it's just the picture but it looks long and fat to me. Damn, chill guys, just having some fun. People do the number thing for NBA, NCAA, MLB, NHL, NFL, so why can't I do it for this. So to all ya'll that don't like it. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Ok, here what I did. Rated the engine first. Biggest got the 10 then down from there.
Trannys: SM465 first then, TH400, C6, TH350
T-case: Atlas first, double t-case next, then single
Gear Ratio: Lowest first then down ward
Axles front and rear seperate: Rockwell or Unimog first, D70, D60, etc.
Lockers: Spool first, Detroits, ARB or Cable, etc
Tires: Boggers, Swampers, Dick Cepek
Tires size: Biggest to smallest
Beadlocks: Yes or no
Lift: Coilover or leafs
Drivers Expirence: Most years got 10 and downward
I also though in body size though it only counded for ten percent of score. The scout is not listed as having NO2 in the mag. If the bronco is normal size I can change that. Each part was weighted too. Here's the weights:
Body - 10%
Engine - 30%
Front Axle - 80%
Rear Axle - 80%
Tranny - 80%
T-Case -80%
Gear Ratio - 60%
Tire Brand - 60%
Tire Size - 50%
Lift - 50%
Front Locker - 80%
Rear Locker - 80%
Beadlocks - 80%
Driver Expirence - 100%

What you all think?:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I think you have alot of spare time on your hands! :D Keep it up... :beer:

When I went in 99 I was worried about the Mule, yellow TLC, Humm Raider and the TJ. My turd EB came out 2nd... no one would have calculated that....

Another thing is drivability.... If you cant take it camping or just go for a day outing they ding you points......

If your rig holds together and you can drive it you can win... equiptment doesnt as much as you think. LUCK has alot to do with it

Mike-

Does anybody have a wetsuit I could borrow! :confused:

Originally posted by Snowball
LUCK has alot to do with it


My thoughts exactly. IMHO, this year's crop of contestants is very strong. Personally, so long as I don't break (or the truck, for that matter!), and drive so I'm happy with my performance, I'll be happy regardless of how I place. :)

Hulk isn't going to see many mod's before the event. Mind you, Four Wheeler didn't list all the spec's I sent in. Like that decent stereo system, or the Ford minivan seats. :) I want to be familiar with it, and going and changing a whole lot of things can change how it handles, performs, holds up to abuse, etc.

--Rob (collecting spare parts, no thoughts/opinions on what results will be)

remember this?

BWAAAAHAHAHAAA! I was wondering how long til this popped back up :laughing:

I dont think he could have been any more wrong aboout his picks!!!!:eek:

Originally posted by Ramstein
I dont think he could have been any more wrong aboout his picks!!!!:eek: Of course, your pics were perfect... ;)