ok.. I've got a friend with a TJ. She is interested in adding the front hoop to her stock cage. So here is the debate...

1) The strength of a through the dash cage that bolts to the side of the body? Kinda like this one: http://www.rockhard4x4parts.com/

2) In reference to the above website... all of their spreader bars bolt on with a clamp around the cage.

soo... I don't know the answer.. I don't have the experience. My gut feeling tells me.. nothing beats a regular 6 point cage. (e.g. not the through the dash, bolt to the firewall variety)

Also #2, I question the strength of the bolt together method. I don't see how that clamp could be as strong as a weld. (or stronger for that matter)

what do you guys think?

Right now I am telling her a front hoop that goes down in front of the dash is probably the best idea. with 2-4 spreader bars to start with. if she wants more, it can be added to the cage later or at the same time. but all weld on.

I have a TJ and I am looking for a good role cage system as well, I have looked into the roll cage that you mentioned, and it seems to be a good system to me if you get the model that attaches to the frame. I would say that any role cage should attach to the frame or I won't be happy... I am interested to see what anyone else thinks...Is anyone running one of those?

Well... 2 things....

1) the bottom half of the leg kit they sell... looks like it uses flat bar or similar to bolt the two halves together. Don't know why.. but that kind of bothers me.

2) bolt to the frame. I look at it like this. You have 2 basic kinds of rolls in a regular trail rig. the standard flop, etc. a cage bolted to the body with maybe a peice of steel plate on the bottom side of the body to sandwhich the body where the cage mounts is pretty strong. I have seen a couple high speed rolls with cages attached in this fashion... and each time.. the rig drove away fine.. body damage yes.. but the cage didn't tear away from the body. (high speed meaning 35-50mph roll)

The second type of roll... the 200 foot multi roll none of us ever want. In this case... I would rather have a full cage that my seats and 5point harness bolts too. and NOT bolted to teh frame. theory is... as I go down teh ravine... my jeep disinigrates but the cage and me hold up (ok.. no matter what.. I'm gonna be screwed up personally after that, but hopefully alive). so as I am falling the mass around me gets smaller. The less mass going down the hill side with me... the less of an impact it will be to me in the rig.

(Travis puts on flame suit for #2)

The best cage is a welded cage. The bolt on kits are for the average person that dosn't have a welder or chopsaw at home. It's a great idea for the money. My shop welds everything and we go through the dash. I have seen some of the kits that go in front of the dash and they get in the way. We usually add to the factory cage. Two down bars thru dash ( you will lose the heater/AC vents) One bar straight across from side to side and as many spreader bars as you like. It's easy and fairly affordable. Going to the frame is always better than plates but each person wheels diffrent and most won't need to go to the frame.

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
The best cage is a welded cage. The bolt on kits are for the average person that dosn't have a welder or chopsaw at home. It's a great idea for the money. My shop welds everything and we go through the dash. I have seen some of the kits that go in front of the dash and they get in the way. We usually add to the factory cage. Two down bars thru dash ( you will lose the heater/AC vents) One bar straight across from side to side and as many spreader bars as you like. It's easy and fairly affordable. Going to the frame is always better than plates but each person wheels diffrent and most won't need to go to the frame. i agree but one thing..... i did not loose my vents, if properly placed you CAN keep em

Isn't it possible to weld the bolt on roll cage to the frame? If not, where is the cheapest place to buy a cage that can be welded to the frame?

I've seen 3 styles of front hoops

1) in front of the dash like hanson's www.hansonenterprise.com

http://www.hansonenterprise.com/new/images/tjcage_frntkit.jpg

2) through the dash like tennesseeoffroad

http://www.tennesseeoffroad.com/catalog/images/tor_tjcage8.jpg

3) bolts to the side of the like OR fab's.

http://www.orfab.com/images/SpcageWdown.jpg


These are just examples and I think each styles has several vendors, along with the custom shops like roggy enterprises that should be able to do whatever you want.

my take is through the dash and in front of the dash to the floor would be equally strong and if tied into the frame would again be equally as strong.

style 3 seems like it should be weaker, but if tied into the floor and then to the frame? that part of TJ tub is reinforced alot. I still think it would be weaker than the others.

Other things I've noticed.

- footwell space
- entry exit ease
- vision

I think style 3 wins for footwell space and for entry exit ease. As far as vision, thats my one complaint of the through the dash styles is they block abit of your forward vision for normal driving. I think the in front of the dash does good in this regard.

So, I'm looking at this too, and need to get on it. I haven't decided which way to go.

- Dan

Originally posted by AKJeepGirl
Isn't it possible to weld the bolt on roll cage to the frame? If not, where is the cheapest place to buy a cage that can be welded to the frame?

IMO... you DONT want your cage welded to the frame. if your set on that.. the best way is to weld an out rigger on tot he frame and bolt the cage through a bushing and body (similar to a body mount) to the outrigger.

I could not make up my mind. So, I stole an idea from the RR Defender 90. I just built a front exo, so it now protects my windshield and ties into the inside cage. And no, I never put my top down, I only bought a soft-top because they look better:D ! I could care less about putting it down, but if I wanted to it would take about 10 minutes to unbolt the cage. I will add more to it later, I'm definently not done yet.

I recently put in a through the dash cage from TOR. I didn't lose any usable foot space and the visibilty loss was minimal - and counteredthe minimal loss by the fact that I will generally wheel without the windshield on hard trails now. I had to put in flexible vent tubing, but got to keep my dash vents. I looked at all of the options and this seemed to be the best combo of price/function.

Does that 3rd pic have a cage that bolts to the plastic dash:eek:

How about Gossamer's cage:
http://www.extremecj.com/ejs2002/avscamdrside.jpg

With the size of that rig and the bends at teh bottom and the front points bolted to the body....
Seems like a decent roll would squish it

Broncorob, the third picture you are refering to does not bolt to the plactic dash. It bolts to the firewall, which seems to be the strongest part on a TJ.

Having rolled my TJ twice on a piece of junk, 'custom' .090 wall thru the dash cage, I can tell you for certain that the most important aspect is the materials. In both rolls, the factory .120 wall main hoop did fine, but the .090 junk that was installed 'custom' bent and failed.

I now have a completely custom, .120 wall cage designed and installed by a desert racer. Every tube is gussetted and triangulated. I think the jeep will fail before this cage will.

My point? Materials matter and the piece of mind afforded by a 'custom' cage can be a lie. If you're spending money for your safety, a bolt in cage is, in my opinion, not worth its cost in a barrell roll. Spend a few dollars more and get the real thing.

Sethhttp://offroadmarketing.com/archive/New%20buildup/tdsrollrecovery/frontcage.jpg

http://offroadmarketing.com/archive/New%20buildup/tdsrollrecovery/rearcornercage.jpg

http://offroadmarketing.com/archive/New%20buildup/tdsrollrecovery/topcage.jpg

Essentially Off Road her ein TN has been doing through-the-dash TJ cages longer than just about anyone else I know of....

Check out some of the work they do, looks good to me :)

http://www.essentiallyoffroad.com/Cages%20TJ.htm

Originally posted by AKJeepGirl
I would say that any role cage should attach to the frame or I won't be happy... I am interested to see what anyone else thinks...Is anyone running one of those?

I'm with Travis.

My cage bolts to the body, but my racing seats and 5pt harness are attached to the 'cage.

If the 'cage comes loose, I'm still inside of it (well, there are those legs...)

I made the decision to bolt my 'cage in after the mess I made cutting it out of the donor rig (welded to the frame).. what a mess.

http://walnut.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/disassembly/image11sm.jpg

(See the triangular frame-side body mounting location - the one with the big hole cut in it where the 'cage used to be?)

For those of you with a TennOR or Essentially OR cage (Through Dash) What is so secret about their vent relocations stuff that they won't tell you about? I'm supposed to build a cage for a TJ guy this summer and he could get any one to sell him just the vent part or explain WTF it was...Is there a way to do it our selves?

Originally posted by Scout Dude
For those of you with a TennOR or Essentially OR cage (Through Dash) What is so secret about their vent relocations stuff that they won't tell you about? I'm supposed to build a cage for a TJ guy this summer and he could get any one to sell him just the vent part or explain WTF it was...Is there a way to do it our selves?

Well, you have to understand that when a company comes up with somethign to sell - telling everyone how to do it on their own would be shooting themselves in the foot, now wouldn't it ;)

I was at EOR the night they were doing the very first through the dash cage, and was ehlping figure out how to make the dash and vent stuff work...

But you can do it yourself - and if you can handle building a cage and installing it, just a few minutes with the dash off and looking at what is behind there you should be able to make afew trips to the auto parts store or Home Depot and get what you need to fix it right up ;)

Originally posted by DRM


Well, you have to understand that when a company comes up with somethign to sell - telling everyone how to do it on their own would be shooting themselves in the foot, now wouldn't it ;)

I was at EOR the night they were doing the very first through the dash cage, and was ehlping figure out how to make the dash and vent stuff work...

But you can do it yourself - and if you can handle building a cage and installing it, just a few minutes with the dash off and looking at what is behind there you should be able to make afew trips to the auto parts store or Home Depot and get what you need to fix it right up ;)

Cool, the way that they made it sound (According to my buddy) was that they included new vents that attach to the dash, not new flexible hose or something...we'll get it figured out...thx

i also ran the cage through the dash and threw out all the venting shit. The end result allows me to still drop the windshield (as the $10 snorkel is not in the way:flipoff2: ) and living in Canada with a soft top year round, the missing vents still defrost and heat the inside real good. In my small newbie opinion:D, i would not lose sleep over the venting loss.http://www.fourwheelstampeders.ca/albums/album13/aac.sized.jpg

Originally posted by Scout Dude


Cool, the way that they made it sound (According to my buddy) was that they included new vents that attach to the dash, not new flexible hose or something...we'll get it figured out...thx

Let's just say that with a little work and ingenuity - you can re-route the vents to work just fine :cool2:

But heck - EOR's cage price is real resonable, considering they have it all figured out for you and it comes with the cage ;)

Originally posted by spinalguy
The end result allows me to still drop the windshield (as the $10 snorkel is not in the way:flipoff2: )

http://www.fourwheelstampeders.ca/albums/album13/aac.sized.jpg



How do you open your hood?

Originally posted by twaldher
ok.. I've got a friend with a TJ. She is interested in adding the front hoop to her stock cage. So here is the debate...

1) The strength of a through the dash cage that bolts to the side of the body? Kinda like this one: http://www.rockhard4x4parts.com/

2) In reference to the above website... all of their spreader bars bolt on with a clamp around the cage.

soo... I don't know the answer.. I don't have the experience. My gut feeling tells me.. nothing beats a regular 6 point cage. (e.g. not the through the dash, bolt to the firewall variety)

Also #2, I question the strength of the bolt together method. I don't see how that clamp could be as strong as a weld. (or stronger for that matter)

what do you guys think?

Right now I am telling her a front hoop that goes down in front of the dash is probably the best idea. with 2-4 spreader bars to start with. if she wants more, it can be added to the cage later or at the same time. but all weld on.

Hey Travis, if your friend is in the Seattle area she should check out what our buddies up north did with my cage...better than any bolt-in or weld-in kit available (in my unhumble opinion)

How do you open your hood?
TJ FREAK...The 90 deg ABS pipe just slides off and than the hood opens (of course the windshield is back up:rolleyes: )

Originally posted by 333J


Hey Travis, if your friend is in the Seattle area she should check out what our buddies up north did with my cage...better than any bolt-in or weld-in kit available (in my unhumble opinion)

I was going to get a hold of them.......... My only concern for her.... well.. those guys have a hard time stopping once you get the started bending tube. LOL I mean.. next thing you know.. the coilovers are sticking through your hood. ;)

Originally posted by CHOKEu
I could not make up my mind. So, I stole an idea from the RR Defender 90. I just built a front exo, so it now protects my windshield and ties into the inside cage. And no, I never put my top down, I only bought a soft-top because they look better:D ! I could care less about putting it down, but if I wanted to it would take about 10 minutes to unbolt the cage. I will add more to it later, I'm definently not done yet.


I see you got your long arm on...

Sorry I missed ya on sunday you bastard.

I helped a buddy put a cage in his TJ from Essentially Off-road.
Real nice kit to work with, that is after you take out the damn thirty some screws in the dash.
Good complete kit.

I didn't have to take the dash off or get creative. drop the windshield, score the plastic in the corner with a knife, bend it back and forth til it breaks off, cut into the body seam below it with a sawzall in 2 places, bend it out of the way, grab the diag. port under the dash and bend it down a little, and stick the tube straight through. The tube fits straight through.

got any pics of how that one came out?

hold on let me get the digicam

1

2

3

4

Ok.... trying to summarize here:

1.75" .120 wall minimum dia/thickness

the standard 6 point cage is the best. Meanining the front hoop is one single piece of tube, wether it goes through the dash or not.

The kits that bolt to the firewall are "ok", the add-on piece some companies sell that make it go down to the bottom, still only makes them "ok". the only benifit you really get from them is putting your windshield down. (if I read what you guys said right)

Originally posted by WheelingPiazza



I see you got your long arm on...

Sorry I missed ya on sunday you bastard.

Ya, Fawer!

I talked with your wife for like an hour... The Pumpkin and the Cruzah are looking good!

:D :D The Atlas is in also and I got me a Dynatrac 60 on the way!!!:D

I'll cruise by another time.

Originally posted by CHOKEu



:D :D The Atlas is in also and I got me a Dynatrac 60 on the way!!!:D


bling bling

Originally posted by DRM


Well, you have to understand that when a company comes up with somethign to sell - telling everyone how to do it on their own would be shooting themselves in the foot, now wouldn't it ;)

I was at EOR the night they were doing the very first through the dash cage, and was ehlping figure out how to make the dash and vent stuff work...

But you can do it yourself - and if you can handle building a cage and installing it, just a few minutes with the dash off and looking at what is behind there you should be able to make afew trips to the auto parts store or Home Depot and get what you need to fix it right up ;)
i called them before they did the first one.... they said the guy backed out, so i decided to do it here locally, its not that tuff to keep your vents and such

Originally posted by watts
I didn't have to take the dash off or get creative. drop the windshield, score the plastic in the corner with a knife, bend it back and forth til it breaks off, cut into the body seam below it with a sawzall in 2 places, bend it out of the way, grab the diag. port under the dash and bend it down a little, and stick the tube straight through. The tube fits straight through.



exactly

Originally posted by TJoop


bling bling

AHHH,Man... That's fawked up:( I can't help it Laura is a bling-bling!

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: