Guys, I REALLY need your help...blindsided by unforseen axle option!

OK - I'm piece shopping for the zero-compromise Canuck Buggy project, which will be from the ground up.

Only absolutes so far are Ford V8, T-18, some kind of doubler or dual cases, YJ frame base, and 42" Swamps planned.

For axles, i had planned RC60 and 14 bolt. But the Rc60 is impossible to find up here. And 14 bolts aren't a dime a dozen either.

So I came across a guy claiming to have acess to axles from a rolled 2000 F250 Super duty. I beleive these are either d70/D50 or 10.25/D50. 4 wheel discs.

Issues I'm aware of (and possible counter points) are:
2) Wierd metric bolt pattern (who cares as long as all 4 wheels match, surely I can get these stock and Rockstomper lock 'em)
3) shafts that neck down to 1.31" ?? (this sucks)
4) D44 diff in the D50 (this also sounds too much like a compromise)
5) Not sure if the unit bearing hubs are the stuff, or not. Heard both ways. (Dunno???)
7) very limited gear and locker choices, esp. for the 50 (weld 'em both and be done)
8) 3.55 or 3.90 gears, stock (who cares with a doubler in an off-road only truck)
9) Stupid hybrid front axle thing has only balljoints, and they don;t look much bigger than 44 balljoints, and I want full hydro steering!

On the plus side:
1) If it is a D70 - that's very cool
2) Shiny new 4 wheel brakes
3) only asking $720 US the pair


What the fawk am i gonna do????????

Good find, or misleading sidetrack, leading to compromises......


Heeeeeelp!!!

For that kind of money, I'd wheel the snot out of them.

However, I'd bet that those wheels are aluminum.

Avoid the D-50 front. it will be stock for the F-250 Superduty. Unit bearing front axle is not very strong. the bearings are not spaced as far apart so the load they can handle is less than the traditional spindle bearing design.

Hold out for the HP-D60 and the (cough,cough) 14-bolt.


Eric

Originally posted by Mo
For that kind of money, I'd wheel the snot out of them.

However, I'd bet that those wheels are aluminum.

a dana 50 is a ttb axle..

which is basiclaly a "pivoting" 60... I have been thinking about this axle for a special app for a while now..

one thing you can do.. full droop it and weld it together,,, for a "fake" shaved or clearenced diff... then you have to redo camber though..

it could be a 60 if it was a hd december on rig..

the dana 50 was a TTB setup in the old body style, however there is also a dana 50 straight axle used in the f250's and f350 SRW trucks from 99-present. A dana 50 has dana 44 ring & pinion and a dana 44 diff with dana 60 sized outer parts.

find a 2001 or newer front or a F350 dually front and convert it.they are D60's.I don't think the rear is a d70 but probly a sterling 10.?? inch
If you are going all out nuts get a D135 from a F650

i thought the D50's also had 44 sized shafts and u-joints?:barf:

The rear is a Sterling 10.5" axle.

Umm the dana 50 uses dana 60 outers so it has the big u-joint.

Alpo23....ok, I'm pretty sure the front is almost a complete bust then...weaker unit bearings, D44 sized R&P, D60 U-joint but in a shaft that necks to 1.31", and a funky bolt pattern to boot!

So, the question really becomes........Is it a D70 or 10.?? in rear, and is either worth $700 mint condition with discs, esp with funky bolt pattern and crummy gears?

That (cough, cough) 14 bolt does seem mighty fine....even fine enough to stand up to my mighty 400HP Ford 400!! (well, that's the plan - it's actually a thrashed hundred and some HP 351m at the moment!)

CoryL - how sure are you?

Mo - If you're right - that totally kills the idea - I'm a steel guy, and gota be able to homebrew beadlock them...anything else just wouldn;t be me!

Dan O...yes, very fawkin helpful, thanks :flipoff2: The whole freaking point is, in this corner of the planet, you can't just "find" whatever you want....das the whole point my man !:rolleyes:

Wasnt somebody here using front and rear D135's ?

D50 has the bigger D60 type joints and outers, but like billa vista said a LOOONG time ago, the axles neck down to fit the D44 sized pumpkin, which is a major weak point. i would argue even weaker than a straight D44 sized axle because the neck down focuses stress right there. bill if you are truly building a no-compromise rig, dont compromise. hold out for the axles you want.

oh yeah, i forgot the rear should be sterling, 99.9% sure. its easy to tell though, a D70 looks like a D60, but the sterling has a big honking sideways oval kinda shape to it. ehh kinda. how to describe a sterling by looks?? well its completly different from a D70 and those are the only choices for late model fords.

why not buy the axles you want from somebody on this board and have them shipped?

definatly pass on the d50..................junk

price is high but
You might make a offer on the front for
the outer pieces that you could use if
you found a core dana 60.

hey you newfy over here in alberta 14bolts are easy to find and 60's arent that rare either why dont you hook up with someone over here and get some shipped over.:flipoff2:

Billa Vista,

I would pass on the Sterling, not to many choices for gears, and that front is just to questionable.

If ya need i can locate a set down here in Washington. There is a guy that gets the military rigs off Ft. Lewis and sells the 60 front, 14 bolts detroited rear at a reasonable price and they usually have 4.56 gears.

Fleckster

The 10.5 Sterling is a very strong axle. Some argue its the same as a Dana70 (and say the same about the earlier 10.25 in '97down trucks). It has similar 35 spline shafts and the 10.5" ring.

No, theres not much for gear ratios, although there are some locker choices. Last I remember, 4.56 was the lowest gear for it. If thats low enough for your "No compromise" rig, I'd say go for it. otherwise you'll have to keep looking.

Definately stay away from that Dana50 front. It is pure junk.

Seriously.

You want a 14 bolt.

I will bring you one.

Charly

Hey Charly,

How's the supply of HP60s in Maine? I'm looking for 2, and will drive there to get them!

Chad (thinking of coming down sometime this summer anyway, if I can figure out how to squeeze 4 swampers into my jeep while I drive down on my street tires .......)

Well, I've been looking myself, I'll let you know when I find three of them. :D


And yes, PLEASE come down (actually, up and over)....I will be coming your way too.

We have another event tentatively scheduled for 7/19-21. And another in late Sept.

Charly

Originally posted by BillaVista
Alpo23....ok, I'm pretty sure the front is almost a complete bust then...weaker unit bearings, D44 sized R&P, D60 U-joint but in a shaft that necks to 1.31", and a funky bolt pattern to boot!

So, the question really becomes........Is it a D70 or 10.?? in rear, and is either worth $700 mint condition with discs, esp with funky bolt pattern and crummy gears?

That (cough, cough) 14 bolt does seem mighty fine....even fine enough to stand up to my mighty 400HP Ford 400!! (well, that's the plan - it's actually a thrashed hundred and some HP 351m at the moment!)



The rear will be a Sterling 10.5" The F-450 Superduty will have a D-80. The D-60/70 rear was still used on the Econoline vans but not the Pick-ups. The F-350 dually might have the D-80 also, but not sure.

Anyway the F-250 that you're considering will not be a D-70 in anycase.

Good luck axle hunting, sometimes I think a bloodhound is what's needed when looking for the rare and elusive HP D-60 :D

Eric

my 02 F250 has a D60 front and Sterling rear...don't know if that helps at all...and like the other guys said, the D50 uses the 60 outers but the necked down shafts suck.

-Steve

If you pick up those axles, make sure and stop on the way home to pick up some turd polish. :D

I can understand the reverse 60 being hard to find, but is it really that hard to find a 3/4 or 1 ton 70's/80's Chevy (even a 2wd) up there for a rear end? I've never paid over $100 for one here, and one of the yards is like $60 or $70 for them.

Pete

Originally posted by BillaVista
3) shafts that neck down to 1.31" ?? (this sucks)


And why does this suck? Would you prefer axle that did not neck down? The necking down is very important for splined axles. If you don't neck down the shaft you actualy weaken it. A spline is a perfect place for stress cracks to be introduced into the metal shaft. If you don't neck down a shaft these cracks will form in the shaft and grow from each load until the shaft breaks. The necking down removes this extra material so cracks cannot form. Also the material removed from the shaft in the necking down does not add any strength to the shaft. It's just extra weight. So don't downplay necked down shafts.

Originally posted by Charly
Well, I've been looking myself, I'll let you know when I find three of them. :D


And yes, PLEASE come down (actually, up and over)....I will be coming your way too.

We have another event tentatively scheduled for 7/19-21. And another in late Sept.

Charly

Yeah, sure, if I find a bunch I'll let you know too!! :)

July 19/21 might be doable for me ....... I would want to wait until after I have my hp44 in, as well as some other stuff I'm in the middle of, but that time frame might be alright. I'll let you know closer to the actual date.

Chad

And why does this suck? Would you prefer axle that did not neck down? The necking down is very important for splined axles. If you don't neck down the shaft you actualy weaken it. A spline is a perfect place for stress cracks to be introduced into the metal shaft. If you don't neck down a shaft these cracks will form in the shaft and grow from each load until the shaft breaks. The necking down removes this extra material so cracks cannot form. Also the material removed from the shaft in the necking down does not add any strength to the shaft. It's just extra weight. So don't downplay necked down shafts.

huh? the oem's neck down a factory shaft specifically to weaken it incase the diff seizes at highway speeds, if you look at aftermarket shafts you will find they do not usually neck down. I have seen picks of the dana50 shafts, look a lot like a 60 untill you get to the inner and then they neck down to a dana44 size. maybe a bit stronger than a 44 but not even close to a 35 spline 60.

You fawkers are great !!

I love ya all...thanks for keeping me outta turd city....again :D

Fleckster....that sounds a nice package for the right person, but I need the drivers drop 60. Military 14 with Detroit would be cool though.

Pcorssmit....let me give an example. the 79 F250 I dragged home, the rear axle u-bolt plates were LITERALLY completely eaten away...nothing left but a few paper thing scabs of rust.......and the rest of the truck was junk :eek:

Salt ocean air in summer, and heavily salted winter roads, plus the dumbest junkyards on the planet do not a happy scrounging experience make :mad:

Alpo...1st class tech...cheers

camo.....you must be pissing yourself...a neckdown argument pops up wherever I go....but I'm not touching this one :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Weasel


And why does this suck? Would you prefer axle that did not neck down? The necking down is very important for splined axles. If you don't neck down the shaft you actualy weaken it. A spline is a perfect place for stress cracks to be introduced into the metal shaft. If you don't neck down a shaft these cracks will form in the shaft and grow from each load until the shaft breaks. The necking down removes this extra material so cracks cannot form. Also the material removed from the shaft in the necking down does not add any strength to the shaft. It's just extra weight. So don't downplay necked down shafts.


uh????....lets see in this corner we have an axle shaft that is 1.5 inches in diamter until it necks down to 1.31 inch with 30 splines(dana 50) at the carrier or an axle shaft that is 35 spline and 1.5 inches diameter(dana 60) at the carrier that tapers upto 1.71 inches in diameter along the shaft....damn I guess we are all missing something here...you haven't won a darwin award in the past have you?:D

To throw another wrench into your works..

How about a 40-spline Ford 9-inch rear?

Originally posted by onetonwillysands10



uh????....lets see in this corner we have an axle shaft that is 1.5 inches in diamter until it necks down to 1.31 inch with 30 splines(dana 50) at the carrier or an axle shaft that is 35 spline and 1.5 inches diameter(dana 60) at the carrier that tapers upto 1.71 inches in diameter along the shaft....damn I guess we are all missing something here...you haven't won a darwin award in the past have you?:D

Ok so :flipoff2: fawker! I thought they were talking about something else. If I was wrong you still learned why they neck down axle shafts. So :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: